AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion

[BWG Cannonball]

Hey Guys!

I just received my package of Chaos Dwarves in the mail on Monday and am super pumped to get started building/playing them.  My only fear here is that I made a mistake only getting 2 Magma Cannons instead of a flat three like many lists I'm seeing.  I wanted some variety between items/war machines so also went with a Skull Cracker, Deathshrieker, and Iron Daemon along with extra K'Daai.

My big question is, are 3 Magma Cannons required to be competitive or can we be workable with other options and still stay dangerous?

 

For reference, I've got 30 Ironsworn, 20 Fireglaives, 6 K'Daai, a Taur'ruk, 2 Daemonsmiths, Castellan, and Drazoath as well.

[Andreas]

12 minutes ago, BWG Cannonball said:

My big question is, are 3 Magma Cannons required to be competitive or can we be workable with other options and still stay dangerous?

You can run a list with 2 magma (or 0) and still be competitative, no problem.

From the models you have you could try this list:

Draz

Tauruk - general - grotesk - gryph feather charm

daemonsmith

30 ironsworn

2x10 fireglaves

6 Kadaii

Iron daemon

Skullcracker

2 Magma

Maybe gemenids.

 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

If you're not running a Battalion, is there any benefit to running huge numbers of the Ironsworn (besides a discount) or Fireglaives?  I mean, then the enemy has more targets to deal with and we would have more units to run where needed and target enemies as needed.  Without a Battalion (like the Blackshard Warhost), we're probably not going to choose whether going first or second, so I wonder if the "min-max" approach is better?  I'm working on 4x10 Fireglaives.  Later I'll do 2x10 Ironsworn for the Warhost.

I think Draz is definitely best when running lots of Ironsworn and Fireglaives for the no-battleshock ability.   He's a strong caster but SOOOOO expensive in points.   Wish we had a buff to hit for him.....he should be Ba'haal I think being headcheese of the temple, and on a bull.

[Andreas]

Fireglaves in units of 10 seems better to me. I think ironsworn works better in larger units (if you use them to grabb objectives or as a screen).

Has anyone had any success with the warhost. It seems to me very expensive with a lot of tax units (castellant, bsb, second ironsworn unit) for little gain. But I havn't tried it.

[Lord Krungharr]

I really want to try it but haven't finished my little Troops yet.  I think the Castellan could be decent IF we could get him into ability range.  However many of the missions start a mere 18" away now, and using a command point turn one he could run 6" to be in good 2nd turn position.  

I think the Standard Bearer however is actually really good.  Rerolling wound rolls of 1 in a 18" wholly-within bubble is nice, especially next to Tauruks and Centaurs and SkullCrackers (which are all in my usual lists).  I want to run one with maybe a Thermal Rider cloak for good positioning on him, but only when not using Tauruks. 

The extra point of Bravery within the battalion, coupled with the Standard Bearer, the big unit bonus, and the units' Icons mean they'll be rocking a 10 Bravery.

Good point on the Ironsworn, they'll need the extra bodies to do their thing.

[BWG Cannonball]

Got my first couple games in with LoA and I'm really loving them so far.  I got a friend of mine frustrated that plays Nighthaunt on the raw amount of mortal wound output I have with this army.  He started calling me Battletome: Mortal Wound, haha.

That being said I had a few rules questions I wanted to run by everyone that I'm a bit stuck on interpreting.

Blackshard Armour-

I understand this is for everyone in the army, my question is in regards to the mechanic and which "wound" is negated.  Is this wound negated prior to saves or after saves have been taken?  Also do they mean "wound" or damage, (my thought was wound.)

Also, how does this work with things like More Power! For the Iron Daemon and Skullcracker?  Does it negate the role entirely if it's the first one (which it will be) or does it negate a certain amount of damage?

 

Drazoath the Ashen's Hellshard Amulet-

With his Hellshard Amulet the wording is as soon as a wound is allocated, roll a 5+ and it's negated and bounced back.  Much like Blackshard, is this done prior to armor saves or after armor saves have been taken?

[Ben]

Hi, 

Praise Hashut!  

Welcome to the Legion.  

The rules for wounds/damage/allocating are pretty clear.  Its all in the core book.  page 232. 

You make an attack.  Roll Hit, Roll Wounds, Roll any armour saves,  Work out the damage and THEN allocate wounds.  

Both the Blackshard Armour and the Hellshard Amulet now step in and negate those wounds.  

E.g. If you did 2x D3 damage you would roll the damage, then roll that many saves on your Hellshard amulet. 

Remember though, Mortal Wounds are treated differently. an ability has to specify that it negates mortal wounds for it to work against them . 

 

Hope this helps! 

[BWG Cannonball]

Thanks for the help @Ben!  My only question then is the difference between wounds and damage.  In the example provided, where 2 wounds doing d3 damage a piece, would I then negate the first wound causing d3 damage (the interpretation I have) or would it be negating damage?  I think it's the wording here that I'm slightly confused over.

Additional Example:  Spirit of Durthu has 3 attacks doing 6 damage a piece unhurt.  He charges into my unit of Ironsworn, wiffs on 1 out of 3 but connects with 2 of them.  I fail my saves, so 2 of the wounds go through doing 6 damage a piece.  With Blackshard Armour, my interpretation was the first of those 2 wounds getting through would be negated, so the 2nd wound (causing 6 damage, which bleeds through the unit) would kill off 6 of my crazed Dawi.  Am I incorrect in thinking this?

Edited December 4, 2018 by BWG Cannonball
Clarification

[Lobeau]

33 minutes ago, BWG Cannonball said:

Thanks for the help @Ben!  My only question then is the difference between wounds and damage.  In the example provided, where 2 wounds doing d3 damage a piece, would I then negate the first wound causing d3 damage (the interpretation I have) or would it be negating damage?  I think it's the wording here that I'm slightly confused over.

Additional Example:  Spirit of Durthu has 3 attacks doing 6 damage a piece unhurt.  He charges into my unit of Ironsworn, wiffs on 1 out of 3 but connects with 2 of them.  I fail my saves, so 2 of the wounds go through doing 6 damage a piece.  With Blackshard Armour, my interpretation was the first of those 2 wounds getting through would be negated, so the 2nd wound (causing 6 damage, which bleeds through the unit) would kill off 6 of my crazed Dawi.  Am I incorrect in thinking this?

I believe that they both would go threw. But they would only do 11 damage, since the first 'wound' is negated.  So successful hit rolls less successful save rolls>roll D3 damage, calculate the damage>subtract 1.

[BWG Cannonball]

I guess my big hang up is on the word "wound" in the rule.  The wounds are allocated onto a unit, then the damage is fed to one model until it's dead then bled throughout the unit.

[Lobeau]

1 minute ago, BWG Cannonball said:

I guess my big hang up is on the word "wound" in the rule.  The wounds are allocated onto a unit, then the damage is fed to one model until it's dead then bled throughout the unit.

I understand your confusion, but being able to negate a full attack out be very overpowered. Imagine a hero whose main attack hit like a mack truck, but only had one attack, it wouldn't make sense for our little servants of Hashut to negate all of that damage on the basis that its a single attack alone. If they rolled a D6 and got a 6 - we would reduce the incoming damage to 5, the roll our amulets 5 times.

 

This also works with our warmachines, when we stoke them and do damage to ourselves, we roll a D3 to determine the amount of wounds we allocate to ourselves, then subtract 1. So we roll a D3 and land on a 6, doing 3 wounds/damage to ourselves, but we negate the first would, and would only lose two health. Alternatively if we rolled a 1 or 2 on the D3 and only did one damage to ourselves, we could completely negate that.

[BWG Cannonball]

Completely understand.   That does make more sense.  I also checked the wording on a lot of the Death rules (Deathless Minions for one) and it ends up being the same way with negating the first damage.

[Lobeau]

4 minutes ago, BWG Cannonball said:

Completely understand.   That does make more sense.  I also checked the wording on a lot of the Death rules (Deathless Minions for one) and it ends up being the same way with negating the first damage.

Here is a quick reference sheet I made for the LoA with the new rules released this summer. I don't get to play as much as I would like to due to life, and figured it would be good to have a summary of the order of battle so I don't forget units abilities. It might be of some use to new LoA players too.

LoA Order.pdf

[Ben]

This is cool! I'll stick it up in the downloads section

[BWG Cannonball]

16 hours ago, Lobeau said:

Here is a quick reference sheet I made for the LoA with the new rules released this summer. I don't get to play as much as I would like to due to life, and figured it would be good to have a summary of the order of battle so I don't forget units abilities. It might be of some use to new LoA players too.

LoA Order.pdf

This is fantastic!  My only question is with the FAQ, do the Iron Daemon and Skullcracker ignore the first mortal wound with blackshard or is it just the first wound?  Are mortal wounds considered the same in this circumstance?

[Ben]

See above!!!!!  I posted the FAQ answer!!!  

WOUNDS and MORTAL WOUNDS are two different things.

Your ability needs to state witch it works against.  

Blackshard armour only works against the first WOUND allocated. 

[Lord Krungharr]

2 hours ago, Ben said:

See above!!!!!  I posted the FAQ answer!!!  

WOUNDS and MORTAL WOUNDS are two different things.

Your ability needs to state witch it works against.  

Blackshard armour only works against the first WOUND allocated. 

I second that notion.  Many people get that confused, and it's very key to remember in any tournament scene especially.  

Drazhoath used to negate mortal wounds too I think but they changed that.  And Shartor's old command ability as I recall was also an aura of wound negation.  The rerolling charges for Ba'hal units is nice, but blanket 'feel no pain' was better.  

I'll be trying out my Fireglaive list tomorrow night (hopefully vs the Beastclaw Raiders with whom I have a grudge):

Tauruk (General/Grotesque/Armor of Bazherak), Shartor, 2 Daemonsmiths with Darkforged Weapons, Gutrot Spume and 5 Blightkings (Allies), 4x10 Fireglaives (Battleline), 2 Skullcrackers, 2 Magma Cannons, Geminids of Uhl-Gysh.  2000 points total

I think that's a good spread of mortal wounds, decent rend with some at range, and enough bodies to get some objectives.  Blightkings are my backfield pests, since I can't ally in my Gutter Runners.....I don't think Skaven and Dwarves get along very well in the stories, do they?

 

[Ben]

AoS Tonight!!!!!  Running my Legion.  Also tempted with a Warp Fire dragon instead of my Iron Daemon.  

[Lobeau]

How well does the warpfire dragon tie into the legion? I've been considering picking one up, but haven't done so yet. After a few years of wanting to pick up Shar'tor, but always talking myself out of it, I finally ordered him and got to open it and cleaned it up last night. I can't wait to paint him up!

[Lord Krungharr]

I am tempted to buy the new Shartor model and use my old converted one as a Tauruk, that model is so awesome!  But I used my Christmas present request for 6 Kdaii Fireborn instead.

The Warpfire Dragon seems to fit in the mix with Azgorh, as it breathes fire (the Dawi Zharr like fire) and it probably likes metals and mountains right?  Also a really cool model!  If it could fit in the ally slot go for it.

[BWG Cannonball]

I'm trying to come up with a more competitive list to see if I could run my lil' crazed dudes with the big boys.  I currently only have 2 Magma Cannons, however, so that's the one downfall I know I'll have to deal with.  Let me know what you guys think and any changes you might make.

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Drazhoath The Ashen (320)
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk (160)
- General
- Trait: Grotesque
- Artefact: Armour of Bazherak the Cruel
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon

Battleline
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)

Units
6 x K'Daai Fireborn (280)

War Machines
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Skullcracker War Engine (200)
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

 

[Ben]

Solid man!  very solid.  I'd say that the Deathshrieker is the weak link but the rest is excellent! 

[Lord Krungharr]

I think in that army Draz might work.  Good to have wizardry.  I would drop the Deathshrieker, and take a Standard Bearer instead.  Run him behind the Skullcracker and Tauruk and Draz and let them reroll 1s to wound in melee.  I used that last night (not with Draz though) and it was very helpful indeed! 

Deathshrieker almost never does anything.  I wish they did.  Better to run an allied Exalted Flamer frankly for at least a chance at extra mortal wounds.

[erasercrumbs]

The stink of burnt metal and the black bile of ceaseless industry calls to me. Aqshy beckons me home.

I've seen some third party models that look great and will mix nicely with Forgeworld, so I believe the time has come to start my Legion. Starting with blocks of infantry now. Quick question: how effective is the Dreadquake? I thought it was trash until I noticed it only costs a little more than a Deathshrieker, now it looks pretty economical (points-wise, I mean).

Edited December 7, 2018 by erasercrumbs

[Lobeau]

36 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said:

Quick question: how effective is the Dreadquake? I thought it was trash until I noticed it only costs a little more than a Deathshrieker, now it looks pretty economical (points-wise, I mean).

Welcome, praise Hashut!

I've addressed this s few times in the past, the dreadquake is one of my favorite models from the entire collection, however, it really has been disappointing on the table top.

Pros: Awesome Model, long range, and no line of sight needed. Can reroll the D6 damage if attacking units of 10+. Ok point cost. Extra defense against ranged attacks.

Cons: Only 1 attack, 2 if you successfully whip the ogre slave, then with the 4+ to hit, and 3+ to wound it seems rare to land two hits and wounds. Then you have to roll the damage on the D6 scale, which adds a lot of inconsistency to it as a whole. It sucks when you whip the slave, pass the hit and wound rolls, then only do 2 damage. Its very expensive in $ or £ for its actual effectiveness. It used to debuff the units that it hit so they couldn't run and lost bravery, but that went away.

Conclusion: I love the model, I use it in friendly games and when I need it in a list, but not one game have I been impressed with what it did in battle. If you're playing competitive, look towards the magma cannons, but running 3 magmas at your local shop or FLGS will make people hate you. Get it if you're a collector or like the model, the yearly revisions have been kind to the legion and I believe that one day it will be buffed to a level that matches its monetary cost. Hope that helps.