AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

13 hours ago, Qcbob025 said:

Don't forget! Make Hellcannon great again!  (playable in LOA army)

D'oh!  Forgot about that one.

[JCar09]

 

I think they will change something. Especially the dread quake mortar. It is impossible to leave it the same with a 170mm base. I think they will do something powerful with it even if it goes up in points, right now it is rubbish.

[Qrow]

Gonna spam this message, tell GW that you want these changes. Despite having a reasonably active and vocal community for a playerbase our size, it is clear the GW is not listening to the issue we are expressing.

We have to email them constantly at Aosfaq@gwplc.com so that it is harder to ignore us. Even if you don't have a strong opinion on point changes or can't fully label every change you want, let them know. Hell, even just asking them to look LoA over next update will do, as long as they get the message that we want some quality of play adjustments. Especially as they claim they are trying to "bring all of the armies in Warhammer Age of Sigmar, across the system, in line with each other". The LoA, regardless of being a forgeworld army, is an AoS army foremost; so we should be brought into line with all the others.

[Hebroseph]

The new StD tome has some new allies for us. Both Formid Crushers and Mindstealer Sphinx seem like an absolute steal at 100 points for either. The crusher may be meta dependent, but most tables should have 5-6 pieces of terrain at least. 6" from terrain is a HUGE section of terrain the opponent has to avoid or take possible mortal wounds. Sphinx seems like one of the best things we can replace the lost CSL.  100 points gives us a fast unit that can maneuver and even keep up with our Kdaai while giving us a great chance to force a unit to fight last, allowing us to enter into the activation wars. Both options lose the cast/dispel, but can contribute in other areas that help.

[JCar09]

Well i send some emails last week, but no one's response

[eekamouse]

On 12/25/2019 at 2:52 AM, JCar09 said:

Well i send some emails last week, but no one's response

I don't think they've ever responded directly to an email I've sent to that address. Might be the holidays too.

[Qrow]

They tend not to respond to the emails sent into the FAQ team, they just read them and then add them to whatever list contains future FAQ issues. Hopefully if enough of us ask for updates and point out our underperforming units then we will see some changes in the future. Especially our battalions, they are seriously expensive for what they offer.

[mattbarker]

Let's hope they do update us at some point, although I don't see it happening until whatever is going on internally there is finished happening and they tell people why half their stuff has just vanished from the site. Currently the units I was going to order are now unavailable too. Probably nothing, but this is how everything else AOS that is now no longer available on their site started off 😞

Hope it isn't a sign of things to come for us

[eekamouse]

Still available in the US. Them being out of stock is actually a good sign tbh. It means things are selling.

[mattbarker]

1 minute ago, eekamouse said:

Still available in the US. Them being out of stock is actually a good sign tbh. It means things are selling.

95% chance, yeah. Your right it's nothing. But running out over a key order time like Christmas doesn't look good and like I say, it's how all the other items started that are now no longer there. 

Depends on you point of view. They didn't make more when they were "low stock" and have now run out. Not fantastic stock management if you know something sells well to wait until you've literally run out!

 

[JCar09]

Spoiler

They have placed a 170mm base on the large cannon. I think that means that things will change. Another colleague said that he had read I do not know where they considered legions of azgorh as an army like any other and that they would give him continuity, but I think he did not put the source.

---

Edited December 28, 2019 by JCar09

[Morglum StormBasha]

Legion of azgorh warscrolls are solid. Changes I would make 

 

allegaince abilities:

however I would expand the spell lore by copying and pasting a few more of the realm of aqshy spells into it.

make blackshard amour allow you to ignore first wound or mortal wound - same wording as mannfreds armour of templehof.

points

drazhoath down to 240 - he’s not as good as a verminlord and debatable between him and a contorted epitome even at this suggested reduced points.

shartor down to 180 - you would never take him over a taur ruk with an artefact at the moment.

dreadquake down to 140 - it’s big but it’s not as good as a magma cannon.

all the battalions down 20 points.

bull centaur renders down 20 to 160.

 

[Qrow]

We should try to get some community consensus on the changes we would like too see, focusing for now on point changes.

I have no experience with bull centaurs models so I won't comment on them, but my suggestions so far would be;

Drazhoath: drop 40 at least, could drop more than that. he simply doesn't have anything to justify his current point cost; he doesn't have a lot of damage output, he isn't particularly survivable, cast/dispell 2 isn't uncommon anymore, his spell is below average. Command ability is good, but that doesn't carry the point cost alone.

Infernal castellan: drop 10-20 points. 100 point heroes are actually fairly powerful in the newer battletomes, the only thing the castellan has going for him is his command ability which is hard to use as it is "start of the hero phase".

Daemonsmith: fine, good grab at 100 IMO, justifies his cost.

Battle standard bearer: fine at 100, decent buff at a good range.

Infernal guard ironsworn: good at current points? They compare ok with other armies baseline units, the reflect mortal wounds wounds is powerful. They could use a better hoard discount, maybe 90/220 as they are rarely seen competitively.

Infernal guard fireglaives: great at their cost. They sit exactly where they should. Powerful without being overpowered.

K'daai fireborn: early 2.0 they were the bane of my oppenents existence and would have seen a nerf; now, not so much.  They do exactly what they should for their cost, slaughter units and die fast. Unrendable is great, 5+ unbuffable ain't so great. Happy with them where they are.

Deathshrieker: no experience bit they seem decent for their cost.

Magma cannon: similar to K'daai, they were a cause of frustration and nerf requests at the start of 2.0, now they are still strong but they are in line with other faction. Hell, skaven can blow them out of the water with warp lightning cannons.

Dreadquake mortar: drop 40-60 points, preferably 60. Unreliable, small number of attacks, terrible hit/wound chart, requires support to become a bad unit, without support is flat aweful. Honestly this unit is the one that I do believe needs a new battlescroll to be properly usable, its risk/reward is all risky with almost no reward. If it was all least dropped to 120 it would be a fun pick, because the model is awesome, but it would still not compete with the deathshrieker.  Bring back the half move/run/charge that it had originally and make it a support unit if needed, currently it's just ******.

Iron daemon war engine: good for price, maybe a 20 point drop? Always does good work for me at least, fast with a decent number of attacks if you 4D6 it, ignores one wound if you hurt yourself. Fun, usable and doesn't cost a ridiculous amount to field.

Skullcracker: great, don't touch it. Please bring the model back, I know someone broke the mold, but please remake this.

Battalions:

Blackshard warhost: drop 40, it has unnecessary requirements to use the rerolls ones. When compared with recent battalions it is weak, the no moving for rerolls is frustrating and it has a high cost. At least most of the units are battleline so there is little chaff needed to field it.

Hashuts artillery train: drop 20. It doesn't really give you a buff? A daemonsmith will likely stay in the backline and babysit anyway, you don't want them on the frontline and their spell has great reach, so it is basically an artifact+command point grab. I can see the point of not needing to group your artillery in one spot, but I dont think it is worth the points. Let alone the fact that killing the daemonsmith makes it all completely useless.

Execution horde: maybe a 20 drop? Honestly seems like the best battalion, even though I don't have any bull centaurs. Makes killing that one trouble unit much easier and then can be reapplied to another unit.

 

To summarise, with prefered point changes:

Drazhoath: down 60 to 260

Castellan: down 20 to 100

Battle standard bearer: no change

Daemonsmith: no change

Ironsworn: become 90/220

Fireglaives: no change

K'daai: no change

Deathshrieker: no change

Magma cannon: no change

Dreadquake: down 60 to 120 (needs a new warscroll more than a point tweak)

Iron daemon war engine: down 20 to 160

Skullcracker: no change

Blackshard warhost: down 40 to 120

Hashuts artillery train: down 20 to 100

Execution herd: down 20 to 140

 

Any missed units are ones I have little to no experience with and will require other community input to tweak. Oh and we should just get access to the full realm of fire as our spell lore, it's already in the game so it won't break balance and it gives us some more fun without them needing to write an entire new lore for us.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Qrow

[mattbarker]

7 hours ago, Qrow said:

decent number of attacks if you 4D6 it, ignores one wound if you hurt yourself.

Assuming this means your subscribed to the Blackshard armour applying to mortal wound camp? 

As an additional update for me, I'd like Shar'Tor tweaked a bit. Not sure how, but he's twice the price in money and 60 points more than a taur'ruk for really not that much more! As a named hero feel he should offer more to see him used anywhere outside of execution herd lists to make bulls battleline 😌

 

[The_Dudemeister]

15 hours ago, mattbarker said:

Assuming this means your subscribed to the Blackshard armour applying to mortal wound camp?

It definitely doesn't unfortunately. 😕

From the rulebook FAQ:

Quote

Q: If an ability says it negates a wound, will it also negate a mortal wound?

A: No, unless the ability specifically says it negates mortal wounds. By the same token, an ability that negates only mortal wounds will not negate wounds.

 

[mattbarker]

2 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

It definitely doesn't unfortunately. 😕

From the rulebook FAQ:

 

Without wanting to do this all again - I think it does. 

Note the use of the past tense allocated. Not when allocating, allocated. Already happened. 

Standard rules state after it has been allocated, they're treated the same.  The armour doesn't prevent its allocation. The trait simply states the first allocated wound is ignored. Regardless of what caused it.

Right or wrong, that's how I read it and how the tense and syntax of the rules explain it. 

Anyway, not looking to start this up again. It needs an FAQ as at this point I just don't care enough to argue why if it specifically worded in the past tense!

[Grdaat]

2 minutes ago, mattbarker said:

Without wanting to do this all again - I think it does. 

Note the use of the past tense allocated. Not when allocating, allocated. Already happened. 

Standard rules state after it has been allocated, they're treated the same.  The armour doesn't prevent its allocation. The trait simply states the first allocated wound is ignored. Regardless of what caused it.

Right or wrong, that's how I read it and how the tense and syntax of the rules explain it. 

Anyway, not looking to start this up again. It needs an FAQ as at this point I just don't care enough to argue why if it specifically worded in the past tense!

It was FAQ'd already, you cannot negate a MW unless it says you can.

[Qrow]

Yeah, the blackshard armour rules are still... annoyingly poorly worded. My local area ruled that it works on both and so that is how we have been playing it, not looking to start this argument again.

So the taur'ruk is good at 160 (which, looking at the scroll, he honestly seems amazing), but Shar'tor needs a drop. How much though? Looking at his scroll I would say around 20ish, because he does generate mortal wounds fairly well.

What about bull centaur units? I have seen a 20 drop suggested, so 140/560ish?

[mattbarker]

16 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

you cannot negate a MW

The trait doesn't negate it. Negation happens pre-allocation, same as a ward, or a roll or a disgustingly resilient or whatever else in the game prevents a wound from being allocated to a unit.

At the end of a round, you total up all the damage to a unit and allocate it. You don't do this twice for mortal and non mortal wounds. After this step you deduct that total, regardless of how it is comprised, from the units available wounds. We then ignore the first.

Anyway... Going to sleep now!

[Grdaat]

1 hour ago, mattbarker said:

The trait doesn't negate it. Negation happens pre-allocation, same as a ward, or a roll or a disgustingly resilient or whatever else in the game prevents a wound from being allocated to a unit.

At the end of a round, you total up all the damage to a unit and allocate it. You don't do this twice for mortal and non mortal wounds. After this step you deduct that total, regardless of how it is comprised, from the units available wounds. We then ignore the first.

Anyway... Going to sleep now!

Again, it was FAQ'd. Sorry if you don't like it, but you cannot negate them with the armour.

Also you say the trait does not negate, yet the rule itself explicitly states it works through negation.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Grdaat

[Twisted Firaun]

Hey everyone, sorry to derail this thread but I have a problem I’m hoping you could help me solve.

I love the Legion of Azgorh but don’t have the money to get The Forgeworld stuff(plus that’s looking kinda iffy at the moment) what models do you think would work as a conversion base?

 

any advice is appreciated.

[Dollface]

Mantic Games has new "Infernal Dwarves" coming out in the next few months.

[mattbarker]

I've had a lot of good proxy / alt models from scibor. Great things there!

Edited December 30, 2019 by mattbarker
Typo

[Public Universal Duardin]

Years ago back when WHFB still lived, I bought 'dwarves of fire canyon' from a company called Russian Alternative - maybe that's a good choice if you live in Europe. Their minis had the classic 'big hat' look (and cast in metal!) but I am unsure whether they still exist.

[erasercrumbs]

Russian Alternative still exists and makes gorgeous Ironsworn, Fireglaives and Deathshreikers. The Renders are great too. You still need GW for Magma Cannons and Iron Daemons, though...which is good, GW needs to make bank off Azgorh.

I need to buy an Iron Daemon, but I need to know the army isn't going anywhere before I commit more money to it.

Edited December 31, 2019 by erasercrumbs