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AoS 2 - Clan Pestilens Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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Hi guys, tomorrow i will play a game for a campaign that me and my friends are playng. I will face an idoneth army at 750 points and the battleplan will be Repositioning globe (if this is the name in english)

I was thinking to play:

1 Grey Seer (general, spell to attack after death, still do not know the trait)

1 Plague Furnace (with liber bubonicus)

40x monks

20x monks

10x monks

Still do not know how i will play the monk (if 40 and 30, 40-20-10, etc). I can also take away 10 monks to add vermintide endless spell but i'm not sure it would be worth.

what do you think?

Edited by Axter
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I'd consolidate the 20 and 10 into a group of 30, until they get their first casuality they'll get +1 to wound and they'll last longer in theory as one blob.

Depends how much you want to be spread out to catch the objective, though at 750pts, I don't see your opponent having lots of options to be spread much out either. I can understand wanting to be spread out a bit more for manouvrability and a better chance to reach the Orb, though the gnawholes should help out there some. Thin the plague monks down too much and they can be easily wiped out by anyone.

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1 hour ago, wander said:

I'd consolidate the 20 and 10 into a group of 30, until they get their first casuality they'll get +1 to wound and they'll last longer in theory as one blob.

Depends how much you want to be spread out to catch the objective, though at 750pts, I don't see your opponent having lots of options to be spread much out either. I can understand wanting to be spread out a bit more for manouvrability and a better chance to reach the Orb, though the gnawholes should help out there some. Thin the plague monks down too much and they can be easily wiped out by anyone.

The other option is a Warpgnaw Verminlord with the item for feel no pain at 5+ and the command trait to move the wound to close skaven at 5+ and the magic to teleport an hero skaven everywhere at 9 from the enemy, with him i can play 60 monks (40 + 20+vermintide endless or 30+30) or a verminlord corruptor and 10 monks (10 and 10)

what do you think would do the job better?

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Had a game tonight, 2K vs snake-heavy temple nest DoK.

Was limited by the models I actually own and ran a grey seer general, congregation of filth (40, 40, 20, 10 monks) a foul rain (2 catapults) and another furnace.

The entire foul rain got teleported onto and destroyed top of turn 1, bad positioning on my part and a lucky charge roll, so no input on that part.

However from that point mass monks just... rampaged... through everything...

So is trying to mix it up a fools errand? Is moar monkz just the answer to everything? The point spent on the foulrain could have been another 60-odd monks... 

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If your artillery was taken off the board turn one then chances are it never got to do anything it should have save be an expensive and short term distraction for that game. It doesn't mean the units are wrong, but that your deployment messed up. And you admit to that freely which means you already know the error was yours on that part. 

I'd run them again as the risk with going all monks is that you wind up without options. Perhaps against a DoK list that wants to be in close combat you're fine because monks and daughters are both going to slam into each other. But go against an army with some range and suddenly those catapults might come into their own to weaken, threaten or even destroy.

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If u don't want to use catapults u need at least to play as 2-3 different blobs of furnaces and Monks since one big blob is easy to counter 

 

In my point of view 2-3 catapults with +2 / +2 are a huge distraction and your OPPO will always need to give you an opening to kill them

Edited by calcysimon
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Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Plague Priest (80)
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace(180)
- Artefact: The Foul Pendant 
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (200)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic 
- Artefact: Skavenbrew 
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace(180)

Battleline
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades

War Machines
Plagueclaw (160)
Plagueclaw (160)
Plagueclaw (160)

Battalions
Foulrain Congregation (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 182
 

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12 hours ago, Axter said:

The other option is a Warpgnaw Verminlord with the item for feel no pain at 5+ and the command trait to move the wound to close skaven at 5+ and the magic to teleport an hero skaven everywhere at 9 from the enemy, with him i can play 60 monks (40 + 20+vermintide endless or 30+30) or a verminlord corruptor and 10 monks (10 and 10)

what do you think would do the job better?

Verminlords get 5+ FNP as standard, they don't need the Suspicious Stone artefact on them for that. If you wanted a Masterclan artefact, the Gnawshard, Skavenbrew and Staff are the best options. I'd go Gnawshard as that can essentially make sure a support Hero dies and takes out enemy synergy. A Verminlord Warpseer and Verminlord Corruptor cost the same amount of points.

If you're doing 750pts, it's a bit thin on troops, though you could do a Verminlord (of your choice of Corruptor, Warbringer or Warpseer), a Plague Furnace and two units of 20 Monks, then you got 30pts left to grab an Endless Spell.

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10 hours ago, calcysimon said:

If u don't want to use catapults u need at least to play as 2-3 different blobs of furnaces and Monks since one big blob is easy to counter 

 

In my point of view 2-3 catapults with +2 / +2 are a huge distraction and your OPPO will always need to give you an opening to kill them

Fair point, though also a Foulrain Congregation costs 670pts, so it fails at being a Distraction Carnifex as that's a substantial amount to spend for that. Note you have to field 3 Catapults to qualify to purchase the Foulrain bonus. The cost is near a third of the army's points on one gambit.

Two Catapults at 320pts is more understandable and easier to throw into a 2k list, if still not ideal when ideally a distraction to the enemy should be fairly cheap points-wise. I'm cool with this, though I worry about my dice-rolling and I'd have rather they be 2d6 1dmg attacks than a solo 2d6 dmg attack that needs (an admittedly easy to pull off) hit roll, then a wound roll then the enemy gets a save (though Rend -2 helps there too).

Basically for me right now it's not an issue of the Catapult's value, as they're decent enough, though they're expensive points-wise which is off-putting when the whole schtick of Pestilens is being a heavy hitting glass cannon horde. 670pts could get near 100 Monks.

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True but plagueclaws just provide a totally other role than plaguemonks. 30 range and no need to see the target is vs specific synergy heavy lists pretty strong.

To be fair those units are mostly a Single target... so 3 to hit and only D6 dmg.

I think about fielding 2 plagueclaws in my nurgle list combined with epidemus--> rerolling 1s to hit und 1s to wound.

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Sure. Currently I'm leaning partly on a list with one Plagueclaw.

Something like a Verminlord Corruptor, 2x Plague Furnaces (one as General with the Master of Rot & Ruin w/ Liber Bubonicus combo), 4x 40 Plague Monks, 1x Plague Claw, 1x Congregation of Filth, then 100pts are left for a Vermintide & Chronomantic Cogs.

The Congregation is there mainly for the drop reduction more than anything, so could be replaced with a 2nd Plague Claw as they cost the same in points.

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20 hours ago, Ajay29 said:

However from that point mass monks just... rampaged... through everything...

So is trying to mix it up a fools errand? Is moar monkz just the answer to everything? The point spent on the foulrain could have been another 60-odd monks... 

Mathematically I'm pretty confident that Plague Monks are by far the most broken warscroll in the game right now. People complain about Witch Aelves, and Plague Monks are basically more efficient than Witch Aelves in nearly every way. At baseline they are the most offensively efficient warscroll that I have ever seen while being respectable on defensive efficiency, and with full buffs they are literally several times better than anything I've calculated.

While I don't think Plague Monk spam is necessarily uncounterable, I do think that Pestilens has a very real chance of being "the new DoK", only far more than DoK ever was.

On 2/21/2019 at 3:32 AM, Alezya said:

You don't play one drop armies to play first.

You play one drop armies to be the one who has the choice to go first or second. And that is imho a key to success. 

Some lists will prefer going first, for an alpha strike for example. Or just for rushing objectives and sitting onto it for the whole game (it's the game for Sylvaneth, for example). Some will not and will prefer the opportunity to double turn, potentially.

Some scenarios will make you score more points by going second. Giving yourself the possibility of having to decide who will have the 3 pts and who will have the 1 pt. 

According to the matchup, the scenario, the list, the table and terrain disposal, being the one able to choose whether to go first or second is quite strong, I believe. 

Yes, I understand this. My point was that as a 4 drop list, you are going to get the choice of going first or second most of the time. Against armies where you actively want to go second, you're really very likely to have the choice as most lists that are under 4 drops are alpha strike lists. Against alpha strike lists, you don't actually get much benefit out of choosing to go first because you can't really out alpha them, so you're going to be taking the hit anyway. 

The question isn't whether being a 1 drop is good -- it definitely is a good thing -- but whether it is worth the amount of resources it takes to go from 4 drop to 1 drop. I suspect that it isn't, mostly because I think this army stands to benefit less from choosing to go first/second than most armies, and therefore it won't be worth spending 270 points for a marginal improvement in the odds of being able to do that (even when factoring in the extra cp/artefacts). Time and playtesting will tell, however!

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Agree... meta could see a lot of pestilence monks spam until the players adjust and go even more on horde killing stuff. But still 200 monks with battleshock immunity you will have a hard time to remove even with strong horde clear mechanism... and as you pointed out monks are not only a lot of wounds to remove from the board, they are a tier1 hammer unit as well :D

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1 minute ago, Zplash said:

Agree... meta could see a lot of pestilence monks spam until the players adjust and go even more on horde killing stuff. But still 200 monks with battleshock immunity you will have a hard time to remove even with strong horde clear mechanism... and as you pointed out monks are not only a lot of wounds to remove from the board, they are a tier1 hammer unit as well :D

Not just tier 1, but tier 0. If it made sense to say "tier -1", I'd say that. The offensive scaling on Plague Monks is just completely messed up. To use a Magic analogy:

Lightning Bolt is a historically good magic card. One red mana, three damage. Witch Aelves are like Lightning Bolt. Plague Monks are like a spell that reads one red mana, nine damage.

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I still haven't played a game against DOK yet but from what I understand its their defensive power granted by a 5+ rerollable save after the save is what makes them so strong (when coupled with their offense).  Plague monks are definitely looking strong but I think they will be vulnerable enough to counter charges/shooting to keep them from overrunning the meta.

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I feel in playing that the Monks still need their synergies and buffs etc to work their best, I still have a feeling that whilst there are buffs for sure on the Monks now (6+ with the option for 6++ and battleshock immunity along with rabid-rabid, overwhelming mass and rerolls atop of more) I still can't shake with allies now denied and some rewordings there have been some stealth nerfs to Pestilens too.

Anyway, I went and flicked through what Pestilens has available and whilst we throw out a whole bunch of mortal wounds and have lots of buffs we can put on other friendly units, I was surprised to see outside of the -1 Bravery a Plagueclaw does that we don't have debuffs or ways to mess up the enemy play plan.

Also with the new wording on warscrolls I want to relook over the Realm Artefacts and see what could plug some holes Pestilens has.

Open question to everyone: What do you think Pestilens is lacking in right now and what would you do to remedy that (including adding in a Realm Artefact if running a battallion in your list to do so)??

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Played a one day tournament yesterday and achieved my first ever podium finish. Won 3/3 and bagged third place. Absolutely chuffed. New tome took away a lot of my favourite things, but got some boosts in much needed areas, particularly the resilience and damage potential of HQ units and some great battleshock immunity. My list below with summary of matches:

Leaders
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace(180)
- Artefact: The Ragged Cloak 
Verminlord Corruptor (260)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 

Battleline
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (160)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Umbral Spellportal (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 197

Game 1: Border War v LoN

Never played against the big guy before and it was tough. Got extremely lucky, the only Nagash spells I managed to dispel were his Umbral Spellportals, every turn. They could have facilitated horrendous damage if I hadn't. 

My opponent also made a mis step which allowed me to storm on to his objective for 4 points mid game. Lucky too, because he slowly gained control of a board side and I only won by two points in the end

Game 2: Better Part of Valor v Dispossessed:

A real grind this one. All his men were on objectives in cover, giving him 3+ rerollable saves ignoring rend. He hadn't much in the way of offence after my Corruptor used a spell portal to cast dreaded plague on his shooty unit, wiping out more than half of them. Basically threw rank after rank of plague monks at him to dislodge him off one objective, giving me the edge and the win.

Game 3: Starstrike v  Gloomspite Gitz

Let him go first, reckoned a double turn would be extremely advantageous and was right . Used Dreaded Plague to evaporate most of his Goblins through the portal, and held on to the middle objective for a couple of turns with my dear life using the warpseer and Monks. Narrow win in the end.

 

Very pleased with how it went, though still have to fix my list a little ahead of the WHW heats this weekend.

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7 hours ago, BeefyLemur said:

Can I use a plague priest on plague furnace for a foulrain congregation battalion? 

No, it has to be a Plague Priest on foot.

As a rule, if something is written in Caps Lock, it's a keyword and then it can be anything with that keyword. If it is written normally, it has to be that exact warscroll.

Edited by Mutter
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So reading the Liber Bubonicus "The bearer can use the Plague Prayer ability from the Plague Priest(Not bold) warscroll. If the bearer is a Plague Priest(Bold), then it can use the Plague Prayers ability twice in you hero phase." So notably the plague furnace has the Noxious Prayers ability meaning this does not allow him to use those prayers twice, BUT with how the item is worded given he has the Plague Priest keyword(which when something is referred to in bold it is referring to the keyword) this means he can use his Noxious Prayers ability once and use the Plague Prayers ability twice. Any thoughts on this? I'm not saying this is intentional just that this is how it reads, but todays FAQ didn't say anything about it.

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