AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[decker_cky]

Another point with the chimera and cogs is that they boost it to 12" move and +4 to charge on a flyer, so if you go second theres a good chance you'll have a first turn charge without any trickery.

One thing worth doing with low drops is having first turn charge options that you don't necessarily make use of. Depending on your opponents army and deployment, you can still go 2nd after you deploy aggressively.

[Great Bray Tom]

Don’t forget you still need to be within 12” of an enemy unit to attempt a charge even with the +4. So if the closest enemy unit is 13 inch away you can’t attempt to roll a 9+ because that unit can’t declare a charge.

i didn’t know this until a judge/ref pointed it out to me.

[Myrdin]

Ok so the Chimera wouldn't get a cover bonus. But still what about the part where you would use a different monster like Gorghon for example to cover the LoS ?

I mean if bigger part of the model was obscured than visible by a different monster sized model,  would that apply ?
How do you guys deal with these things in your groups ? For us its fairly gentlemanly most of the times so usually the opponents can decide whether this or that are acceptable. In this case depending on the angle from which the LoS would be drawn, if only some parts of it were to be seen (wings, tail and such) I think most of the players here would agree that sure, its not a clear LoS.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Myrdin

[decker_cky]

No cover, but if you sit the chimera behind LoS blocking terrain or a mega cylinder monster most things couldn't target it.

[Kazimer]

What sort of units would make for a good Beasts of Chaos chariot conversion? Im thinking of using the Gorebeast Slaves to Darkness one, and just slapping some spare Gors atop of it. Same price, but with a plastic kit

[BarfAtTheMoon]

6 hours ago, Kazimer said:

What sort of units would make for a good Beasts of Chaos chariot conversion? Im thinking of using the Gorebeast Slaves to Darkness one, and just slapping some spare Gors atop of it. Same price, but with a plastic kit

I've done 2 using the old orc boar chariot, minus the orcs and plus an ungor driver and a bestigor rider.  Looks pretty good with some converting of the boars to be a little more chaosy.  And it's plastic too, and about the same size as the actual tuskgor chariots as well as fitting the "cobbled together" aesthetic.

[Kazimer]

If only if were still a kit thats around

[Myrdin]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:12 PM, BarfAtTheMoon said:

I've done 2 using the old orc boar chariot, minus the orcs and plus an ungor driver and a bestigor rider.  Looks pretty good with some converting of the boars to be a little more chaosy.  And it's plastic too, and about the same size as the actual tuskgor chariots as well as fitting the "cobbled together" aesthetic.

Same here. I got 3 of the orc ones, 2 scratch build ones and one of the old metal Beastmen Chariots, where the Bestigor looks the same as normal gors, only with a two handed axe, and both of them are about the scale of a plastic ungor rather than the Gors and Bestigors most of us are used to 😛 

As for the crew for the crew I have 3x the good old Khazzrak with his whip as the driver. Managed to fish em up cheap and since Khazzrak as is is now not playable I found the miniature to be of great use driving the chariots instead. Though he takes a bit more space due to his pose, so fitting in another miniature is kinda hard on the orc chariots (the scratch build ones are nice and wide).

[BarfAtTheMoon]

I also like the idea i'd seen a few times, which has a bestigor and/or an ungor riding a converted mournfang.  My issue is that I feel like I'd want to add a platform for the goats to stand on, rather than having them sit.  Sitting is not a position I see gorkin ever being in haha.

Anyone ever done that?  I can't find any pictures of anything done that way, but I'm sure it exists.

Edited October 9, 2019 by BarfAtTheMoon

[Myrdin]

18 hours ago, BarfAtTheMoon said:

I also like the idea i'd seen a few times, which has a bestigor and/or an ungor riding a converted mournfang.  My issue is that I feel like I'd want to add a platform for the goats to stand on, rather than having them sit.  Sitting is not a position I see gorkin ever being in haha.

Anyone ever done that?  I can't find any pictures of anything done that way, but I'm sure it exists.

Mierce Miniatures, have a few miniatures of Beastmen riding Razorgors (also their razorgors are very very nice looking, been using the unmounted version of these for Razorgors myself) if you are looking for something like that.

The way I used them before I got enough chariots was, instead of a second rider, the Gor was placed on the base. I gave him a spear and a horn, making him something like a huntsman. Similar to how foresters and hunters used to be forerunners for nobles, tracking down the prey and then leading the nobles to it for them to hunt it.

[Maddpainting]

After playing forbidden Power campaign, I WISH WE HAD A RUN AND CHARGE RELIC!!!!

My Doombull with the Run and charge relic is so fun to play, always hated playing him b.c it takes 2-3 turns to do anything, but now! Its 1-2 turns lol, always on turn 2 without trying. So fun.

I have 2 Doombulls, 1 is made with Wings/Cloud for the Thermalrider Cloak, in forbidden power it is up to +6" movement, Fly, Run and charge, most fun i had with him yet, he is basically a Missile and its lovely.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Maddpainting

[bonhommes_]

Quick question about the Brayherd Shaman’s Devolve spell. When it says that each enemy model targeted with the spell ends its move as close as possible to my nearest unit, does that mean up to 3” away of my unit so as to not be in combat? Or to move it physically as close as possible, even if that bring it into combat with my unit  (i.e. within 3” if the 2D6 roll was high enough)?

Similar question for the Gavespawn’s Gift of Morghur ability. Does setting up the model anywhere  within 6” of my hero mean I can set it up such such that it is in combat with an enemy unit within range (i.e. within 3” of it)? Even if that enemy unit wasn’t previously in combat?

Thanks in advance!

[Maddpainting]

The gavespawn one you can place it within 3", the 3" rule is only for movement

ENEMY UNITS AND RETREATS: "When you make a normal move for a model, no part of the move can be within 3" of an enemy unit"

What is a normal move?
NORMAL MOVES "Moves made in the movement phase are referred to as normal moves, to differentiate them from charge moves (made in the charge phase) and pile-in moves (made in the combat phase). A model making a normal move can move a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move characteristic shown on its warscroll."

B.c Devolve is not a normal move (just like many other different moves odd moves in the hero phase) they can move within 3" of enemy units.

Here is a faq clarifying it

Q: Some abilities allow a model to make a move out of sequence (in the hero phase, for example), or to make a specific type of move (a ‘6" retreat move’, for example). Can I run when I make these moves? A: You can only run if the ability refers to making a ‘normal move’ (which includes any move made ‘as if it were the movement phase’) and the ability doesn’t specify the distance of the move. Note that the restrictions that apply to normal moves (not moving within 3" of the enemy, and having to retreat if they start within 3" of the enemy) also apply to normal moves made in any other phase. Also note that the increase to the unit’s Move characteristic for running only applies to that move. So, for example, if the ability said ‘This unit can make a normal move’ the unit could run and could not move within 3" of the enemy unless it retreats, and if it said ‘This unit can move D6".’ then it could not run but could move within 3" of the enemy.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Maddpainting

[bonhommes_]

Thanks Maddpainting, very appreciated!

And for the Spawn generated via the Gavespawn’s Gift of Morghur ability, does it get to attack once it is generated, i.e. as soon as my hero is slain (assuming it is in range)? Or only in the combat phase of my next turn?

Very excited to run me some Gavespawn 🤘

Edited October 11, 2019 by bonhommes_

[Maddpainting]

27 minutes ago, bonhommes_ said:

Thanks Maddpainting, very appreciated!

And for the Spawn generated via the Gavespawn’s Gift of Morghur ability, does it get to attack once it is generated, i.e. as soon as my hero is slain (assuming it is in range)? Or only in the combat phase of my next turn?

Very excited to run me some Gavespawn 🤘

Yes, as long as it is still in the combat phase, it will follow all normal rules for that phase.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Ajmaus]

So I believe we have misinterpreted the Cygors Soul-eater rule and he might be better than we have have him credit for.

I believe how his ability is worded it always triggers the mortal wound and the heal regardless of successfully unbinding.

Soul-eater: this model can attempt to unbind 2 spells in the enemy hero phase in the same manor as a wizard. In addition, each time it unbinds a spell, the caster suffers 1 mortal wound and you can heal 1 wound allocated to this model.

Contrary to the Curseling

Vessel of Chaos: Each time a cursling successfully unbinds an enemy spell, he can immediately attempt to cast it himself even though it is your opponents hero phase. If this spell is cast, your opponent cannot attempt to unbind it.

 

The rule book even uses the language for unbinds a spell to reference just rolling the dice not successfully rolling higher.

 

While this probably needs a faq I think it is a an interesting mechanic basically makes it work more likely me a bonus to unbind which is how it's worded and I think maybe it was intended

[Maddpainting]

No, thats not how spell casting and unbinding, and how the Cygor works.

From the BRB 
"If a spell is cast, the opposing player can choose one of their Wizards that is within 30" of the caster to attempt to unbind the spell"

So if a spell is not casted you cannot attempt to unbind

Cygor rules
"each time it unbinds a spell,"

If a spell isn't casted he can't unbind, if he didnt unbind the spell, he doesnt trigger the 1 MW 1 heal.
 

[decker_cky]

I think @Ajmaus  is asking whether the wording supports the mortal wound + heal on any unbind attempt. 

Looking at the wording in the main rulebook, it's kind of a mess:

Quote

 

In order to cast a spell, first say which spell the wizard is going to attempt to use (it must be one they know). To cast the spell, roll 2D6. If the total is equal to or greater than the casting value of the spell, the spell is successfully cast.

If a spell is cast, the opposing player can choose one of their Wizards that is within 30" of the caster to attempt to unbind the spell before its effects are applied. To unbind a spell, roll 2D6. If the roll beats the roll used to cast the spell, then the spell is not successfully cast. Only one attempt can be made to unbind a spell.

 

I think the intention is clear - unless the wizard (or cygor) succeeds in rolling higher than the roll used to cast the spell, the spell is not unbound. But its certainly not tight wording. 

[Maddpainting]

How is that a mess? Its very clear and very tight, what part is not tight to you?

To show you another way to view it

Quote

If (castSpell)
{
           If (unbindChant)
           {
                  spell = false; //fails
                  casterHealth = -1;
                  if (unbinderHealth != maxHealth)
                  {
                       unbinderHealth = +1;
                  }
           }
           else
           {
                  spell = true; //sucessful
           }
}
else
{
           spell = false; //fails
}

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Ajmaus]

The only point is with out using assumptions on verbiage the game does use language   to specifically call out successful unbind even on AOS 2.0 models such as the malefic maelstrom and if the model said the cygor triggered on a unsuccessful unbind everyone would agree it was only when it failed the roll.  We have an assumption that unbind means successful but in all other GW cases with a similar rule it uses either "Successful Unbind" or "don't unbind and the spell is automatically unbound".

So in the games dictionary their is a specification that unbind is more than just being successful at rolling the dice.  

I just want them to clear it up so the game can go to similar language between war-scrolls that tightens the rules. Also it gives them a chance to change it if they think that the mechanic isnt to strong anyway they can clearly state "When this model attempts to unbind X happens." Which is what I think was intended after reading every other model that triggers something on unbinding.. The Cygor is the unique outlier even if you compare it to new books like khorne.

 

[Maddpainting]

The point is, "each time it unbinds a spell" not "each attempt to unbind a spell" those are different things. B.c there are also rules that says "on each attempt".  Different rules will say attempt and different ones will not say attempt, those are different rules and situations. Just b.c Rule form unit "A" says "on an attempt" doesn't mean rules from unit "R" follows those rules.  Some units get rules for attempts, some do not.

Look at the Cygor's 1st rule
"This model can attempt to unbind 2 spells in the enemy hero phase in the same manner as a Wizard."

Right there it has attempt in the first rule for the model, so its very clear that you don't get the +1MW +1 heal for an "attempt" but only on an actual unbinding of a spell.

To make it very clear that an Unbind means the spell is not successful and doesn't need to be stated, read the rules from the BRB

"....the caster to attempt to unbind the spell before its effects are applied. To unbind a spell, roll 2D6. If the roll beats the roll used to cast the spell, then the spell is not successfully cast."

Edited October 13, 2019 by Maddpainting

[BarfAtTheMoon]

Getting off of this track, I've been really trying to find a way to make Warherds viable, at least at a semi-competitive level.  So far that's been pretty hard - I've seen many attempted Warherds lists in tournaments do very badly, I'm sure through no failings of their players.  Are there non-warherd units we can add in to make the bulls excel?   Does Grashrak's Despoilers do anything to make Warherds worth taking over any other of the normal BoC must-takes or specialists? 

Edited October 16, 2019 by BarfAtTheMoon

[Maddpainting]

You need Re-rolls for them, take them in Khorne battalion, and also any added plus to hit. The new Shaman Grashrak Fellhoof is good.

Take 2 Shamans, 2 Doombulls, 1 Doombull with the Gnarlblade or w/e greatfray relic. Then you take the 2nd Doombull give it  Ghyran relic Ghyrstrike, this gives him +1 to hit and to wound, this is a very strong relic for a 1 damaging hero (making it 2+ to hit and to wound, with re-rolls he wouldnt miss anything doing 9 damage on average), the Gnarlblade bull could do 15 damage. Once you have that, 3-4 units of Bulls, and take bestigors,  take some centigors too, to make sure you have movement, within 9" buffer, etc... Start with 1 spawn if you can, and +1 CP. 2 units of 3, and 1 larger unit is fine, i wouldnt do more than 1 unit with more than 3. Bravery is a problem for them.

Alternatively, take NO greatfrays, or take Cogs with Darkwalkers, bulls are +1 to charge, you could just ambush 3 units of 3 with a Doombull with the trait Re-roll all charge roles for all units within 12", with a Tzaangor Shaman + cogs,,thats +3 to charge. and the bull relic can be thermalrider cloak for Fly (or +2 to charge relic, or w/e you want). I like the idea of Khorne + Cogs + Darkwalkers, shooting armies wont be able to touch your 4 units, the other units are bestigors, ungors, centgors, etc.. all the fast moving units on the table to claim objectives, and then you hammer hitting a flank stupidly hard. with cogs you can hit any angle. You can also spend a CP later to teleport units.

[Sauriv]

I'm not really playing BoC at the moment but I'm soon gonna be pick them of the shelf. The thing I'll be testing is Darkwalkers with cogs for ambushing my hammers (bulls) with an easy charge, and with that protecting them from harm. 

Previously I've played alot of gavespawn but the bulls are kind of slow and are also easy for the opponent to kill before they manage to do something. 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Sauriv
Deleted some misleading stuff

[Maddpainting]

3 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

You can't combine Khorne and greatfrays! You lose all alligiance abilities belonging to BoC if you play them in a god list. 

I'm not really playing BoC at the moment but I'm soon gonna be pick them of the shelf. The thing I'll be testing is Darkwalkers with cogs for ambushing my hammers (bulls) with an easy charge, and with that protecting them from harm. 

Previously I've played alot of gavespawn but the bulls are kind of slow and are also easy for the opponent to kill before they manage to do something. 

 

Khorne Battalion Brass Despoilers.........

Edited October 16, 2019 by Maddpainting