AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[PiotrW]

I have a question: any possibility / rumours of GW releasing more of Darkoath-related units / troopers? I happen to have the Godsworn Hunt from Nightvault, as well as the Warqueen and the Chieftain (I got these two for use in another game...) and I've grown to realize that they are my favourite part of Chaos. If GW released more of these guys, I might even try playing them in AoS...

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

I have a question: any possibility / rumours of GW releasing more of Darkoath-related units / troopers? I happen to have the Godsworn Hunt from Nightvault, as well as the Warqueen and the Chieftain (I got these two for use in another game...) and I've grown to realize that they are my favourite part of Chaos. If GW released more of these guys, I might even try playing them in AoS...

There are no reliable rumours. 

There were hints of new models but I believe it was only on one website that later closed down quite soon after; so could be just wishlisting.

Warcry warbands are also technically Slaves to Darkness forces, though quite how they tie into the army is unknown at present, though they introduce the new keyword "cultist" but don't have marks of chaos on them. But without a Battletome we've no idea. They could replace marauders or they might be more extras. 

 

Right now its clear that the Slaves army has some older models and potential for new ones as well as updated sculpts. But we've honestly no way to predict if GW will release anything or not. There's no reliable solid rumours going around either so basically its a wait and see situation. I think if there's anything you want now then it might be best to get it sooner rather than later. From my observations:

1) I'd expect to see the finecast exalted heroes and mounted lord vanish from the site. They are all finecast and the army already has several foot leaders in plastic and a mounted lord and mage on a manticore. 

2) The Chaos Chosen could be retired as well as they are all finecast, but that one is harder to say as they are an elite choice within the army. 

3) Of the plastics the marauders on foot are some of the oldest; followed up by their mounted versions. The chaos warriors are also pretty dated, esp by modern standards. However I'd more likely expect to see the foot marauders vanish and replaced in function with warcry warbands (which in AoS arm up to basically the same slot in the army just with specific features - eg goelms are tough; untamed beasts are fast etc...).
Chaos Warriors and Knights could be for the chop, but GW also did a big christmas boxed set with them so that might show that they are hanging around for longer. 

[PiotrW]

Thanks!

Stupid basic question: what exactly are the differences (fluff-wise) between all those Chaos factions? Who are the Slaves to Darkness as opposed to the Everchosen, as opposed to mortals worshipping (say) Khorne?

[Overread]

23 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Thanks!

Stupid basic question: what exactly are the differences (fluff-wise) between all those Chaos factions? Who are the Slaves to Darkness as opposed to the Everchosen, as opposed to mortals worshipping (say) Khorne?

Everchosen is basically Acharon's forces which represent an undivided approach to war. Basically he doesn't favour any one of the Four Great Gods of Chaos (Skaven are their own thing even though the Great Horned One is the 5th Chaos God ) and prefers to unit the followers of Chaos under one banner to wage war of the Mortal Realms. He's basically gunning for total victory for Chaos and uses his agents such as Varanguard to help enforce his will over teaming armies of Chaos who can easily fall apart to in-fighting. 

 

Slaves to Darkness are the total opposite end of things, they are mostly mortals and lords who can follow any one of the Chaos Gods. Many might not even worship one of the four greats and thus have their own gods; however they would simply be one of the four pretending to be another god. You see this with the Warcry bands, none of them directly worships one of Chaos Gods; however they do have their own named gods. Thus any enclave of a warband might worship the same "god" by name ,but behind the scenes they could be different Greater Demons. 

Remembering that the Chaos Gods rarely get involved with mortals; instead its their Greater Demon agents who do the work. 

 

Where you get tribes that worship one god fully you get "Marked of Chaos" which is just slaves to darkness with a chaos god mark to one of the four. Meawhile the even more devout are found within the specific Chaos God armies. Those who are so totally given over that they worship none other but that patron god (remembering that the Greater Demon they deal with can change as they conduct their own Warp Wars of influence and power). 

[Mogwai Man]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:40 AM, PiotrW said:

Thanks!

Stupid basic question: what exactly are the differences (fluff-wise) between all those Chaos factions? Who are the Slaves to Darkness as opposed to the Everchosen, as opposed to mortals worshipping (say) Khorne?

Slaves to Darkness is a Chaos Undivided force. It's the classic Warhammer Fantasy "Warriors of Chaos".

Everchosen is Archaon and his Varanguard. They are also Chaos Undivided.

[Terninho83]

what is our best list nowadays?

 

[MrCharisma]

Just in case you missed it, a few weeks ago I recorded a deep dive into the Slaves to Darkness allegiance with two dedicated undivided champions of Chaos in Travis Cooper & Shaun Ratcliffe. It isn't easy staying undivided and these two Champions talk through building a list, customising that focus with your traits & artefacts, and general tactics.

 

 

[Charleston]

Did anyone made some games with Slaves in the Last time? I would love to see a BatRep again

[Tropical Ghost General]

So thinking of starting up a S2D army. 

Question for the more veteran players. Is there any reason to stick to S2D army abilities over Grand Alliance? 

As Chaos Warriors or Marauders are generic battleline anyway, it seems that going Grand Alliance opens up the option for either potential extra CP with 'cunning deceiver' or potential +1 to hit with 'malicious conquerer' command traits for the general. 

And then taking 'crown of conquest' as a relic for battleshock immunity to nearby units seems relatively strong.

And be being Grand Alliance, then allows for bringing in a bit of everything, such as Chimeras or Varanguard or various daemons, which then isn't an issue with the limit on allies points.

So is this a way of thinking that has any merit or is it a doomed approach of thinking of how to overcome the struggles of running S2D? 

[Overread]

@Tropical Ghost General just remember Slaves are without a Battletome and at very best might get one end of this year (though that's a very big maybe)  and more likely will get one Q1 of next year. 

They've also gained all the Warcry forces who appear to share a very similar set of stats to marauder infantry; but with some flavourful variations based on their traits (eg Iron Golems are very tanky etc..). 

I would say go for what you like more than building to a strict army since they are likely to change. What does change both rule and model wise is totally unknown; though I would say any finecast are "at high risk" and marauder infantry are too. Other options in the army I'd say could be replaced with a new sculpt but considering things like the chariot, warriors and knights are in core starting kits and the christmas battalion (which is still up for sale in most places) it might well be that those models are staying as they are. At the veyr least if they were removed they'd more likely be replaced with a new sculpt, though base sizes could also get adjusted. 

 

It's just a few things to keep in mind at this stage when building up a force and making choices. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

Ok team.

Had first couple of games with StDs the other day. Narrative 1k games, was fun but wow, this army needs some help. 

Am looking at adding in some marauders, but I am not a fan of the current GW sculpts. It's probably been asked lots before, but any suggestions on alternative sculpts? 

Ideally GW, for future proofing for comps and stuff. The new spire tyrants might work, but will need to wait for the rest of them to be revealed. Also might be a bit pricey, as it will be a minimum of 3 boxes, plus bits to get 20 marauders.

[Charleston]

Using the Warcry Warbands is one way to go.

If you are sure you go with a certain Mark of Chaos, you could use Zombies as Nurgle Ones, Blood Reavers of Khorne as "Count as" Khorne marked Marauders, same for Tzeentch with Kairic Acolythes. Later ones can be also converted easily in Slaaneshi ones I belive.

[Blisterfeet]

3 hours ago, Charleston said:

Using the Warcry Warbands is one way to go.

If you are sure you go with a certain Mark of Chaos, you could use Zombies as Nurgle Ones, Blood Reavers of Khorne as "Count as" Khorne marked Marauders, same for Tzeentch with Kairic Acolythes. Later ones can be also converted easily in Slaaneshi ones I belive.

This is what I'm doing with Knights, warriors I have. I am mixing StD, Khorne & Warcry models.

Running straight StD I do strictly for small battles and narrative reasons playing friends. 

I am also getting Archaon and some Varanguard because as a GK player from 40k I'm a glutton for punishment 😂😂🤟🤟 and I love the models. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Blisterfeet I feel the GK pain 😂.

[Tropical Ghost General]

I was thinking of using ungors with some head and weapon swaps as the marauders, as I'm going for more of a general mixed chaos rather than focusing on one type. Thoughts?

[Blisterfeet]

1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

I was thinking of using ungors with some head and weapon swaps as the marauders, as I'm going for more of a general mixed chaos rather than focusing on one type. Thoughts?

I think that sounds amazing. If you are doing StD you are doing it for the rule of cool! 

Do some pic uploads once you've done the kitbash. 

[Dreadmund]

Anyone else hoping Slaves get the Cities of Sigmar treatment in their next tome? Like 4 subfactions for each god and 1 or 2 for undivided chaos. Along with warscroll revisions, it could breathe some serious fresh air into the faction!

[HMB]

On 10/6/2019 at 7:07 PM, Tropical Ghost General said:

Ok team.

Had first couple of games with StDs the other day. Narrative 1k games, was fun but wow, this army needs some help. 

Am looking at adding in some marauders, but I am not a fan of the current GW sculpts. It's probably been asked lots before, but any suggestions on alternative sculpts? 

Ideally GW, for future proofing for comps and stuff. The new spire tyrants might work, but will need to wait for the rest of them to be revealed. Also might be a bit pricey, as it will be a minimum of 3 boxes, plus bits to get 20 marauders.

I took the khorne bloodreavers cutting away all the khorne's symbols adding gor's shields 

they fit perfectly in this role

[Charleston]

On 10/8/2019 at 1:43 PM, Dreadmund said:

Anyone else hoping Slaves get the Cities of Sigmar treatment in their next tome? Like 4 subfactions for each god and 1 or 2 for undivided chaos. Along with warscroll revisions, it could breathe some serious fresh air into the faction!

To be honest? I rather fear it.

CoS have the huge advantage that there was already Lore on this, and a huge load of kits from WHFB times around. Thoose kits are easier to mix and match than current newer kits, have roughly the same size and are therefore made for such an customization heavy army.

StD got with the Warcry Warbands some stuff and lore that is realmbound but...I am rather afraid of gw streching this thin lore and model range to try to make a CoS StD work. I do not even know if the new Warcry Kits are customizable like the Necromunda ones or if we have 100% Monopose in there.

StD were rather meant to be a big unified stream of chaos followers which either pillage the lands or gather around the Everchosen in hope for greater deeds. That "characterless" approach was actually something that really made the feeling of WHFB Chaos Warriors. At this point Darkoath is in my opinion one huge mess. This whole "they are actually almost good guys who simply do not know better than to praise Chaos" stuff is cute but misses the old StD Vibe by 100%. Like, Archaon, who only allows the best of the best to be part of his army, beeing like part of the same army as such "yeah, we dipped into Chaos once and it was ok"-faction...thats simply weird. Also, Tribesmen really compare badly against Stormcasts. Why should Chaos field weaker armies when every one else powers up? You don´t bring a leather tanga to a follblown soul wars!

In Terms of StD becoming a Multi-God-Faction....yeah, this one is quite a mistake in my eyes, too. If you could go like 100% Chaos Allstars, noone would play the sub-alligiences anymore and we would have 4 'dead' books. Meanwhile, at current stage, we can easily ally some cool units to give it flavor or even shift the whole StD Army into another Alligience. A way smoother approach which also fits the Lore better.

I currently would really embrace a Rules-Only-Tome with Everchosen+StD over a Darkoath-Focused combined book.

[Overread]

I think its more that in a lot of the Old World stories Chaos were a bit like Orks in that they popped up armies out of the ground (ok the Chaos Wastes) but we never really saw those armies forming. We also generally only ever saw individual people or small groups fall to chaos and they were most often the same kinds. Those inclined to darker acts getting darker and darker. Often we'd see mages or powerful heroes. 

So in the past we got to see a lot of Chaos leaders, but very few peoples.

 

I think GW is addressing this with the new lore in AoS, which is interesting because there's even less "need" for itas Chaos had 500 years to recruit people. So they've already got that vast nameless army. However GW is going further and giving those armies far more identity. They are also showing how mortal humans at the trible and settlement level can come to the worship of Chaos and the internal struggles for power that go on within Chaos. We get to see these tribes of wildmen or civilised peoples who are slowly tainted and twisted to Chaos, but they are still relaitable. They still have dreams and hopes; joy and sadness; love and hate. It's giving far more dimensions to Chaos than we've ever really had before. It's moving Chaos from that "big nasty" into an actual characterful multitude of races and peoples. It gives us reasoning for how people can come to worship the dark gods even when there's mighty Sigmar proclaiming great things for all; or Nagash or any one of a number of other gods and demigods in the Realms. I think that's important; we have to see how Chaos grows itself; how it views itself. Heck we have stories now of noble maggotkin. Sure we know they are evil, but we see behind their eyes and the madness that their corruption breeds within them. 

 

Personally I think it makes the faction far more exciting and dynamic than just the "big evil"faction it was before. I hope Orks get the very same treatment; along with such forces as the totally insane Flesheaters. 

[Charleston]

I got your point. But I can´t imagine how GW may give us the kits for this diversity without enforcing to buy through the Warcry Sets.

I am also not sure about Orks and FEC getting any kind of treatment, as both got their tomes. Orruks beeing merged surely means a wider spread diversity, but this is quite underminded by still having seperate alligiences. I don´t see how to add there more realm based stuff than already possible. FEC are a whfb legacy and are at least rulewise in a good shape. Modelwise their general aesthetics, althrough beeing quite monopose, suits an general theme I don´t see gw to change soon.

 

 

[Overread]

Change will come, GW has typically always expanded armies. FEC are a great example becauase right now its mostly in the Getting Started set. So GW has a load of FEC players only buying the entry level product because that's all there is. GW now has a market that will fairly quickly buy all they need. So they will most certainly expand the army with new options; adding new models and new concepts into them. Of course how they release the update is impossible to say as is when. They might release a big second wave of models in one go with an updated Tome in a years time; or they might drip feed models over three years or heck they might not touch them again for five or more years. It's very hard to predict.

 

Suffice it to say that if an army is making sales then its in GW's interested to release new and updated models so that existing fans will dip into their pockets agian to pay for stuff; whilst new fans will have even more to buy. 

 

AoS is just messy because of its history; but look at 40K for a clearer picture. Loads of armies expanded. Tyranids used to do everything they needed with warriors, carnifex and hive tyrants. They had all the weapon varieties to handle any situation from close combat to artillery and everything inbetween. Now they've added massive monstesr that do artillery, close combat etc..... They even went and added a whole new type of flying unit in the form of aircraft that are always in flight to the game which gave them room to add stuff to every single army (before them flight was more a jump-pack that let you hop over terrain and other models). 

 

AoS would likely get the very same treatment. New models being added into niche roles; the introduction of new niches within the game itself. Heck GW could certainly go for a "dedicated flying" approach if they wanted; or add sieging equipment or any one of a number of other ideas. Heck just breaking armies into troops, cavalry and monsters could easily add a whole new dimension to the game (esp for some armies that don't currently have cavalry or a cavalry equivalent or which might then get more anti-cavalry options )

[Charleston]

While I get your point, and yes, this is quite sure some logical gw release pattern here, we are talking about changes that happen over the course of several years. Thats where it´s a bit hard for me to understand how it thematically makes the cut to more diverse StD Release coming with the next book.

Althrough I have to admit that when the Psionic Awakening Pattern goes of we can surely enjoy a similar approach for AoS as soon as all Tomes are 2.0 once.

[Slaanesh]

Could someone explain to me what the "Mark of the all-favored" actuly do,

Do you Count as having all marks for the purpose of "Aura of Chaos". Gaining all the benefits for the character and units with marks around it.
Or is it one or the other, meaning like, he only gives the aura or only gains the buffs for itself.

And also, can a daemon Prince still "dedicate" itself to a god (while using this artifact). Since there is no talk about marks on the warscroll.
Im a bit confused about this item, and I know the past itertation had a desingers commentary clearing things up, but this doesnt.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Slaanesh

[Charleston]

I am cincidering to give my StD another chance as I got a cheap box of Chaos Knights. Also yesterday a buddy of mine was wiped by an StD Player with his Nighthaunts which makes me a bit hope that there may be a chance for a fun game. Also I have to reconcider my 30-Chaos-Warriors-Blobb as this simply doesn´t work out anyway. 30 Bodies can be a great Anvil but are simply too expensive and cannot do any serious damage. I think I will go with 2x Knights, 5 Warriors for back objective, a Chariot, as many Deamon Princes as possible and some Wizzardy or something similar in the future.

18 hours ago, Slaanesh said:

Could someone explain to me what the "Mark of the all-favored" actuly do,

Do you Count as having all marks for the purpose of "Aura of Chaos". Gaining all the benefits for the character and units with marks around it.
Or is it one or the other, meaning like, he only gives the aura or only gains the buffs for itself.

And also, can a daemon Prince still "dedicate" itself to a god (while using this artifact). Since there is no talk about marks on the warscroll.
Im a bit confused about this item, and I know the past itertation had a desingers commentary clearing things up, but this doesnt.

You only gain the missing keywords, not the Abilities from the Warscrolls (beside the one that you are allowed to pick anyway). The point in this artifact is to allow f.e. a Chaos Lord to gain a buff from a Khorne Hero and a Nurgle hero at the same time.