AoS 2 - Clan Pestilens Discussion

[Britzkrieg13]

Thank you for your assistance I will try to implement what you have said into my rat bois. Also I agree with you on the plague claw I almost never hit with it and even when I do they always make their saves. I'd be more than happy to bring in some warp lightning cannons or any mortal wound causing guys from clan skryre but there is a slight problem I've found with that. Some people have told me that the different clans count as allied units which means you have to spend allied points to add them into your army. However I've also been told by others that you dont have to worry about the allied points because they are all apart of the same faction technically. I've looked in the general handbook and could not find a ruling on it. Though I have dyslexia so it is somewhat difficult to read things like that and can easily miss important details so if you know the rulings on that it would be a big help.

[5kaven5lave]

If your allegiance is ‘Skaven Pestilens’ then other Skaven units will count towards your allies - you can have 400 points of allies in a 2000 point list.

If you take the allegiance ‘Grand Alliance: Chaos’ instead you can mix and match all Skaven to your heart’s content but you will lose access to all the Pestilens goodies and artefacts. 

Hope that helps. 

[Britzkrieg13]

4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

If your allegiance is ‘Skaven Pestilens’ then other Skaven units will count towards your allies - you can have 400 points of allies in a 2000 point list.

If you take the allegiance ‘Grand Alliance: Chaos’ instead you can mix and match all Skaven to your heart’s content but you will lose access to all the Pestilens goodies and artefacts. 

Hope that helps. 

Yes that helps a lot thank you. My friend and I dont normally use artifacts so not being able to use clan pestilence's artifacts is not a huge loss.

This brings me to another question I have which is about the sword of judgment. I looked over the extra pieces from my verminlord but I could not find a sword anywhere. Which lead to to believe it must be a relic or something so I looked it up and all I could find were the stats for it but did not really say what is was. Also keeps sending me links to the Daughters of kaine for some reason.

[RatOfGod]

51 minutes ago, Britzkrieg13 said:

This brings me to another question I have which is about the sword of judgment. I looked over the extra pieces from my verminlord but I could not find a sword anywhere. Which lead to to believe it must be a relic or something so I looked it up and all I could find were the stats for it but did not really say what is was. Also keeps sending me links to the Daughters of kaine for some reason.

The Sword of Judgement is a realm artefact and its rules are detailed in the Malign Sorceries expansion.  You can say that your army is from a specific realm and take artefacts from that realm in your list - in this case, your army would need to be from Ulgu. It’s not a piece that’s included with the set - the Corruptor’s weapons are still the normal ones unless you choose to model the artefact onto it - it’s just like saying that your plague priest has the Liber Bubonicus of something from the Pestilens artefacts.

 

If you do choose to play your army as a Grand Alliance Skaven list, you won’t be able to use Plague Monks as a battleline option anymore of course as they are only battleline *if Pestilens allegiance*. So you’ll need to find space in your list for three generic Chaos battleline options for a legal 2k list, e.g. three blocks of 20 clanrats. There have been some examples of lists like this earlier in the thread.

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by RatOfGod

[Britzkrieg13]

57 minutes ago, RatOfGod said:

The Sword of Judgement is a realm artefact and its rules are detailed in the Malign Sorceries expansion.  You can say that your army is from a specific realm and take artefacts from that realm in your list - in this case, your army would need to be from Ulgu. It’s not a piece that’s included with the set - the Corruptor’s weapons are still the normal ones unless you choose to model the artefact onto it - it’s just like saying that your plague priest has the Liber Bubonicus of something from the Pestilens artefacts.

 

If you do choose to play your army as a Grand Alliance Skaven list, you won’t be able to use Plague Monks as a battleline option anymore of course as they are only battleline *if Pestilens allegiance*. So you’ll need to find space in your list for three generic Chaos battleline options for a legal 2k list, e.g. three blocks of 20 clanrats. There have been some examples of lists like this earlier in the thread.

 

Thanks again that clears things up alot. 

[Fecistius]

I have recently came up upon the problem in the local tournament. Friend plays new stormcast eternals with anvils of sigmar (Or something like that), we were wondering what are the rules for the out of sequence attack. The problem is with the rule of Icon of pestilence of our monks, it says that when the model dies in the combat faze then we can give mortal wounds back, this means that we cannot use this banner. The same goes for the furnace prayer of striking back when models dies. It seems weird that we cannot attack back in this case. What are your opinions on that? Thx. 

[Mayple]

40 minutes ago, Fecistius said:

I have recently came up upon the problem in the local tournament. Friend plays new stormcast eternals with anvils of sigmar (Or something like that), we were wondering what are the rules for the out of sequence attack. The problem is with the rule of Icon of pestilence of our monks, it says that when the model dies in the combat faze then we can give mortal wounds back, this means that we cannot use this banner. The same goes for the furnace prayer of striking back when models dies. It seems weird that we cannot attack back in this case. What are your opinions on that? Thx. 

Both the mortal wounds when models die, and the ability to pile in and attack when a model dies happen in the combat phase I'm afraid, so any casualties taken outside of that will not trigger either of those abilities. I think the pile-in-and-attack when a model dies prayer used to be in any phase, but if that was ever the case, they've changed it now. 

So yeah. Combat phase only

[tolstedt]

15 hours ago, Mayple said:

So yeah. Combat phase only 

It's a real shame. Doesn't make much sense.

[5kaven5lave]

How is everyone physically moving all their rats (and keeping them in formation)? Movement trays?

[bushman101]

I still use movement trays, it keeps the game moving along.

My 'favorite' 1000 pt list uses 120 ClanRats. Too many rats to move individually and not bore your opponent to death

[Britzkrieg13]

Ok so I've been working on my line up for my army and here is what I got from using a war scroll builder.

1 Verminlord Corruptor

2 plague furnaces

1 plague priest with warpstone tipped staff

3 units of 40 plague monks

3 units of plague bearers

1 rattling gun weapon team

2 warpfire thrower weapon team

1 warp lightning cannon

and 2 endless spells

soulsnare shackles

quicksilver swords

this is what i have planned so far for the final build of my army it is subject to change especially if anyone has any suggestions on how i can improve it

Edited July 30, 2018 by Britzkrieg13

[tolstedt]

17 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

How is everyone physically moving all their rats (and keeping them in formation)? Movement trays?

Often I move the front line and announce that I will catch the others up on my opponent's turn.
I indicate the area I intend for the rats to fill with my fingers so there is no cheesing.  

If it's important for measurement like around objectives or tagging enemy units I will slow down a bit.

Often I don't remove the rats from the trays individually.  I keep track and wait until 10 die then pull a full movement tray off.  

[RatOfGod]

7 hours ago, Britzkrieg13 said:

Ok so I've been working on my line up for my army and here is what I got from using a war scroll builder.

1 Verminlord Corruptor

2 plague furnaces

1 plague priest with warpstone tipped staff

3 units of 40 plague monks

3 units of plague bearers

1 rattling gun weapon team

2 warpfire thrower weapon team

1 warp lightning cannon

and 2 endless spells

soulsnare shackles

quicksilver swords

this is what i have planned so far for the final build of my army it is subject to change especially if anyone has any suggestions on how i can improve it

Without seeing the points breakdown, which allegiance your list takes, which models are allies etc. it's a bit hard to give any real feedback at the moment. I'm assuming that you plan to run this as GA Chaos with the Plaguebearers as your battleline? It can't be Pestilens allegiance because the Skryre units alone fill your 400 point quota for allies, leaving no space for the Plaguebearers, and can't be Nurgle either because they don't have the option to take Skryre as an ally? That being said, it looks as though you're going to exceed 2k points from this list in any case. The Pestilens things alone come to 1380 points,  with the Skryre units it's up to 1820, and three min-size units of Plaguebearers is another 360 points on top?

[Umjammerlama]

8 hours ago, Britzkrieg13 said:

Ok so I've been working on my line up for my army and here is what I got from using a war scroll builder.

1 Verminlord Corruptor

2 plague furnaces

1 plague priest with warpstone tipped staff

3 units of 40 plague monks

3 units of plague bearers

1 rattling gun weapon team

2 warpfire thrower weapon team

1 warp lightning cannon

and 2 endless spells

soulsnare shackles

quicksilver swords

this is what i have planned so far for the final build of my army it is subject to change especially if anyone has any suggestions on how i can improve it

I think he means 3 units of plague censer bearers.

[RatOfGod]

4 minutes ago, Umjammerlama said:

I think he means 3 units of plague censer bearers.

That would make sense if they're run at min unit sizes of 5, for 180 points total; good spot. The point about costing for units, artefacts, realm, total points value, general, etc. still stands of course and would have probably eliminated the confusion here too.

[mrbedlam]

I got my first real game at 1000 points in the other day with Pestilens. I'm not fond of plague claws so I allied in a  warp cannon instead. That thing melted through Stormcast units. (it helped that I rolled 1s). Now I'm stuck on where to go. I'm not super worried about competitive but I do like to at least put up a good fight. My dilemna is running towards Nurgle allegiance and Grabbing some Blightlords, a Lord of Blights and a GUO or staying Pestilens but adding in some fun Skaven options like assassins, Thanquol or more Warp Cannons. What are the big pros and cons here?

[Umjammerlama]

23 hours ago, mrbedlam said:

I got my first real game at 1000 points in the other day with Pestilens. I'm not fond of plague claws so I allied in a  warp cannon instead. That thing melted through Stormcast units. (it helped that I rolled 1s). Now I'm stuck on where to go. I'm not super worried about competitive but I do like to at least put up a good fight. My dilemna is running towards Nurgle allegiance and Grabbing some Blightlords, a Lord of Blights and a GUO or staying Pestilens but adding in some fun Skaven options like assassins, Thanquol or more Warp Cannons. What are the big pros and cons here?

What was in your 1000 point list?

[Lord_Skrolk]

23 hours ago, mrbedlam said:

I got my first real game at 1000 points in the other day with Pestilens. I'm not fond of plague claws so I allied in a  warp cannon instead. That thing melted through Stormcast units. (it helped that I rolled 1s). Now I'm stuck on where to go. I'm not super worried about competitive but I do like to at least put up a good fight. My dilemna is running towards Nurgle allegiance and Grabbing some Blightlords, a Lord of Blights and a GUO or staying Pestilens but adding in some fun Skaven options like assassins, Thanquol or more Warp Cannons. What are the big pros and cons here?

Warp Lightning Cannons are awesome, especially for frying those golden tuna cans that are really popular these days

If you're trying to decide between moving to Nurgle allegiance vs mixed Skaven, here are a collection of relevant points. I'm not going to recommend one or the other, just present a bunch of info you may or may not know so you can make an informed decision: 

Nurgle is very competitive these days, but almost all competitive Nurgle lists are based around Blightkings battalions and don't include much, if any, Pestilens 

Thanquol is brutal (basically the only "broken" thing the Skaven have available is a Verminlord Deceiver+Thanquol combo to deep strike him into killing several enemy heroes on the first turn), and if you stay with Pestilens allegiance a fine ally although he takes up all your ally slot. 

Pestilens allegiance abilities arent any better than generic Chaos abilities, so if you want a lot of non-Pestilens Skaven stuff just run allegiance Chaos. Only benefit of Pestilens allegiance really is battleline Plague Monks/Censer Bearers. Note that you'll need 3 units of Clanrats to fill battleline. 

 

[hughwyeth]

34 minutes ago, Lord_Skrolk said:

Thanquol is brutal (basically the only "broken" thing the Skaven have available is a Verminlord Deceiver+Thanquol combo to deep strike him into killing several enemy heroes on the first turn), and if you stay with Pestilens allegiance a fine ally although he takes up all your ally slot. 

Is this a tried and proven tactic? I always thought 2d6 mortal wounds is nice, but basing two expensive models around it seems way too much. I haven't found thanquol to last too long, but I haven't played him in a while!

[Mayple]

3 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Is this a tried and proven tactic? I always thought 2d6 mortal wounds is nice, but basing two expensive models around it seems way too much. I haven't found thanquol to last too long, but I haven't played him in a while!

You're on point with the "too expensive to do" sentiment It could work in combination with something else, but on it's own it is a poor man's gautfyre scorch. 

[mrbedlam]

Mostly I'm not looking for the best just the fun that can win on occasion lol. Thanquol is a fantastic model so I would see using him occasionally and I have  few extra Grey Priests from my SC boxes. My only hesitation on going Mixed Skaven is that I already have 160 Plague Monks. I don't wanna do Clanrats on top of that...yuck. I'd be painting for years.

[Fecistius]

4 minutes ago, mrbedlam said:

Mostly I'm not looking for the best just the fun that can win on occasion lol. Thanquol is a fantastic model so I would see using him occasionally and I have  few extra Grey Priests from my SC boxes. My only hesitation on going Mixed Skaven is that I already have 160 Plague Monks. I don't wanna do Clanrats on top of that...yuck. I'd be painting for years.

I was thinking about running ratmaggots as well. You can probably prox 3 small units of plaguebearers as battlelines. Also i was thinking about bringing Glottkin instead of Thanquol as it Is deadly, tanky And Will give you tons of attacks for your plaguemonks. Then take corruptor with sword od judgement to kill monsters And heroes. Plus Furnace And some priests. Regarding Herald of Nurgle can he even give 5+ save to plaguemonks as they lack mortal keyword?

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, mrbedlam said:

Mostly I'm not looking for the best just the fun that can win on occasion lol. Thanquol is a fantastic model so I would see using him occasionally and I have  few extra Grey Priests from my SC boxes. My only hesitation on going Mixed Skaven is that I already have 160 Plague Monks. I don't wanna do Clanrats on top of that...yuck. I'd be painting for years.

In terms of mixed skaven, I've been having a lot of success with using plague monks as the core of my army (3x40) while having minimum-sized clanrat units (3x20) as very useful battleline tax, with the sole job of dying in place of the plague monks, or stay behind on objectives. Treat them as slaves essentially. Plague monks are highly competent units that really knows how to throw their weight around!

So don't worry about maxing them out Although if 60 is still too much, a cheaper non-skaven battleline tax would be "better" competitively and would need less models, so good to be aware of 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Mayple

[Jacksmiles]

Hi all!  I have some Nurgle stuff, and I'm looking at branching into Pestilens, sometimes mixing, sometimes to play the allegiance for fun.  With 2 Start Collecting boxes, plus another box of monks and a Verminlord, I can make the following list:

Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Plague Furnace (180)
Plague Priest with Warpstone-tipped Staff (80)
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Plague Priest with Warpstone-tipped Staff (80)

Battleline
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades

Total: 940 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 94

How does that look for a start?  Is it ever worth actually using the Pestilens allegiance in a more competitive setting, or should I just stick to Nurgle unless it's a chill game?

I was looking forward to using the plagueclaws from the SC sets but from reading here it sounds like I'd be better off building them as the skryre engines instead and using them as allies.

[Nikobot]

@Jacksmiles

My last game I ran a list very close to this one, differences were :

- I ran both Priests with Censers, I like the once per game "re-roll wounds effect" better

- I had the same amount of monks but ran 2x10 and 2x20 to get more board presence as we were playing on 6x4, and I also gave the 2x 20 monks woe-staves as I targetted them for the Corruptor CA.

I was quite happy with it and the CA worked well combined with prayers. I took the Liber and Master of Rot and Ruin so i was prayer spamming.
It was AOS1, I didn't take a sword of judgement but that looks nice.
Didn't manage a single great plague despite having 10-15 attempts at prayers.