AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

Anyone thinking of making a Mega-Ghorgant Warstomper?  If the mercenary versions count as the multiple models for objectives, I'm thinking might be pretty good for a BoC army.  That jump up n down -1 to hit debuff coupled with the Dirgehorn spell could be super annoying; besides it being a big killy monster.  And we can provide some cheapo huge screens for it whilst it strikes behind the little beasts.

Or would 3 regular Ghorgons be better for the points?  Kinda doesn't seem like they'd better, though they can ambush in the Darkwalkers.

[Popisdead]

11 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I was running them out of the blades of khorne allegiance. The buffs are beautiful on bullgors. If you go far back enough in the blades of Khorne thread I have battle reports and lists for my khorne allegiance army.

Positives: 1 - Slaughter priests can cast their prayers onto the beast men. +1 hit, +1 save, ... the others don't really do much, but ignore battleshock is one.                   2 - +1 attack from bloodsecrator and +1 attack from wrathmongers available. Alas no other heroes buff us. The +2 attacks from the skulltakers mortal legion (or whatever they're called) is likewise good on a doombull.               3 - Blood tithe is amazing. Pile in during hero phase, free move, charge, make all your units pile in and attack when they die. Now imagine doing that stuff during either player's hero phase. Bonkers. I won so many games because of blood tithes. You can also summon with them too, but I rarely did that.                 4 - All these stack with the battalion ability. Re-roll hits of 1 if with friends, and once per game re-roll wounds. Used properly, you can rip out an opponent's heart with that. (I know, I've done it!) This can make one unit of bulls capable of killing damn near anything. 3 bulls with these buffs wiped 6 kurnoth hunters before. All stacked it's: 3+ re rolling 1s, 3+ re-roll all, -2, 3D. You could even add +1 to wound if you want to waste a command point on the doombull.            5 - the MSU we like, khorne loves too. We use many similar tactics. The battalion also likes MSU.

Negatives: 1 - No rend modifiers. Whatever is on the scroll is what you get.              2 - Reliance on components. A 4+ to get that lovely prayer off. You can re-roll it if you're in range of the altar, but it's a big roll. You have to keep wholly in range of your attack buffers who are slower than us. (they have to run to keep up) as well as other units from the battalion.             3 - No ancient rules and spawn sillyness. Their attacks do not stack. +2 is your max. More consistent, but somewhat limiting. I personally play gavespawn as though it's been updated and don't stack more than 1 attack per unit, so it's automatically better for me. Making spawn when you die is also just fun.                4 - Battline is awkward. You either use gors (and discover the joy of a max buffed gor squad merking an unsuspecting hero) or you up your drops even further with khorne battleline. This can be mitigated by using a khorne mortal battalion to get most of your support pieces, but then you're paying for another battalion.           5 - Ungors and other support pieces are allies.  Spell casting is basically non-existent and there is only the artifact tied to the faction to put on your beasts heroes.              6 - No ambush. The psychological impact of the threat is massive.

I'd rate them as overall better at getting the best out of your bullgors, but less so on our faster units. I liked to take 2 allied ungor raider units to double layer my chaff. Gavespawn only has CP attacks, the herdstone, and ambushing. Khorne will kill better over the course of the entire game vs the spike damage of dumping all CP into + attacks. Can it still work? Absolutely. Do I think it's better? No, not really. I love my beasts of khorne, I'm mostly just trying to switch things up a bit after using them for so long. Still fun though.

 

Mmmmm k i'll go back and search through it.  Much thanks.  +1 to hit from Slaughterpriests is HUGE.  I love Warherd and hate how badly they dice spike.  It's like 6th edition all over again.  "I get to roll 5 dice,.. oh I missed with them all,.. and the goblins didn't and won and I ran away,.. lame"

How much of a difference is there between the last and most recent BoK codex?  I got a free copy of the previous Blades of Khorne Battletome.  Problem is I have a Slaanesh army not a Khorne one so nothing to summon unless I can use the boosts in a different way.

 

7 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

 Despite being a hardened Beastmen player this week is the first time I've bothered reading the scrolls for Tzaangors. The Tzeentch Beastmen arn't proper Beastmen to me - they're just a bit too 'clean'.

My feelings on this is they have no Slaangor....  Also I feel Pestigor and Khorngor would sell if GW figured out how to properly support BoC   I'm not much a fan of them either but I've never been a fan of BoC.  

 

I have a thought meandering in the back of my head regarding Mega-gargants.  Converting a massive Kholek and counting him as  a Mega-gargant.  

[Popisdead]

6 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Or would 3 regular Ghorgons be better for the points?  Kinda doesn't seem like they'd better, though they can ambush in the Darkwalkers.

rule of cool 3 ghorgons would be rad to see.  I've run 2/2 Ghorgons and Cygors but never max 4.  They are swingy but man,.. if you can connect boy howdy, that's hurt. 

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

rule of cool 3 ghorgons would be rad to see.  I've run 2/2 Ghorgons and Cygors but never max 4.  They are swingy but man,.. if you can connect boy howdy, that's hurt. 

Maybe I'll make something where 4 of them can come together to make a a Voltron style Mega-Ghorgant.  Or a beast-tech mega-walker piloted by a Cygor?

[TheArborealWalrus]

24 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Maybe I'll make something where 4 of them can come together to make a a Voltron style Mega-Ghorgant.  Or a beast-tech mega-walker piloted by a Cygor?

I love it, but my brain hurts even thinking about it. Truly an idea blessed by Morghur! 

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

rule of cool 3 ghorgons would be rad to see.  I've run 2/2 Ghorgons and Cygors but never max 4.  They are swingy but man,.. if you can connect boy howdy, that's hurt. 

I like the idea of making a mega ghorgon or a mega shaggoth as the warstomper.  I've only got 1 of each so I haven't tried 4 ghorgons/cygors. I think it'd be fun though. 

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

How much of a difference is there between the last and most recent BoK codex?  I got a free copy of the previous Blades of Khorne Battletome.  Problem is I have a Slaanesh army not a Khorne one so nothing to summon unless I can use the boosts in a different way.

Enough to be an annoyance. The artifacts aren't the same at all (you'll have a minimum of 2), there are slight differences on wording for blood tithe and prayers.  The slaughterhosts and battalions are only in the latest book plus some significant warscroll changes. There's enough that you couldn't run it for a tournament, but it combined with 1d4 chan should let you practice with mates. They'd probably be your best guide until you can get the book or are willing to wait for Khorne's next update.              Blood tithe either summons or activates abilities. Summoning is in no way essential. (except in certain builds) Over the years I've only summoned like a dozen times and it's only won me a game ... twice I think. I recommend flesh hounds for their unbind and re-roll charges. Maybe a hero if you run out on those missions that require them.    - - -   I think if you click on a profile and then hit "view activity" it should be easier to find the relevant posts.

Cheers, for Morghur!

Edited October 8, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Myrdin]

Personally I am a huge fan of any new Beastmen types.

And while God-Gors are not exactly "new" per say, I always kept my hopes to see this Great 4 affiliated Bestigors make a comeback.

And yet, Khorne came and went... no Khorngors. Slaanesh came and went and no Slaangors....

So yeah, I dont hold much hope to ever see them. I am grateful for Tzaangors, since its finally something else then cows, goats and horses. And I also like Tzeentch stuff so there`s that.

Honestly I abhor the fact that the points costs must be unified through out the Alliegances. Why cant Tzaangors be 200 in DoT book and 160 in our book where the synergy is MUCH less volatile than in their native battle tome ? (140 was too low, 200 is too much. Same with Skyfires. At worst they both should be at 180, although I could see Enlightened at 160 and Skyfires at 180). Its just stupid and it really killed some of the comps we had going on due to the massive points inflation.

I would like for Harpies to make a return. Yes we have super fast Centigors but having fly does help a lot. They could use same rules like those Warcry Devils for all I care.

All in all, I just hope when the new edition comes and Tomes are reworked again, we wont be the first. This happened a lot in WFB and now in AoS as well and our army always suffers from it. For once let us come later once the new power shift has settled and let us ride the wave of solid, engaging and fun, instead of mediocre and subpar every single time.

[Ganigumo]

4 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Personally I am a huge fan of any new Beastmen types.

And while God-Gors are not exactly "new" per say, I always kept my hopes to see this Great 4 affiliated Bestigors make a comeback.

And yet, Khorne came and went... no Khorngors. Slaanesh came and went and no Slaangors....

So yeah, I dont hold much hope to ever see them. I am grateful for Tzaangors, since its finally something else then cows, goats and horses. And I also like Tzeentch stuff so there`s that.

Honestly I abhor the fact that the points costs must be unified through out the Alliegances. Why cant Tzaangors be 200 in DoT book and 160 in our book where the synergy is MUCH less volatile than in their native battle tome ? (140 was too low, 200 is too much. Same with Skyfires. At worst they both should be at 180, although I could see Enlightened at 160 and Skyfires at 180). Its just stupid and it really killed some of the comps we had going on due to the massive points inflation.

I would like for Harpies to make a return. Yes we have super fast Centigors but having fly does help a lot. They could use same rules like those Warcry Devils for all I care.

All in all, I just hope when the new edition comes and Tomes are reworked again, we wont be the first. This happened a lot in WFB and now in AoS as well and our army always suffers from it. For once let us come later once the new power shift has settled and let us ride the wave of solid, engaging and fun, instead of mediocre and subpar every single time.

Theres a confimed Slaangor coming in the mortal slaanesh underworlds warband, so there's a chance they could be part of the eventual mortal slaanesh release.


Also Tzaangors are still overcosted in the DoT book, and skyfires have direct competition with flamers (which they lose pretty handily). The biggest issue with Tzaangors imo is that they NEED to be 9+ models to be worth their points, and they're pretty expensive when you need to take 20 for them to be useful. 10 man units are basically worthless unless you can prevent them from taking any casualties before fighting.

[Myrdin]

4 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

snip.... Baaaah!

Well that is some interesting news. Thanks for sharing.  A Slaangor.... hoped, but never believed I`d see the day this happens.

Now if only there would be a full unit > possibly a multi kit ala Engl/Skyfire follow up shortly after (and have the BoC keyword and be also added for us outright as an option). Possibly one Slaangor hero. Tzaangor is a fast tzaan aura buff caster, so the Slaangor hero, if it would happen could be like a fast nimble duelist great at taking down big ugly stuff (multi wound MW attacks on specific rolls for example)

[El Antiguo Guardián]

I made a video-analysis of the bird-list so I hope you like it.

 

 

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, El Antiguo Guardián said:

Lot of angry chicken noises

16 Cockatrice ?! Hahaha ! That sounds amazing

I wish we could use Raptorix with our keyword, so you could use them instead of those ungors and go full Angry chicken swarm XD

I love this so much. I need to test something like this just for the heck of it!

Edited October 12, 2020 by Myrdin

[Popisdead]

On 10/12/2020 at 5:56 AM, Myrdin said:

16 Cockatrice ?! Hahaha ! That sounds amazing

I had a screen shot.  Guy had 16 Finecast unpainted/unprimed Cockatrices.  And placed like 5th or 6th.  

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 10/12/2020 at 4:50 AM, El Antiguo Guardián said:

the bird-list

On 10/12/2020 at 5:56 AM, Myrdin said:

16 Cockatrice ?! Hahaha ! That sounds amazing

 

I love the idea! I was going to proxy it for shiggles until I realized that my opponents likely would not have much fun with it beyond seeing 16 "cocatrice" on the field.  On average (assuming they're all in range) 8d6 mortal wounds as the birds try to play keep away? Sounds like Tzeentch shooting to me. I still think it's hilarious, but won't be trying it like I thought to do. That being said, go for it! 

On 10/9/2020 at 7:57 AM, Ganigumo said:

Theres a confimed Slaangor coming in the mortal slaanesh underworlds warband,

That's pretty cool. I'd like it if they did a more full release of slaanesh beastmen, but I think we're  going to get that chaos dwarf/elf treatment. GW will point and say "See! They exist!" and that will be the end of it. Admittedly I'm disillusioned about Beasts getting any toys. They don't love us anymore! *goat sobbing* When the Morathi book comes out I want there to be cool new stuff beyond the 2 heroes, but I think if there were they'd come in the box set like with that nurgle vs stormcast box. That pessimism being said, Please give slaanesh based Tzaangor enlightened equivalent!

On a separate note, that slaangor is a long boi! He looks like he's 2 times the height of the others if he wasn't crouching. Could just be the artwork, could just be tall, oorrrr  ... could be slaanesh minotaur, err excuse me, slaanesh bullgor. Still, cool stuff.

For Morghur!

[Ganigumo]

33 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I love the idea! I was going to proxy it for shiggles until I realized that my opponents likely would not have much fun with it beyond seeing 16 "cocatrice" on the field.  On average (assuming they're all in range) 8d6 mortal wounds as the birds try to play keep away? Sounds like Tzeentch shooting to me. I still think it's hilarious, but won't be trying it like I thought to do. That being said, go for it! 

That's pretty cool. I'd like it if they did a more full release of slaanesh beastmen, but I think we're  going to get that chaos dwarf/elf treatment. GW will point and say "See! They exist!" and that will be the end of it. Admittedly I'm disillusioned about Beasts getting any toys. They don't love us anymore! *goat sobbing* When the Morathi book comes out I want there to be cool new stuff beyond the 2 heroes, but I think if there were they'd come in the box set like with that nurgle vs stormcast box. That pessimism being said, Please give slaanesh based Tzaangor enlightened equivalent!

On a separate note, that slaangor is a long boi! He looks like he's 2 times the height of the others if he wasn't crouching. Could just be the artwork, could just be tall, oorrrr  ... could be slaanesh minotaur, err excuse me, slaanesh bullgor. Still, cool stuff.

For Morghur!

I suspect Slaanesh mortals will be like the Tzeentch mortal release, which was Kairic Acolytes, Tzaangors, Enlightened/Skyfires, and some characters.
So it will probably be slaangors, some marauder equivalent unit, and one or two more elite kits, either better/mounted slaangors and/or a chaos warrior equivalent (although slaangors might fit that slot anyways) alongside a few characters.

Makes me think that *MAYBE* khorne could get khornegors in shattered realms too? Although I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 10/12/2020 at 2:56 PM, Myrdin said:

16 Cockatrice ?! Hahaha ! That sounds amazing

I wish we could use Raptorix with our keyword, so you could use them instead of those ungors and go full Angry chicken swarm XD

I love this so much. I need to test something like this just for the heck of it!

That would be amazing. An army full of raptorix and cockatrices, with some kind of bird character...

[Popisdead]

On 10/14/2020 at 10:16 AM, TheArborealWalrus said:

On a separate note, that slaangor is a long boi! He looks like he's 2 times the height of the others if he wasn't crouching. Could just be the artwork, could just be tall, oorrrr  ... could be slaanesh minotaur, err excuse me, slaanesh bullgor. Still, cool stuff.

I have an old 1980s Slaanesh Minotaur and he looks similar to this art.

[Myrdin]

On 10/15/2020 at 8:47 PM, Popisdead said:

I have an old 1980s Slaanesh Minotaur and he looks similar to this art.

Care to share a pic with us Pop ?

[Lior'Lec]

     Hey guys, on my way home earlier this week I stopped at a random game store and found a box of Khornegors and Pestigors. I bought them partially on impulse and partly to use in dungeon crawl board games (well, one of each anyway). I opened both boxes this evening to check them out, and while the sculpts are lovely I was a little disappointed to realize they’re metal sculpts from early 2000’s (I’m worried about scale creep).
     I’ve already seen the new Slaangor model in the preview (why I decided to check these sculpts) but how do these models hold up against the new Gor models? Particularly in scale/size? Would they look out of place size wise next to newer models, and would I be better off just grabbing a box of Gors and Bestigors to kitbash into the models I want (maybe just paint these up for my own enjoyment)? I’m not a BoC player so don’t have any models I can use for reference here (tried google but came up empty handed) so if anyone has some of these older models and they could give a comparison photo I’d greatly appreciate it.

[AronQ_]

 Hello everyone! What can you say about Depraved Drove? I wanna start army of beastmen of Slaanesh. Can you share any tips and tactics please. And I have question could I use both artefacts or traits from hedonites and from greatfrays(Allherd, Gavespawn and Darkwalkers?) or not? And look what an awesome miniature of Slaangor in Underworlds Beastgrave!

[TheArborealWalrus]

1 hour ago, Lior'Lec said:

so if anyone has some of these older models and they could give a comparison photo I’d greatly appreciate it

Mostly comparable in size. Fit in pretty well. Bestigor form the core of a lot of peoples' lists, so if you want to start, you're in a decent place. They are also just fun/unique models, so the world is your oyster for choice of path.

Pardon the lack of actually being done on the bestigor. I haven't really used them since the death of the gorapult. *sigh*

1 hour ago, AronQ_ said:

could I use both artefacts or traits from hedonites and from greatfrays

Unfortunately you must choose between them when you pick your allegiance. I'm not familiar with the keyword restrictions of hedonite artifacts, but it's quite possible that your beasts might not be able to use them. (for example DAEMON artifacts can't go with BEASTS OF CHAOS heroes ect) I also dig the new slaangor model too. Might make a good beast hero (or slaanesh hero counting as a beast) Cool stuff. 

For Morghuur!

Edited October 18, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Ganigumo]

10 hours ago, AronQ_ said:

 Hello everyone! What can you say about Depraved Drove? I wanna start army of beastmen of Slaanesh. Can you share any tips and tactics please. And I have question could I use both artefacts or traits from hedonites and from greatfrays(Allherd, Gavespawn and Darkwalkers?) or not? And look what an awesome miniature of Slaangor in Underworlds Beastgrave!

Depraved drove is great in slaanesh allegiance. I'm pretty sure you lose out on lore spells for your shamans, but the artifacts are tied to the subfactions if I recall correctly, so they can be taken by beastmen.

Slaanesh have an allegiance ability that lets all units score 1 extra hit on an unmodified roll of 6 to hit, or 3 extra hits if the unit has 20 or more models. This rule is super strong on big units of ungor and bestigor, but still useful on everything in the army.

[AronQ_]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

but the artifacts are tied to the subfactions if I recall correctly, so they can be taken by beastmen.

So, can I  pick an artefact of Gavespawn and take a trait from hedonite faction? Or I need take similar trait and artefact from one subfaction?

 

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

3 extra hits if the unit has 20 or more models. This rule is super strong on big units of ungor and bestigor, but still useful on everything in the army.

And what about this- if I have 20 bestigors and one model of the unit have 6 to hit, this model will have 3 extra hits?

[Ganigumo]

1 minute ago, AronQ_ said:

So, can I  pick an artefact of Gavespawn and take a trait from hedonite faction? Or I need take similar trait and artefact from one subfaction?

 

And what about this- if I have 20 bestigors and one model of the unit have 6 to hit, this model will have 3 extra hits?

You can't take the beasts of chaos artifacts in hedonites allegiance, but the hedonite artifacts are tied to hedonite subfactions, and not keywords, so they can be taken by beastmen units. By comparison tge artifacts in Tzeentch allegiance are tied to keywords that prevent beasts of chaos units from using them.

 

Also yes, but every model in the unit of 20+ bestigors would get 3 extra hits on an unmodified roll of 6 to hit. (Mathematically this equates to a +3 to hit)

[AronQ_]

12 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Also yes, but every model in the unit of 20+ bestigors would get 3 extra hits on an unmodified roll of 6 to hit. (Mathematically this equates to a +3 to hit)

Where can I find the rule about that? I found only about 6 to hit give 1 extra hit

 

[Sauriv]

21 minutes ago, AronQ_ said:

And what about this- if I have 20 bestigors and one model of the unit have 6 to hit, this model will have 3 extra hits?

On unmodified 6 to hit makes the attack becomes 3 attacks instead of 1. 

And about combining things between books, as a rule of thumb you can't. But BoC has the exception of using some battalions and use another book instead of our own. 

[TheArborealWalrus]

I've got a question  for my fellow beast lords, so the new sons of Behemat army are cool and all but there are 2 rules that I feel might cause us problems. 1: longshanks - they get to walk over anything less than a shaggoth as though it wasn't there. Not a super big deal, just keep models close enough to prevent their big base from fitting.            2: Mightier makes rightier - they count as lots of models (anywhere from 10 to 30 depending on the details). Between these 2 it will be extremely difficult to keep hold of our objectives, even with advanced screening tactics. So here's my question.

How do we take an objective back from a mega gargant? They count as minimum 20 models and they just have to touch the 6 inch zone.  Especially when it's possible for a kraken eater to be at -2 to hit (but more likely -1). Never mind that krakens can move the objectives. It just feels like a tough match up for us. We both live and die by our objective control. Thoughts?

Cheers for any musings,

For Morghur!