AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Malakithe]

How would a Brass Despoilers list look for 2k? Im not sure how to set it up and what allegiances are used. Where do the traits and items come from?

[Maddpainting]

On 11/29/2019 at 6:16 AM, Malakithe said:

How would a Brass Despoilers list look for 2k? Im not sure how to set it up and what allegiances are used. Where do the traits and items come from?

Are you staying as BoC? B.c your question is kinda of hinting towards not?

[Myrdin]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:36 AM, Forehead said:

I played a khorne player earlier this week and he placed his skull altar right up at the edge of my territory. I've had the same with a gloomspite gitz loonshrine. Is it just our herdstone that needs to be 12" from enemy territory? I tried searching about this but i cant find anything conclusive and i assume its tucked away in their batteltomes.

So you mean to say the Khorne altar doesnt have to be within the territory of the Khorne player ?

This is the wording for Herdstone: 

After territories have been chosen but before players begin to set up their armies, you can set up one HERDSTONE (pg 103) wholly within your territory, more than 12" from enemy territory and more than 1" from any other terrain features. If both players can set up a terrain feature in this manner, each player rolls a dice, rolling again in the case of a tie, and whoever rolls higher can choose the order in which the terrain features are set up.

 

The problem with this is that it has to be withing our territory.  And with how slow the aura expands, I found it often times useless in most of my games.... granted > to be completely honest I havent played BoC since the changes to Territories in the last big Rules update, since I was focused on getting my CoS ready, so that might have changed. Having a Herdstone that actually does things start Turn 2 when its most needed would actually make that rock somewhat useful.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Myrdin

[Forehead]

The Khorne skull altar was just inside his territory but was only a short distance away from my territory unlike the herdstone which was 12" away from his territory. Not sure if this was legal placement and if everyone else's faction terrain has more powerful placement rules than ours.

[Chaos Shepard]

Everyone's terrain feature has different rules for how they are to be deployed. While I don't know the skull alter's specific restrictions it would not surprise me if it was less restrictive because of how less impactful it is over all.  

[Maddpainting]

So, i'll be adding in the new Khorne DP for sure now. Yes it is 210pts, but its CP is very good, its an Aura that halves all Runs and Charge roles for all enemy units with 18".

Combine that with our movements, Devolve, and Hailstorm, we can completely control the movement phase.

[decker_cky]

Belakor is the one I've been eyeing for Beasts of Chaos. Both  Khorne DP and Belakor are strong pieces that don't rely on slaves to darkness synergies to be effective.  

Sphyranx is another good one that should be in a beast player's toolkit. 

[Derptau]

10 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Belakor is the one I've been eyeing for Beasts of Chaos. Both  Khorne DP and Belakor are strong pieces that don't rely on slaves to darkness synergies to be effective.  

Sphyranx is another good one that should be in a beast player's toolkit. 

Belakor is ok, also the giant summoner is another one that I’m going to try out. It’s self contained so it adds a lot to the army itself. 
 

The price of the sphyrinx is amazing so I can see always dropping in at least one of them.

[decker_cky]

1 hour ago, Derptau said:

Belakor is ok, also the giant summoner is another one that I’m going to try out. It’s self contained so it adds a lot to the army itself. 
 

The price of the sphyrinx is amazing so I can see always dropping in at least one of them.

If you have sphiranx, it may be worth including the direflock in your army. There was a discussion a few pages back about using the direflock to disrupt movement, but against armies vulnerable to battleshock, stacking with an additional -2 bravery bubble with the large -2 bravery bubble from the sphiranx could turn games. 

[ColsBols]

Has anyone considered using allied Chaos Warriors as objective holders or general tanks? I find that while ungors and gors work fine for screens they melt away as soon as anything looks at them and was thinking about throwing some in to bog down tough blobs

[decker_cky]

34 minutes ago, ColsBols said:

Has anyone considered using allied Chaos Warriors as objective holders or general tanks? I find that while ungors and gors work fine for screens they melt away as soon as anything looks at them and was thinking about throwing some in to bog down tough blobs

 

Without extra support, I'd rather the much cheaper iron golems as allies. Worth noting that for any allies to beasts of chaos that the herdstone will drop the saves of friendly non-beasts of chaos models  in range (aside from belakor!).

[Fazhak]

I'm trying out a new list and wanted to share. If you have feedback, please let me know. I hoped to see if Nurgle had something to offer uniquely to us, as criticism of Nurgle at this point in AoS 2 seems rather widespread. So far, I am happy with the following list.

The Doomsday Bell's "Reverberating Summons" movement bonus really is significant, especially when combined with multiple ways to hopefully get the Cycle of Corruption to "Unnatural Vitality." Setup involves running the Pestilent Throng at the edge of my own territory closest to the opponent, with the Great Unclean One behind that line so to maximize the amount of units benefiting from "Reverberating Summons." The Great Bray-Shaman is similarly placed to maximize its speed buff to both the Centigor unit and the Bestigor unit.

The result is a Centigor unit that runs at least 21"+d6" (14" base + 3" from Great Unclean One + 3" from Great Bray-Shaman + 1" from unit Banner Bearer). with an additional potential 2" bonus from "Unnatural Vitality."

To keep pace, I use a Command Point to maximize the Bestigor unit's run, moving that unit 19" (6" base + 3" from Great Unclean One + 3" from Great Bray-Shaman + 1" from unit Banner Bearer + 6" run).

Both these units can run and charge, meaning that, presuming a routine starting distance of no more than 24", I can reliably alpha strike select opposing units (the list drops in three), while the Ungor units screen and claim backfield objectives.

Speaking of running and charging, I place my free Feculent Gnarlmaw forward to benefit my two Ghorgon units. With the Great Unclean One's bonus, they run initially at least 11"+d6". The goal is to get them within 7" of the Feculent Gnarlmaw, so they can then run and charge (per the Feculent Gnarlmaw's "Entropic Chimes"). If possible, the hope is to charge/alpha strike a single opposing unit with both Ghorgon units, to compliment the Centigors and Bestigors.

In all, it's a very fast list. Its strongest "trick" is for the Sorcerer to cast Blades of Putrefaction on the Centigors, which have already been buffed from their own "Drunken Revelry." At a casting value of 7, the spell is not guaranteed, but still a solid option. If successfully cast, rather than simply benefiting from solely 6+ to hit rolls, the Centigors now inflict extra mortal wounds on 5+ to hit rolls (as Blades of Putrefaction does not require only unmodified rolls). This is a big increase in potential damage; it helps considerably improve the prospective alpha strike. 

The Sorcerer is interesting, as I have it cast the Balewind Vortex to maximize spell range (increasing the caster's save to 4+ is nice, too). Combined with "Muttergrub," the Sorcerer is then able to cast three spells per turn. These are typically Blades of Putrefaction, Arcane Missile, and either Mystic Shield or its own Stream of Corruption spell (if opponent's units are in range). The Great Unclean One is usually moved to claim central, high-point value objectives, while remaining close enough to the Ghorgons to heal them both with Plague Wind. The above spell distribution frees up the Great Bray-Shaman to cast Foul Regenesis each turn, so that I hopefully get my choice of Cycle of Corruption bonuses (again, casting value of 7 means spell is not guaranteed).

A nice thing about this list is that the unit of twenty Centigor costs the same as a unit of six Bullgor. This means I can switch out between the units, as I continue to test the overall list. I like the Centigor, and the Blades of Putrefaction alpha strike is strong, yet I wonder sometimes if Great-Axe Bullgors might have more staying power.

Here's the list. I look forward to the conversation!

Allegiance: Nurgle
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Plague Flail & Doomsday Bell
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing
- Artefact: The Endless Gift
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
Sorcerer (120)
- Artefact: Muttergrub
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Great-Bray Shaman (100)

Battleline
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
20 x Centigors (320)
30 x Bestigors (300)

Behemoths
Ghorgon (200)
Ghorgon (200)

Battalions
Pestilent Throng (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155

[Kamose]

Good morning, beasties!  So I've playing around with my BoC a lot lately and trying to figure out where to expand the army, particularly Heroes.  I'm not focused on being competitive but I enjoy hordes of infantry and really like the ambushing and summoning mechanics in our army.  I usually play smaller games (1000-1500pts) and my typical list is something like the following:

1 Beastlord 

2 Bray-Shamans

20 Ungor Raiders

20 Bestigors

20-30 Gors

A smattering of Chariots or Razorgors

Desolating Brayherd Battalion

So with that in mind, what Brayherd Heroes do people usually bring?  Do I have enough?  Beastlord for General or Bray-Shaman? Any suggestions for Command Traits?

Are multiple Beastlords worth it?  I've been running him with Oracle of the Dark Tongue and the Banshee Blade because I enjoy the combo potential (and he did kill 400pts of Bloodbound by himself that one time! 👍).  Does anyone have any suggestions for alternate Beastlord models?  I have the GW one and he's nice enough but my opponents keep confusing him for a particularly short and scrawny Gor.

How many Bray-Shamans is too many?  I've found that having two works well for their movement buff and I'd like more of that please!  I usually have one Bray-Shaman with the Knowing Eye.  Does anyone have any other suggestions for useful artifacts? 

However, their magic seems really hit-or-miss.  Their spells are quite short-ranged and they never survive past turn 2-3 unless they are so far back they can't do anything useful.  I do enjoy all of our Endless Spells and would like a bit more consistency casting those.

Thanks for the ideas and inspiration!

PS:  I'd like to keep it focused on Brayherd.  The Warherd and Thunderscorn models just don't it for me. 🐮

[The Decay]

Points are up, makes bulls a little more playable but they went pretty light on our buffs...thoughts?

[Kevin K]

Super surprised the battalions didn't drop.  Nurgle battalions had major drops that I thought were to match the new books.  Ours are still a bit high, though they weren't as bad as Nurgle

[Forehead]

Thanks for posting. The major point drops for our big bulls is welcomed!

[ColsBols]

Omg where are these posted?

[relic456]

2 minutes ago, ColsBols said:

Omg where are these posted?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/5335ef41.pdf

[tupavko]

It's better than nothing but in terms of being competitive nothing has changed.

Most battalions are still worthless (warherd, thunderscorn etc...)because of a huge point cost.

Warherd has some major point drops, but still, a bad warscroll does not become a good one by just dropping the points. All warherd units are still super squishy things that miss a role in the army. Bullgors have to fight for space with bestigors for punching and dragon ogors for tankiness and they lose in both cases. bastigors are much better to fit the roll of glass canons as well as objective grabbers (they hit stronger, synergies better and are a lot faster)...

Now don't get me wrong, it's still better than nothing but, is not even a half-success, cause warherds remain bad units (except maybe a Ghorgon which is ok).

[Maddpainting]

Well we got 1/2 the updated points we needed, at least for that. I am indeed happy for the ones that did get them, makes them in a much more desirable place, at the same times makes Dragon Ogres and Jabber even less desirable.

[Maddpainting]

41 minutes ago, Kevin K said:

Super surprised the battalions didn't drop.  Nurgle battalions had major drops that I thought were to match the new books.  Ours are still a bit high, though they weren't as bad as Nurgle

Yeah Thunderscorn Stormherd is one of the worst battalions in the game. Cool its a 1 drop if you go all dragons, but it does nothing for them at all.

[Forehead]

Surely the summoning points table needs updating too. Is this likely to happen?

[ColsBols]

well I just bought and painted 9 bullgors so I am super psyched

[decker_cky]

13 minutes ago, Forehead said:

Surely the summoning points table needs updating too. Is this likely to happen?

Not today.

30 minutes ago, tupavko said:

It's better than nothing but in terms of being competitive nothing has changed.

Most battalions are still worthless (warherd, thunderscorn etc...)because of a huge point cost.

Warherd has some major point drops, but still, a bad warscroll does not become a good one by just dropping the points. All warherd units are still super squishy things that miss a role in the army. Bullgors have to fight for space with bestigors for punching and dragon ogors for tankiness and they lose in both cases. bastigors are much better to fit the roll of glass canons as well as objective grabbers (they hit stronger, synergies better and are a lot faster)...

Now don't get me wrong, it's still better than nothing but, is not even a half-success, cause warherds remain bad units (except maybe a Ghorgon which is ok).

I think you could legitimately take ghorgons as your hammers with the new price tag. 

Cygors are still a mish mash, but at least they're a cheap mish mash. 10 pts per wound means they're not squishy - kind of normal resilience per points. They do a lot of things, nothing particularly well, but in a world full of small support units they could surprise. 

One thing I've learned recently regarding piling in is that you can always pile in if you charged, even if nobody is nearby. That means  multi charges can be used to hit back line units after smashing through a screen. With 6" pile in, you could probably do some unexpected damage to your opponent's screened units. Overall nothing special still, but worth knowing.

Edited December 16, 2019 by decker_cky

[Maddpainting]

I have played a Ghorgon and Cygon in high end tournaments, the Cygon has always done better for me. But they both were not comp units at all, i just took them b.c mine are painted well and was going for painting points.

With them being 40pts cheaper, in darkwalkers i can see them being good, +1 to hit when ambushing with a hero, along with raiders, you can really put the hurt on something.