AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Ethriel]

On 1/2/2020 at 1:33 PM, Great Bray Tom said:

Oh and it’s not 10 MW max. He does MW for every wound ALLOCATED to him, so if he was to receive 15 mortal wounds I believe he would do 15d4+ mortal wounds back.

 

Just wanted to clarify that's no longer the case, and they did put it in the FAQ.

In the heady pre-battletome days of GA: Chaos, you could go over, and I killed many a Bloodthirster/unit with the shenanigans. But now you can do a Max of 10 if you don't heal him.

Q: I would like some clarification on how the Jabberslythe’s Spurting Bile Blood ability is intended to work, specifically whether ‘overkill’ damage triggers dice rolls to test for mortal wounds. For example, if my Jabberslythe suffers 12 wounds from a single unit’s melee weapon(s), do I roll 12 dice to test for mortal wounds even though the Jabberslythe has a Wounds characteristic of 10?

A: The Spurting Bile Blood ability triggers when a wound is allocated. As wounds are allocated one at a time until the model is slain, any ‘overkill’ will not cause the ability to be triggered. See page 7 of the core rules, ‘Allocating Wounds’.

 

 

 

 

[Maddpainting]

On 1/7/2020 at 10:10 PM, decker_cky said:

I'm tempted to try something in the new tzeentch allegiance including a big block of Bullgors. The agendas make it simple to really ramp the unit with benefits:

+1 attack on the charge for completing a 9+ inch charge....easy to guarantee with fate dice

+1 to hit for destroying a unit of 9+ models

+1 save for destroying a hero or monster with 9+ wounds

There's also the fatemaster, which super fast, cheap, and can give a reroll to hit bubble to make up for the minotaurs' big weakness, and the blue Scribes to give rerolls to cast to our bray shaman and grashrak.

 

edit: Something like this, in guild of summoners or hosts arcanum.

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Doombull (100)
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
Fatemaster (120)
The Blue Scribes (140) (minus 20 in new book)

Battleline
40 x Ungors (200)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
9 x Bullgors (420)
- Pairs of Axes
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)

Behemoths
Ghorgon (160)

Battalions
Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 2020 / 2000 (minus 20 for cheaper blue scribes)
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
 

IDK about it just yet, i need to re-read the DoT book again, and a couple more times to full grasp all the buffs that we can get, but personally i would take out the Ghorgon, i still don't think they are worth it outside of Warherd, greatfray, and battalion buffs, also you only have a few spells, if you took out the Ghorgon you could get another caster, this will help you more IMO.

 

9 hours ago, Ethriel said:

 

Just wanted to clarify that's no longer the case, and they did put it in the FAQ.

In the heady pre-battletome days of GA: Chaos, you could go over, and I killed many a Bloodthirster/unit with the shenanigans. But now you can do a Max of 10 if you don't heal him.

Q: I would like some clarification on how the Jabberslythe’s Spurting Bile Blood ability is intended to work, specifically whether ‘overkill’ damage triggers dice rolls to test for mortal wounds. For example, if my Jabberslythe suffers 12 wounds from a single unit’s melee weapon(s), do I roll 12 dice to test for mortal wounds even though the Jabberslythe has a Wounds characteristic of 10?

A: The Spurting Bile Blood ability triggers when a wound is allocated. As wounds are allocated one at a time until the model is slain, any ‘overkill’ will not cause the ability to be triggered. See page 7 of the core rules, ‘Allocating Wounds’.

 

 

 

 

I did miss that thanks. I was just having this conversation with my group about it too, Good now i can show them the faq.

[decker_cky]

15 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

IDK about it just yet, i need to re-read the DoT book again, and a couple more times to full grasp all the buffs that we can get, but personally i would take out the Ghorgon, i still don't think they are worth it outside of Warherd, greatfray, and battalion buffs, also you only have a few spells, if you took out the Ghorgon you could get another caster, this will help you more IMO.

I think you are missing the most important tactical point: I have a nicely painted blue mierce ghorgon model which is guaranteed to play well.

I also don't think tzeentch is as caster dependent as you would think. I would probably run Hosts Arcanum which gives me 6 free screamers, an auto dispel turns 1, 3 and 5, and some potential free movement turn 1 for the flyers. Until you have 5 casters, the summoning will be pretty minimal. 

edit: Revised list a bit to fit in 3 skyfires (worth it to burn a pair of 6's for a chance to remove a key support character). 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
Fatemaster (120)
The Blue Scribes (120)

Battleline
40 x Ungors (200)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Gors (70)
- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

Units
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
9 x Bullgors (420)
- Great Axes
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
10 x Bestigors (120)

Behemoths
Ghorgon (160)

Battalions
Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 1990 / 2000 
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 158
 

Edited January 9, 2020 by decker_cky

[Popisdead]

4 hours ago, decker_cky said:

I think you are missing the most important tactical point: I have a nicely painted blue mierce ghorgon model which is guaranteed to play well.

...

9 x Bullgors (420)
- Great Axes

 

#science.  Nicely painted ghorgons always roll better.

TBH I'm keen to see how 9 Bullgors do.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Popisdead

[Chaos Shepard]

58 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

#science.  Nicely painted ghorgons always roll better.

Oh how I wish this was true.

[Maddpainting]

I have a nicely painted Ghorgon and it did ******, and my 1/2 built 1/2 painted (I was converting it) Leviadon from IDk rolled more 6MWs than anything i have ever seen lol.

[Fazhak]

So, bit of an update on the Pestilent Throng list.

Overall, good stuff. The speed at which the force engages the opposition and claims objectives is really tough to overcome. With only three drops, a lot of armies end up going second. Being able to set the terms of the battle, tying up opposing forces while claiming objectives from the onset, greatly helps determine the pace of the encounter.

I ended up switching this force's realm of origin to Aqshy, so that I could swap the Great Unclean One's "The Endless Gift" artefact for the realm's "Thermalrider Cloak." With the Doomsday Bell's bonus to speed included, my general now usually moves at least 12", prior to potential run or bonus from the Cycle of Corruption. I wanted it to be able to keep up with my warherd units, so that it can more consistently be in range to heal those units via Plague Wind. As impressive as "The Endless Gift" can be, the extra speed (plus flight) is likely more useful and fun.

For the nerdy(er) aspect of the game, I imagine my army being from a fever swamp of the Realm of Fire, with the Great Unclean One having become almost bestial itself, a creature of rabid and mind-destroying disease, such that the Beasts of Chaos are drawn to its service and the list's sorcerer serves as its only steward and vassal to the speaking world. Not a bad concept, I think, to give the list a bit of character and depth.

The list (without the above artefact swap) is posted on recent pages. Please let me know if you'd like me to post again here. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it. Likewise, Decker, it might be fun to imagine how our lists would do against one another, pitting your recently posted Tzeentch list in opposition to this Pestilent Throng!

Edited January 11, 2020 by Fazhak

[Heaven_lord]

Hi,

Is it possible to build a 1k pts (for single and double games) competitive beast of chaos army centered around Minotaurs (Doombull and bullgors, Monsters, etc.) ?

Thank you !

[Maddpainting]

Not monsters, but the Doombull is very cheap, being 100pts, and the Bulls can be buffed with +atk's, and in Khorne Battalion get re-rolls 1 very easily and re-roll wounds for 1 turn. Taking 2 Doombulls and 2 units of Bullgors can be played competitively if you have other units to back them up and use our movements to take objectives like chariots, centigors, ungors.

When playing doubles you need to pick something to help your team, if you are playing with a OBR friend with M guard spam, well fast units and range units will be better to take, if the are OBR with 2 Catapults then we need to take fast movements with lots of wounds and tank and swarms. If you are playing with a Skaven player that is massive hordes (120 clan rats, 40 plague monks) we need to hit very hard, so Bullgors would be better.

BoC we cant really take anything we want into a team game and play well, our tools are not to team oriented so you need to take units that work best with their weakness.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Forehead]

If running one of the god specific battalions can we ally in a daemon prince and still make it god specific. E.g run brass despoilers and take a khorne DP or does the daemon prince lose its StD keyword and make it unviable for allying?

[Sauriv]

20 minutes ago, Forehead said:

If running one of the god specific battalions can we ally in a daemon prince and still make it god specific. E.g run brass despoilers and take a khorne DP or does the daemon prince lose its StD keyword and make it unviable for allying?

You are allowed to ally in a daemon prince because it has the slaves to darkness keyword. The prince need to select an additional keyword to one of the gods but nothing happens to the StD keyword. 

You don't need to run any god specific battalions to ally in a prince if you are playing as Beasts of Chaos. 

[Forehead]

Thanks Sauriv, I'm just looking to add a little variety / thematic element to my list building so was looking at good additions for the god specific stuff.

Last night I tried out the Sigil of Tzeentch and Tome of Eyes spell which could be cast by all of my bray shamen within the phantasmagoria. They didn't do anything other than power up my StD opponent's darkfire daemonrift endless spell - which did d3 (2) wounds + 3 wounds for the sigil, tome, BW vortex + 3 wounds for being close to three wizards. 8 wounds to my 30 raiders, killed a shaman outright, killed 5 gor that were floating around and then 8 wounds to my ungor near the herdstone.  Absolutely devastating and an endless spell thats definitely worth a look.

[Myrdin]

Hey guys so reading all of this it might be a good idea to make a short summary regarding BoC in different God armies.

There seems to be good number of you who have tried BoC under each individual God and got a solid grasp on just how they perform in these conditions and what boons do we got for playing as God marked Beastmen.

As such could you please share (surface level or in depth, both will be appreciated) a summary of sort. What does each God army do for Beastmen, if the Beastmen are taken for that army via its corresponding God Battalion ?

Like Khorne does: X!Y!Z!, Slaanesh does 6996 , Tzeentch does: $&%O*£) and Nurgle does: .....x___x......

 

I am sure there might be people like me who did try to run Vanilla BoC up till this point, but with the power creep beeing what it is, its seems more viable to run them under a God specific army via our God Batallions , thus compiling what you get from each into one spot might be a good way to get a general idea and comparison

[Maddpainting]

I'm still running vanilla BoC, sure there is power creep but i have a stupidly OP CoS army if i needed to win and my full local know it. I just have so much fun with BoC even if i lose. But at least i never lose by a large amount it is always down to the last turn. I'm in a lucky position where i can play 24/7 (we literally have a 24/7 club) so i get in many games, play 2-3 games a week is nothing so i don't notice the wins/lots much anymore.

With that said, i did buy the Slaanesh and Tzeentch books. I am converting 1000pts of BoC into Slaanesh (Ghorgons for KoS, Ungors for Daemonettes, etc...) and i do have a huge amount of Tzeentch models (50 Tzaangors, 15 TEoD, 6 Skyfire, 4 Tzaangor Shamans) i just need to get a Gaunt summoner + Horrors. I plan on playing them time to time now. But i'm more excited to play Khorne, i think that will be very strong for us, especially after the HoS nerf, easu rr's, easy +1atk, can double move, can double attack, so strong. 

 

[Televiper11]

Quick question: is this a legal, Matched Play list? Warscroll Builder says it is but a player told me the second battalion is invalid. Who is correct? This would be for a 2.5K match.

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
The Glottkin (420)
Beastlord (90)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade
Beastlord (90)
- Artefact: Volcanic Axe
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Artefact: Troggoth-hide Cloak
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide
Be'Lakor (240)
- Allies
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Gors (70)
- Gor-Blades & Beastshields
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
5 x Centigors (80)
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
Cygor (140)
Ghorgon (160)
Pestilent Throng (200)
Desolating Beastherd (150)
Wildfire Taurus (80)
Ravening Direflock (30)
Doomblast Dirgehorn (50)

Total: 2440 / 2500
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 139
 

[Forehead]

You wouldn't be able to take the Glottkin under the beasts allegiance as he doesn't have the beasts of chaos keyword and can't be allied without the slaves keyword.  You could run Nurgle allegiance but then I don't think you can take Grashrak's despoiler dudes or the desolating beastherd battalion.

Running two separate battalions is fine.

[Televiper11]

Doesn't the BoC battalion give all BoC units the Nurgle keyword? 

Would it mean I'd have to dump Be'lakor to take Glottkin as an ally?

The wording is very confusing.

[Forehead]

Pestilent throng gives all of the units in the batallion the Nurgle keyword but to play the BoC allegiance your army will need Beasts of Chaos keywords or Slaves to Darkness for allies. Be'lakor is ok as he has StD keyword but Glottkin can't even be allied as he has neither keyword.

It's taken me some time to get my head around it too!

[Death1942]

Thoughts on this?  I feel it is a bit light on bodies and maybe I should look to spam Gors and Ungors to clog up the board.  I probably need more support from shamans too now that I think about it.


Gravespawn Beasts of Chaos:

Tzangor Shaman
Vicious Stranglethorns

Chaos Spawn

6 Englightened on Disc

Brass Despoilers:
2x Ghorgon

Beastlord

Mutating Gnarlblade

Doombull
General, Unravelling Aura

30 Bestigors
10 Gors with shields

10 Gors with shields

6 Bullgors with great axes

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

On 1/15/2020 at 6:27 AM, Maddpainting said:

I'm still running vanilla BoC, sure there is power creep but i have a stupidly OP CoS army if i needed to win and my full local know it. I just have so much fun with BoC even if i lose. But at least i never lose by a large amount it is always down to the last turn. I'm in a lucky position where i can play 24/7 (we literally have a 24/7 club) so i get in many games, play 2-3 games a week is nothing so i don't notice the wins/lots much anymore.

I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying vanilla BoC. It's how I'd prefer to run mine as well, and I'm curious to know what sort of advice you'd offer, if you had the time and/or inclination?

[Maddpainting]

37 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying vanilla BoC. It's how I'd prefer to run mine as well, and I'm curious to know what sort of advice you'd offer, if you had the time and/or inclination?

Well the biggest thing IMO is you need to know your opponents army (Duh) but i mean you need to know when, where, and how they are going to damage you while keeping that in mind focusing on objectives.  I'll ignore a lot of units just to get to objectives and even sacrifice units on purpose. Play BoC more like a Chess match, i'll give a couple examples.

I played against new StD a few times this week and last week. I have counter Archaon every game and made him pointless, with Combat blocking. B.c i play Gavespawn i have turn 2 charged him 3 games in a row and charge again turn 3 with characters, BL's, Doombull, Shaman, etc.. so they will die and a Spawn will lock him in combat, sure i could roll a 1, but out of the 6 combats, that did happen twice, but every turn i stopped him he didnt kill my Bestigors and Bullgors.

I also have a few 10man ungor units blocking as much space as i can in triangles, circles, w/e it takes to stop units movements (depends if they have fly or not as to how i move them), 3" movement denial buff is so important. 

I am a LARGE believer in 3 ways to play 1) no threats, 2) Over saturated of threats, or 3) underkill/wasted damage. I normally play a mix of all 3, i'll play with 10man Bestigors b.c a 30man in my experience just dies way to easy. And units like Be'lakor or Nagash, etc.. will target them right away. With 10mans there is no real threat and a lot of spells will just be wasted, yes it killed 10, but that same spell/ability/etc.. would normally be able shut down/kill 15, 20, even 30 guys.  But i'll have 1 unit that is a threat that will take those hits, Raiders, I ambush them on flanks or use them to kill a key small hero, sure its 240 points, but killing a Necromander, a Chaos Lord, a DP, or a Re-rolls 1 aura hero, etc.. IMO is well worth it, after that unit is dead that Raider unit will now pull so much threat that it can clear an entire flank. 

Some of the games i have won literally had a Hero and a few ungors/bestigors left on the table. Games are always close, i have never been blow out via points. With that said there are a couple missions that i do suck at, 1 is Knife to the Heart, you have to hold 2 objectives turn 3+ and whoever does instantly wins. I try to wait as long as i can and keep as much alive as i can and make 1 really strong turn for their objective. But against SCE, KO, CoS shooting armies its the worst missions for me.

I've been testing out Bullgors instead of Enlighten, man i am missing the movement of enlighten, the 19" movement is so good for my playstyle, but i am getting a 2 Bullgor untis + an Ungor unit and still have 20pts left over.  The shift is both good and bad, its good b.c i have more units/wounds, but i'm not used to that playstyle just yet. I'm used to having 3x3 Enlighten always on the ready to charge.

Finally i also try pile ins to pull 1 model in range of melee. I also like the Taurus now that it is cheaper, i don't really use it to deal damage, i use it b.c i like to have 3-4 units going first and pile in so i can deny as much damage i can while positioning myself for a good next turn. I only use it with the Shaman, i'll cast it then dispel it. 

A lot of this also only works b.c i always play 1 drop armies too.


And the best part is, Gavespawn is so fun, i try to play 4 heroes always, but now i am playing 5 (2 Doombulls, or 1 DB + 1 BL, 2 Shamans, 1 Tzaangor shaman) its 540 or 550 points, i take Grashrak Fellhoof if i play with 4 heroes. I'm still trying to figure out what i like best after the changes in points. Everyone that i play against HATES my heroes and will try to kill them with all of there might with spells. Its the funniest thing to be scared of spawns B.c i just don;t care, i'll throw my 150pt shaman at your Archaon (if they don't fight twice, i make sure what units can and can't fight twice), or you DP, or their 40man +atk, +1D melee gods, etc.. anything i can to stop a unit and watch them murder a hero and a Spawn pops out and there is nothing they can do about it.  I won a game once b.c my opponent only had the ability to get to the objective i was holding with 1 Death hero (it was some Death hero that can teleport and charge on a 6+ or something) he did and he forgot i can turn to spawns, i had 2 shamans standing ont he objective,  they turned to spawns (Only 1 needed to turn for me to win that why i put 2 there to make sure i didnt roll a one, i knew he could teleport and charge out of melee so the spawn trick wouldn't work, and i was hiding my heroes for late game on purpose) , he was LIVID (in a good way, laughing with anger). The funniest thing ever.


Now i did lose my last game vs StD, but we both played "Fun lists" and wasn't trying to win, he wasn't to play Varangaurd and they are terribe. but we still played our tactics to our best (I also only lost b.c i failed 1 dice roll, so it was very close).

We have a personally forum and someone asked how Archaon did, this was his response. It was 4 turn game b.c it was Knife to the heart.


 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

@Maddpainting

Thanks tremendously for the advice!

[Lord Krungharr]

Are Darkwalkers best to use for a whole bunch of Bullgors? 

I have the Brass Despoilers with 3x3 greataxe ones, Doombull, Ghorgon; and I just bought another 9 axe/shield bullgors and another doombull, so I'll have a mighty Warherd!  And I have 3x10 Gors (shields) and 2x10 Bestigors, and a Great Bray Shaman. 

I've been using the Brass Despoilers in a Khorne army, and while they can chop their way through quite a bit, I'm wondering if that outflanking ability of the Darkwalkers would outweigh the extra attacks and theoretical Slaughterpriest buffs from the Khorne heroes.  I had real trouble getting them past enemies, while anyone with flying dudes can just hop over and gain control and/or burn my objectives 😛

I also have 2 Tuskgor Chariots in the works, and 2 custom Jabberslythes needing painting.  Good for summoning?

[iogaa]

On 1/6/2020 at 10:26 PM, Maddpainting said:

The Gaunt Summoner now has a StD keyword now, so can we ally it in even tho its in the DoT battletome

EDIT: I didn't understand alliances, but yes we can ally him.

Edited January 18, 2020 by iogaa
Alliances are not mutual.

[Sauriv]

5 hours ago, iogaa said:

EDIT: I didn't understand alliances, but yes we can ally him

You can think of it in a fluff way. The chaos gods are too proud to fight under the Beast of Chaos flag but the other way around works because the gods allow BoC to fight for them.