AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[decker_cky]

Nothing wrong with Ghorgons.  If you take a couple ghorgons (might as well, since you get them in your start collecting boxes), then I'd strongly consider babysitting them with a doombull, who can give them +1 to wound on key turns. A bray shaman with titanic fury is a good idea in a list like that too. 

In terms of summoning, you're generally talking about a turn 3 summon for any of the big monsters, which limits their impact. If you want a similar setup that impacts the table earlier, consider dark walkers greatfray which would allow you to ambush monsters on turn 1 or 2 (and later redeploy them). 

[Gdead909]

3 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Nothing wrong with Ghorgons.  If you take a couple ghorgons (might as well, since you get them in your start collecting boxes), then I'd strongly consider babysitting them with a doombull, who can give them +1 to wound on key turns. A bray shaman with titanic fury is a good idea in a list like that too. 

In terms of summoning, you're generally talking about a turn 3 summon for any of the big monsters, which limits their impact. If you want a similar setup that impacts the table earlier, consider dark walkers greatfray which would allow you to ambush monsters on turn 1 or 2 (and later redeploy them). 

Hmmm then maybe take the chaos spawn to give them extra attacks. Then they just need a screen. Ungors are our cheap bow chaff right. 

 

Thanks starting To see a list coming together

[decker_cky]

2 ghorgons, a shaman and a doombull are 620 pts. You need 3 battleline (ungors and bestigors cover you here - big and small units of either are great). You want a character who can hang out by the herdstone and some sacrifice fodder (ungors being the best value, which happens to cover your battleline). From there, there's a lot of options in the army (lots of solid units for personal flavour in the beastmen book).

I think ungor raiders are most popular as a larger unit for reroll, but they're solid screens too.

[Myrdin]

Honestly, with the changes to CP abilities I was thinking that Skyfires became much more viable now, despite their steep price.

6 of them with a Tzshaam  (Tzaan Shaman), gets you 3+ re-roll 1s to hit on their shooting. That sounds very painful on the paper considering their overall profile.

And with the price increase on Enlightened I think the dismounted version became a little bit more attractive. Imagine them tagging along with MSU Bestigors. 2" range has you covered and being slower than the disc version, they should draw less attention too.

[Maddpainting]

I tired a unit of 9 a couple times, very hit or miss still, sometimes it was so little damage it didnt matter, other times it felt about what 600pts should do. I decided its not worth it honestly. But they might do better for you.

[Gwendar]

Welp, I got into FeC before their update and.. long story short I don't really have interest in playing them any longer and am looking to sell them off. I want to replace them with BoC, which I should've just gone ahead with in the first place...

Anyway, what are the competitive lists looking like nowadays? I saw some leaving Desolating behind due to the new territory zones, but I also wonder how well Raiders would do without this. Are competitive, tournament focused lists still running 30-60 of them or has focus shifted more towards pure CC? I've seen some examples using Gavespawn + Depraved. With the activation wars continuing on, I assumed shooting of some variety was still an auto-include.

Just curious to get some ideas before I start list building and buying.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:40 PM, Gwendar said:

Welp, I got into FeC before their update and.. long story short I don't really have interest in playing them any longer and am looking to sell them off. I want to replace them with BoC, which I should've just gone ahead with in the first place...

Anyway, what are the competitive lists looking like nowadays? I saw some leaving Desolating behind due to the new territory zones, but I also wonder how well Raiders would do without this. Are competitive, tournament focused lists still running 30-60 of them or has focus shifted more towards pure CC? I've seen some examples using Gavespawn + Depraved. With the activation wars continuing on, I assumed shooting of some variety was still an auto-include.

Just curious to get some ideas before I start list building and buying.

I'm also curious. Would anyone be willing to give a quick rundown? There's the 1d4chan tactics page but they tend to be a little hit or miss with their AoS tactics.

[Maddpainting]

3-4 Heroes are a must
At least 2 Shamans
Either Doombull, Shaman on Disk, or Beastlord

Bestigors, Ungors, Raiders are all very good, you can do MSU of 10, or Max blocks of 30/40, its good to do a mix of some 10mans and some max units.
Raiders as 10mans can get free movement at the start, but as 40mans they can really do some good damage and are very fast, Bestigors as 10mans can  flank or are good at hitting small screens, they are more of a scaplel unit at 10man, at 30man you want to multi charge and whipe out a couple units, give them re-rolls and +1 attacks for sure. Ungors are basically out Goblins/Clan rats, high numbers of wounds for cheap with ok melee, some 10mans are a must, but also 1x40 can be very good. Optionally Centigors in 1x5 or 1x10 or even 2x5 can be good, if you are going that route you are a fast mobile army meant to take objectives, have raiders/bestigors doing the damage and then snake up centigors to take objectives, with 14+1+3+D6 movements they are very fast.

Tzaangor Enlighten on Disks are also very good, they are one of the most damaging units in the game for us. Give them Wild Rampage if you cant survive attack last, give them +1 attack via Gavespawn as well, and you can kill everything in the game just about. They are good in anysize unit, 3 mans, 6mans, 9man. It all depends on the rest of your army, what Greatfrey you are, and heroes you are playing with, 3 mans are great at spltting up and helping with threat/damage priorities and cant be over killed, but also dont get as much benefits from buffs/spells. 6mans are good b.c its not to many points into 1 unit, but 9mans can do the most damage in the game, you can easily kill everything int he game if you are buffed, or kill 2-3 units at once.

Another battleline able unit that "can" be competitive are Tzaangors (basically bestigors that are 2 wounds) tho you dont really want to play with 60-90 of them like you can with bestigors, 1 unit of 30 is the most you want, with a shaman, some spells on them, and the Bull, they are actually very good, with 9-12 of them having 2 saves and just wounds for the other weapons (their are 3 weapon profile guys) you have something like 18-22 wounds with 2 saves before your -1 rend 2 damage guys are even taking a hit.

Bullgors are... many peoples favorites, but the Tzaangors Enlighten on Disks are just better in almost everyway for the same points, but they do have 1 thing going for them, MW's. With Axes they can get re-roll 1's, with the Horns and a +1 to attacks, a unit of 6 has 42 then if you give them Wild Rampage (re-roll wounds) that on something (napkin math), with 25 total hits, thats 6 MW's and 14 -1 2D wounds with a few 1 damage wounds. In theory that thats 30 wounds to a 4+ save unit, but that requires a spell and a +1 attack ability, but b.c they can be good you'll still see them do well time to time, so it is an option, i just wouldnt go to crazy with them and take more than 1 unit.

A typical list will look like this a bit

Gavespawn or Allherd (gavespawn with Disks, allherd for some players)
Shaman
Shaman
Beastlord
Shaman on Disk

Ungors x10
Ungors x10
Ungors x40 or Bestigors x30
Raiders x40
Bestigors x10 (1-3 units)
Tzaangor Enlighten (1-3 units)
Optional; Tzaangors, more Bestigors, more Ungors, Centigors, bullgors

Battalion
Bull
+1CP
Edit: PS: Most comp lists are 4-6 drops, so if you can get lower thats good, also HoS with BoC are very strong, but you are playing out of the HoS book with almost all Boc and 2-3 HoS heroes.
 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Maddpainting
Spelling, added text at bottom

[decker_cky]

It's worth noting that beastmen battalions are generally pretty weak, but also very flexible, making it very easy to reduce your number of drops to 3 or less.

The flip side is that relying on battalions to minimize drops ignores a significant amount of the army (luckily, most of them best units are available in battalions). 

[peasant]

Amy luck with khornate bullgors lists?

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

If building a list for Depraved Drove, is it generally a better idea to play Hedonites Allegience with the battalion, or is it a case of "Beasts and Hedonites do different things but each has its strengths"?

Playing as Hedonites would cause me to lose out on the Allegiance abilities, and I think I might miss Ambush.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Thalassic Monstrosity
Condensed for brevity.

[FunkyPunk]

Trying to build a fun and vaguely competitive gavespawn list at the mo. I have skyfires from way back when they were horrid, and while they’re much less scary they can still pack a punch. Gavespawn extra attacks, additional rend and all refills makes for a very scary unit. I find coming out turn 3 after having sniped for a few turns can be really effective. Anyone had similar experiences? @Myrdin I see you’re on a similar wavelength. 

 

Would love some feedback on this list... Not looking for tournament winning but decent.

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn

Leaders
Beastlord (90)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura  
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade  
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Wild Rampage
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Artefact: The Knowing Eye  
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Vicious Stranglethorns
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy

Battleline
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)

Battalions
Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 135
 

Tzaangors are essentially the anvil, with a few chaff lines. Skyfires plink from behind until we’re ready to hit hard with Taurus and bestigors as support. Worried about lack of screens. Battalion is in as a one drop but is a big points sink. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by FunkyPunk

[Myrdin]

Honestly in this list I`d say that Gnarlblade BL is kinda unnecessary. I mean sure, its a cheap killing machine, but I think I would drop him and a unit of Bestigors and add either some Centigors or Chariots (since Razorgors are now obsolete due to the price hike, if for 10 more you can get a chariot) for chaff and objective capture purpose.

Then again I tend to play a slightly smaller format of 1500pts, and pretty much never use Predatory type Endless Spells, so take what I am saying with a pinch of salt.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Myrdin

[Maddpainting]

13 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Honestly in this list I`d say that Gnarlblade BL is kinda unnecessary. I mean sure, its a cheap killing machine, but I think I would drop him and a unit of Bestigors and add either some Centigors or Chariots (since Razorgors are not obsolete due to the price hike, if for 10 more you can get a chariot) for chaff and objective capture purpose.

Then again I tend to play a slightly smaller format of 1500pts, and pretty much never use Predatory type Endless Spells, so take what I am saying with a pinch of salt.

I disagree honestly, for 90pts, on a unit that can literally kill almost every 10 wound hero in the game, or at least take off 9-12 wounds on some, its a really good unit to scare your opponent. I also use mine turn 2-3, or 3-4 (When the herdstone is big enough to give -1 rend), -2 rend 3D, re-roll 1's and re-roll wounds vs a hero with 6 base attack is to hard to pass up. He has single handily won me games. Tho you really need that second -1 save, either herdstone or spell to hurt some like SCE's, Treelords, etc.. (anything with 3+ saves).

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Myrdin]

2 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

I disagree honestly, for 90pts, on a unit that can literally kill almost every 10 wound hero in the game, or at least take off 9-12 wounds on some, its a really good unit to scare your opponent. I also use mine turn 2-3, or 3-4 (When the herdstone is big enough to give -1 rend), -2 rend 3D, re-roll 1's and re-roll wounds vs a hero with 6 base attack is to hard to pass up. He has single handily won me games. Tho you really need that second -1 save, either herdstone or spell to hurt some like SCE's, Treelords, etc.. (anything with 3+ saves).

 

If your BL carrying a combat artifact lives long enough to properly get into action, then your opponent is doing something very very wrong (no offense to your opponents), or you are already in control of the game leaving no window for them to target him, in which case the game should be pretty much over by this point.

After most of  my opponents see what that thing is capable of, he gets similar "priority treatment" like a Gorghon does. Meaning he becomes a bullet/magic magnet. But unlike a Gorghon he doesnt have a Wound pool nearly big enough to soak it.

Am I saying its a bad choice ? Not even by a longshot, but the OP stated that there is a lack of chaff in that list, and my opinion in that particular list, I offered an opinion on how to free up some points to get that chaff.  You are talking about the BL in vacuum and out of context (the army list), as if I was saying BL with Gnarlblade is a bad option in general, which I of course didn't as this is simply not the case,

Technically he can also drop one of the bray shamans, but that will cost him mobility as I am believe currently they way the list flows one of them will be camping the Herdstone while the other will provide his movement aura to the main combat force, thus going to the front lines. 

**Admitedly its possible that the Tzsham will be camping the Herdstone with the SkyFire retinue close at hand, but while its possible due to their high speed and range,  its not the optimal use for the group, especially since you want to try and add more Tzaangors to you infantry block via magic. As such I simply dont see this being the case.... as interesting as it could be though.**

Currently the Shaman movement buff is an integral part of how BoC play, A Gnarlblade Beastlord, no matter how godly for those 90 points he gets.... is not (and again > keep the whole picture in mind. I am a huge fan of Beastlords in general, and am fairly pissed that they lost both the chariot mounts and the shield option since I had specifically kitbashed my Beastlord with a custom made shield.). 

I have no bone to pick with you, and I agree in general about what you said, but I have a dislike to being taken out of context and made to look as if I am claiming something, I do not, thus I had to follow up on it. Chers 

*** *** ***

Now in regards to the OPs lack of chaff : Another alternative > In case you want to keep all the characters, then dropping one of the 3 bestigor units and adding two single chariots could help with that as well. Especially since chariots do benefit from the shaman as well, making them a great chaff option (and units of 3-4 can serve also as a very potent roadblock with a solid save and comparatively cheep price for the large wound pool they come with at those numbers).

[Maddpainting]

 

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

If your BL carrying a combat artifact lives long enough to properly get into action, then your opponent is doing something very very wrong (no offense to your opponents), or you are already in control of the game leaving no window for them to target him, in which case the game should be pretty much over by this point.

Again, i have to disagrees with this part, but i do agree with "b.c he doesnt have chaff" Its only 90pts i still think its a 100% auto include into a Gavespawn army.  IMO what he doesnt need is to drop 1 unit of bestigors for 2 more Ungors, yes bestigors are fine, but he also has Tzaangors (bascially the same thing in the long term of things), that will get him 2 more units of chaff. Also if you cant keep him alive for two turns then you are the one with a problem. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Maddpainting

[The_Yellow_Sign]

5 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Honestly in this list I`d say that Gnarlblade BL is kinda unnecessary. I mean sure, its a cheap killing machine, but I think I would drop him and a unit of Bestigors and add either some Centigors or Chariots (since Razorgors are now obsolete due to the price hike, if for 10 more you can get a chariot) for chaff and objective capture purpose.

Then again I tend to play a slightly smaller format of 1500pts, and pretty much never use Predatory type Endless Spells, so take what I am saying with a pinch of salt.

 

Strongly disagree with this. A Gnarlblade-wielding Beastlord is a fantastic investment for 90 points. You can ambush him easily since he has such a tiny footprint and he can kill a lot of 200+ point heroes in one phase. Even if he doesn't get into combat, he then turns into a spawn and potentially locks a valuable piece in combat to waste a turn (or two if you tag a large unit on the flank).  

[FunkyPunk]

Thanks for the ideas guys. Got some time for gaming this weekend. Think I’ll try once as is, and once swapping the bestigors & ungors for 10 centigors and maybe a spawn.

the beastlord I think is a nice piece to have, he can hide easily and often there’s enough other targets to keep people busy. If he does die then he’s only 90 points and it’s no big deal. If he gets in, especially with the bull, he can do a lot of work and potentially buff a lot of other units near him. 

[Maddpainting]

2 hours ago, FunkyPunk said:

Thanks for the ideas guys. Got some time for gaming this weekend. Think I’ll try once as is, and once swapping the bestigors & ungors for 10 centigors and maybe a spawn.

the beastlord I think is a nice piece to have, he can hide easily and often there’s enough other targets to keep people busy. If he does die then he’s only 90 points and it’s no big deal. If he gets in, especially with the bull, he can do a lot of work and potentially buff a lot of other units near him. 

My 2 MVP's at adepticon last year was the BL with Gnarl blade and my 40man block of Ungor Raiders. Oddly the Enlighten on Disks didnt do to much, everyone instant hated them and it was hard to play with them.

[FunkyPunk]

19 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

My 2 MVP's at adepticon last year was the BL with Gnarl blade and my 40man block of Ungor Raiders. Oddly the Enlighten on Disks didnt do to much, everyone instant hated them and it was hard to play with them.

Yeah it’s a good point. Hard to put everything in. I could drop the battalion and some bestigors to fit them in. Or drop the skyfires, but I do like their damage potential and speed. 

[Popisdead]

On 8/26/2019 at 11:53 AM, decker_cky said:

Nothing wrong with Ghorgons.  

They are my heavy lifts.  a few turns a game they really pull their weight.  The other turns dice spiking makes them a tragedy.

On 8/26/2019 at 11:26 PM, Myrdin said:

 I was thinking that Skyfires became much more viable now, despite their steep price.

I've been thinking shooting in nearly all armies is more worth it given Slaanesh and FEC.

On 8/27/2019 at 3:40 PM, Gwendar said:

but I also wonder how well Raiders would do without this.

IMO you can't do wrong adding Raiders.  Even 30+ is still quite good.  

 

On 8/29/2019 at 9:23 AM, peasant said:

Amy luck with khornate bullgors lists?

I've had fun with them but they won't be winning tournaments.  If your aim is enjoy bloody bulls they'll do you right.

 

I wanted to ask if anyone knew if there was a big difference between the last two Blades of Khorne book?  Someone gave me their old copy to read but after reading the rules,.. have they changed much?  

 

Thanks kindly

[Popisdead]

What are people's thoughts on more than 30-40 Raiders?  I'm toying with converting my Glade Guard to Raiders with Ungor lower halves and running 60-90.

I feel 2 x 30 isn't a bad idea.  Might get some Mileage out of them when Kurnothi Aelves come out as well.

[Maddpainting]

My 1x 40man block is normally one of my MVP's for every game. IDK if i would do more than one 40 block tho, taking a couple 10 man units might be good too for the first 6" movement. That can be very powerful. However i do want to try 2x40 blocks, but IDK if the raider do enough damage for that, 1x40 normally can stay out of combat with my other ungors and bestigors running ahead.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Maddpainting
Added info

[Myrdin]

So just wondering if anyone here plays Warcry.

Maybe you could answer this for me coz I wasnt able to find the answer anywhere but, for the Chaos Warbands, that come pre-built, do you have to use them in the same composition they come in ? Or can you make your own customized warband, using some units, while skipping others ?

I know you can do your own warband with the other factions that got just the cards, to be Warcry compatible, but not sure about he chaos ones intended for the game from the get go.

[Maddpainting]

That's in the core rules, you can make w/e you want as long as you have a leader and you dont have more than 15 models. My Untamed beast is Leader, 2 Cats, Cat lady, Spear guy that is just Scorpion, and 4 of the cheap guys. My Unmade is the Leader, 2 of the Jumping guy with 2 daggers, and then 8 of the cheap spear guys.

A BoC conversion for Untamed Beast would be really easy and cool, use Gors and Bestigors for some of them and ungors for the little ones, Warhounds or Pigs for the Cat, etc..

Edited September 9, 2019 by Maddpainting