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AoS 2 - Clan Pestilens Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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Folks been thinking about mixed skaven with a heavy influence from plague monks.

Corrupter 260

Plague furnace 180

Plague furnace 180

Warlock engineer 100 item that gives plus one to hit and wound on a skaven tide unit.

40 plague monks 240

40 plague monks 240

40 plague monks 240

20 clan rats 120

20 clan rats 120

20 clan rats 120

This is a skaven tide list but i reckon it could be strong. Clan rats for objectives.

Furnace plus one attack on units of monks. Corrupter gives reroll hits Units of 40 monks. Can have two banners.

Contagion banner mortal chance when they die. Pestilence 2 damage on rolls of six. Doom gong plus one to run and charge. Bale chime 6s to hit increase rend.

Its still 200 points under.

Monks would be armed with blade and stave so with prayer from furnace on one unit 7 attacks each when they charge. 

If using skaven tide ability units of monks can hit on 3s wound on 3s with blad3 and 4s and 3s with stave. Plus one unit could have the skyre buff to be 2s and 2s and 3s and 2s if that item can be used in them.

Looks really strong 

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36 minutes ago, Andy Bryan said:

Folks been thinking about mixed skaven with a heavy influence from plague monks.

Corrupter 260

Plague furnace 180

Plague furnace 180

Warlock engineer 100 item that gives plus one to hit and wound on a skaven tide unit.

40 plague monks 240

40 plague monks 240

40 plague monks 240

20 clan rats 120

20 clan rats 120

20 clan rats 120

This is a skaven tide list but i reckon it could be strong. Clan rats for objectives.

Furnace plus one attack on units of monks. Corrupter gives reroll hits Units of 40 monks. Can have two banners.

Contagion banner mortal chance when they die. Pestilence 2 damage on rolls of six. Doom gong plus one to run and charge. Bale chime 6s to hit increase rend.

Its still 200 points under.

Monks would be armed with blade and stave so with prayer from furnace on one unit 7 attacks each when they charge. 

If using skaven tide ability units of monks can hit on 3s wound on 3s with blad3 and 4s and 3s with stave. Plus one unit could have the skyre buff to be 2s and 2s and 3s and 2s if that item can be used in them.

Looks really strong 

So your saying this item is worth 460 points? If you drop the engineer and clan rats your monks should be battleline

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41 minutes ago, Andy Bryan said:

Folks been thinking about mixed skaven with a heavy influence from plague monks.

Corrupter 260

Plague furnace 180

Plague furnace 180

Warlock engineer 100 item that gives plus one to hit and wound on a skaven tide unit.

40 plague monks 240

40 plague monks 240

40 plague monks 240

20 clan rats 120

20 clan rats 120

20 clan rats 120

This is a skaven tide list but i reckon it could be strong. Clan rats for objectives.

Furnace plus one attack on units of monks. Corrupter gives reroll hits Units of 40 monks. Can have two banners.

Contagion banner mortal chance when they die. Pestilence 2 damage on rolls of six. Doom gong plus one to run and charge. Bale chime 6s to hit increase rend.

Its still 200 points under.

Monks would be armed with blade and stave so with prayer from furnace on one unit 7 attacks each when they charge. 

If using skaven tide ability units of monks can hit on 3s wound on 3s with blad3 and 4s and 3s with stave. Plus one unit could have the skyre buff to be 2s and 2s and 3s and 2s if that item can be used in them.

Looks really strong 

Get a congregation of filth to lie number of drops and get another item. You only have one good character for the "hero" scenarios. Otherwise it looks nice! I find myself auto including the warpstorm spell just because it limits my opponent so much :)

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Clan pestilens+clan moulder  as ally.

Leaders
Plague Furnace (180)
Lord Skreech Verminkin (300)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer (100)
Master Moulder (100)

 

Battleline
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
5 x Plague Censer Bearers (60)

Units
2 x Rat Ogors (100)
- Allies
2 x Rat Ogors (100)
- Allies
2 x Rat Ogors (100)
- Allies

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 360 / 400
Wounds: 173

 

Can i have some advice?

I dont know if keep the moulder clan or swap in favor of the skryre clan and use a couple of WLC.

 

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6 minutes ago, dclandis said:

What keyword made the furnace lose look out sir?  I'm not seeing why.

Because its a huge towering furnace with a skaven dancing around on top - the hero is so high up from the troops that "lookout sir" just doesn't work. It's the same as other war engines like the Cauldron from DoK (if I recall right if not then its lined up for changing).

 

Basically these items are so big that you can't feasibly see them ducking or jumping out the way. 

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16 minutes ago, Overread said:

Because its a huge towering furnace with a skaven dancing around on top - the hero is so high up from the troops that "lookout sir" just doesn't work. It's the same as other war engines like the Cauldron from DoK (if I recall right if not then its lined up for changing).

 

Basically these items are so big that you can't feasibly see them ducking or jumping out the way. 

No I can see why he’s asking...

Hero’s that are monsters don’t get look out sir. The furnace isn’t a monster so... it still gets look out sir, right?

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30 minutes ago, Ajay29 said:

No I can see why he’s asking...

Hero’s that are monsters don’t get look out sir. The furnace isn’t a monster so... it still gets look out sir, right?

Yeah, that's why I'm confused.  I'm gonna have to think about my army more than I already am if the furnace doesn't benefit from it.  🙂

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Somehow im stuck with the command ability of our verminlord corruptor...

Reroll hits in pestilence? I mean all my monks already have that? So for what is it good actually? For himself the Bell and furnance... and maybe monks with staffs. Do I miss something here?

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1 hour ago, Zplash said:

Somehow im stuck with the command ability of our verminlord corruptor...

Reroll hits in pestilence? I mean all my monks already have that? So for what is it good actually? For himself the Bell and furnance... and maybe monks with staffs. Do I miss something here?

I've been wondering the same thing.  I think monks with blade and staff is the way to go now.  Unfortunately all my models have blades.

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31 minutes ago, Uldakamedes said:

Question for you folks, do Pestiliens benefit from the Cycle of Corruption at all? since they are nurgle keyworded or it is for maggotkin and daemons of nurgle only.

 

you must choose Nurgle army or Skaventide Pestilens army. If you choose Nurgle, you use the nurgle battletome, with skaven warscrolls. But you must have plaguebearer or blightking (or generic chaos) battleline , since monks are only battleline in Pestilens army. 

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Got the Skaven Battletome today, glad to see the thread up and active. I'm running pure Pestilens still and with the ability swap arounds, I've been weighing the pros and cons on what's good. I'm also thankful for the pointer that Liber Bubonicus just allows Pestilent Prayers, not Noxious Prayers.

So I have some questions to ask and would love some help in updating my 2k list to keep my Plague Monk heavy horde!

I've moved my General to be the Plague Furnace. Seeing as it's rabid-rabid prayer is the old Corruptor command ability, I feel that strong ability needs to be supported and gave the Priest riding it the Master of Rot & Ruin warlord trait to help get that Noxious Prayer off.

Should much support be given to the Verminlord Corruptor now? His command ability is meh and I find it hard to justify saving points for extra Command Points which seemed a good thing before, given how good 'gouge-tear' was. This ties into the Monks and Congregation of Filth battallion. Used to run this to give my Monks a bit of survivability and get +1 command point and bonus artefact. Now Monks finally get a 6+ save naturally and I'm not so worried on command points now, 160pts for a 6+ fnp is very, very meh, even with the command point and artefact. Still, I like the Brooding Blade and also the Fumigatous for him. No point giving him Liber Bubonicus as for 160pts I could just buy two Priests on foot instead for more chances to get a Great Plague.

Finally for now at least, pure Pestilens is still lacking in range. Not a fan of rolling a single hit with the Plagueclaw Catapult and it's super lacking in wounds. I feel atm that I'd want to ally a unit (or two) of Plague Drones in for ranged support (now Ratling Guns aren't an option to keep the Monks as battleline). Because the Corruptor has Nurgle Daemon Hero in his keywords, having them near him doubles their shots to 6 and they're actually pretty damned tanky to boot.

Thoughts on this? Anything to add, agree or disagree? I'm still rolling over the changes the battletome brought and I'm sure I'm missing a neat synergy here. Though yeah, I want to keep my pure Pestilens army going, so looking at Pestilens and Nurgle options only, though realm artefacts are still a go too! I used to have the Aetherquartz Brooch on my Corruptor, though as said above, probably he can something better now, if I even keep the Congregation of Filth (probably will drop it, I dunno).

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On 2/16/2019 at 7:38 AM, wander said:

Got the Skaven Battletome today, glad to see the thread up and active. I'm running pure Pestilens still and with the ability swap arounds, I've been weighing the pros and cons on what's good. I'm also thankful for the pointer that Liber Bubonicus just allows Pestilent Prayers, not Noxious Prayers.

So I have some questions to ask and would love some help in updating my 2k list to keep my Plague Monk heavy horde!

I've moved my General to be the Plague Furnace. Seeing as it's rabid-rabid prayer is the old Corruptor command ability, I feel that strong ability needs to be supported and gave the Priest riding it the Master of Rot & Ruin warlord trait to help get that Noxious Prayer off.

Should much support be given to the Verminlord Corruptor now? His command ability is meh and I find it hard to justify saving points for extra Command Points which seemed a good thing before, given how good 'gouge-tear' was. This ties into the Monks and Congregation of Filth battallion. Used to run this to give my Monks a bit of survivability and get +1 command point and bonus artefact. Now Monks finally get a 6+ save naturally and I'm not so worried on command points now, 160pts for a 6+ fnp is very, very meh, even with the command point and artefact. Still, I like the Brooding Blade and also the Fumigatous for him. No point giving him Liber Bubonicus as for 160pts I could just buy two Priests on foot instead for more chances to get a Great Plague.

Finally for now at least, pure Pestilens is still lacking in range. Not a fan of rolling a single hit with the Plagueclaw Catapult and it's super lacking in wounds. I feel atm that I'd want to ally a unit (or two) of Plague Drones in for ranged support (now Ratling Guns aren't an option to keep the Monks as battleline). Because the Corruptor has Nurgle Daemon Hero in his keywords, having them near him doubles their shots to 6 and they're actually pretty damned tanky to boot.

Thoughts on this? Anything to add, agree or disagree? I'm still rolling over the changes the battletome brought and I'm sure I'm missing a neat synergy here. Though yeah, I want to keep my pure Pestilens army going, so looking at Pestilens and Nurgle options only, though realm artefacts are still a go too! I used to have the Aetherquartz Brooch on my Corruptor, though as said above, probably he can something better now, if I even keep the Congregation of Filth (probably will drop it, I dunno).

Very similar to my thoughts as well.  I'm gonna try out 1000 points with a furnace as the general and see how things go.  I dropped the congregation of filth and added monks.  Probably adding an endless spell too.  I'm gonna keep the Corruptor around for his spell and the bonus to casting near a gnawhole.  Bring him out late game hopefully.  Just thoughts I've had about it recently, I'm playing with them Thursday.  Should be interesting.

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Some extra thoughts since yesterday and I've had time to go over things.

Artefacts: With how the wording is currently, a Plague Furnace can use the Liber Bubonicus to have two Pestilent Prayers to go with the solo Noxious Prayer (and seemingly rerolls for all prayers) as it has the Priest keyword. This is likely as Master of Rot & Ruin as a warlord trait only does rerolls on if a general does a prayer, so it's absolutely useless on the Verminlord Corruptor now.

About the Corruptor, assuredly he's worth keeping around. He's still a great beatstick and is a Wizard, so he unbinds spells (I know an artefact also gives a Hero this ability, though there are better ones to take: Liber Bubonicus, Brooding Blade, Fumatigous + Realm artefacts). I think also depending on the list, he'd work with two Endless Spells I think really benefit Pestilens, one being the Bell of Doom for ignoring battleshock, the other being Chronomantic Cogs. Though there's gnawholes and the Monks can add +1 inch to runs & charges for including a doom gong (honestly a 40 Monk blob now has no excuse to not one of each banner and one of each instrument given what they do), I feel the Corruptor has more ease to get the Cogs off near their gnawhole of choice and really make those Monks move.

Talking about Battleshock, the Plague Furnace I feel is a really great thing to run as a pair with it's battleshock immunity Altar rule and the 'rabid-rabid' Noxious Prayer deserving to be cast more than once a turn. On first glance it's movement nerf is really limiting, though in actuality now it moves the same speed as Monks (if undamaged) if a unit of 10+ Monks are within 6" of it, RAW the Monks don't have to try and get as many bodies touching it's base to shove it anymore (Though I'll miss lobbing it across the field to charge straight into the enemy!).

Combine the Furnace's freedom in moving with the Cogs being cast by the Corruptor, add having a pair of Furnaces, one on each end of the field immunising Monk battleshock in between them & placing rabid-rabid on two units per turn and it seems fairly filthy on paper. Makes the Bell of Doom less worth it, though then I'd say if points are free then the Vermintide costs the same. Though Pestilens isn't exactly hurting to dole out Mortal Wounds now. I'd also say in a list with one Furnace that a Bell is worth it to expand the battleshock immunity if you need to do it on the cheap, points-wise.

Finally, I hope this gets FAQed, as it's unclear through wording whether a pure Pestilens army can actually take Nurgle allies and keep Monks as their battleline. I think as allies are outside the army, it's fine for Nurgle to be brought in with ally points if all the actual main Skaventide army has Pestilens as their keyword, others are being more hardline about the wording of 'all other units are Clan Pestilens' for Monks as battleline.

Feel free to comment and discuss or add something I may have missed.

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Had a chance to try out new Pestilens. Much improved and strictly better with the inclusion of GnawHoles. Ive noticed what could be a few bugs/glitches, but rules are rules and I choose not to divine intent....

 

- Plagueclaws only need to target a unit to give it  -1 bravery. Apparently even if it misses , it gets a little goop on its intended target anyway.

- Foulrain congregation requires a Plague Priest, but does not explicitly rule out a Plague Priest on a Furnace.  The battalion above it ( congregation of filth) even refers to its Plague Priest on a Furnace as a Plague priest. Interesting.

- In another twist of the English language, a Furnace counts as one of the 10 models within 6". It can push itself! Lol. Interesting to note that the models pushing the Furnace don't have to all come from the same unit. Even a Plagueclaw could help push.

 

 

Edited by HorseOnABeachBall
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Oh, and here's my list of net winners and losers for our stinky bois

 

+ Furnace. It's downright tanky now with a 4+, 5+,5+ (Verminous valor). The rusty spikes and wheels can actually hurt you now and the censer can shower your opponents with mortal wounds. I wasn't expecting the Furnace to get such a buff, so I'm pretty stoked.

+ poisonous fumes now actually impact the game. Amen to that. 

+censer bearers moved from the "hot garbage" pile to the "might try them" pile. I've had about 30 sitting there for 10 years , so yes please GW. It's very strange that they don't go on 25mm. 32mm seems awkward.

+ the biblical amount of rules on the plague monk scroll is gone. Was so bad that even longtime Pestilen players didn't know how monks actually worked. I once played against a fellow rat general who didn't know that certain banners had to be popped during hero phase etc. I didn't have the heart to tell the guy, but no more! Now in order to get the whole shebang you need 40 monks.  I still think theres a tactical value to having units of 10/20/40. In my last game I fielded 20 units of 10 and it was pretty dang effective. There were many instances where 2 immune to battle shock monks held up huge enemy units.

 

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Have won both my games using the new tome so far, I think Pestilens is a better balanced faction now, even though we lost some powerful abilities (rabid fever, wither especially)

It's great that our large heroes can't just get mortal wounded off the board with ease now, the Corruptor can actually handle himself in combat and the Furnace is an absolute effing beast. A shame about the Corruptor's command ability, which is mostly useless to Pestilens units. And there's no fecking way I'm painting 180 sticks to make use of it.

Hitting up a one-day tournament this weekend with this list, really looking forward to seeing how well the new tome fares in a competitive setting. List below

Allegiance: Skaventide (Pestilens)
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- General
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
Verminlord Corruptor (260)

Plague Furnace (180)
- Artefact: The Ragged Cloak 

Battleline
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (160)


Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
 
Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 196
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Nice catch on the Plague Furnace and it's movement. Shame it can't be boosted downfield anymore, though more reason to show it's not gonna sit and be unable to move. Can even get another Hero to send it downfield to an objective or whereever with a gnawhole too.

I missed the add of -1 Rend on the Rusty Spikes, I was used to throwing it downfield and getting 2d6 attacks on the charge so I thought that was what people meant by the buff to them. Nice to see that the crew's weapons got shifted, warpstone staff got reduced to 1 attack but got 1 Rend, though we got 6 attacks from the foetid blades from the Monks in the back!  😁

The old Rabid Fever is a sad loss, though the Contagion Banner on the Monks got the old Icon of Pestilence ability now and now the new Icon whilst losing the old Contagion Banner's mortal wounding capability (not hurting for that anymore though) now does 2 damage automatically on 6s to wound, no more needing to roll another d6 after for another 6 to unlock the extra bit of damage. Horses and roundabouts on that one depending how armoured your local meta is.

Having the Doom Gong now add +1" move to the Monks running/charging instead of subtracting it from nearby enemies I like, just as it makes what was before a slow melee unit a bit better to get around the field and make charges that much easier to pull off, making them more proactive and reaching objectives easier too.

Remember the Books of Woe on your Monk leaders now activate every hero phase, not just once a game and extra mortal wounds on a 4+ is nice when you have a good load of battleline units. I do pack woe-staves on my Monks, so having the larger blobs (30/40) does benefit me to make them wound on a 4+ due to Overwhelming Mass. Also gives my Corruptor something extra to do I suppose, though I'd probably keep my command points for more useful things. Unsure what though given Pestilens now have options for pretty much anything I could spend them on.

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On 2/14/2019 at 5:51 AM, Overread said:

Because its a huge towering furnace with a skaven dancing around on top - the hero is so high up from the troops that "lookout sir" just doesn't work. It's the same as other war engines like the Cauldron from DoK (if I recall right if not then its lined up for changing).

 

Basically these items are so big that you can't feasibly see them ducking or jumping out the way. 

I mean, I know that this all makes sense thematically, but it isn't the way the rules are written. By the rules, the Plague Furnace, Screaming Bell, and DoK Cauldrons all benefit from Look Out Sir. 

The text of the Look Out Sir rules only care if the hero has the MONSTER keyword. There is no mention of base size, model size, wound count or anything else. 

To be specific, this is the entirety of the Look Out Sir rule:

"LOOK OUT, SIR!

You must subtract 1 from hit rolls made for missile weapons if the target of the attack is an enemy HERO that is within 3" of an enemy unit that has 3 or more models. The Look Out, Sir! rule does not apply if the target HERO is a MONSTER." 

Normally I would 100% agree with you about this being likely to get FAQ'ed, but the current functionality of the rule with DoK cauldrons has been a big part of the competitive meta for quite a long time (close to a year now) and there have been two major FAQs released in that time. The GHB2018 FAQ I could give a pass on given that DoK had only been out for a few months when that FAQ was probably being worked on, but the January FAQ this year was an excellent opportunity for either the rule or the specific warscrolls to be FAQ'ed and GW didn't do it. I mean, it's certainly possible that it will get FAQed in the future but I think it's noteworthy that GW had at least one clear opportunity to FAQ it and decided not to. 

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Allegiance: Skaventide (Pestilens)
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (260)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgment

Plague Furnace (180)
- Artefact: Spellmirror (for defensive protection) but others can do as well
 
Plague Furnace (180)
-General
-Command trait: Master of Rot and Ruin (reroll dice of the prayer)
- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus (2 prayers)

Battleline
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blade and Woe stave, Contagion Banner & Icon of Pestilence
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blade and Woe stave, Contagion Banner & Icon of Pestilence
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blade and Woe stave, Contagion Banner & Icon of Pestilence
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blade and Woe stave, Contagion Banner & Icon of Pestilence

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (160)
Congregation of Filth (160)
Virulent Procession (100)

Command Points: 3
One drop
 
Everybody have a 6++ fnp, immune battleshocks, dealing mortal wound on 6+ when a model is slain, and when charging Plague monks deal:
-2+1 (charge) + 1 (prayer): 4A 3+3+ (overwhelming mass +1 to hit and wound) at 1"
-1+1 (charge) + 1 (prayer): 3A 3+4+ (overwhelming mass + 1 to hit and wound) at 2"
Rend -1 if 6s to hit rerolling hits (Corruptor's command ability), Dmg 2 if 6s to wound rerolling wounds (prayer),
 
How does the Plaguereapers rule of the VLCorruptor interact with the sword of Judgment? 
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Fairly similar to a list I was working on. Y'know, you can cheap out and get Congregation once as it's bubble has been expanded to 18" and the battallion says 2+ Plague Monk units and any wholly within that 18" are good. You can set out a blob of Plague Monks 8 across in 5 ranks, so if they're packed tight, you could get 2 blobs either side to benefit.

My list has differed in that I've questioned the need of it, though I'll likely get at least one Congregation to reduce drops. I'm then biting the bullet and getting a Plagueclaw for ranged support. The last 100pts I'm currently using for Vermintide and Chronomantic Cogs for my Verminlord to cast near a Gnawhole.

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