AoS 2 - Clan Pestilens Discussion

[Ratcliff]

Played in heat 1 at the weekend, came 26th (yes-yes) with a 3-1-1 record. Slightly disappointed not to finish higher but had a great weekend and learned a lot. Got to play Gary Percival's Skaven and delighted that he nabbed second place with his rats. Roll on September!

Edited March 4, 2019 by Ratcliff
Error

[Umjammerlama]

14 minutes ago, Ratcliff said:

Played in heat 1 at the weekend, came 26th (yes-yes) with a 3-1-1 record. Slightly disappointed not to finish higher but had a great weekend and learned a lot. Got to play Gary Percival's Skaven and delighted that he nabbed second place with his rats. Roll on September!

Congratulations for coming 26th.  What was your army list?

[Ratcliff]

2 minutes ago, Umjammerlama said:

Congratulations for coming 26th.  What was your army list?

 

Allegiance: Pestilens

Leaders
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace(180)
- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus 
Verminlord Corruptor (260)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Suspicious Stone 

Battleline

Units
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (160)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 197

[Magnus The Blue]

Just did the maths and a fully buffed unit of 40 monks (both furnace prays, verminlord command trait, most offensive banner and musician, on the charge): if all of them get too attack they will (on average) cause 183 wounds to a 5+ save unit!  Sure this will almost never happen, but still quite good for a 240 point unit.  Should really be 10+ points a model.

Still a healthy 43 wounds on the charge without any buffs (all attacking and with banner/instrument).

[swarmofseals]

On 3/6/2019 at 6:52 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

Just did the maths and a fully buffed unit of 40 monks (both furnace prays, verminlord command trait, most offensive banner and musician, on the charge): if all of them get too attack they will (on average) cause 183 wounds to a 5+ save unit!  Sure this will almost never happen, but still quite good for a 240 point unit.  Should really be 10+ points a model.

Still a healthy 43 wounds on the charge without any buffs (all attacking and with banner/instrument).

I'm fairly certain that a unit of 40 can have both banners and instruments. 1 in 20 models can be a banner or icon bearer and 1 in 20 can be a gong or chime bearer. It doesn't say that both need to be equipped the same way.

[swarmofseals]

On 3/4/2019 at 1:54 AM, Ratcliff said:

Played in heat 1 at the weekend, came 26th (yes-yes) with a 3-1-1 record. Slightly disappointed not to finish higher but had a great weekend and learned a lot. Got to play Gary Percival's Skaven and delighted that he nabbed second place with his rats. Roll on September!

What kinds of things gave you trouble, if you don't mind me asking? And is the spellportal mostly for Dreaded Plague?

[5kaven5lave]

Also, you went blades not staves? Did that work ok?

[Ratcliff]

8 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

What kinds of things gave you trouble, if you don't mind me asking? And is the spellportal mostly for Dreaded Plague?

 

Yep, spellportal for dreaded plague, it was a really useful combo for me. The most trouble I had was in my draw against another Skaven army. It was Starstrike, so it was a cagey game waiting for the objectives to drop. I had no way of hurting him at range, while he had guns and WLCs. The game I lost was against Stormcast. It was actually my first ever game against a Stormcast army, and I think I would have done a lot better had I known more about their units and synergies. But he was a v good player, and punished my errors well

2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Also, you went blades not staves? Did that work ok?

 

The only reason I had blades was because they were already built that way. Blades used to be better and far easier to batch paint. I'm also still not convinced staves are better anyway. They definitely are in completely optimised situations, but I have yet to find myself in such a situation. Blades are better all rounders imo

 

[Bailey The Cat]

On 3/9/2019 at 5:21 AM, Ratcliff said:

The only reason I had blades was because they were already built that way. Blades used to be better and far easier to batch paint. I'm also still not convinced staves are better anyway. They definitely are in completely optimised situations, but I have yet to find myself in such a situation. Blades are better all rounders imo

Agreed.  When running multiple units of monks I'm planning on still having 50% of so use Blades because they are more effective on their own. 

[King Taloren]

On 3/6/2019 at 8:52 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

Just did the maths and a fully buffed unit of 40 monks (both furnace prays, verminlord command trait, most offensive banner and musician, on the charge): if all of them get too attack they will (on average) cause 183 wounds to a 5+ save unit!  Sure this will almost never happen, but still quite good for a 240 point unit.  Should really be 10+ points a model.

It’s not really 240 points it’s 680 because of the buffs needed to make it happen.

[Magnus The Blue]

26 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

It’s not really 240 points it’s 680 because of the buffs needed to make it happen.

True, but even at 680, 183 wounds from one turn of combat is just rude.

On the dual blades Vs blades and staves, I think the main considerations are 1) how big your units are and 2) how many Plague Furnaces your running. big units and those supported with Furnaces are going to do better with Staves, small/unsupported units are better with dual blades.

This aside I think the main issue pure Clan Pestilence list are facing is getting around the board and putting early pressure on opponents. Gnaw wholes help a bit and Veminlords are obviously much faster than anything else we have, but other than that what tricks to we have to stop being out manoeuvred? 

-Filling the board with bodies is a solution of sorts (5+ units of 40 plague monks), but pushing 200+ models around isn't my idea of fun.

-Plague Catapults give us an option of early pressure, but feel over priced  compared to our other options and become really bad against any opponent without units with 10+ models.

-Magic is another option, but we rely on a master-clan general and the Verminlord as only source of casting.  I think Warp Lightening Vortex is a great way to 'encourage' enemies to come out of their deployment zone. I wonder if it's worth going for Thanquil as general and stilling him next to a Gnaw hole turn one for +3 to cast it. and a solid centrepiece for the army (Master of Magic Verminlord is a cheaper option with +2 to cast).

Thoughts?

[Ratcliff]

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

True, but even at 680, 183 wounds from one turn of combat is just rude.

 

It's also quite pointless. What do you need to wound 183 times? 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

So uh been toying around with lists and stuff and this is the one I like the most for a pure pestilens army:

 

plague furnace (general and prolly the relic holder, thinking of giving the liber bubonicus for max prayers)

plague priest*2 

plague monks*40 (the “Death Star” of the list)

plague monks*10

plague monks*10

plague monks*10

plague monks*10

plague monks*10

plague monks*10

should be 1000 points  (I don’t have the new tome so idk what changed points wise for pestilens) the thing I need help on is what’s command to give my units of 10 and what trait my warlord should have (leaning towards rerolls on prayers for a higher chance at 6s for great plagues) I’m also open to grabbing a different relic of course since the auto dispell endless spells seems useful when you got no wizards.

game plan is to use gnaw holes and 3 units of 10 as initial pressure (kinda in a way that if they charge them they only get one unit in range and have to deal with at least one of them counter charging) on a flank as to disrupt but not be the actual threat. Most likely 2 units of ten blocking charges for the 40 block and the last unit of 10 doing whatever 

on the defensive or when faced with alpha strikes similar plan but the distraction is no longer used, instead stringing more ten mans on my lines to take initial charges before counter charging as much as possible to death

and when facing gunlines gnawholes will provide the means to instantly bring as much to their face as possible and maybe even making some charges to provide instant messy death and disruption to either me or my opponent. With the 6 inch space around gnawholes should allow for at least 40 guys to go at once

also idk how gnawholes are placed so perhaps this is all impossible and my game plan will always be to run up the table and kill everything lol! The way they were explained online it seems like they can be placed in a way to try getting first turn charges but idk as I don’t have the book 

so hows my list 😆

[Blackbriar]

If you have a group of 10 monks can I bring the 1 standard bearer and 1 plague harbinger that say “each unit of 20”?

[dclandis]

On 5/2/2019 at 5:09 PM, Blackbriar said:

If you have a group of 10 monks can I bring the 1 standard bearer and 1 plague harbinger that say “each unit of 20”?

Sorry no one replied, you may have figured it out by now.  It's pretty simple though.  You have to have a unit of 20 to take one of each and a unit of 40 to take all 4.

[DestroyerBirb]

On 3/13/2019 at 5:49 AM, Ratcliff said:

 

It's also quite pointless. What do you need to wound 183 times? 

Have you heard of a certain impossible khorne dragon? Or beastclaw Raiders, or Exalted Daemons (They are insanely hard to kill, all of them)

[DestroyerBirb]

If I had some allies not in pestilins, and I had Plague monks and plague censer bearers, could they still be battlelines?

Also, is this a good list?

Leaders 6/8

Plague Priest 80

Grey Seer 120 Allied

Plague Priest on Plague Furnace 180

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell 200 Allied

Verminlord Corruptor 260

Warpgnaw Verminlord 320 General with Command Trait and Artefact 

Battlelines 4/4

x40 Plague Monks

x40 Plague Monks

x40 Plague Monks

x20 Plague Censer Bearers

Artillery 2/5

Plagueclaw 160

Warp Lightning Cannon 180 Allied

Endless Spells

Either Bell of Doom 40 or Vermintide 40 

2500/2500 Allied 500/500

Edited June 20, 2019 by DestroyerBirb
Forgot Something

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, DestroyerBirb said:

If I had some allies not in pestilins, and I had Plague monks and plague censer bearers, could they still be battlelines?

Also, is this a good list?

Leaders 6/8

Plague Priest 80

Grey Seer 120 Allied

Plague Priest on Plague Furnace 180

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell 200 Allied

Verminlord Corruptor 260

Warpgnaw Verminlord 320 General with Command Trait and Artefact 

Battlelines 4/4

x40 Plague Monks

x40 Plague Monks

x40 Plague Monks

x20 Plague Censer Bearers

Artillery 2/5

Plagueclaw 160

Warp Lightning Cannon 180 Allied

Endless Spells

Either Bell of Doom 40 or Vermintide 40 

2500/2500 Allied 500/500

Welll there’s just one problem with playing the skaven in total.

sure you could take allies, just not any other skaven units if you want to keep Plague monks and censer as battleline.

The only allies skaven have when being played in a Skaventide army is nurgle when the general himself has the pestilence keyword.

skaven in total cannot be allied at all anymore, unless your opponent will allow you to do so.

[DestroyerBirb]

8 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Welll there’s just one problem with playing the skaven in total.

sure you could take allies, just not any other skaven units if you want to keep Plague monks and censer as battleline.

The only allies skaven have when being played in a Skaventide army is nurgle when the general himself has the pestilence keyword.

skaven in total cannot be allied at all anymore, unless your opponent will allow you to do so.

Aren’t Allies counted as a second line of defence thing? Like a seperate army, sorta? (I have no idea how to explain it) Won’t the allied not count as part of the army itself?

Also, is the list up above any good?

[daviseford]

Hey guys, I just added Skaven to the AoS Reminders App. It has all clans ready to use! Skaven has been the most requested army for this tool, by far - and I can understand why after adding SO many rules to the code

If you haven't heard of/used AOS Reminders yet, give it a whirl - enter your army, traits, artifacts, etc, and it'll spit out a nicely printable list that you can take with you to tournaments. Very helpful for army with lots of stuff happening in each phase - like Skaven!

I need a favor from you guys - please go through and check out the rules and make sure I have them right.  I did my best to keep up with the battletome, but please, check it out. Leave any issues here on TGA, or on Github here: https://github.com/daviseford/aos-reminders/issues

[Skreech Verminking]

10 hours ago, DestroyerBirb said:

Aren’t Allies counted as a second line of defence thing? Like a seperate army, sorta? (I have no idea how to explain it) Won’t the allied not count as part of the army itself?

Also, is the list up above any good?

No not really.

Allies are basically well units from other armies that you can take, till you hit a certain point limit.

The army which units can be allied with each army are noted down in a allies table.

for the skaven you c an find it under the points table in the skaventide battletome.

for armies that lack any battletomes at the end of each grand allegiance point review.

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Ninelives]

On 3/12/2019 at 2:58 PM, Magnus The Blue said:

True, but even at 680, 183 wounds from one turn of combat is just rude.

On the dual blades Vs blades and staves, I think the main considerations are 1) how big your units are and 2) how many Plague Furnaces your running. big units and those supported with Furnaces are going to do better with Staves, small/unsupported units are better with dual blades.

This aside I think the main issue pure Clan Pestilence list are facing is getting around the board and putting early pressure on opponents. Gnaw wholes help a bit and Veminlords are obviously much faster than anything else we have, but other than that what tricks to we have to stop being out manoeuvred? 

-Filling the board with bodies is a solution of sorts (5+ units of 40 plague monks), but pushing 200+ models around isn't my idea of fun.

-Plague Catapults give us an option of early pressure, but feel over priced  compared to our other options and become really bad against any opponent without units with 10+ models.

-Magic is another option, but we rely on a master-clan general and the Verminlord as only source of casting.  I think Warp Lightening Vortex is a great way to 'encourage' enemies to come out of their deployment zone. I wonder if it's worth going for Thanquil as general and stilling him next to a Gnaw hole turn one for +3 to cast it. and a solid centrepiece for the army (Master of Magic Verminlord is a cheaper option with +2 to cast).

Thoughts?

Just had an idea. Didn't caught up with whole thread so might have been suggested. What about allying Gutrot and 5 blightkings to force the opponent to watch their back ?

[dclandis]

I've officially shelved my Verminlord Corruptor for another Plague Furnace  after the points change.  Anybody else?  Sad day.

[wander]

It's been a while, though finally got to relook over my Pestilens list with the new points and the price hikes for the Plague Furnace and the 40 Plague Monk blobs. I'm left wondering now in needing to reduce the Plague Monk numbers if I should still add in the Chronomantic Cogs for my Verminlord Corruptor. I'm really lax to drop the Corruptor myself as it's my lone Wizard to counter enemy spell-casting, also my current list does include a Plagueclaw Catapult, though as I mostly face off against Nighthaunt, I use that to character snipe and also it's my lone ranged support too.

I'm also considering with Cogs at 80pts, that using Lauchon the Soulseeker at 60pts for a possible Endless Spell, though with Gnawholes, it seems a little superfluous.

Current list atm looks something like this:

Plague Furnace (General) + master of rot and ruin, +liber bubonicus (200)

Plague Furnace (200)

Verminlord Corruptor (280) + 2nd relic (undecided atm)

40x Monks (staves) (280)

40x Monks (staves) (280)

40x Monks (staves) (280)

20x Monks (staves) (160)

Plagueclaw Catapult (160)

Congregation of Filth (160)

--

I could replace the Congregation with another Plagueclaw. The 2nd artifact isn't a huge thing to lose, though more concerned on what to shift around for the Cogs. Could drop the Congregation, bump the last Monk group to x30 and get the Cogs that way.

What do you all think would work?

[Kraxriket]

Since allies don't count when calculating battlelines then I should be able to ally other skaventide units in a pestilens army. This whole rule of "all units must be pestilens" don't apply to the allied units and scroll builder shows this as well.

The question then is whether or not they get to benefit from the skaventide allegiance. Say I ally some ratling guns and a warlock engineer, will they get the skryre warp sparks? They have the correct keyword so really it should not be a problem, right?