AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[Sartxac]

Any change for the warscroll of Soul Grinder or is only a points reduction?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Sartxac

[Grimrock]

2 hours ago, kozokus said:

Does anyone have an advice on Archaon and how to play him? i am fascinated by the command ability of his sub allegeance that determine the turn order.

Well I played him a decent amount in the past but it was all in the god marked armies. Typically there the name of the game was building a list around him so you could buff him to the nines and leverage his combat strength. Do that, kill anything that threatens him, and then let him dominate the table. 

I think that can still work in the new book. I'm planning on running some marauders since they seem to be the best target for By My Will, and then sticking as much synergy in as possible. A bloodsecrator is great for all his attack profiles, and wrathmongers if you can keep up with him. A bloodstoker is great to let him alpha strike and reroll wounds. The sorcerer is his best friend, similar to a warshrine. Maybe a harbinger of decay for resilience or a great unclean one for more speed. Lots of options but points are tight so you'll have to pick carefully. 

I haven't done a ton of list building with the everchosen subfaction yet but it doesn't seem to make anything harder. I'll spend some time on it when I get my book.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Grimrock

[Virtus-XIV]

So, someone please correct me if my math is wrong but Chaos Chosen are monstrous in terms of damage efficiency. A squad of 5 puts out 16 attacks for 7.4 damage against a 4+ save for 140 points, or 18.9 points per 1 damage. Against a 6+ this goes down to 14.3 points per 1 damage. For reference, chaos warriors with 2 hand weapons are 30.7 points per 1 damage against a 4+ and 18.4 against a 6+.

[Kurrilino]

8 hours ago, Asamu said:

Currently this is correct. Also the 6++ currently stacks, because the rule is "within range of this model" instead of "within range of any models with this ability". So 4 warshrines would grant 4 6++ saves.

It absolutely doesn't stack.

The rule says you can't stack if the buff comes from the same source. So 1 or 400 shrines make no difference. The buff comes from a shrine.

[frostfire]

Have recently watched the StD book preview from GMG. Have to say I fall in love with Nurgle shenanigan in this book in an instant. They are so tanky.

[BaronBanana]

I didn't get a good look at the rules for Varanguard, but they still seem rather pillow fisted for being 100 points each.  It's there something I'm missing?  

[kozokus]

Consider they have +1 to hit, and dammage +1 on the charge when Archaon is nearby. Plus the mark of chaos aura bonus, think about Khorne and the +1 to wound bonus.

 

[Karragon]

4 hours ago, Kurrilino said:

It absolutely doesn't stack.

The rule says you can't stack if the buff comes from the same source. So 1 or 400 shrines make no difference. The buff comes from a shrine.

Where does it say that? It certainly says it about the "Favour of the Ruinous Powers" but it doesn't say anything of the sort about "Protection of the Dark Gods"

[Rod]

4 hours ago, kozokus said:

Consider they have +1 to hit, and dammage +1 on the charge when Archaon is nearby. Plus the mark of chaos aura bonus, think about Khorne and the +1 to wound bonus.

 

and once per battle can attack twice!

[kozokus]

14 hours ago, Grimrock said:

A bloodsecrator is great for all his attack profiles,

I wouldn't include one, sure it seems a good idea until you realise your magic seems pretty dang and you have to reroll all your sucessful castings in his présence.

[themortalgod]

14 hours ago, Virtus-XIV said:

So, someone please correct me if my math is wrong but Chaos Chosen are monstrous in terms of damage efficiency. A squad of 5 puts out 16 attacks for 7.4 damage against a 4+ save for 140 points, or 18.9 points per 1 damage. Against a 6+ this goes down to 14.3 points per 1 damage. For reference, chaos warriors with 2 hand weapons are 30.7 points per 1 damage against a 4+ and 18.4 against a 6+.

They are high for StD units. Not particularly high compared to other top tier hammer units out there.

Compared to warriors they are roughly double the output per pt spent but are significantly squishier due to lack of save re-roll and shield save vs MWs.

They are also very slow which is the biggest challenge with them.  Warriors are content being slow as they are an anvil but slow moving hammers are much harder to make use of.  They are also finecast which doesn't help. 

[jackmcmahon]

Mindstealers and furies. Make everyone else activate last. Retreat furies from combat. Minimum everything else. Zero combat game. Achievement unlocked.

[etlm1987]

12 minutes ago, jackmcmahon said:

Mindstealers and furies. Make everyone else activate last. Retreat furies from combat. Minimum everything else. Zero combat game. Achievement unlocked.

I think you broke the meta....

[themortalgod]

This is the list I'm working on. I really want to try to make all my chaos knights work because I REALLY love my chaos knights.

Allegiance: StD - Cabalists.

Be'lakor - 240 - Binding Damnation

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 110 - Mask of Darkness, Slaanesh

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 110 - Ruinous Vigor, Slaanesh

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore - 260 - Whispers of Chaos, General, Bolstered by Hate, Ignax Scales, Slaanesh

20 Marauders - Sword/Board - 150

20 Marauders - Sword/Board - 150

10 Knights - Swords - 360

10 Knights - Lances - 360

Mindstealer Sphiranx - 100

5 Marauder Horsemen - 80 - Javalins

5 Marauder Horsemen - 80 - Javelins

Total: 2000pts

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by themortalgod

[JackStreicher]

8 hours ago, kozokus said:

Consider they have +1 to hit, and dammage +1 on the charge when Archaon is nearby. Plus the mark of chaos aura bonus, think about Khorne and the +1 to wound bonus.

 

A unit has to be worth its points in any subfaction not just in one. So it‘s arguably right that they‘re pillowfisted ^^

[Charleston]

17 hours ago, Sartxac said:

Any change for the warscroll of Soul Grinder or is only a points reduction?

All in all neither better nor worse than before. Points stayed at 210, Profile stayed the same which is a pitty as hitting on 4+ is really bad. Hellforged Claw has been simplyfied and nerfed, from dice game and 6 fixed mortals it now triggers on a 6 to hit and generates D6 Mortals while interrupting the wounding procedure. This would be quite a nerf, but the despoilers add some heal and the Aura Abilities can be usefull, too. So in the end slightly change but no huge drama here, as the claw was never really a reliable rule anyway. The ammount of support that is now possible comes up for this quite well.

[DarrinTheOccult]

I've thought a full tzeentchian std list. I know that battalion is not the best, but allows you to deploy one drop and gives you another spell. Of course the damned legion I've chosen is Cabalists.

The tactic is deploying first turn a 10 pink horror unit with the gaunt, and use it as sacrifice for rituals. That way you get each turn +1/+2/+3 for casting rolls, which almost ensures you having success on every spell, and while horrors are alive you get 6 spells at turn.

If pink horrors are summoned this way, would they get an extra spell from the lore of the damned? It sucks that you cannot summon blue horrors if you are STD alliegance, but whatever.

I'm not sure which artefacts would combine better with this list, I'll have to think about that

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Lore of the Damned: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- Lore of the Damned: Whispers of Caos
Lord of Chaos (110)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch on Disc (260)
- Lore of the Damned: Binding Damnation

Battleline
20 x Chaos Warriors (400)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
5 x Chaos Warriors (100)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Eightfold Doom-Sigil (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

 

 

[Louzi]

I will go for

Archie

Mindstealer

2x3 varanguard (Battleline)

15 Chaos Warriors (Battleline)

Warshrine

=1970

Hope it works

 

 

[Rod]

Archaon 800

2 xChaos knights - 360

2 xChaos Knights  -360

1 x Varanguard  - 300

 Chaos Lord Sorceror 110

-1930

 

mark of slanesh or khorne

[firtahl]

How is there not at least 1 mindstealer in every StD list? It seems like an amazing tool for just 100 points. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but ill be allying in 1 to all my eligible chaos factions.

[JackStreicher]

18 minutes ago, firtahl said:

How is there not at least 1 mindstealer in every StD list? It seems like an amazing tool for just 100 points. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but ill be allying in 1 to all my eligible chaos factions.

They suck in combat - sadly

+1 dmg on one of those attacks wouldn‘t have hurt. Though the effect of the Sphiranx rocks

Edited December 11, 2019 by JackStreicher

[decker_cky]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

All in all neither better nor worse than before. Points stayed at 210, Profile stayed the same which is a pitty as hitting on 4+ is really bad. Hellforged Claw has been simplyfied and nerfed, from dice game and 6 fixed mortals it now triggers on a 6 to hit and generates D6 Mortals while interrupting the wounding procedure. This would be quite a nerf, but the despoilers add some heal and the Aura Abilities can be usefull, too. So in the end slightly change but no huge drama here, as the claw was never really a reliable rule anyway. The ammount of support that is now possible comes up for this quite well.

They were 250 pts before, so it's a significant improvement reduction. They're actually incredibly resilient for their points compared to other monsters.

The place they'll probably shine is in slaanesh lists with the daemonsteel contingent with multiple soul grinders. +1 to hit and +1 save is ridiculously good value for 110 pts. 

[Lord Krungharr]

The conversion opportunities for Slaanesh Soul Grinders is awesome!

Are Chaos Knights going to be decent?  They weren't bad before, just not great.  Thinking about getting some really old ones to match my really old Chaos Warriors.  Good battalion for Knights maybe?

 

 

[Rod]

Just now, Lord Krungharr said:

The conversion opportunities for Slaanesh Soul Grinders is awesome!

Are Chaos Knights going to be decent?  They weren't bad before, just not great.  Thinking about getting some really old ones to match my really old Chaos Warriors.  Good battalion for Knights maybe?

 

 

chaos knghts where unplayable before, now 3+ 3+ -1 d1 is prety solid, plus 2 horse attacks.  with slanesh and a general nearby, the reroll charges and exploding hit 6'

 

also slanesh charriots!

[ccconner777]

So a unit of 3 Varanguard with demon swords and rerolling hits and wounds from the undivided prayer from the warshrine and with a Slaanesh hero in tow to give 2 hits on 6 hit rolls puts out 21.6 wounds against a 5+ save and are rerolling runs and charges. If that hero is a sorc on manticore they can also have a rerollable 3+ save.

If you go nurgle instead, you can take enscorceled weapons and use the nurgle prayer from the warshrine giving +1 to save and reroll wounds and with +1 damage on 6's to wound you are dealing 14.5 wounds and are super tanky to non mortal wounds with a 2+ rerollable save.

Maybe they still arent good outside of archaon's legion but i am tempted to try a unit of six with these stacked buffs to make a fast moving deathstar blob. Maybe with some marauder horsemen screens it could be playable at least, even if its not highly competitive?

Combined with ravagers, board edge summoning could supplement the board presense lacking in such an elite list which would only have space for 10-20 warriors 20-40 marauders with a foot hero or 2. Drop the horsemen and i could have 20 warriors 40 marauders and a sorc and lord on foot but i probably need the horseman screens.

Thoughts?