AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion

[Grdaat]

16 minutes ago, IrishCarBomb said:

First off, love your name!

But if you can purchase the Dwarves from Forgeworld (I know they are more expensive) then it will help to support the line and thus keep interest up for the army. I had to buy my two Deathshriekers from another site but supported Forgeworld and the LoA line with the rest of my purchases. If you are interested in the site where I bought the Deathshriker Rockets just PM me. 

It's hard justifying the extra money for FW models unless there's a guarantee it would lead to them updating the rules. They cost so much more and not everyone has the budget for it.

[Shaquilleoheal]

@ IrishCarBomb : thx bro ! u have pm

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Shaquilleoheal

[IrishCarBomb]

4 hours ago, Grdaat said:

It's hard justifying the extra money for FW models unless there's a guarantee it would lead to them updating the rules. They cost so much more and not everyone has the budget for it.

I get it, the cost can be a lot. But every backer helps to propel this army into the future. If everyone buys a generic version then there would be no reason for them to update the army. It has to make financial sense for them too. By playing LoA, we all have chosen an underserved yet clandestine army which comes with its pros and cons—price being one of the cons. 

[Grdaat]

Just now, IrishCarBomb said:

I get it, the cost can be a lot. But every backer helps to propel this army into the future. If everyone buys a generic version then there would be no reason for them to update the army. It has to make financial sense for them too. By playing LoA, we all have chosen an underserved yet clandestine army which comes with its pros and cons—price being one of the cons. 

Maybe if they updated the rules more people would buy them, like what happened in every other instance of them updating the rules for any army ever (except Tyranids in 7th edition).

It's not on the consumer to generate interest in the army. If GW isn't convinced by emails then there's nothing we can really do.

[eekamouse]

I agree that it's on GW to generate excitement....

Yet, buying knock-off miniatures and complaining about a lack of updates doesn't make a lot of sense either.

[Grdaat]

17 minutes ago, eekamouse said:

I agree that it's on GW to generate excitement....

Yet, buying knock-off miniatures and complaining about a lack of updates doesn't make a lot of sense either.

Buying knock-offs and complaining about a lack of updates are both consequences of GW's actions. Not much else you can do when you want to field something no longer in production, or already have a full army that loses most of its games thanks to power creep.

[Qrow]

I tend to by the forgeworld models because I like my army to look similar across the units where possible, and because I do use the Legion of Azgorh in tournaments. 

I admit, however, that I would have a larger number of models of the rules were kept in line with other allegiances.  Bull centaurs for example; I ideally would like 12 of them so I can run the execution herd as 6-3-3, but I can't justify buying 6 more with their current rules. Shar'tor as well, I am proxying him in matches because he is expensive as hell to buy and he cost too much to play regularly.

Outside of that, I have a large number of almost all other the other models. I would like to buy a skullcracker, but I think I will have to go through a recaster for that one.

[IrishCarBomb]

It kind of goes both ways. Most of us knew buying an FW army meant it wasnt going to get as much attention as the "mainstream" GW armies. And I understand the perspective that GW needs to generate the interest to some extent, which they could do a better job of (ie. updating rules, adding more LoA fluff, coming out with a new model(this alone would do wonders for the confidence in keeping the range)). BUT, if they aren't selling for whatever reason or they only marginally sell enough to keep the range alive then the updates and interest are going to wane. So it's kinda a catch22 - you could blame it on GW/FW but also on the consumers or lack there of. And my whole point is the pool of LoA players is small enough as it is, we need all interested parties supporting the line when they can.

I compare this situation somewhat to Tomb Kings. Great models, great fluff, and interesting and unique army. It wasn't a lack of input from GW, but the consumer spending wasn't there and so they dropped the line.

[IrishCarBomb]

11 hours ago, Qrow said:

I tend to by the forgeworld models because I like my army to look similar across the units where possible, and because I do use the Legion of Azgorh in tournaments. 

I admit, however, that I would have a larger number of models of the rules were kept in line with other allegiances.  Bull centaurs for example; I ideally would like 12 of them so I can run the execution herd as 6-3-3, but I can't justify buying 6 more with their current rules. Shar'tor as well, I am proxying him in matches because he is expensive as hell to buy and he cost too much to play regularly.

Outside of that, I have a large number of almost all other the other models. I would like to buy a skullcracker, but I think I will have to go through a recaster for that one.

I know what you mean about Shar'tor being expensive but I had to have the model and it is Awesome! I purchased the execution herd with my full army purchase and have plenty of centaurs to play around with. I knew going into it that their stats weren't the best but I had to have them because I loved the models. I just want to plop 9 or 12 of those down on the table if nothing more than for intimidation factor. At least until my opponent learns the army a bit.

[Grdaat]

6 hours ago, IrishCarBomb said:

It kind of goes both ways. Most of us knew buying an FW army meant it wasnt going to get as much attention as the "mainstream" GW armies. And I understand the perspective that GW needs to generate the interest to some extent, which they could do a better job of (ie. updating rules, adding more LoA fluff, coming out with a new model(this alone would do wonders for the confidence in keeping the range)). BUT, if they aren't selling for whatever reason or they only marginally sell enough to keep the range alive then the updates and interest are going to wane. So it's kinda a catch22 - you could blame it on GW/FW but also on the consumers or lack there of. And my whole point is the pool of LoA players is small enough as it is, we need all interested parties supporting the line when they can.

I compare this situation somewhat to Tomb Kings. Great models, great fluff, and interesting and unique army. It wasn't a lack of input from GW, but the consumer spending wasn't there and so they dropped the line.

I don't think you can equally split the blame when the price and updates are squarely on GW. It's up to them to determine how much something costs, or how many people need to show interest before they update the range.

This would be like putting part of the blame for why Horus Heresy started fading away on the consumer. The models were selling extremely well, some of their box sales even ended up being some of the fastest selling sets GW ever had, but then they took so long to get new stock in when they were sold out, or just didn't replace the old stock at all, that interest started dying out. The updates becoming more and more infrequent also played a big part (although that one could be partially blamed on an unfortunate death).

So even if LoA were selling like crazy I'm unsure if it would've made that much difference. FW have shown that they can take a very long time to get something back in stock, then the sales numbers for it still don't look good because people aren't able to buy it, and I think we'd get that different catch 22 where it doesn't matter how well or how little they're selling.

[Honk]

To be honest, I don’t think GDubs or Forgeworld have an internal logic to those things...

All this is massive speculation with too many unknown factors to really mean something.

I don’t have any sales-revenue numbers on the costs of keeping an army alive, but tomb kings or Bretons were very liked around here. Especially TK had a very diverse line, so there was an incentive to buy more after your necropolis knights with necrosphinx army was done, you maybe tried out some chariots...

same for 30k, it seems to be selling well, then it gets faded out.

And if something like that threatens internal armies from GW it’s twice as bad for some external range of minis.

only some options available:

1. play boring posterboys sigmarines or ultrasmurfs 
 

2. pray to your local deity, take the risk and prepare to get axed... 

[IrishCarBomb]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:21 AM, Honk said:

To be honest, I don’t think GDubs or Forgeworld have an internal logic to those things...

All this is massive speculation with too many unknown factors to really mean something.

I don’t have any sales-revenue numbers on the costs of keeping an army alive, but tomb kings or Bretons were very liked around here. Especially TK had a very diverse line, so there was an incentive to buy more after your necropolis knights with necrosphinx army was done, you maybe tried out some chariots...

same for 30k, it seems to be selling well, then it gets faded out.

And if something like that threatens internal armies from GW it’s twice as bad for some external range of minis.

only some options available:

1. play boring posterboys sigmarines or ultrasmurfs 
 

2. pray to your local deity, take the risk and prepare to get axed... 

I guess I went with the latter 😬 - I'm 3k points in now, no turning back!

...And all I am saying in regards to everything above -- Logic would have most believe the more a product is bought and supported by customers, the longer it is likely to remain available. Now, whether GW or FW abide by logic when making decisions is all up for debate.

[Qrow]

I think there is a chance we are over-thinking our lack of updates and attributing to malice or planned action that which could easily be explained by laziness and a lack of caring. There is honestly a good chance that the legion of azgorhs stagnation is simply due to GW not being bothered to look into our issues, rather than deliberately pushing new armies by holding old ones back.

It doesn't help that we are a forgeworld army as well, because there are way less LoA players than there are of other allegiances and most people are not aware that we have been skipped over for point adjustments for the past two years. There are a lot of players that are  not aware we are even a legitimate allegiance, including those that organise official tournaments.

Sadly, we don't have the same level of vocal players as other factions, so we are comparatively small in the grand scheme of AoS balance and struggle to get attention where needed. Still, I'll keep sending in battle reports and suggestions hoping that someone will latch onto them and push through some LoA changes in the next balance wave.

[Grdaat]

1 hour ago, IrishCarBomb said:

I guess I went with the latter 😬 - I'm 3k points in now, no turning back!

...And all I am saying in regards to everything above -- Logic would have most believe the more a product is bought and supported by customers, the longer it is likely to remain available. Now, whether GW or FW abide by logic when making decisions is all up for debate.

I think if there's anything we've learned from the Horus Heresy, it's that GW doesn't have much logic as to what they choose to pull from their shelves. Something can have amazing sales and still become unsupported.

[Honk]

4 hours ago, IrishCarBomb said:

I'm 3k points in now, no turning back!

 

Sounds great... just finished two new rocketlaunchers to shoot some people off the table

🥳🚀🚀🚀😈

[IrishCarBomb]

17 hours ago, Honk said:

Sounds great... just finished two new rocketlaunchers to shoot some people off the table

🥳🚀🚀🚀😈

Awesome! Are they original FW models or 3rd party? I purchased two as well (had to go 3rd party) but I haven't gotten around to assembling them yet. Too many other LoA models are being worked on right now.

[Honk]

Maaaaannn the caannnnoonnsss!!!

[IrishCarBomb]

23 hours ago, Honk said:

Maaaaannn the caannnnoonnsss!!!

Beautiful!

[eekamouse]

AoS is decidedly not mentioned at all here which is interesting... if not concerning: 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/29/the-forges-are-relit/

[Qrow]

1 hour ago, eekamouse said:

AoS is decidedly not mentioned at all here which is interesting... if not concerning: 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/29/the-forges-are-relit/

To my memory, forgeworld hasn't teased or released anything for AoS for a long time. So it makes sense that AoS isn't mentioned when they are talking about restarting weekly preorders, as they have no AoS preorders coming.

I'm more concerned about the forgeworld facebook page announcing they are a horus heresy specialty page now. To be fair, I have assumed the LoA was a completed line for a few years now, I just hope we at least start getting quality of life updates.

[FFJump]

31 minutes ago, Qrow said:

To my memory, forgeworld hasn't teased or released anything for AoS for a long time. So it makes sense that AoS isn't mentioned when they are talking about restarting weekly preorders, as they have no AoS preorders coming.

I'm more concerned about the forgeworld facebook page announcing they are a horus heresy specialty page now. To be fair, I have assumed the LoA was a completed line for a few years now, I just hope we at least start getting quality of life updates.

I wouldn't look too much into the Facebook thing. Forgeworld is still making new Blood Bowl, Necromunda, and now Aeronatuica Imperialis models, the final of which was in the pre-order preview today. Those aren't covered by a HH page now either. Then again, might be a sign all those and anything AoS or Old World related will have a connection to Warhammer Forge (which also used to be the name of the fantasy branch of Forgeworld) whenever that's fully revealed.

Sent an email too regarding Chaos Dwarf rules updates. Funnily enough, I sent it before I even read this thread and saw other people were sending emails! Hopefully there's more people sending emails like that too.

[Charly2912]

As someone said before 

Lets pray to Hashut and in worst case get ready to be axed (by our nonchaos related kin)

[Honk]

6 hours ago, Charly2912 said:

get ready to be axed

Get ready to proxy as „nice“ dwarves...

cities of hashut, with some slave models (beastmen gors etc.)

[eekamouse]

2 minutes ago, Honk said:

Get ready to proxy as „nice“ dwarves...

cities of hashut, with some slave models (beastmen gors etc.)

I mean... what's to stop anyone of us from saying... "This is my Slaves to Darkness" army?

[Honk]

Just now, eekamouse said:

I mean... what's to stop anyone of us from saying... "This is my Slaves to Darkness" army?

In my area, I call upon old school and trveness rules and everybody loves playing a „legacy“ and rare army.... Powercreep left us behind long ago.

And who isn’t can *please insert all the swearing* and play somebody else.