AoS 2 - Clan Pestilens Discussion

[HorseOnABeachBall]

So I got my first two games of AoS2 in. Here's some initial thoughts on a Pestilens Horde.

- Monks, still seem to be doing better for me in units of 20. More threat vectors, less chance of a catastrophic loss.

- Gave my general 'Architect of Death' and had him hang out with a battery of three plague claws. Against Death, the recursion might have made my battery negligible , but I was actually stacking around 7-8 wounds on his big characters per turn. I asked my opponent about the effect of my plagueclaws and he said it definitely forced him to play his characters back. Out of the three shots, I was landing about 2 per turn. Those two hits always wounded. ' Architect of Death' never factored in.  The points drop feels nice, but overall I still feel that trading 20 rats for a plagueclaw is most of the time a poor trade. Going to play a few more games with this configuration. Might even toss in a 4th catapult for lulz.

- Great Plagues are still a fluffy but poor allegiance feature. You can't control which priest hits one, and you can't control when you hit one. Not worth much tactical discussion IMO.

- Pestilens items are poor. The only ones worth including seem to be the Vexlers shroud and the Liber Bubonicus. Even then, the generic items seem better meta choices.

- Plague Priests are an interesting choice. They're cheap. 80pts for a character is right about what I want to pay for one. They sadly don't count as a wizard, so scoring on that one scenario becomes not an option. Most of my opponents kill lone characters as a reflex and this hasn't changed in AoS2. So far they've died to spells/endless spells/mortal wounds. PP's are basically just support. Considering spending the 20 pts to upgrade them to Grey Seers.

- Corruptors seem like the big winners in AoS2. Casting two spells a turn and access to new lores and items is a huge plus.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by HorseOnABeachBall

[tolstedt]

12 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Yeah, it's a little less restrictive now that you can take Nurgle as allies as opposed to Nurgle Daemons.  I think I'm still going to downgrade Pestilens allegiance. Maggotkin followed by GA: Chaos seem like better choices for a Pestilens army. The new command point system seems like a major boon for our stinky mice!

 

Any worthwhile command abilities from allies that you've found?

I think IP is strong now for horde armies. In many of my games the opponent just killed the unit of 40 rats that didn't have IP on them. Being able to react is great.

[sorokyl]

2 hours ago, tolstedt said:

Any worthwhile command abilities from allies that you've found?

 

Run nurgle allegiance and take the glottkin=)  especially if equipped with staffs, the damage is insane. 

If you really want pestilens, you can fit Oghotts Daemonspew in your allies.   Pick a nurgle unit and reroll failed wound rolls. Pairs great with Contaigion banner. 

[wander]

Plague Monks are only Battleline with the Pestilens allegiance however. So running Nurgle Maggotkin allegiance makes a force less about the Monks at that point.

Fair point to have Monks maybe not in max unit size. Atm I'm running blobs of 30, just so if they take casualties I can still benefit from the 20+ needed for the reroll charges of a Congregation. I'd much rather save my Command Points for 'Gouge-Tear their Eyes' and Inspiring Presence. I've found against small, for example 5-man units, Monks in the back may not be able to attack as they're outside of 2", really reducing the effectiveness of paying out for big blobs and buckets of dice to attack. That said being able to now wrap around a lil bit in 2nd edition helps get a few more cheeky strikes in.

 

Inspiring Presence is great now if you have the Command Points to pull it off! I did however play a game before and accidentally had a blob of Monks outside the bubble to gain IP and they got decimated, so for sure make sure you got a Hero nearby when you know your Monks are gonna be taking a hit.

I feel having 3 Plague Claws in a 2k army is still alot of points on ranged support. 480 atm, that's 1/4 of the list just on three ranged attacks. Range is amazing and so is the damage, though they have to hit first. Anyone know any competitive ranged support that can throw out more attacks? I lean to Skryre for options, as I think the only thing Nurgle has are the Plague Drones. That said, am I missing a Command Ability from an allied Hero that could help out?

[tolstedt]

59 minutes ago, wander said:

Anyone know any competitive ranged support that can throw out more attacks?

3x poison wind mortar is simply better than the catapult.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

3 hours ago, wander said:

Plague Monks are only Battleline with the Pestilens allegiance however. So running Nurgle Maggotkin allegiance makes a force less about the Monks at that point.

 

 

Thats what I call the Nurgle tax. In AoS1, the nurgle tax came out to 180pts. AoS2 brings the tax up to 270, but you can still definitely make it all about the monks. 200+ plague monks is still very doable. Maggotkin also lets you get rid of plague priests altogether, not to mention access to summoning.

[wander]

I see. I've yet to play with a Plague Priest, so I guess they're pretty squishy. I'll talk more on the Plague Furnace another time.

As for the Plague Wind Mortars, they look totally fluffy, thoug Geedubs has stopped producing them, which gives me a bit of a sad. Tempted by Doomwheels though I'll see how the Ratling Guns go.

I'm more a fan of them throwing out more dice for hit rolls than gambling on a single attack for multiple damage. And with the Ratling Guns, they make fluffy Skryre thralls seeking amnesty after the Year of the Drowned Rat, plus there's no real reason not to gamble on a d6 for the 4d6 shots, it's only on a 1 that they'll suffer d3 mortal wounds, it's fluffy the Pestilens wouldn't care if they did wounded and it'll happen maybe once a game they'll damage themselves from doing 4d6 shots.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Logged a few more games with my 3 plagueclaw build. I'm about 99% convinced that the only thing that works in Pestilens are the plague monks. My next build will be;

Corruptor

Grey Seer

Grey Seer

Grey Seer

(bunch of endless spells)

and the rest of the points spent on plague monks.

[Mayple]

9 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Logged a few more games with my 3 plagueclaw build. I'm about 99% convinced that the only thing that works in Pestilens are the plague monks. My next build will be;

Corruptor

Grey Seer

Grey Seer

Grey Seer

(bunch of endless spells)

and the rest of the points spent on plague monks.

The furnace with Verminous valour is surprisingly tanky, since it also gains 'look out sir' But yeah, I agree about the monks. But they're really good!

[tolstedt]

11 hours ago, HorseOnABeachBall said:

Logged a few more games with my 3 plagueclaw build. I'm about 99% convinced that the only thing that works in Pestilens are the plague monks. My next build will be;

Corruptor

Grey Seer

Grey Seer

Grey Seer

(bunch of endless spells)

and the rest of the points spent on plague monks.

Yes you don't need rabid fever if you just take more rats

[wander]

Atm I kinda agree that say, one Plague Furnace is probably worth it though. As mentioned it can 'Look out Sir' and otherwise has the same wounds and save off memory as the Verminlord (I'm a fan of the Verminlord as it's our lone Wizard and is decently tanky and killy too, I always take one in any list I make).

Rabid Fever guarantees you can do some damage even when the Monks are getting killed by the enemy. Correct me if I'm wrong, though say a blob has been buffed by 'Gouge-Tear their Eyes!', each slain rat can do three foetid blade attacks each. There is the Icon of Pestilence which has a similar mechanic, though I think potentially you're going to do more wounds with Monks in a Rabid Fever that have been charged and the Icon is more of a help for a few cheeky more, rather than a worthwhile full replacement.

I wouldn't take atm more than one Furnace, especially as Congregation of Filth not only got a price bump though is worded as '2 or more units of Plague Monks' for it's special rule, so you could technically have four blobs of Monks with 6+ FNP around the solo Furnace. That and Congregation or 50 vanilla Monks is a bit of a debatable choice, though I see a good application of Rabid Fever and 6+ FNP being a great boon to cause more carnage because rats are squishy and sometimes picking our fights isn't an option.

Plus it's another tanky model to serve as a distraction carnifex so your Monks can be left alone to Ob Sec an Objective or two make it pretty good IMO. Only need the one though, I'll say that.

[Oldmanlee]

Anyone had any success running pestilence under the maggotkin rules is it better? 

[Johnny Pestilens]

On 7/11/2018 at 9:10 AM, Oldmanlee said:

Anyone had any success running pestilence under the maggotkin rules is it better? 

I tried it in a few games but personally felt that Pestilens units, in particular Plague Monks don't really make the most of them. 

All the Maggotkin rules are kind of geared around staying alive, whereas the rats should be disposable....throw them in, kill then watch them blow up.

The Feculent Gnarlmaw is nice for a bit of speed though.

[5kaven5lave]

Sorry for asking a question that’s been asked so many times before but in the new edition is it still ok to have one of all (4?) variations of banners / musicians etc. (as well as 1 scroll / book rat) in a unit of Monks?

Cheers. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Have any of you entertained the thought of allying in a Warpgnaw Verminlord?  His spell is short-range but can snipe 5 wound heroes outright on a 5+, and not to mention his ability to deepstrike a large amount of Plague Monks to a flank.

[Oldmanlee]

39 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Sorry for asking a question that’s been asked so many times before but in the new edition is it still ok to have one of all (4?) variations of banners / musicians etc. (as well as 1 scroll / book rat) in a unit of Monks?

Cheers. 

I've not seen anything that says you can't take both banners and musicians  not sure on the book or scroll as I think you can only have one unit leader 

 

34 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Have any of you entertained the thought of allying in a Warpgnaw Verminlord?  His spell is short-range but can snipe 5 wound heroes outright on a 5+, and not to mention his ability to deepstrike a large amount of Plague Monks to a flank.

He's on my list to pick up and try for just both the reason you posted 

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Have any of you entertained the thought of allying in a Warpgnaw Verminlord?  His spell is short-range but can snipe 5 wound heroes outright on a 5+, and not to mention his ability to deepstrike a large amount of Plague Monks to a flank.

Tried it. Works great

A -lot- better than two warpdrill teams with 80 accompanying Plague Monks not showing up for 3 rounds, I can tell you that! *Grumble grumble* 

The consistent nature of his deepstriking makes it very much worth the cost. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

This faction interests me greatly, and sold off the elves - so I've been theorycrafting on this one for the new edition.

So in summation it looks like:

- Congregation of Filth looks like a great value
- Load up on tons of Plague Monks
- Take the priests for their prayers
- Take a Verminlord for the Command Ability
- Ally in Warpgnaw Verminlord for another Wizard and deepstrike, snaking a few models of the Plague Monks towards your furnace to allow a reroll of the charge

The synergy between having your monks sacrifice themselves, throw scores of attacks to attempt a few mortal wounds.  Was thinking of a list along the lines of:

Allegiance: Pestilens
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Warpgnaw Verminlord (320)
- Allies
Plague Furnace (180)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus 
Plague Priest with Warpstone-tipped Staff (80)
Plague Priest with Warpstone-tipped Staff (80)
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
Congregation of Filth (170)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 320 / 400
Wounds: 184

Thoughts?  Taking lens because of... how many wizards there are now.

[5kaven5lave]

Could go for Ulgu and take the Sword of Judgement? Dropping Aethervoid would get you another CP too unless you really want it. 

[WAAAGHdogg15]

What is a Warpgnaw Verminlord? Can’t find a scroll for this. Where’s it from?

[Lazaris]

It's a Forgeworld unit... and a great one!

[WAAAGHdogg15]

Okay, found it. Looks pretty tasty. Is it really much better than the other verminlord options though? How many points is it?

[Mayple]

4 minutes ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

Okay, found it. Looks pretty tasty. Is it really much better than the other verminlord options though? How many points is it?

320.

[SolarBur]

Hi all

I've been out of the game for a good while now. Just looking through the books that i do own and... well its hard to stop grinning at the clan pestilens antics. So maybes at the end of the year i might try to kick of the new year with a tide of sick filthy rats. 

I spend a bit of time just watching and reading battle reports, keeping my distance from the hobby side (loooong story ^^;;;), but still checking up on things every so often just to see whats new and fun. I see a lot of people sticking in wizards into armies for the endless spells and dispelling enemy spells. 

But has anyone tried running the pestilens like a beastclaw army ? 

... Yeah i might have to explain that one, my mind is a bit weird with the heat XD

I mean along the lines of just skipping the wizard and focusing on what the army does best. In the pestilens case its just bodies to drown your opponent in while they pray to whatever deity that their magic and shooting can stem the tide. I've seen verminlords taken in 1000pts - 1500pts just for the magic safety and little attack buff. Fair enough at 2000pts when you've got your swarm going, but for the price of at least another 30 rats, is that worth it ? I see a lot of army lists come along the lines of safety and artillery, but as has been said here a few times, the plague monks themselves are pretty fearsome and it doesn't take a lot to get them going.  

Again I haven't played in a long while, but just looking and reading i'm wondering if anyone has tried the pure pestilens without the verminlord in 1000pt - 1500pt games. I expect some one sided losses, but i'm keen to hear the victorys through weight of numbers if any. 

Thanks for listening to my ramblings ^^;;

Edited July 16, 2018 by SolarBur
needed to add something

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, SolarBur said:

Hi all

I've been out of the game for a good while now. Just looking through the books that i do own and... well its hard to stop grinning at the clan pestilens antics. So maybes at the end of the year i might try to kick of the new year with a tide of sick filthy rats. 

I spend a bit of time just watching and reading battle reports, keeping my distance from the hobby side (loooong story ^^;;;), but still checking up on things every so often just to see whats new and fun. I see a lot of people sticking in wizards into armies for the endless spells and dispelling enemy spells. 

But has anyone tried running the pestilens like a beastclaw army ? 

... Yeah i might have to explain that one, my mind is a bit weird with the heat XD

I mean along the lines of just skipping the wizard and focusing on what the army does best. In the pestilens case its just bodies to drown your opponent in while they pray to whatever deity that their magic and shooting can stem the tide. I've seen verminlords taken in 1000pts - 1500pts just for the magic safety and little attack buff. Fair enough at 2000pts when you've got your swarm going, but for the price of at least another 30 rats, is that worth it ? I see a lot of army lists come along the lines of safety and artillery, but as has been said here a few times, the plague monks themselves are pretty fearsome and it doesn't take a lot to get them going.  

Again I haven't played in a long while, but just looking and reading i'm wondering if anyone has tried the pure pestilens without the verminlord in 1000pt - 1500pt games. I expect some one sided losses, but i'm keen to hear the victorys through weight of numbers if any. 

Thanks for listening to my ramblings ^^;;

In my experience, the rat horde/beastclaw approach grows stronger the fewer points you play with, simply because the tools to eradicate them are not often present, or numerous enough to chew through it all before getting drowned in rats. 

As the points increase, so do the damage output of the opponent, but most problems and matchups can still (very) effectively be solved by throwing more rats at the problem.

And if you play to win, most magic problems are sorted with a simple plague furnace with Verminous Valour and a Refraction Lens from Hysh No need to worry about spells if they can't hurt you, and your prayers can't be dispelled, so compensate with that. Makes Lord Kroak cry, I can tell you that

Edited July 16, 2018 by Mayple