AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Maddpainting]

Your unit needs to be within their territory.

[Forehead]

Thanks for the prompt response, shame it wasn't the answer I hoped for 

[muggins]

Hey everyone, I have a question about Grashrak, keywords, and unit names. I thought I had it down but it appears I don't.

I want to use Grashrak because his spell is just great, and he seems clearly better than regular Great Bray Shamans. I usually play Gavespawn. From what I've read, I can still use him in Gavespawn even though he has the Allherd keyword, he just doesn't get any Gavespawn abilities / benefits. That's fine.

I also want to use Desolating Beastherd battalion. It requires this:

He has this keyword:

He doesn't have the unit name "Great Bray Shaman". 

From reading the core rulebook, it appears he doesn't fulfill the battalion requirement. 

Quote

 

"The organisation section of a battalion lists the titles or keywords for the units it can or must include. If an entry is the title of a unit, any unit with that title can be used (you can ignore sub-headers under the title unless they are included in the entry for the unit). Understrength units (pg 238) cannot be used as part of a warscroll battalion.

If the entry for a unit is a KEYWORD, then any unit with that keyword can be used (including any units that you assign a keyword to)."

 

Since the battalion requirement is not a KEYWORD, he doesn't fulfill that. Ok, I can live with it, I probably won't bring him.

The one inconsistency I've found is this - when I use bestigors in a list with a Great Bray Shaman or Beastlord, they're Battleline.

This works in Azyr just fine. When I add Grashrak and make him my general, to me, Bestigors should not be battleline. That is a unit name above, not a keyword. But they do become battleline in Azyr when I make him my general. Is this just a bug, or an inconsistency in the rules, or am I going crazy?

Last - if I take him as the general, and I use Gavespawn, he can't take the command trait - does that invalidate him as a general choice in Gavespawn?

Sorry for all the questions, just confusing to me.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by muggins

[Maddpainting]

The webpage version doesn't make bestigors battleline.  Both are know to be wrong from time to time. Send them an email.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

I know from asking that Gnashrak doesn't count as a Great Bray-Shaman for Depraved Drove. They said that the battalion requires warscrolls, mot keywords.

[dirkdragonslayer]

21 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

The webpage version doesn't make bestigors battleline.  Both are know to be wrong from time to time. Send them an email.

Yeah, the apps and websites can be wrong time to time, the people who make them are still human. I know for Gloomspite there is a an error on Warscroll Builder where any Loonboss makes Squig Hoppers a Battleline choice, not just the Loonbosses with Squigs like it’s supposed to.

Edited October 30, 2019 by dirkdragonslayer

[muggins]

Thanks all. I do realize there are errors once in a while, just wanted to make sure all the info I've heard is correct.

[ColsBols]

Hey fellow beastmen, I have a couple questions.

Can you use the ghorgon's chomping ability to force units to break coherency? 

Do you like Tzaangors? what role do you see them playing in a BOC army? I ran them for the first time in 2x10 and they were not nearly as killy as i thought they'd be with all those attacks

Which units do you prefer to have in ambush and which do you have start on the table? Especially thinking about big blobs of 20 bestigors and Enlightened on discs. 

In your experience, is it better to ambush in and try for a 9" charge or start farther away and threaten?

 

[Sauriv]

23 minutes ago, ColsBols said:

Hey fellow beastmen, I have a couple questions.

Can you use the ghorgon's chomping ability to force units to break coherency? 

*snip*

In your experience, is it better to ambush in and try for a 9" charge or start farther away and threaten?

1. Swallow Whole ability: yes! You target a model so it's up to you to choose one, if that would break coherency for your opponent, tough luck, that person will have to play better next time. Remember that the ability happens after attacks being made meaning he can be out of range if he kills too much. 

2. I have stopped using ambush, its too easy for your opponent to play around if you have to drop them turn 1. I rely on speed and I like to play with cogs as well. 

[Chaos Shepard]

I find that I always ambush the same 3 units every game, a unit of 40 Ungor Raiders, 10 Bestigors, and a Beastlord with Mutating Gnarlblade. I try to be aggressive with the Raiders striking at a weaker flank. The Beastlord sits inside the Raider within 2 to 3 inchs from the edge to really punish any would be chargers. The Bestigors usually ambush near by to counter charge anything that gets close, alternatively i will try for an ambush charge if my opponent has a relatively soft isolated unit or to go sit on an isolated objective.

[ColsBols]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Shepard said:

I find that I always ambush the same 3 units every game, a unit of 40 Ungor Raiders, 10 Bestigors, and a Beastlord with Mutating Gnarlblade. I try to be aggressive with the Raiders striking at a weaker flank. The Beastlord sits inside the Raider within 2 to 3 inchs from the edge to really punish any would be chargers. The Bestigors usually ambush near by to counter charge anything that gets close, alternatively i will try for an ambush charge if my opponent has a relatively soft isolated unit or to go sit on an isolated objective.

that's a great tip on the beastlord, I've been wondering how best to use him since he's squishy but can put out so much damage

[Chaos Shepard]

Just be cause of any enemy's with 2-3" reach, once had my beastlord shocked to death by eels.

[BarfAtTheMoon]

On 10/29/2019 at 10:49 AM, muggins said:

Hey everyone, I have a question about Grashrak, keywords, and unit names. I thought I had it down but it appears I don't.

I want to use Grashrak because his spell is just great, and he seems clearly better than regular Great Bray Shamans. I usually play Gavespawn. From what I've read, I can still use him in Gavespawn even though he has the Allherd keyword, he just doesn't get any Gavespawn abilities / benefits. That's fine.

I also want to use Desolating Beastherd battalion. It requires this:

He has this keyword:

He doesn't have the unit name "Great Bray Shaman". 

From reading the core rulebook, it appears he doesn't fulfill the battalion requirement. 

Since the battalion requirement is not a KEYWORD, he doesn't fulfill that. Ok, I can live with it, I probably won't bring him.

The one inconsistency I've found is this - when I use bestigors in a list with a Great Bray Shaman or Beastlord, they're Battleline.

This works in Azyr just fine. When I add Grashrak and make him my general, to me, Bestigors should not be battleline. That is a unit name above, not a keyword. But they do become battleline in Azyr when I make him my general. Is this just a bug, or an inconsistency in the rules, or am I going crazy?

Last - if I take him as the general, and I use Gavespawn, he can't take the command trait - does that invalidate him as a general choice in Gavespawn?

Sorry for all the questions, just confusing to me.

 

Grashrak does additionally get the Gavespawn ability, according to the way our particular greatfrays work. 

Quote, directly from the Battletome:  "If your army is a Beasts of Chaos army, you can give it a Greatfray keyword.  All BEASTS OF CHAOS units in your army gain that keyword."

So he would have the Allherd keyword AND the Gavespawn keyword if he was a starting part of your army.  

[Chaos Shepard]

I have noticed this myself but I would not count on this to remain this way. When our book was written, it had no such named characters so the wording did not have to account for them. It is hard to argue Rules as Intended vs. Rules as Written, as "Intentions" (or the interpretations of "Intentions") much like "Opinions" can very wildly, so take the following with a grain of salt, because it is my opinion that if they had intended Grashrak to seamlessly slot into any Greatfray, they would not have given him a specific Greatfray to use as a Keyword. From this point Rules as Intended deviates even further. The most strict interpretation would be that Grashrak can only be played in Allherd armies, however, based on examples in other books Heros from other sub-factions can be used with the caveat that the don't gain the benefits of the sub-faction used. 

[tupavko]

I feel an urgent need to share with you braying people my immense scorn and hatred for the Game Designers over at Nottignham.... 

How on earth an Ogor bite is more accurate/dangerous than a Bullgor's horns???? 

I know that all of you hated those Ironguts as soon as you saw their profile and compared them to our Murder Cows. To make things even worse they have the same price (160 for 3 the bullgors and 220 for ironguts for 4).

Ok thanks, now that I shared my immense pain I feel much better.

I just miss my murder cows (...)and nothing more from the past

[walheim]

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos

Leaders
Beastlord (90)
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)

Battleline
30 x Bestigors (300)
40 x Ungors (200)
- Shortspears & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
30 x Bestigors (300)

Units
40 x Ungor Raiders (320)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)
1 x Chaos Spawn (50)

Battalions
Desolating Beastherd (150)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 192
 

 

Hey guys! What do you think about this as a pure beastmen list?  What would you change? How would you equip heroes and who do i go for as general? Thank you!

[Forehead]

I'd get the wildfire taurus endless spell in. The mortal wounds are nice but the additional effect of all units that take wounds having to fight last can be a great way to protect yourself from losing bodies.

[walheim]

22 minutes ago, Forehead said:

I'd get the wildfire taurus endless spell in. The mortal wounds are nice but the additional effect of all units that take wounds having to fight last can be a great way to protect yourself from losing bodies.

Change shaggoth to a third shaman and bring the spell?

[Forehead]

Not sure as Shaggy can at least fight a little and his own spell is pretty good. Maybe drop the spawn, unless you're running Gavespawn or one chariot.

[walheim]

19 minutes ago, Forehead said:

Not sure as Shaggy can at least fight a little and his own spell is pretty good. Maybe drop the spawn, unless you're running Gavespawn or one chariot.

Whats gacespawn?

[Forehead]

One of the three greatfrays you can choose for your army. They give you some extra abilities at the expense of deciding your artifacts and command trait. Gavespawn is the one that means your dead heroes turn into chaos spawn and the spawns can buff your units. The artifact is wonderful too. 

[The Decay]

Hello fellow Beastlords, this is my first post on the forum as I contemplate dipping my toes/hooves into AoS. I've played a ton of Warhammer 40k across editions so I have a decent amount of experience with table top games.

I'm hoping to get some feedback on the below list, I haven't bought any models yet so it's definitely just something to work towards. I love the Bullgor models so they're hopefully decent enough to keep in.
I love the idea of combo-ing the 60 outflanking Raiders with Gavespawn to get a ton of bow hits on something to crumble a weak flank.

I also don't know how well leadership modifiers work in AoS, the Flock seems fun and I had the extra 30pts, thoughts on that as a spell? especially going first and pushing them forward to further combo with the Raiders?

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Beasts of Chaos) [2,000pts] +++
Uncategorised +Herdstone+
Leader +Doombull [120pts]: 5. Champion’s Doomcloak
+ Battalion +Battalion: Desolating Beastherd [1,850pts]: Desolating Beastherd
. Beastlord: General, Mutating Gnarlblade, Unravelling Aura
. Bestigors: 2x 10 Bestigors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns
. Bestigors: 2x 10 Bestigors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns
. Bullgors: 2x 3 Bullgors, Bullgor Great Axes, Warherd Banner Bearer, Warherd Drummer
. Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield
. Great Bray-shaman: 1. Viletide
. Great Bray-shaman: 2. Vicious Stranglethorns
. Ungor Raiders: 3x 10 Ungor Raiders, Banner bearers, Brayhorns
. Ungor Raiders: 3x 10 Ungor Raiders, Banner bearers, Brayhorns
. Ungors: 10 Ungors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Ungor Blade+ Allegiance +Allegiance
. Beasts of Chaos: Gavespawn+ Game Options +Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost
+ Malign Sorcery +Endless Spell: Ravening Direflock [30pts]++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

[Kazimer]

The Flock is actually not best used as a leadership debuff, but instead as a moving wall. What you can do with it, is place it in front of your own guys (say your herdstone Shaman or your bowmen) and when need be, just move up to the flock to make it fly away, further up the board to keep protecting you from charges.

I'd say the Gors are fine, but weak overall. You're better off going for some Ungors, or a Chariot. It's unfortunate, but their best use is literally just to shield wall against other aggressive armies, due to their shields being really good. 10 wounds and a 4+ for 70 points is very efficient, but their melee is pretty awful.

Leadership mods in AoS do work, and they can work to hilarious effect vs elite armies like Ogors.

 

And lastly, do watch out about Bullgors. They hit like a ton of bricks, but they die just as fast. You'll find that's the case for a lot of your army, actually. In my games, i've won based purely on the fact that Beasts can hold objectives really early, and really well. They don't slaughter as well as Khorne, they aren't as resilient as Nurgle, and they don't do hordes as well as Skaven. Play to your strengths, which primarily is your raw speed.

[peasant]

Anyone has used bullgors in khorne faction?

[Kazimer]

3 hours ago, peasant said:

Anyone has used bullgors in khorne faction?

I have, they're probably the best faction to use them in, especially since you get the battlion's reroll stuff.