AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin]

So I`ve been thinking, Right now, with all the changes and updates etc etc. If I would like to run Beastmen under one of the other 4 God factions via the battalions, which one of them would give me the most buck ?

I seem to remember there were some nerfs here and there due to keywords no longer focusing on the God rather on stuff like "mortal" and "demon".

Is it still viable ? And if yes which God gives me the best synergies with the newly gained keyword from the battalion ?

[Maddpainting]

18 hours ago, cyberhawk94 said:

What do people think of Burning Sigil of Tzeentch for us? Especially in Gavespawn, I feel like it could be a pretty useful spell for us for much cheaper than Taurus

Its way to random, and we can't get it off every turn to stop the randomness.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Maddpainting

[TheArborealWalrus]

7 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Is it still viable ? And if yes which God gives me the best synergies with the newly gained keyword from the battalion ?

Definitely viable. I used Khorne a lot where the + attacks and small number of + to hit can be very deadly.  So prayers, bloodsecrator, and wrathmongers work with boosting beasts. Bulls gain the most benefit, but then you can't have them or ungors as your battleline. That leaves you with gors or something from Khorne's main factions.

I don't remember much in detail about the others, but I don't think any of them are bad. I remember Slaanesh and Tzeentch being the least helpful, but I think the problem is that their normal stuff is mostly better than ours, making you question bringing them in the first place. That's just a guess though. No reason you can't make them work, there's just better units for them outside of their beast flavored meh formations. I remember someone saying that Nurgle is pretty good, but I don't know enough about them to tell you why/how.

Good luck in your experimentation! 

For Morghur!

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:45 PM, cyberhawk94 said:

What do people think of Burning Sigil of Tzeentch for us? Especially in Gavespawn, I feel like it could be a pretty useful spell for us for much cheaper than Taurus

It’s always been an asset for me when I run it in Tzeentch lists with Tzaangors. It’s pretty low priority(id take the command point, the Direhorn and Geminids before it) though.
 

Assuming that you can use the #3-4 result on units that come in on Brayherd ambush or Darkwalker redeploy, all the results are excellent except for number #2.

[Sinfullyvannila]

Phantasmagoria of Fate Great Bray-Shaman.

I decided to take the plunge and try running my Tzaangors as beasts of Chaos. This is my first dedicated BoC unit. He’s not quite finished; I still need to paint the scenic base and hooves, but this was a day’s work and I felt it was good enough for a celebratory post.

[Sam24]

Hello to the BoC community. I've been working through all these pages to get a grip on how my list is going to work or not. I'm almost finished with the reading. But one thing I havent seen the answer to from this is the following:

With the headstone ability in sac d3 models gain that many PCP's... I'm thinking I need a unit of ten ungors to stay within 3" and a hero too. Am I right? Or is it possible to use another more active unit from your army to not only sacrifice from but that can also carry out other function simultaneously. 

I'm a BoC virgin FYI

[Dolomedes]

4 hours ago, Sam24 said:

Hello to the BoC community. I've been working through all these pages to get a grip on how my list is going to work or not. I'm almost finished with the reading. But one thing I havent seen the answer to from this is the following:

With the headstone ability in sac d3 models gain that many PCP's... I'm thinking I need a unit of ten ungors to stay within 3" and a hero too. Am I right? Or is it possible to use another more active unit from your army to not only sacrifice from but that can also carry out other function simultaneously. 

I'm a BoC virgin FYI

Hi Sam24, welcome to the Beasts of Chaos Herd! 

You're correct - having a unit of Ungors and a Hero next to the herdstone is a good way to generate primordial call points. They  have to be within 3" of the herdstone and a hero to generate those points (though not wholly). If you want to generate primordial call points every turn, you're likely to end up having at least one unit babysitting at the herdstone, away from the action. However, there are a few different options to consider for herdstone care taking.

The Balewind Vortex is an endless spell that is only 40 points. If you cast it, you can put a wizard (great bray shaman) on top of it and add 6" to their casting range. This makes 'Tendrils of Atrophy' (the really good -1 save spell) an 18" range. Stacked with the herdstone's -1 save, this can be quite a threat to anything in range, and your opponent will certainly be intimidated by its presence.  You'll probably have to make your own balewind vortex from scenery though, as they're quite tricky to come by now. 'Vicious Stranglethorns' (the spell that deals D3 MW to units by a terrain feature) is also a good candidate for the vortex - it's range gets increased to an impressive 30". Its worth looking at all of the 'Lore of the Twisted Wilds' for more balewind vortex shenanigans - you might spot something really nifty. The Balewind Vortex and the Bray Shaman count as one model, so despite your shaman standing in the clouds, you can still use them to sacrifice ungors when not spellcasting.

If you picked up 'Beastgrave', you've probably got the Grashrak Fellhoof model and his minions. These make a good unit for herdstone babysitting as it includes a hero and some models to sacrifice, for a relatively low cost. There aren't really enough of Grashrak's minions to perform an effective battlefield role, so they make ideal herdstone fodder. Whats more is that Grashrak has another spell that is great for the vortex: 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/20/from-the-underworlds-to-your-armygw-homepage-post-2/

I have to make a correction you your original post: 

'With the headstone ability in sac d3 models gain that many PCP's... ' 

The PCPs are calculated by wounds done rather than models slain. You could have a single Doombull sat next to the herdstone to generate points, without having a sacrificial ungor unit as well. Doombulls are now only 100 points, so if your list is tight for points this is probably the most cost effective herdstone caretaker.

You could consider having a dragon Ogor Shaggoth there instead. Shaggoth's have access to a spell that heals friendly thunderscorn units, so you could mitigate the wounds done by self harm. At 170 points, the Shaggoth is roughly the same points cost as a bray shaman and a unit of Ungor (160 total). Unfortunately Shaggoth's can't go on Balewind Vortexes, but they still have access to a very powerful magic lore that's well worth considering. The Shaggoth can also turn into quite a formidable fighter if kitted out properly. A Shaggoth next to a herd stone is quite an intimidating prospect for your opponent  - if they don't deal with it, then more and more units are going to show up. If they decide to deal with it, they have to come into the aura of the herdstone and tackle the shaggoth with -1 to their save. The Shaggoth has a solid movement too at 8",  which is on top of their 'free' d6 move at the start of the hero phase. If needed, the Shaggoth can make it into the fray if you decide that he would be better placed away from the herdstone.  I don't actually have a Shaggoth so I havn't tried this out, but I've managed to convince myself to buy one after writing this paragraph.

That's just about all of the herdstone nonsense I've managed to come up with so far - do any other BoC players out there have any top tips?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dolomedes]

Big units

Has anybody tried running any larger than expected units from BoC?  I'm working on 4 Tuskgor Chariots at the moment, and after seeing the  points discount for running a unit of 4 (60 each, 200 for 4) I figured that it's probably running them all in one unit for a laugh.

Playing total war Warhammer got me thinking about some other big silly units I could run: a unit of 20 Centigors, a unit of 6 Razorgors, a unit of 6 Chaos Spawn etc. Has anybody tried these bonkers unit sizes? 

[Alan Mandelson]

20 Centigor are usually too cumbersome to be effective but 10 works wonders and even 15 could still be good (I play units of 15 Blood knights on the same base size and they work fine). The Bravery might be a big issue, especially the Centigor.  The big blob of spawn can be fun, especially if you have some/all the save debuffs in play (an effective -3 rend). 

[Sam24]

"Hi Sam24, welcome to the Beasts of Chaos Herd! "

Thanks Dolomedes! And thank you for this phenomenally detailed advice. Brilliant idea with Gashrak. I've actually been trying really hard to get a 200+ model BoC army. Though I've now learnt that Gavespawn is pretty much a must which means I need as many heroes as possible. This inevitably lowers my ability to get bodies on the paint table. I had been searching high and low for a Balewind Vortex, so I understand the issue but love the idea. 

Below is my current plan. I've bought everything that is currently available (no ungors or ungor raiders as yet). I did get a start collecting box, so I have built a fantastic ghorgon. But he will be for summoning. Expensive in PCP's and unlikely I realise. But as I said before, I'm going for high model count for the run on team. 

So this isn't a list that will excite anyone - no new ingenuity, but I'd appreciate feedback from those who have the experience of having played it. The idea is to ambush the shooters taking advantage of the desolating beastherd buffs. Run up from the front with the rest and hold those objectives as long as possible. It's pretty close to the lists I've been reading about around pages 140 ish. 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Greatfray: Gavespawn

LEADERS

Beastlord (90) - General - Command Trait : Unravelling Aura - Artefact : Mutating Gnarlblade

Beastlord (90) - Artefact : Brayblast Trumpet

Great-Bray Shaman (100) Great-Bray Shaman (100) - Lore of the Twisted Wilds : Wild Rampage

Great-Bray Shaman (100) - Lore of the Twisted Wilds : Savage Dominion

UNITS

10 x Bestigors (120)

10 x Bestigors (120)

20 x Gors (140) - Spears & Beastshields

20 x Gors (140) - Spears & Beastshields

40 x Ungors (200) - Mauls & Half-Shields

10 x Ungors (60) - Mauls & Half-Shields

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

10 x Ungor Raiders (80)

BATTALIONS Desolating Beastherd (150)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Ravening Direflock (30)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 205

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Sam24

[Sam24]

QQ: I've noticed on a batrep that the WF Taurus can backfire. So what do people think is better - WF Taurus, or another 10 ungor raiders? 

 

[Dolomedes]

6 minutes ago, Sam24 said:

"Hi Sam24, welcome to the Beasts of Chaos Herd! "

Thanks Dolomedes! And thank you for this phenomenally detailed advice. Brilliant idea with Gashrak. I've actually been trying really hard to get a 200+ model BoC army. Though I've now learnt that Gavespawn is pretty much a must which means I need as many heroes as possible. This inevitably lowers my ability to get bodies on the paint table. I had been searching high and low for a Balewind Vortex, so I understand the issue but love the idea. 

Below is my current plan. I've bought everything that is currently available (no ungors or ungor raiders as yet). I did get a start collecting box, so I have built a fantastic ghorgon. But he will be for summoning. Expensive in PCP's and unlikely I realise. But as I said before, I'm going for high model count for the run on team. 

So this isn't a list that will excite anyone - no new ingenuity, but I'd appreciate feedback from those who have the experience of having played it. The idea is to ambush the shooters taking advantage of the desolating beastherd buffs. Run up from the front with the rest and hold those objectives as long as possible. It's pretty close to the lists I've been reading about around pages 140 ish. 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Greatfray: Gavespawn

LEADERS

Beastlord (90) - General - Command Trait : Unravelling Aura - Artefact : Mutating Gnarlblade

Beastlord (90) - Artefact : Brayblast Trumpet

Great-Bray Shaman (100) Great-Bray Shaman (100) - Lore of the Twisted Wilds : Wild Rampage

Great-Bray Shaman (100) - Lore of the Twisted Wilds : Savage Dominion

UNITS

10 x Bestigors (120)

10 x Bestigors (120)

20 x Gors (140) - Spears & Beastshields

20 x Gors (140) - Spears & Beastshields

40 x Ungors (200) - Mauls & Half-Shields

10 x Ungors (60) - Mauls & Half-Shields

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

10 x Ungor Raiders (80)

BATTALIONS Desolating Beastherd (150)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Ravening Direflock (30)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 205

 

Have fun building and painting that lot! It took a couple of years for me to get that amount of brayherd models up to a minimum tabletop standard - never again!

The list looks pretty solid to me. Your strategy of gunking up the board with goats is tried, tested, and proven to be pretty successful. However, if you start to get a bit fed up with dealing with so many models, it might be worth considering minotaurs. I used to run lists nearing (and sometimes exceeding) the 200 model mark, and although it looks absolutely incredible on the tabletop, the novelty wears off when your first movement phases take an hour and a half. 'As many goats as possible' is by far the coolest way to play Beastmen, but I always have some minotaurs packed too, just in case I'm short on time (and patience!). 

I can attest to the power of the ungor raiders spam - since day 1 of AOS  (pre GHB!) I've been running 60 minimum, and now I have 90.  Those boys have never let me down in 5 years. Even without the brayblast trumpet and the desolating beastherd battalion, a block of 30 or 40 raiders is a solid choice. 

Regarding the Wildfire Taurus - I don't have enough experience with them to give a thorough account of their effectiveness, but from what I've seen the 'backfire' doesn't really matter all that much. When you're bringing so many chaff units and bodies to the table, you can afford a few mortal wounds here and there. From what I understand, the real effectiveness of the wildfire Taurus is due to it's ability to force a unit to fight last in the combat phase. 

[TheArborealWalrus]

4 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Has anybody tried these bonkers unit sizes? 

The primary problem with larger units is maneuvering around terrain. If you've got a big empty board then you'll be fine. A cluttered board will be difficult. Someone like 5 pages ago tried a 5 man unit of spawn.  Don't know how well it worked. 4 razorgor have done some reasonable damage for me. If you can get them all in, 4 chariots should be pretty devastating (as long as it's not a 3+ re-rollable save they run into) 20 centigors will suffer from morale issues, so they'd need a suitably fast hero to follow them. A shaggoth probably.  10 centigor are likely the better option. I've used 2 5mans and they worked very well with my beasts of khorne. 

I'm going to be testing my theory this Sunday regarding the possibility of a super elite beasts list. Dragon ogres are relatively fast and durable so will be the shields for my minotaurs. One of the doombulls pulls sacrifice duty for the first couple turns and then joins the fray or dies and becomes a spawn. The gors are there to complete the battalion. I could use them for sacrifice duty, not sure yet.  I picked gavespawn because the list is dependent on the minotaurs doing damage. The command ability will help with that while the ogres tie down the foe. I might want to split the minotaur units, in which case the gors won't be necesarry. Not sure what to do with the  extra 70pts, but worth considering. The tauros will hopefully stop an enemy flank so we can hit both sides equally hard.  Crushers are there to benefit from the gavespawn ability. The Sunday game will be alongside a Khorne tyrants list in a coalition game facing dwarven cities and an unknown army (probably elves of some type) We'll see how it goes. 

2,000 pts - Gavespawn - 4 drops - 38 models - 159 wounds

Spoiler

 

 - 180pts - Brass Despoilers

100pts - Doombull - general - mutating gnarlblade

100pts - Doombull

560pts - 2 X 6 bullgors - 2 handed axes

520pts - 4 X 3 Dragon ogres - crushers

70pts - 10 gors - shields

 -  170pts - Shaggoth - hailstorm

 - 170pts - Shaggoth - horn of the tempest, sundering blades

 - 50pts - chaos spawn

80pts - wildfire tauros

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[Popisdead]

On 8/8/2020 at 9:24 AM, Myrdin said:

So I`ve been thinking, Right now, with all the changes and updates etc etc. If I would like to run Beastmen under one of the other 4 God factions via the battalions, which one of them would give me the most buck ?

I seem to remember there were some nerfs here and there due to keywords no longer focusing on the God rather on stuff like "mortal" and "demon".

Is it still viable ? And if yes which God gives me the best synergies with the newly gained keyword from the battalion ?

Slaanesh.  3 x 10 Ungors, 30 Bestigors and a Great BS is still a really solid start to that army but you aren't playing actual Beasts of Chaos then.  Also large units of Ungors do well cause for 200 points you can unload lots of attacks and forcing that many saves is a good attrition war.  Also the Epitome gives you a reliable cast for Cogs to get those Bestigors across.

On 8/15/2020 at 1:09 PM, Alan Mandelson said:

20 Centigor are usually too cumbersome to be effective but 10 works wonders and even 15 could still be good (I play units of 15 Blood knights on the same base size and they work fine). The Bravery might be a big issue, especially the Centigor.  The big blob of spawn can be fun, especially if you have some/all the save debuffs in play (an effective -3 rend). 

20 are okay in Slaanesh.  especially attacking twice.  Like cheap Seekers since they have the reliability of a 1st turn charge.  In Nurgle 20 generating MWs on 4s with +1W from the Glotkin would be a hard thing to face but fairly unlikely for that all to succeed.

On 8/15/2020 at 3:06 PM, Sam24 said:

QQ: I've noticed on a batrep that the WF Taurus can backfire. So what do people think is better - WF Taurus, or another 10 ungor raiders? 

 

That is part of the "who takes the next turn" psychological aspect of Predatory endless spells.  I would say nearly every player should log in a dozen games with the Taurus.  It is so good when KO got a free Endless Spell "Bull in a bottle" became a meme.  

On 8/15/2020 at 3:50 PM, Dolomedes said:

to get a bit fed up with dealing with so many models, it might be worth considering minotaurs....

I can attest to the power of the ungor raiders spam - since day 1 of AOS  (pre GHB!) I've been running 60 minimum, and now I have 90.  Those boys have never let me down in 5 years. Even without the brayblast trumpet and the desolating beastherd battalion, a block of 30 or 40 raiders is a solid choice. . 

Nice to see you back

You also want Ungors as bodies for Minotaurs unless you go pure Dark WAlker and even then... Still want some.

On 8/15/2020 at 3:52 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

The primary problem with larger units is maneuvering around terrain. If you've got a big empty board then you'll be fine. 

Granted Large units are harder to shift off objectives.  The point of hte missions is objectives and 40 Ungors on 25 mm will at least contest really well  and better as the game turns progress.

[Salyx]

Has anyone made Experiences with a Depraved Drove Slaanesh army?  

All These Slaanesh buffs Sound so good(re-rolling 1s to Hit, exploding 6s, double pile-in). This points me to a Bullgor-heavy army with few Drops. Depraved Drove with 2-3 Bullgors units, 1-2 Doombulls, Contorted Epitome, Keeper and the Rest is filled with Ungor Chaff. 

 

Is this a stronger way to play Beasts of Chaos? Am I forgetting something? 

What is a must include, what do I have to pay attention to? 

Tell me about your games- if you already had them. Thank you very much 😊

[TheArborealWalrus]

So an update. Not sure if anyone actually wanted a play by play, but here it is.  The list performed better than I expected. The ogres actually did damage and survived okay. Plus none of them fled like I had feared. Bullgors were brutal as expected. I also realized that sundering blades doesn't have to be on thunderscorn units, which is kind of crazy. -3 rend minotaurs here I come! Or something else. There's just so many possibilities! ... I'm excited. I still need to try the list out in a proper fight though. Team games don't work at all like normal ones. He was also very kind to not use his fully armed and operational Gotrek on me. The little mad lad would've destroyed my entire army by himself with little effort. ... probably.  I think I'm  going to give one of the ogre units the paired blades in case I run into coalesced seraphon or the angry beardman again.

The basic plan is for the dragon ogres to run and charge, tying up enemy forces until the bullgors get there to deliver the death  blow. Short and simple. Oh! the un-upgraded doombull was serving as the sacrifice at the altar, in case anyone was wondering.

The List: 2,000pts, Gavespawn, no extra command point, 4 drops, 38 models, 159 wounds

Spoiler

- 180pts - Brass Despoilers

100pts - Doombull  - mutating gnarlblade

100pts - Doombull

560pts - 2 X 6 bullgors - 2 handed axes

520pts - 4 X 3 Dragon ogres - crushers

70pts - 10 gors - shields

 -  170pts - Shaggoth - hailstorm

 - 170pts - Shaggoth - general - horn of the tempest, sundering blades

 - 50pts - chaos spawn

80pts - wildfire tauros

The game was pretty much against a dwarf focused cities of Sigmar armyThe list would have been much more fearsome without the steam tank, but with so little room to maneuver Gotrek was in his element in the cramped streets. (also for those wondering it was 2 thirsters + pilgrims list vs the daughters of Khaine with morathi on the other side of the board)

Spoiler

- ???pts - max longbeards with greataxes

-???pts - 30 ironbreakers

- ???pts - 20 irondrakes

- ???pts - steam tank

- ???pts - max longbeards with shields

- ???pts - 2x runesmiths

- ???pts - gyrocopter

- ???pts - Gotrek 

50pts - command point

We were doing one of the streets of death missions.  The board was fittingly covered in buildings to create large streets and avenues with the flanks being mostly open. Whoever inflicted the most wounds and controlled the most objectives got 5 victory points. First to 10 won. I deployed on the right with my entire army closely together. Ogres were serving shield duties and I hid my heroes amongst the units in case I was somehow charged. Across from me was the ironbreakers, greataxe longbeards, and one of the runesmiths. This is where he was going to put Gotrek but he was kind and listened to my pleading. (we weren't doing a competitive game) He put Gotrek in the center with the rest of his army  who were sitting behind a low wall. My partner put 20 reavers, 5 mongers and 5 warriors to support the middle. 

We went first and I jammed most of my dragon ogre contingent down his throat. Only 2 units (one had sundering blades) and a shaggoth got in but they did far better than anyone expected. They killed all but 5 of the dwarves from the great axe longbeards for 4 wounds on each unit and 2 on the shaggoth. We were all flaberghasted. We were sure that they would hold, not crumble instantly. My last unit of ogres tentatively held the central objective with my partner's previously mentioned force. In his defense, my opponent was rolling quite poorly for his saves which did not help his forces. On his turn my opponent scrambled to support his flank. My objective holders in the middle got hit by the drakes (who held still to get +1 shot) and lost one of model. The longbeards with shield's stumpy legs were not enough to reach them  or the khornates however.  Gotrek likewise failed his charge. The stank on the other hand did not have this problem and charged in on my forward assault units with the ironbreakers.  I was once again surprised at the resiliency of the oges. One unit was wiped out by the stank and breakers, but  they only did 4 wounds to the shaggoth and like 2 to the other unit (who were mostly stuck into the remaining greataxes). In return 15 or so ironbreakers went down. (from both the shaggoth and enhanced unit) My opponent's partner had taken first fight to deal with a thirster and they had expected the damage to bounce off the 3+ save dwarves. Turned out to not work that way. It was the unit with sundering blades, but still, there were only two of them! Maddness.  I also piled in the assuredly going to die unit to prevent him from piling in on the shaggoth more. The remaining greataxes were wiped out by the other dragon ogre unit. My opponent had to use a command point to keep casualties down.  Oh, and 4 reavers were killed by the steam gun on the copter. That was a rough turn for team order.

Unfortunately my opponent's luck did not improve as we tied, giving us the turn and healing the shaggoth for 2 wounds. None of my spells went of (+3 unbinds from the runesmiths are rough on casting)  but we were in a good place. My second wave hit and it was pretty much all over. The bullgors got into the drakes and the ironbreakers with the gnarlblade doombull grabbing the steam tank. I had summoned some stuff but they didn't matter too much. The bull ripped the stank in half and the units didn't fare much better.  I lost another couple dragon ogres and a bullgor but my opponent had 2 runesmiths, whatever a max unit of longbeards is, and gotrek vs most of my army  and a handful of summons plus friends. On the other side of the table the khaine player had lost a group of snakes and some wytchs but my teammate had more left to his army. I'm going  to mostly skip my opponent's turn because it was mostly quiet on my side of the table. My teammate lost most of his left flank and I lost a summoned centigor unit but it was once again not a great turn for order. Gotrek was on 3 wounds left at this point too.  We inflicted more wounds and continued to hold the central objective and thus scored both mission goals again, ending in a chaos victory. 

So I can't really claim too much credit for that victory as I felt it more belonged to my opponent's poor rolls. The ironbreakers failed all 4 wounds from the sundering crushers! 4 4+ failed! Ridiculous. They even had the audacity to fail their 3+ saves against the claws. I in return spiked a couple of times with a massive charge into the irondrakes and the initial volley of saves against the same unit. Luck certainly favored me that day. If gotrek had been placed in the center of the greataxes like my opponent had initially planned then it (very likely) would have been so different. Gotrek could have easily wiped out 2 units per combat phase and since my army was relying on that multiple damage so much he would have really put a crimp in their style.  With how he was rolling saves though, it could have worked out. On a full sized board (khorne was taking up 2/3s of the table with all their 32mm bodies) I would likely have used my speed to avoid him (Gotrek's eternal problem). I plan on changing the weapons on 1-2 ogre units to deal with such damage mitigating threats. After all their job in this list is to hold the enemy, not kill them. Any damage they do is a bonus. (Theoretically) Not sure which weapon to go for. I never got the Taurus off this game, which was unfortunate. It would have compounded the slaughter. Now I just have to find someone to test the list properly on.

Cheers! For Morghur!!

Edited August 24, 2020 by TheArborealWalrus

[TheArborealWalrus]

20 hours ago, Salyx said:

Has anyone made Experiences with a Depraved Drove Slaanesh army?  

All These Slaanesh buffs Sound so good(re-rolling 1s to Hit, exploding 6s, double pile-in). This points me to a Bullgor-heavy army with few Drops. Depraved Drove with 2-3 Bullgors units, 1-2 Doombulls, Contorted Epitome, Keeper and the Rest is filled with Ungor Chaff. 

 

Is this a stronger way to play Beasts of Chaos? Am I forgetting something? 

What is a must include, what do I have to pay attention to? 

Tell me about your games- if you already had them. Thank you very much 😊

I haven't played as them, but I fought them. Slaanesh's buffs are excellent, but not all work with us. The one that rewards giant units could be good on a max bestigor unit. My friend was using max bestigor with bulls and the two slaanesh units you mentioned. I was using Khorne . I don't remember if it was my mortals list or my beasts of Khorne. Regardless he didn't have any screening units so I was able to grab his hitters with mine and counter punch his remaining army into oblivion using my screens. I can't get into more detail as this was when slaanesh was initially released. So a while ago.

It has stronger base special rules, but you lose out on both army's spell lores (I think. I don't own the slaanesh battletome so I can't confirm) There is also the lack of the herdstone and no ambushing which hurts the depraved drove who are a benefit for hero sniping. There is also the problem of having to spend 180pts on the battalion. Bullgors in theory are ideal candidates, but hitting on 4s with no way (that I know of) to boost it makes them do great or terribly. Score a bunch of 6s and you win, roll poorly, and you aren't tough enough to survive the reprisal before you get to pile in again. Doombulls are efficient for gathering depravity points and benefit from the afore mentioned special rules. Shaggoths can heal themselves so you could farm depravity from them or just spend 30pts more on another doombull. Up to you. Bestigor get a lot of attacks on the charge so they can get more chances to roll 6s which are especially nasty when they qualify for the additional hit beyond normal. Moving big units of 32mm bodies can be very challenging however. Up to you if you want to try that out. Perhaps someone else can offer suggestions to help with that. Gors are actually good screens with their larger bases and higher save, but if you want cheap as you can go, ungor work too.

A keeper is always  a must and the epitome is also useful. Besides that I am not familiar enough with the army to point out musts ect. Positioning the keeper(s) to give out the second pile in (and make your foes go last) can be tricky and leave you vulnerable to counter attacks. With the nerf to their summoning that can prove dangerous to the entire army. Centigors are as always a hidden gem for getting where they're needed and have enough attacks to be dangerous to squishy foes. They'll also still be able to make use of the battalion's ability. Their eternal problem however is expensive resin models from the early 2,000s.

Hope some of this helps and welcome to the herd!

[Maddpainting]

On 8/23/2020 at 6:42 PM, Salyx said:

Has anyone made Experiences with a Depraved Drove Slaanesh army?  

All These Slaanesh buffs Sound so good(re-rolling 1s to Hit, exploding 6s, double pile-in). This points me to a Bullgor-heavy army with few Drops. Depraved Drove with 2-3 Bullgors units, 1-2 Doombulls, Contorted Epitome, Keeper and the Rest is filled with Ungor Chaff. 

 

Is this a stronger way to play Beasts of Chaos? Am I forgetting something? 

What is a must include, what do I have to pay attention to? 

Tell me about your games- if you already had them. Thank you very much 😊

Playing BoC out of HoS is very strong actually. You want the basic Ungors as battleline,  some Bestigors, and take one Shaman, then KoS's and the other good heroes from Slaanesh (Chariots, Mirror, etc.. or just more KoS).

Slaanesh REALLY wants high wound strong melee heroes. A Doombull can work, but remember BoC also works great with lots of models. You want KoS heroes and BoC units.  Now with that said, you can make a really fun, list as pure BoC and BoC heroes, Doombulls, Shaggoths, are both great, take 3 of them and a shaman. 

Finally, if you are taking Slaanesh, you need units for summoning. So you will basically end up with a 2k army of Slaanesh in the end, this is the worst part of it IMO. and why i personally don't do it often.

[Smillis88]

Need some help on rules. Had a team match with 4 difforent armies. The skaven army had an ability put on them where they imediatly  pile in and fight on death and the squig army had an ability where it move back after it fights. Which would go first? And how does it work with the dead rats? Is the damage qpplied 1 and a time or all at once after his unit attacks with qll its qttacks? He seems to think he can pile in 1 at a time and keep walking his guys in to fight even tho he had guys guarding his sides with other units. 

 

Sorry for the long rant and would love some clarification

[TheArborealWalrus]

36 minutes ago, Smillis88 said:

Need some help on rules. Had a team match with 4 difforent armies. The skaven army had an ability put on them where they imediatly  pile in and fight on death and the squig army had an ability where it move back after it fights. Which would go first? And how does it work with the dead rats? Is the damage qpplied 1 and a time or all at once after his unit attacks with qll its qttacks? He seems to think he can pile in 1 at a time and keep walking his guys in to fight even tho he had guys guarding his sides with other units. 

So removing as casualties happens as a part of the fight action while resolving the attacks, so they would pile in and fight before the squigs retreated. Likewise, casualties are technically removed one at a time but for expediency we usually remove them all at once. So technically he could make a gap for them to reach a unit, then keep piling models into the gap until no more can reach it, then expand the gap to fit more.  If you're talking about if the goblin player can be made to lose attacks before he fights from the attack when they die ability, the answer is no. All of the attacks from the unit chosen to pile in and attack happen at once and then damage is resolved individually on a model until that model loses it's last wound, at which point you move on to the next until you run out of damage or models.

Hope that helps. Cheers!

[Ganigumo]

Hey guys, I've just started looking into expanding into BoC for my Tzeentch army, I was hoping the mortal side of Tzeentch would get some buffs so that Tzaangors could fit better but those didn't happen so I'm looking into playing phantasmogoria of fate under Tzeentch allegiance. I'm also aready sold on Slaangors based on box art alone but I'll cross that bridge when they release. I've started to put together a list but I'm not really that familiar with BoC units.

So far I've got this:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
Phantasmagoria of Fate (180)

Total: 1110 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400

I'm definitely going to fit in some skyfires,  but is that too many tzaangors? Is there any other unit I should try to fit in?

[Maddpainting]

Tzaangors at this point (the change to shields and no more 30man discount nerf them) are either all shield or take weapons, all shields makes them a tarpit unit and you want them in MSU units (so 4x10) if you are weapons then yes go 20mans and make sure to get a spawn near them in BoC or if in DoT make sure to get off the +1atks. There is a option if you can get +1 to save and rr1's to saves a single 20man with shields can work too. So Tzaangors has a place but you need to know what you want to do with them. 

If you are adding Skyfires then your list is 200 or 400 points more than what it is now making it 1310-1510. SO you about almost 700 and 500pts more to play with. 

IMO 1 large unit of Skyfire with buffs are going to be better in army with lots of MSU's, you can have a nice range hammer that can also still melee (Disks are still strong even on Skyfires when needing to kill off a couple guys), and with rr1's CP it can help moreso. Their movement is also really good. It also helps if you are not taking 2 Shamans and 2 Tshamans. If you are going with 4 total shamans then 2x3 will be better as you can support when and where you need much easier. 

A basic shaman is always need in BoC IMO b.c +3" is insane, and its also another caster for you. I also would add more Ungors, more bodies is needed.

So something like

Tshaman
Tshama
Shaman
Ungors
Ungors
x20 Tzaangors
2x10 Tzaangors
Skyfires x6, or 2x3
Battalion

This is 1820pts, after that you need to either double down on damage or on more units, b.c you are playing out of DoT book taking a caster from their book to help summon and maybe 1 more unit of Ungors would be best IMO. I left it open for you as i am just trying to keep your list your way but help give you ideas.

A final note, Pure Tzaangors is one of the harder armies to play, you have limited units and limited decisions on how to use them on the table, you make 1 wrong move and you'll lose that unit. It will be a few rough games so don't get discourage.

My favorite time playing DoT BoC was with a 30man Tzaangor unit that had a Shaman and Cog's (all shields), That i turn 1 charged a large line of ****** against a OBR player before he had his buffs up (he still got a couple as 2 of the buffs are anytime) but they lived (I lightly tagged 3 units just within 3" so he only got some attacks). He was locked there for 2 turns and won me the game easily b.c i already had 80+ ungors on other objectives and there was nothing he could do. 

If 1 drops and "picks" to go first goes away IDK how some of our lists will even work anymore.
 

[Ganigumo]

@Maddpainting I'm a bit skeptical of tzaangors in 10s, it seems like they lose a lot of power when they drop under 9 models. It feels like paired weapons is a trap to me though. +1 to hit is great, but for tzaangors 3 out of every 5 is already using a better weapon anyways.

I might try playing with some 10 man units more often though and see how it plays out, maybe i'm underestimating them.

[Maddpainting]

If you are taking for wounds, you don't care about power. Thats why i said larger units for DPS and smaller for tarpit/wounds. B.c they get a after save and are 2w's they can hold off vs many small hit hits.

BoC doesn't play the normal game like other armies, you need a few layers of wounds. But if you acn get 2 large units to work thats great., also try it out as 2x20 for a few games, and also try a unit a couple games for tar pitting, see what you like better.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Maddpainting

[cyberhawk94]

17 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

(the change to shields and no more 30man discount nerf them) are either all shield or take weapons, all shields makes them a tarpit unit

What change to shields?