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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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Myrdin recently asked for an account of Beasts of Chaos play out of different Chaos God allegiances. In the past, others requested the same.

I started a new thread to address this issue. I provide a quick overview of each allegiance, as well as the Beasts of Chaos allegiance itself, in that thread.

Here's a link: 

Hope it is helpful and interesting. I look forward to the conversation!

Edited by Fazhak
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1 minute ago, Maddpainting said:

I just posted a bit about how we are great at countering OBR if you wanted to check it out over at Fazhak post. If you want i can copy it to here.

I'm playing bone reapers tomorrow for the first time in our weekly club night. Please feel free to post here! :)

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Sorry about my english and grammar first.

With OBR meta, it also might be better to play Pure BoC until they are changed (if they will be). BoC can have the most Rend in the entire game easily.

Almost every unit starts out at -1 rend, with Bullgors and Doombulls -2 rend, a Gargant (AKA Giant) has lots of -1 and a -3 witha -2 rend attacks, a Chimera also has a -3 attack with lots of -1's, etc..

Herdstone for -1 save
Shaggoth spell for a unit gets an additional -1 rend
Shaman spell for a enemy unit gets -1 to saves
a Shaggoth relic for additional -2 rend
Allherdrelic for -1/-2/-3 rend (+1 rend for every 10 models in a unit(
A few other relics that are -1 rend with other rules

You could do

Shaggoth -2 rend relic (or Allherd relic)
Doombull +2D relic
Doombull
Shaman  Bray or on Disk (1 cast and re-roll casts once a game, also works well with Portal)
Bray Shaman and or Named shaman (He also has a +1 to hit spell)
Bullgor unit
Bestigor units
A giant and or Enlighten on Disks (price hike) or a Giant
Finally lots of Ungors/chariots/ models to get in the way.

You start with 3 Heroes, 2 at -2 rend, 1 at -3 (or more)  2 spells for more rend/lower saves, Bullgor unit for a -2 rend to start, then a few other units to fill out.
Try to cast both spells each turn (1 is a short range, so Shaman on Disk will work better get i range turn 1 cast turn 2, or take Portal and now you have 2 casts with re-rolls).  

Over all you can get many units at high rend easily. a 5+/6+ re-rolling isnt very good,  if you are lucky and get 2 spells off he is now -4 rend/5D, give him a couple attacks from CP (Gavespawn trait) he now has a potential of 25D and M-guard will have no saves, tho the Doombull will most likely miss 1 hit and 1 wound, so it'll be 15D, not bad for a 100pt character.

The Giant is most likely the Strongest single low point unit in BoC, if you can get the 3 spells on it,a nd 2-3 CP from Spawns, you could be rr1's, +1 to hit/wounds, +3atks, +2 rend (most likely fail a couple of those) But thats 4 attacks 3+/3+ re-rolls for -5 6D, yes 6D not 1D6 but flat 6 damage, and that is not counting the 4 -3 for D3 damage attacks for the 3D6+3 -3 for 1D attacks. But its  alot of spells and he could fail his charge (he can't charge if you roll doubles), Very high risk/reward.

Edited by Maddpainting
Spelling, I'm bad at english
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1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

I do both all the time, and the 10mans always do better than the 30 mans, for some reason people see 30 bestigors and get really scared and goes after them with everything they got 🤣

Yeah that is exactly what I was fearing.  I guess we also don't really have a huge amount of targeted buffs for units so splitting them up might be the better way to go.  Thankfully the battalions are super forgiving for taking MSU

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As mentioned a couple of pages before, I'm new to the BoC but after a couple of weeks I got my first miniatures painted.  Now I have the following questions:

1.) What's your experience with Razorgors? I would not take them into my lists, however I'd like to summon them. Their statline doesn't seem to shabby and 3 primordial points arent all that much either. 

 

2.) What's your opinion on Bullgors with double axes? At first I thought about taking them with the great axe but now I believe that the double axes might do more damage overall. Plus since we have multiple ways of reducing saves the -2 rend isn't that big of a loss.

 

3.) What's your experience with the big guys like Ghorgon and Chaos Gargant? Are they worth the money and points? They got some cool abilities and hit like trucks but I fear they might end up tanking ranged fire before ending up in melee-range with half of their health left.

 

Thx in advance 😎 

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4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I think I need to get another Shaggoth, and maybe a giant.  Ghorgon wasn't bad when I tried him out though, might be about the same as a giant with his eating someone ability.

With the points decrease I think there is no comparison: Ghorgon is cheaper, faster, tougher, more reliable, can dish out mortal wounds, can regenerate and has the very handy swallow whole.

On that note, swallow whole is a great tool against ORB, is you eat the Mortek guard unit champion (Mortek Hetakos), they can't re-roll saves any more!

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3 hours ago, SevenXes said:

As mentioned a couple of pages before, I'm new to the BoC but after a couple of weeks I got my first miniatures painted.  Now I have the following questions:

1.) What's your experience with Razorgors? I would not take them into my lists, however I'd like to summon them. Their statline doesn't seem to shabby and 3 primordial points arent all that much either. 

 

2.) What's your opinion on Bullgors with double axes? At first I thought about taking them with the great axe but now I believe that the double axes might do more damage overall. Plus since we have multiple ways of reducing saves the -2 rend isn't that big of a loss.

 

3.) What's your experience with the big guys like Ghorgon and Chaos Gargant? Are they worth the money and points? They got some cool abilities and hit like trucks but I fear they might end up tanking ranged fire before ending up in melee-range with half of their health left.

 

Thx in advance 😎 

1) I personally don't use them to often, someone else might help better with that

2) Half of mine are with dual axes and the other half with great weapons, i did this b.c a lot of the times i'm fighting things that ignore rend all together, but the Great weapons if you can rend will deal more damage on average (Bastiladon's, characters with aether amulet, Ishlean Guard, Nighthuant, just for some examples), with the +1 atk and re-roll 1's for free, it helps get an extra MW and more hit through means more chances for that fail of a 3++ or 4++. So i normally play with 1 unit with dual and 1 or 2 with great weapons.

3) I play my Ghorgon a lot b.c i love the model, its ok. Now with its points drop its more worth it. The giant tho normally does more damage, but its a risk vs reward unit. Sadly the Giant can't be in battalions so i normally don't play them b.c of that. 

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I think I finally have a list I like that's legal:

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Beastlord (90)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade
Beastlord (90)
- Artefact: Volcanic Axe
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Artefact: Shardfist Pelt
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Gors (70)
- Gor-Blades & Beastshields
30 x Ungor Raiders (240)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
Ghorgon (160)
Cygor (140)
Desolating Beastherd (150)
Pestilent Throng (200)
Doomblast Dirgehorn (50)
Ravening Direflock (30)
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 130
 

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19 hours ago, SevenXes said:

1.) What's your experience with Razorgors? I would not take them into my lists, however I'd like to summon them. Their statline doesn't seem to shabby and 3 primordial points arent all that much either.

2.) What's your opinion on Bullgors with double axes? At first I thought about taking them with the great axe but now I believe that the double axes might do more damage overall. Plus since we have multiple ways of reducing saves the -2 rend isn't that big of a loss.

3.) What's your experience with the big guys like Ghorgon and Chaos Gargant? Are they worth the money and points? They got some cool abilities and hit like trucks but I fear they might end up tanking ranged fire before ending up in melee-range with half of their health left.

 

1. I would rather summon Ungor, bit more board control and more wounds.
2. If you are taking the Brass Despoilers battalion or finding ways to buff their to hit rolls then the great axes are the way to go most of the time.  Dual axes are good if you aren't going to be buffing their to hit rolls and you need the inbuilt 1s reroll.  Shields are good if you need them to hold onto an objective but I feel like we have plenty of other units that already fill that role.
3. They are not great, even with the points drops.  A Ghorgon is probably borderline playable now but don't expect much out of it other than a big pile of wounds with some damage if it ever sees combat.  You can deep strike them in with the Darkwalkers herd and there are a few spells that can buff them but that is simply more points sunk into trying to "fix" the unit.  I think they are worth tossing in as a 1-2 of in a list and definitely worth fielding if you started via the start collecting box.  Giants are pretty rubbish because of that random charge rule and frankly rarely earn their points back.  Absolutely cool model but I don't think I have seen one on the table for a long time.

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1, Razorgors > I did use them extensively in every single list. One of the piggies won me a game on its own by sitting on an objective, for the entirity a game and it having so little presence and zero threat to anything, my opponent completely forgot about it as I was keeping him busy elsewhere.

However with the points increase they no longer work. Let me put it this way > Ogor Sabertusks are Razorgors on steroids.  These pigs should have much more going for them, be it either statline, or ability that adds some sort of value. Generating MW on charge if you roll 6 ? Not good enough. There is zero incentive to run them in groups bigger than 1, And this is one of the problems as well. 

Before they were 40pts and I often used them as padding, because It just happened that many times I had those 40 points open. Doesnt happen anymore due to the price shifts in our listing. The Tzaangor one hurts a lot, and Skyfires not dropping to compensate aint helping either. Solo Razorgors cant do much else than suicide stop something for a turn, and even thats not really that effective. Units of them do even less. The pigs need something to be either a utility tool, or a unit that can generate enough threat but still be cheap enough for throw away.

2. Minotaurs in general are not good. The MW proc on to Wound rolls, which already suffers from 50% drop due to Hit 4+. Basically the Bulls need an extra attack per all weapon profiles and buff to their horn attacks to be any good. Also the Bloodgreed, rule is not really well written. Procs on To Wounds, and the Heals happens only if you destroy units, instead of models. Bleh.

The dual axes are never worth it. With to Hit of 4+ you are better of taking the Great weapons and fishing for that DMG3 instead. Again, If Minos had an extra attack per weapon profile, I could see the Axes being more viable. Still though that 4+ hits them hard, and anyone who can reduce it to 5+ to Hit or even more pretty much neuters the unit completely. If paired axes gave +1 to Hit, I would be all for them. Just like Tzaangors. But this is somethign I said countless times, about paired weaponry for BoC so not gonna repeat it again.

3. With the price drop I personally think the Gorghon is pretty fun to use. And it can do fairly well. Before it was 200 points and didnt have the damage output. -1 Rend, and only 5 attacks is not enough. I still think the thing should be -2 Rend 6 Attacks for it to be the big gribbly, heck give it a terciary weapon profile "Stomping Hoofs" or something to make even better use of the Spell buff.

Regardless though. I use them and they work. With Dark Walkers they pose a psychological threat to enemy back line and force a redirection of resources. As you might know from previous discussions, Beastmen dont really have the stats and abilties to win straight out fights, but are great at stalling and board control. Thats what a Gorghon does for you. Ambushing one allows you to pose a threat to enemy movement and forces them to deal with it. At 160 pts its not even that big of an investment any more.  Now I mentioned Darkwalkers, but its not like it cant be used without them. However in that case I found it being better served deploying on flanks, along fast stuff like Centigors who work sort of like a snare a capture the target for the Gorghon to come a turn later and nom for. Deploying them center as the main piece so far didnt really work well for me, but then again I am not a tournament player so maybe I am doing something wrong there.

If it had an inbuilt -2Rend it would be dependable. As it is right now, its useful though definitely not a must take. But again with the price drop you can fit in 2 of these for 320 points which is pretty good deal.

In general our big monsters could use a lot more love, but then again what in our book couldnt. Having only movement as our only strength is kind lame.  

**********

Honestly I`ve been thinking about this for a while and figured out what really hurt Beastmen in AoS. The only thing that kept this army somewhat compeititive was Primal Fury special rule. After AoS happened it changed from an army wide rule into a Banner Bearer, and then we lost even that. Leaving us with the same stat line but no way to mitigate the pathetic low Hit rate on our more elite stuff. 

If we got Primal Fury back, even if in a different way, let say it procs only on Charges, that by itself would do more for BoC than the price adjustments we`ve seen so far.

Edited by Myrdin
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10 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Take a Gor unit out for an Ungor to make it legal.  Also you could take out one of the BL's so you can 1 Drop instead of a 2 drop army if that is something that interests you (So you could keep the Gors and drop the BL for a unit of Ungors or Raiders)

If he takes out a Gor or Tuskgor Chariot unit he won't have the minimum 3 units for the Pestilent Throng. Needs to drop a Beastlord for the Ungors to  make it legal. If he dropped the Pestilent Throng with the Beastlord it was still be a 2 drop list since the Desolating Beastherd only has a single slot for a Gorgon/Cygor.

 

Hope this helps.

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Thanks for the feedback. Both the Ayzr app & Warscroll Builder said my list was legal. Glad I checked here first.

What if I split up my Ungor Raiders into two blocks? Would that work? I'm hesitant to drop my second Beastlord.

I could also drop Grashrak's Despoilers, that frees me up lots of points to make it legal.

I will make the appropriate swaps and drop my second list for more feedback soon. I have a casually-competitive tourney in June that I want to run this list for.

 

Edited by Televiper11
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1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

The apps don't check for Battalions, so you need to check for that.

Thanks. I decided to drop the Gors for Ungors and add a third Chariot. That should tick all the boxes. I'm happy to have a two-drop list.

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Beastlord (90)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade
Beastlord (90)
- Artefact: Volcanic Axe
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Artefact: Shardfist Pelt
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Shortspears & Half-Shields
30 x Ungor Raiders (240)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
Cygor (140)
Ghorgon (160)
Desolating Beastherd (150)
Pestilent Throng (200)
Extra Command Point (50)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Doomblast Dirgehorn (50)
Ravening Direflock (30)
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Wounds: 126
 

Or, alternately:

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Beastlord (90)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade
Beastlord (90)
- Artefact: Volcanic Axe
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Artefact: Shardfist Pelt
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Vicious Stranglethorns
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Shortspears & Half-Shields
30 x Ungor Raiders (240)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
Cygor (140)
Ghorgon (160)
Desolating Beastherd (150)
Pestilent Throng (200)
Ravening Direflock (30)
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 136
 

Edited by Televiper11
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