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AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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I also practiced with the Magma-filled Artillery Train, 4x10 Fireglaives, Tauruk, Castellan, Standard Bearer, Skullcracker vs Tzeentch (Warpflame Host with 2 Exalteds/3x3 Flamers, Beasts of Chaos Phantasmagoria w Shaman/3x10 Gors/6 axe&shield Bullgors), Fatemaster, DP.

Mission was Gifts from the Heavens.

Of course Tzeentch went first.  (another problem with Azgorh is they rarely, if ever, get to go first)  At least this mission played to Azgorh's strength, which is holding the line, playing for a draw.  But this was mostly a shooty vs shooty army, interesting close tough game.

Bullgors moved up with Fatemaster behind them hiding behind the woods.  Tzeentch as a whole was pretty much clustered in the center with the Gors spread amongst the 3 sections where the meteor objectives might fall.  Same with the Azgorh Fireglaives.  Azgorh tried to just pick out what units it could (that weren't blocked by the woods in the table center) and finish them off one by one.  Iron Daemon moved up with a magma cannon in tow.  Magmas tried to pick off things but the lousy forest obscured much.  Iron Daemon did squat vs the Bullgors.  It's just not a good unit and makes me think using them as Steam Cannons is probably equally sucky.  Needless to say the Bullgors charged turn 2 and pounded it into scrap.  But then they got blasted down to 1 dude who actually did not run away.

Finally things were getting into range and though Tzeentch's objective landed in his center, and Azgorh to the right side, it was clear to be a stalemate on that front.  Gors and Fireglaives all tried to get back to the relevant center of the table, some more quickly than others.  Pretty much came down to kill points.  The Tzeentch DP was tough to crack with his 3+ and Lifeswarm healing him.  Skullcracker failed to do much against him for a couple turns. 

Went through turn 5 and all done Azgorh pulled the Minor Victory gaining 1260 kill points vs Tzeentch's 1220!  Hard fought and messy battle.  Azgorh is good at causing damage, both at range and up close.  Can't argue with that.  Doesn't seem right that Fireglaives only hit on a 4+ though.  Don't regular Duardin hit on a 3+?

But again their slowness almost always costs them.  I still haven't made K'Daai again, haven't found a suitable kitbashing method for them (cuz I'd want big-hat old school versions somehow).  

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9 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I have used the Execution Herd several times, and I agree, they need the unit of 6.  However I think it's so expensive, since Shartor is needed, it's probably not worth it (as cool and awesome as Shartor is).   The problem with the Execution Herd, besides points cost, is they only get to pick one unit per their hero phase.  If they got to pick it immediately after they slay the picked enemy, that would be so much more useful.  It's too easy to eliminate the one or two Azgorh units in range of the picked unit, then they're left waiting to slay the picked unit again.  Using the CA from the Tauruk, plus another CP for the rerolling 1s to hit in melee is a way to make up for it to some extent (aside from 2s).

Yesterday I practiced with the Herd at 3x3 renders, plus 3 magma cannons/1 Daemonsmith, Skullcracker, 1 extra tauruk, and allied 2 Slaughterpriests.   This was vs Blades of Khorne (Tyrants of Blood with Rage/Wrath/Fury Thirster, Gigantic Spawn, Daemon Prince w axe, Brass Despoilers w Doombull n 3x10 Gors).   Mission: Focal Points.  Khorne went first.

Turn1:  Khorne just moved up to nab the center objective plus his own 2 in his deployment zone, and put 6 wounds onto Shartor with the Bloodthirsters' flail/lash.  Azgorh then moved up to attack and used Shartor's CA to reroll charges, and still failed to get a renders unit plus Shartor into combat with their marked unit (the Wrath-Thirster).  Got the Rage Thirster down to 2 wounds with magma; Slaughterpriests didn't pray hard enough that turn.  However then the DP and Tyrants all got to fight first (DP just does, and Fury Thirster had Halo of Blood).  So I lost a Tauruk and many renders.   

Azgorh got the double turn and took out the Rage Thirster and Fury Thirster and then the DP.  But then it was downhill.  Khorne advanced with Wrath-Thirster and Doombull and Gors to take out the Magma Cannons, Daemonsmith and 1 Slaughterpriest.  Other Tauruk was down to 2 wounds so turn 3 he got 1 far objective for 1 point, Skullcracker tried to clear the center but kinda whiffed two turns in a row, suffering mortal wounds in return for overcharging.  Gigantic Spawn cleaned up the bulls but did get killed eventually by the Skullcracker, just not fast enough to matter.  

Lessons learned are that when engaging multiple units at one time, it really helps to have a single activation to do the work.  So that's why I think a single big unit of Renders is superior.  The hard part is getting the Tauruk placed so he could strike if needed but also with 12" so the renders can hit better.  A big problem with Azgorh, besides a lack of general speed to get to objectives, is their severe lack of possible buffs.  Even the old allied Sorcerer Lord doesn't work anymore (with Daemonic Power).   

Frankly this illustrates a major problem with how heroes work in AoS in general.  They're supposed to lead the army, but they have to make a separate charge roll to be in range for many of their abilities.  I think an easy change would be to say any hero (or perhaps non-monster or non-behemoth heroes only) can nominate a non-monster unit within 3" of them at the start of the charge phase, and make a single charge roll for both the hero and unit.  That just makes fluffy and logical game sense doesn't it?

You last points highlight something I have had to explain to people before, especially regarding k'daai: azgorh warscrolls are "what you see is what you get", we have very little buffing ability so each unit must pull its own weight.

And yeah, I really want to run the execution herd, but units of 3 just don't hit hard enough and even before going up to units of 6 it is super points heavy. Do you have any experience running a maxed out size 12 unit? I like the bull centaurs, and they are a welcome break from running k'daai in every list, but it is hard to find out how other people use them effectively as most of the time I just hear that they aren't optimal.

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I never did the maxed out unit, and I only have 9 Renders now.  It's an okay discount on points.  Makes for a tough wall that can hit back, even with saves.  I could see the Spite Shield effect withering a whole bunch of enemies if they could be engaged simultaneously.   Vs most armies, maybe they'd get to hit first with one thing depending who charges, but then the whole line of Renders could strike back at once, theoretically weakening all the hitting power of the enemy that they're in combat with.  And as each one strikes back, they might take mortal wounds cuz of Spite Shields.

That might be the best way to run the Renders.  Back them with a Castellan (with a Thermalrider Cloak to get in range), and then hopefully turn 2 they could do this.  Shartor would actually be good for this method, as his reroll charges bubble is 24" which is plenty big to get all the Renders in there even if he doesn't get the charge too.  Having a Standard Bearer could help them out too with the battleshock and rerolling wounds of 1.   Wish I would've kept my other 3 Renders now!

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  • 3 weeks later...

God I am a weak man, Just in the middle of a DnD/WHFB themed campaign with some friends and we decided we'd randomly choose characters.

I ended up with a Chaos Worshipping Dwarf who loves guns and routinely makes his assistants disappear and we all know about that game in here.

Anyway fast forward a bit, looking online every list seems to be using Fireglaives and not Ironsworn, am I missing something obvious about Ironsworn or they just a bit subpar? as I'm looking to buy the Blackshard Warhost to save a bit of money is there any reason to bin the idea off and just get more Fireglaives instead? 🤔

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7 hours ago, j0lt said:

God I am a weak man, Just in the middle of a DnD/WHFB themed campaign with some friends and we decided we'd randomly choose characters.

I ended up with a Chaos Worshipping Dwarf who loves guns and routinely makes his assistants disappear and we all know about that game in here.

Anyway fast forward a bit, looking online every list seems to be using Fireglaives and not Ironsworn, am I missing something obvious about Ironsworn or they just a bit subpar? as I'm looking to buy the Blackshard Warhost to save a bit of money is there any reason to bin the idea off and just get more Fireglaives instead? 🤔

Yeap they are subpar comparing to fireglaves

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While I've never actually tried Ironsworn, they're cheap, and their melee weapons are rend-1.  That's decent, and they hit on 3+.  I like their reroll saves of 1 vs missile weapons.  Also their Spiteshields can do some hurt in retribution for enemies attacking them.  I think taken in max units as short-legged walls of objective taking jerks, they are good. 

Fireglaives on the other hand I like in smaller bands of 10; to me they're not all that great, super crappy in melee, and more often than not they whiff and barely kill anything (as Irondrakes in my Cities army they do WAAAAAAAY better for me).

I'm a little doubtful that the Blackshard Warhost is worth the points but for an extra relic, lower drops, and I'm probably taking a Castellan with Ironsworn anyways, might as well I guess take the battalion.  Once they get stuck in combat they won't be moving, so rerolling hits of 1 is nice (and wounds of 1 with the Standard Bearer around). 

The Soulscream Bridge is pretty popular with any of the little Azgorh guys, since they're super slow.   Not sure if the Boatman spell works similarly, I never see anyone write about using that one.  Probably need some allied Tzeentch caster to get any endless spells off successfully these days, like the Blue Scribes....though he's kinda worthless in a non-Tzeentch army aside from endless spell casting.  Azgorh needs their own endless spells amongst other things.

K'daai Fireborn can also make up for slowness in the rest of the army.  First wave of fire, then back it up with waves of shooting and then eventually tiny axes and bouncy shields :)

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Here's an Azgorh army I've never tried but actually really want to now that I wrote it.  Just a stupid all out assault army.  With such multiple threat overload with such high damage output, I wonder if this is actually viable in some matchups?  Probably wouldn't win much due to lack of bodies, but kitbashing skullcrackers and Tauruks is super fun!

Tauruk (general: Grotesque)

Shartor

Tauruk

Tauruk

Castellan (Thermalrider Cloak to get in range for his CA on turn 2)

Daemonsmith

3x10 Ironsworn, or maybe 2x10 Ironsworn/1x10 Fireglaives (sometimes good to have less than 2K to net a triumph)

4 Skullcrackers

Last stand of the temple or something.  Should I make this?  SHOULD I?!?!?

 

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On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Here's an Azgorh army I've never tried but actually really want to now that I wrote it.  Just a stupid all out assault army.  With such multiple threat overload with such high damage output, I wonder if this is actually viable in some matchups?  Probably wouldn't win much due to lack of bodies, but kitbashing skullcrackers and Tauruks is super fun!

Tauruk (general: Grotesque)

Shartor

Tauruk

Tauruk

Castellan (Thermalrider Cloak to get in range for his CA on turn 2)

Daemonsmith

3x10 Ironsworn, or maybe 2x10 Ironsworn/1x10 Fireglaives (sometimes good to have less than 2K to net a triumph)

4 Skullcrackers

Last stand of the temple or something.  Should I make this?  SHOULD I?!?!?

 

I love this. I actually have 4 skullcrackers (2 real 2 kitbash) but only 1 tauruk and all the other to run this. I think it would be amazingly fun to run!!  Might have to take this idea! 

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I will have to proxy some skullcrackers, but will also give it some practice vs my Bullgor heavy Beasts of Chaos (instead of the extra Tauruks I will have to try some allies to fill the points, Blue Scribes w Cogs and Emerald Lifeswarm, Plague Priest, Slaughter Priest, and Mindstealer Pharanx).  That's a good trial run as the BoC has over 150 wounds and will have two big outflanking units, and only 3 drops for deployment. 

Azgorh almost always goes second, so will they be able to withstand an alpha strike and compete on objectives vs the shifty Beasts, who also have some beatsticks with the Bullgors and Doombulls?  Stay tuned for more!.....

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  • 4 weeks later...

3 Skull crackers, wow?! Do they perform well on the table. I went with a daemon engine and two magma cannons. I also got the Blackshard Warhost and the Execution Herd. I know the centaurs aren’t the most competitive but I just want to plunk 12 of those ****** on the table and watch my opponents reaction, especially if they have never played against them

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That'll make 4 Skullcrackers for me :D  They have generally been my shining champions of every game.  Like you say with 12 Bull Centaurs, those who've never seen them really underestimate them.   I'm gonna have to make a 4th magma cannon so they have something to tow along too.  Just a ridiculous army that probably sucks, but on the occasion that matchup works out, it's a hoot!

Iron Daemon I've also had very good results with at least half the time, but targets must be chosen carefully with them.   Probably good for sniping enemy heroes as are magma cannons.  If Azgorh had any to hit buffs that would certainly help.

I think the Herd and Warhost are actually pretty good.  I had to thin out my collection to beef up my other armies to completion (and not spend more money).  

 

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On 6/17/2020 at 5:14 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

That'll make 4 Skullcrackers for me :D  They have generally been my shining champions of every game.  Like you say with 12 Bull Centaurs, those who've never seen them really underestimate them.   I'm gonna have to make a 4th magma cannon so they have something to tow along too.  Just a ridiculous army that probably sucks, but on the occasion that matchup works out, it's a hoot!

Iron Daemon I've also had very good results with at least half the time, but targets must be chosen carefully with them.   Probably good for sniping enemy heroes as are magma cannons.  If Azgorh had any to hit buffs that would certainly help.

I think the Herd and Warhost are actually pretty good.  I had to thin out my collection to beef up my other armies to completion (and not spend more money).  

 

Wow! 4 in total would look amazing on the table. I feel some poor soul is going to be walking into a meat grinder and not even know it!

I just started collecting LoA and I decided to go all in! For as limited as the model choices are in the entire army (at least compared to other GW armies) it seems to be able to play many ways. I love that! I actually sold off my DoK army because though cool and competitive, they really can only be played one (maybe 2 ways) and many of the builds dare quite similar. Not to mention, the idea that many players have never even seen a LoA army on the table was very alluring. I wanted to purchase enough models to have several different builds, I think I purchased about 3000 points worth in total which should give me some great options. 

I really hope FW has no plans to retire the army, it seems more people have been mentioning it in the AOS world lately. I would love for them to add a couple new units! I truly think it is the most unique army in all of Warhammer and I have seen many others with the same opinion - I even like that is somewhat of an underutilized and neglected army since the turnover of units is much less, but obviously a few drawbacks come with it. I just wish I could get a little more fluff on the Chaos Dwarves, and LoA specifically without dropping $250 for the Tamurkhan Throne of Chaos Book.

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I agree , Azgorh has a good variety of distinct builds that play very differently.  Artillery/ shooty, heavy cavalry, infantry mobs, fast tarpits with the Kdaai.  Given how slow FW is on doin anything I wonder if they’ll really retire Azgorh.   That would involve the extra work of publishing something.  I can’t imagine GW not including them in the Points Profiles as that would cost FW sales.  Even I use my molds for jewelry that I haven’t used in ten years if someone wants that old thing.   It’s money!   FW seems to do made to order to some extent.  Pouring resins by order is a great way to manage inventory.   

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1 hour ago, IrishCarBomb said:

True, why would they cease making them if the molds are already made? Though they did remove many of the Tamurkhan models that were once available. As long as they keep them in the fold and update their rules every few years I'll be happy. 

Because they only keep what's profitable, more than half the Forge range was already removed, so I don't see why these would stay if they're not selling.

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1 hour ago, Grdaat said:

Because they only keep what's profitable, more than half the Forge range was already removed, so I don't see why these would stay if they're not selling.

But with the molds made they could just cast orders as they come in. And what are they currently doing with the molds anyway? - just thousands of dollars worth of paperweights.

As you said though, the fact that they even took a long break over this Covid period and have brought back the LoA models for sale must demonstrate they sell them somewhat regularly.

 

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1 hour ago, IrishCarBomb said:

But with the molds made they could just cast orders as they come in. And what are they currently doing with the molds anyway? - just thousands of dollars worth of paperweights.

As you said though, the fact that they even took a long break over this Covid period and have brought back the LoA models for sale must demonstrate they sell them somewhat regularly.

 

They could do that, but they don't. They could also sell the models for a reasonable price, but they don't. They're not interested in long term profits.

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I'll admit I've had a great deal of anxiety over Legion of Azgorh and their future. I love the army, but it feels almost like playing AoS 1.0 sometimes with how basic are Allegiance Abilities are. We have no spell lore, no unique terrain, no endless spells or equivalents, and barely any current lore. I'm afraid that they'll end up like getting more and more models gradually cut. There have been more Azgorh units lost than gained since Age of Sigmar released. 

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The one that bothered me the most was the omission of the Skullcracker in the last Pitched Battle Profiles, as that's my favorite unit.  I was very happy and relieved when the FAQ added it back but worries me for sure it's just not gonna be around next time.  That's why I'm going to run 4 now, as much as I can until they have to become Gorebeast Chariots, which are admittedly solid in a StD Ruinbringer Warband, but not nearly as satisfying.  

Pictures soon, they kitbashing is nearly complete.....

Edited by Lord Krungharr
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