AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[Benkei]

Why delay the battletome so much when you are not changing most of the units, especially the most emblematic ones?

[TheVenerableBede]

The Manticore having a wound roll of 1+ when in the top bracket is odd.  Don't think I've seen an "official" 1+ before.

[shinros]

2 minutes ago, Benkei said:

Why delay the battletome so much when you are not changing most of the units, especially the most emblematic ones?

I'm still wondering why they are not allowing marks on the warcry warbands. ;/ What's the point reboxing them? 

[ColsBols]

all the warscrolls are up on 4chan and holy **** boys you are in for a treat

[Midjithero]

30 minutes ago, Charleston said:

The only thing I really find disturbing are the Varanguard. Like...etf? No buff but announced price hike? A shame as I concidered 3 as a Spearhead for my Knights~

So...I don’t know if I’d call it disturbing...

so...think about it this way...

Deamonforged blades are now 3/3(2)/3/-1/d3, so they lose an attack, but gain +1 wound, d3 dmg, and attack sequence doesn’t end on 6 to hit..

also, they naturally attack a second time, essentially have Death Frenzy from Archaon, can keep attacking twice per Chaos Lord, and the endless spell (8fold Sigil)can give them another attack!

And we don’t even know what the legion abilities do, nor the new spell lore.

yes, they lost the 4+ (now 5+) on Runeshields, but Occulus gives them reroll all saves, not just failed saves...so that’s also a benefit for them.  They also still get cover saves, and a 3+ save...

i think they can do some good damage, but will need to be screened properly, and their targets chosen well.

[mmimzie]

These are the stand out units to me:

Daemon princes are really awesome now. They always fight at the top of the turn meaning you can use 2-4 as like a single unit fighting at the top of the order, or they can compete with salnnesh. The khorne one is even more nastey as an aura of halves charge ranges means they can take priority in picking fights.  The other variants can also be used in conjunction with each other.  ONly thing is to get a real power house killing force against some units you may need to bring all 4 into a fight, unless artifacts and command abilities can bring up thier damage some.

Splintered fang + Darkoath chieftan +option warqueen is spooky. They play in the activation wars getting access to on death attacks, and can be made more deadly getting access to rerolls to hit with sorcerer to fish for 6s, potentialy +1 attack from the endless spell, and potential double pile in from the chaos lord. When used on a budget, just 1 CP and 1 Sorcer's buffs giving them reroll hits (meaning you can reroll all none 6s)  you can get splintered fang throwing on average 13.44 mortals into a keeper of secrets if they are forced to attack last.  If they get any other buffs and anything that touchs them is pretty much done.

Knights with sorcerer and Chaos lord support: These nights get kinda nasty as 10 can roll around with a 4+ rerolling save. They have that reach to charge in hard, and the double attack works well on them as they'll likely live to utilize it. More over they are battleline, so they won't feel like a tax. 

Darkoath Chieftan lets any warcry warband or maurders unit play in activation wars, and do so better. Meaning you can get a whole units worth of attacks in when normal you'd only get 2 ranks worth of attacks (assuming i am translating right). This is pretty nuts on just about anything. Even chaos knights charging into attack first units can get some real damage in.  This seems to be an aura and not a single unit meaning multiple units can fight and all of them can have models activate on death.

Chaos lord: seems pretty decent. Good for buffed knights on the charge as them rerolling save lets them be really durable. His attacks aren't bad either.

Darkoath warqueen:  Lets your marauders and warcry warbands grow legs.  You can hit 2 or maybe 3 units with this ability.  Similarly this is a big aura ability meaning you can get a lot of units with this. More over the war queens job is likely done early getting your army up the table. Great because she's also a strong character sniper now with her buffed attack numbers and fights first ability. With alittle artifact or command ability help she could be a real force. 

Sorcerer got buffed: He lets you just flat reroll meaning modifiers don't matter and for abilities that work on unmodified 6s you can fish for them. 

gaunt summoner got his summoning rule updated: No longer do you need the portal, He comes pre packed with either a 10 squad of daemos or furies. The pink horrors would be a good idea giving you access to a another spell per turn and they get +1 to cast while hanging around the summoner, and great for chucking generic endless spells.  Also with the pinks being summoned forward of the summoner, they can throw endless spells from the starting line accross the table more effectively. If he's  under 250 he's a great include for a 2 cast wizard who splits into a 3 cast wizard.  His spell got buff/nerfed. range is more forgiving, but less damage. Also if for a wizard list 4 gaunts and a lord of change wouldn't be bad start giving you tons of spells and the lord's command ability giving them all +1 to cast. 

Realmscorge Rupture: If you bring 2 or more cast in your list, realm scourge rupture seems like an auto include. It's always going the same way and can halve movement. It's a good spell and is tough to dispel.  Though 7 is abit steep of casting cost, you'll definitly want a bonus. 

Eightfold doom-sigil: seems either amazing or terrible. It read to me as basicly if you opponent went last turn all models in 12" either didn't take damage or all have +1 attack. Your opponent has much of the control over this. The Darkoath Chieftan giving a attack again after death that bonus attack on your own turn can make units  realy threatening even of defense.  I had to translate though so i don't know if you can use it on your enemy's turn.  It can be terrible as your opponent does get the option to either ignore you huge ball of units or tear into them. That said if they can break enough stuff, doing damage just means you'll have just about every unit in the area buffed up. 

Darkfire Daemonrigt: This is the endless spell you put in that wizard slaves to darkness list. With multiple wizard maybe 4 pink horror units and 4 gaunt summoners that's +8 mortal wounds alone. On top of stacking endless spells in the area you can have a powerful endless spell. More over double moving said spells will decimate  large areas.  This said your 2nd move will likely take you outside of 12" from your wizards as if it comes back your way you are in big trouble. 

Untamed beast, iron golem, and unmade: All seem great in thier own right, and i don't think need much explaining. 

I'm liking the idea of a ravager using knights, splintered ranges, and some of the other warcry warbands. 

[annarborhawk]

2 hours ago, Midjithero said:

So...I don’t know if I’d call it disturbing...

so...think about it this way...

Deamonforged blades are now 3/3(2)/3/-1/d3, so they lose an attack, but gain +1 wound, d3 dmg, and attack sequence doesn’t end on 6 to hit..

also, they naturally attack a second time, essentially have Death Frenzy from Archaon, can keep attacking twice per Chaos Lord, and the endless spell (8fold Sigil)can give them another attack!

And we don’t even know what the legion abilities do, nor the new spell lore.

yes, they lost the 4+ (now 5+) on Runeshields, but Occulus gives them reroll all saves, not just failed saves...so that’s also a benefit for them.  They also still get cover saves, and a 3+ save...

i think they can do some good damage, but will need to be screened properly, and their targets chosen well.

And we have no idea what the Everchosen subfaction does for them. I’m withholding judgment.  

[Asamu]

The warscrolls look really good pretty much across the board. No way to know for certain how the faction will be until points and allegiance abilities come out, but:

All units with multiple weapon options can run mixed units. Chaos warriors can dual wield the front rank, halberd/shield the second, and shield/whatever the third, and they get full save re-rolls at 10+ models.

All the re-rolls.

Daemon Princes of Khorne/Nurgle have some pretty good command abilties. The nurgle one is one unit wholly within 12" causes d3 mortal wounds every time a unit rolls a natural 6 to hit them with an attack (after the attack is fully resolved), and you can stack it. 30 warriors -> pop this on them 3 times -> Every 6 to hit them causes an average of 6 mortal wounds to the attacking unit. Pretty crazy against something like witch elves or plague monks throwing out loads of attacks with no rend. The Khorne one is enemy units with 18" halve their run/charge rolls. Pretty great for getting some extra battlefield control if he's in the center of the army; It's a great way to stop alpha strikes from ruining your day.

Daemon Princes always fight at the start of the combat phase now, instead of only with Mark of Slaanesh, and the weapon profiles were improved slightly (+1 to hit for the axe, and -1 to hit, but +1 attack and mortal wounds on 6s to hit for the sword).

Chaos lord on Krakadrak looks pretty good.

Sorc lord Oracular visions is now full save re-rolls, and the foot sorc lord spell gives full re-rolls to hit/wound. Manticore sorc lord spell now rolls for every model in the target unit, and 5s are 1 mortal wound, 6s are d3 mortal wounds, so it should kill about half of any unit of 1 wound models per cast.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Asamu

[annarborhawk]

If there is a way to make Archaon fight more than once in a combat phase, the new wording of the slayer of kings makes it pretty likely you can insta-kill things like Nagash, Morathi, et al..... just need two sixes to hit IN THE SAME PHASE.

[Fazhak]

If appropriate and possible, could someone please link to the new warscrolls mentioned to be on 4chan?

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

As I recall there was a lot of concern when the Skaven warscrolls were released as well, saying they were vastly underpowered. Who knows how things will turn out when we have all the pieces?

 

I want to play Norsca rather than Warriors of Chaos so I'm excited to field a Marauder/Cultist force. With the Warqueen, Chieftain, and Warcry bands I can finally play a force that I feel captures what I want better than I could with the WFB Warriors army. This is the Chaos I've always wanted to play!

Can't wait to see what Spire Tyrants are like!

[smartazjb0y]

7 minutes ago, Fazhak said:

If appropriate and possible, could someone please link to the new warscrolls mentioned to be on 4chan?

You can go on the GW site and go to each unit's page and click on "Downloads" and the link for the warscrolls will be there 

[mmimzie]

27 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

As I recall there was a lot of concern when the Skaven warscrolls were released as well, saying they were vastly underpowered. Who knows how things will turn out when we have all the pieces?

 

I want to play Norsca rather than Warriors of Chaos so I'm excited to field a Marauder/Cultist force. With the Warqueen, Chieftain, and Warcry bands I can finally play a force that I feel captures what I want better than I could with the WFB Warriors army. This is the Chaos I've always wanted to play!

Can't wait to see what Spire Tyrants are like!

Yes!! that's definitly the vibe i want, but i wish marauder had a new sculpt. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

2 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Yes!! that's definitly the vibe i want, but i wish marauder had a new sculpt. 

I just put Marauder Horsemen heads on the Marauder bodies. They're still oddly proportioned but it isn't as painful to look at.

[Grimrock]

Man I'm super pumped for these warscrolls. The sorcerer lord's buff is massive, full rerolls to hit and wound with rerolls to save? Absolutely amazing. Archaon looks fantastic, marauders look fantastic, daemon prince looks fantastic, chaos lord looks fantastic, full rerolls to save on chaos warriors looks fantastic. Honestly I'm having a tough time seeing something to be really disappointed in... I guess I was hoping for more for varanguard, but if it means I don't need to pay $120 for 3 models then I'm not really complaining.

I was figuring there wouldn't be many warscroll changes, but the amount of tweaks and improvements is really blowing me away. If the alleigance abilities, battalions and spells are even half decent then this army is going to rock the house. All I'm hoping for now is a cheap spell that buffs rend and I'll be happy as a clam.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Grimrock

[Midjithero]

1 hour ago, annarborhawk said:

If there is a way to make Archaon fight more than once in a combat phase, the new wording of the slayer of kings makes it pretty likely you can insta-kill things like Nagash, Morathi, et al..... just need two sixes to hit IN THE SAME PHASE.

So, this may be RAW...but it’ll probably be FAQd as this is SUPER powerful.  

I’m sure the RAI is within the 4 (or more if buffed somehow) base attacks Slayer gets.

but I could be wrong, no clue  regardless I’m happy with just the warscroll changes 

[angrycontra]

I like the overall changes but man, those Varanguard are horrible. Their average dam/pts is on the same level as chaos warriors (which is rather terrible) but with half of the chaos warrior's survivability. I don't know chaos knight points, but assuming they cost less than 200, I see no point ever paying 300 for 3 varanguard. Even the possible book buffs don't convince me varanguatdrd can be saved because you can already get units of 10 chaos knights with full hit, wound and save rerolls through chaos sorcerers (not to mention +1 to hit from mounted lord command ability and some chaos aura bonus). It doesn't help that varanguard are worse with no archaon in the army (who is already a massive point sink).

[mmimzie]

3 hours ago, angrycontra said:

I like the overall changes but man, those Varanguard are horrible. Their average dam/pts is on the same level as chaos warriors (which is rather terrible) but with half of the chaos warrior's survivability. I don't know chaos knight points, but assuming they cost less than 200, I see no point ever paying 300 for 3 varanguard. Even the possible book buffs don't convince me varanguatdrd can be saved because you can already get units of 10 chaos knights with full hit, wound and save rerolls through chaos sorcerers (not to mention +1 to hit from mounted lord command ability and some chaos aura bonus). It doesn't help that varanguard are worse with no archaon in the army (who is already a massive point sink).

You are paying for the lower surface area. Six varangaurd can fight in the same location 10 chaos warriors or 6 chaos knights can. meaning your fitting 600pts of damage in a small space. 

In most charges even with cav you really aren't getting big huge surrounds. Likely it's some reduced frontage vs another frontage. General 10-15 25mm 10 32s, 6 cav bases, 1 monster, etc. 

It's why morrsarr guard are better than thralls in deepkin, enlightend are better than tzaangors, keepers are better than the rest of thier book, etc. lots of damage in a tiny space. As such varanguard can fight twice with the safe area that knights can only fight once without CP help. 

So when you compare that and just look at the spears vanaraguard will get double the damage with out even double piling in  and no arkaon. When they do double up they'll get even more in there, and thats including any possible buffs such as a sorc lord.

It's more damage vs durability. 
 

(edit: both try to get a sorc to give them rerollable saves so that they can fight even against units that attack first, this is not a the more reliable strategy. )

5 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I just put Marauder Horsemen heads on the Marauder bodies. They're still oddly proportioned but it isn't as painful to look at.

funny i was just thinking of using horsemen because they look quite abit better.

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by mmimzie

[JackStreicher]

4 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I just put Marauder Horsemen heads on the Marauder bodies. They're still oddly proportioned but it isn't as painful to look at.

Just use bloodreavers, they truly look like the updated versions of marauders ^^

 

as for the warscrolls: I‘ve slept over it and now I am afraid we get Might get a really bad Battletome... we lack damage quite massively. Unless every unit we have is dirt cheap and a horde unit I can see no way (judging by the warscrolls) you won’t just die against everything but kharadron....well we’ll see

Edited December 7, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Chopper]

If you think Archaeon may die, pop his command ability on him 😂

 

Probably not optimal, but hilarious none the less!

[Charleston]

Okay, after reading all your input on changes I´ve missed (like the immense sorcerer buff :O) I am really hyped.

I´ve also noticed the only cut in this army: We´ve lost the Sorcerer on Mount. Foreseeable as it had no model around, but yet I am sad for my conversion

Nevertheless, I am quite confident about the tome. I´ve found already several cool strategies to play with my existing models. I already started planing my next Daemon Prince to have all 4 God marked and an unmarked one. Despoilers will be a serious thing

[Sinfullyvannila]

9 hours ago, shinros said:

I'm still wondering why they are not allowing marks on the warcry warbands. ;/ What's the point reboxing them? 

Warcry warbands are antagonistic towards the major Chaos gods. They either worship Archaon as a god or as an aspect of their minor Chaos God. They want to operate outside of the observation of the major chaos gods, because they would destroy said god. That’s why they are all CULTISTS.

[Klamm]

Hey, what's with the chaos warrior war scroll having options for halberds, great weapons, banners, hornblowers etc. when the kit doesn't come with any of that? I understand they want to accommodate people with the old kit, but isn't the tradeoff of having weapon loadouts on the new kit which people can't actually use worse?

Is there any clue that these are the only chaos warrior kit that is coming? Looking at the sprue, they're disappointingly lacking in customisation. 

[GeneralZero]

Where is my chaos gargant???

[Kaleb Daark]

5 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Yes!! that's definitly the vibe i want, but i wish marauder had a new sculpt. 

Marauder horsemen or warrior heads and shields on beastmen gors