AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[GeneralZero]

My bet is that it won't be named Darkoath and it will include StD+Evechoosen+Darkoath

 

[Aeryenn]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was named Godsworn. And yeah, GW would be ****** to leave StD behind especially after releasing a Battleforce for them. This clearly suggests that they want to support StD range. 

[Kaleb Daark]

10 minutes ago, Aryann said:

I wouldn't be surprised if it was named Godsworn. And yeah, GW would be ****** to leave StD behind especially after releasing a Battleforce for them. This clearly suggests that they want to support StD range. 

I agree. In terms of refreshing the model line as well it wouldn't take a lot.

The warriors are still a nice kit and hold their own quite well, but maybe a Warriors with more dynamic poses now that they don't have to rank up, maybe a chosen/ warrior dual kit?

The marauders could be replaced by darkoath really as in the old world they were the barbarian tribes who had turned to chaos to survive.

Horsemen were always a nice model and still stand up well.

I don't see darkoath being a single standalone release like idoneth for instance-  don't get me wrong, I'd be happily surprised if this was the case

I'm preparing myself for a  barbarians dual kit or two and a centrepeice that is faction specific like the beasts got their herdstone.

Naturally the wish list runs a lot longer than that, but I'm just dreaming.    I'd love to see FW bring the mammoth back but it would take massive re-engineering to do in order to drop the pricetag on it. - hollowing it out, making it easier to mould - huge effort required.  A plastic mammoth would be a massive ask from GW - and I just can't see it, as much as i'd want it.

From a rules point, it'd be great if the darkoath barbarians got skin wolves as a present from forgeworld as well - I can totally see this faction having shape shifters and were creatures in it, and they being seen as champions or blessed individuals.

I'm looking forward to it more and more, but purposefully keeping my expectations low so that hopefully, all being well I will be pleasantly surprised.

[kenshin620]

I'm not sure if GW is going to break their "keep using the same plastic kit" strategy they currently have. When was the last time they replaced a plastic kit? The Tau Fire Warrior kit? That was like 3 years ago or something.

The last time they replaced a fantasy kit is even longer. Don't tell me it was the 8th edition starter set! (rat ogres and then they technically didnt get replaced!)

Though would be interesting if Chaos Mortals was the first time they'd do it.

 

Would be nice if we finally had some marauder or marauder type unit with spears. I never understood why they were allergic to that weapon, especially since they were northern viking barbarians a lot of the times.

I can see Chosen getting plasticfied, it'll be a good platform for far more dynamic warriors. And also a source of plastic great weapons!

(I wonder if they'll revive Forsaken. Sure it was ugly, but it had great conversion parts. It was kind of odd when they killed off that kit, unless did it break?)

[Frowny]

Hey everyone

I just finally finished my first 1000 points of slaves to darkness, running mostly chaos knights, which I think just have the best models. However, the slaves rulesset itself seems a little bit unexciting. Rerolling 1's just doesn't seem to do much and trying to keep my units near the mediocre heroes is kinda fiddly. I was therefore thinking of switching to one of the 4 gods. I also have several questions for you all.

 

1) Any thoughts on when the new darkoath might come out?  given I like the cavalry theme, I'm thinking some maurauder horsemen might fit well but I wouldn't want to invest until I know they aren't getting a rules update or model update to make my decision on

2) Why do people seem to like the chaos sorcerer so much? rerolling 1's to hit and wound is nice but increases efficiency of a unit by ~30-40% depending on their base stats, and their defence by ~16%. But he costs as much as a whole unit of knights, which would of course boost offensive output 100% and defense the same! At least at the 1000 point level, he just doesn't seem worth it. But maybe I'm missing something? 

3) Gorebeast chariot vs. more knights. He just doesn't see to do quite as much as the knights, even when I roll high enough to get the charge bonus. I guess the mortal wounds on charge are useful, but the kind of target that it is best against (hordes) aren't always the kind you need mortal wounds against. 

4) What dark god to dedicate to? I will probably not branch out into any of the specialty miniatures and just keep it straight Slaves to Darkness for now, but the different rules seem much stronger. I'm kinda leaning toward nurgle and slaanesh. 

Thanks for any help

[kenshin620]

Only GW knows when the book comes out. But it definitely seems to be after the Grot book since they teased Grots next. It'll probably be a few good months, like maybe March-April at the soonest.

[Xasz]

Phasing them into the legacy section is always an option.

[Kaleb Daark]

59 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I'm not sure if GW is going to break their "keep using the same plastic kit" strategy they currently have. When was the last time they replaced a plastic kit? The Tau Fire Warrior kit? That was like 3 years ago or something.

The last time they replaced a fantasy kit is even longer. Don't tell me it was the 8th edition starter set! (rat ogres and then they technically didnt get replaced!)

Though would be interesting if Chaos Mortals was the first time they'd do it.

 

Would be nice if we finally had some marauder or marauder type unit with spears. I never understood why they were allergic to that weapon, especially since they were northern viking barbarians a lot of the times.

I can see Chosen getting plasticfied, it'll be a good platform for far more dynamic warriors. And also a source of plastic great weapons!

(I wonder if they'll revive Forsaken. Sure it was ugly, but it had great conversion parts. It was kind of odd when they killed off that kit, unless did it break?)

looking at the Darkoath warband coming out for shadespire it's looking like you get your wish as a few of them are armed with javelin and bows - and about time as you say.

Last chaos kit that got replaced was the chariot and dragon ogres  back in 8th edition from metal offerings. I think dark smurfs got some rehashed toys as well.

We've been crying out for plastic chosen since forever as you know.

Slaves as a faction isn't going to go away, it's too ingrained in the player psyche as well - so based on this, I really hope that they look to finally give some of our long overdue models a birthday.

 

@Frowny I'd buy the marauder horsemen anyway, they're just lovely models full stop - if in doubt give them the chaos kinght weapon arms and you can use them to beef up your knight units.

[Kaleb Daark]

Just now, Xasz said:

Phasing them into the legacy section is always an option.

I think this is where much of it will end up.

I genuinely believe that if it came out in the last days of fantasy - carrying the new aesthetic of the AoS hidden in plain sight then it's pretty much here to stay and will eventually get a lore and faction book, so dwarf players with iron breakers etc, just keep the faith.

However I think that finecast stuff like chosen etc will either get the new model or yes, get retired into the legacy section.

That's not to say we won't be getting new chosen - but maybe we'll get a brand new unit called exalted oathsworn warrior or some such that will be a chosen in everything but name.    It's how I'm seeing the Darkoath, they're the marauder for the age of sigmar,  and by that token, if they retire the original chaos marauders I won't be disappointed as those guys have served us well.

I only get disappointed at the retirement of  a model when there's nothing to replace it.  But if Marauders get retired and replaced with darkoath, I'll feel that it's an honourable transition.

Things like the hellcannon for instance, I still treasure my three.  I only wish that the chaos dwarfs Legion of Azgorh could have made use of it. They are just counts as .. in my legion army.  Oh well.

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

We've been crying out for plastic chosen since forever as you know.

Well I think the problem with Chosen (back then) is that they suffer from the "it's just a fancy version of existing kit". If anything before AoS the models were a novelty since you'd be stuck with great weapons and no shields. Unless you made them Count As Halberds.

Kind of like the old versions of space marine veterans before they branched out and sternguard got fancy bolters.

 

Now I think they can be a different unit, much like how Skullreapers aren't just Fancy Blood Warriors (well Skullreapers came out first but you get the idea).

Edited December 2, 2018 by kenshin620

[Kaleb Daark]

27 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Well I think the problem with Chosen (back then) is that they suffer from the "it's just a fancy version of existing kit". If anything before AoS the models were a novelty since you'd be stuck with great weapons and no shields. Unless you made them Count As Halberds.

Kind of like the old versions of space marine veterans before they branched out and sternguard got fancy bolters.

 

Now I think they can be a different unit, much like how Skullreapers aren't just Fancy Blood Warriors (well Skullreapers came out first but you get the idea).

back in fantasy Chosen were a kit more than that. They were just stupid cost points wise. Stupid thing was that in order to make chosen we used to buy a box of knights just to get the torsos and graft them onto the warrior bottoms - Those chosen finecaste were just so they could drag out the metal mould a bit longer but they looked pretty dire.

The great weapon in fantasy hit hard - its just that it hit last.

In the same way that undead players so desperately prayed for plastic bloodknights.

Anyhoo... that was then, this is now.

[kenshin620]

15 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

In the same way that undead players so desperately prayed for plastic bloodknights.

To be fair the price of Blood Knights is one of the main motivators, being one of the most expensive kits ever sold (and still is to this day!)🤑

 

Anyways I can see a chosen "replacement" being more like varanguard on foot. Far smaller unit with multiwound mini heroes. I mean they are CHOSEN! They should be far tougher and nastier than a typical (already tough) chaos warrior!

Kind of like the Aspiring Champions unit from total war warhammer which is one of the smallest units in the entire game.

Plus it would actually be fielded in Matched Play, unlike the Gore Chosen battalion that can't be used unless it's an insanely high point level!

[Kaleb Daark]

26 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

To be fair the price of Blood Knights is one of the main motivators, being one of the most expensive kits ever sold (and still is to this day!)🤑

 

Anyways I can see a chosen "replacement" being more like varanguard on foot. Far smaller unit with multiwound mini heroes. I mean they are CHOSEN! They should be far tougher and nastier than a typical (already tough) chaos warrior!

Kind of like the Aspiring Champions unit from total war warhammer which is one of the smallest units in the entire game.

Plus it would actually be fielded in Matched Play, unlike the Gore Chosen battalion that can't be used unless it's an insanely high point level!

I totally agree with you, we used to run chosen blocks of twenty so silly money including the command group.  The difference between blood knights and chosen was that they were actually really nice models.  Those horse poses are what chaos knights should have had.

i really like the idea of a varanguard type unit on foot in one of those moments where after the opponent has theown everything at the big slab of warriors and is feeling pleased with themselves,  those guys rock up and that look of “youve got to be kidding me...” appears on his face,

sort of like when i dropped my two mammoths and a cursd ettin during the deployment phase

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

I like the idea of the rebranded army being called godsworn but then you can't really toss in everchosen since archie kinda hates the chaos gods. Maybe if it was straight up called "The Undivided" or maybe "heralds of the end times" (sorry for those still sore about the death of fantasy). That way you could thematically take archie the champion of chaos undivided, in the undivided army (the fact you can't already do that is a load of bull). I would like the darkoath stuff to replace the old marauder line with darkoath berserkers, hunters, wolf chariots, etc. I would also like to see a proper return of mammoths and the incorporation of some of fantasy's norsca stuff like a warshrine mammoth, skin wolves, etc. I agree with the notion that warriors are fine but have dumb poses, but i would like to see a new chosen kit or maybe aspiring champions as there own unit. Either way I would like to see some form of juiced up chaos infantry that is as beefy if not beefier than stormcasts, I still find it silly that chaos warriors are smaller than most stormcasts but are about the same in stat profiles. Also there was mention of varanguard being chosen but aren't they supposed to be lords? I do agree that they should get a foot variant, since the current profile for chosen doesn't scream "heavy infantry" the same way units like retributers do.

[Kaleb Daark]

I do miss warshrine mammoth and also delivery van mammoth who could carry a unit of warriors and unliad them- that would be fun with traitors mist running.

who knows, maybe the darkoath and slaves love runs deep in the mothership and we’re in for a real treat.

 

[Frowny]

Any answers to my other questions?

 

What god do I dedicate my mostly knights forces to ? I'm leaning toward slaanesh or nurgle at this point, but could be convinced another way. The slaves ruleset itself doesn't feel the most exciting......

Why do people like Dark Power on the sorcerer? He is so expensive you could get another unit of almost anything that you'd be thinking of buffing. I guess its better if you have a giant block of something, but its hard imagine the buff does more than 10 more warriors or 5 more knights....

 

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

16 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Any answers to my other questions?

 

What god do I dedicate my mostly knights forces to ? I'm leaning toward slaanesh or nurgle at this point, but could be convinced another way. The slaves ruleset itself doesn't feel the most exciting......

Why do people like Dark Power on the sorcerer? He is so expensive you could get another unit of almost anything that you'd be thinking of buffing. I guess its better if you have a giant block of something, but its hard imagine the buff does more than 10 more warriors or 5 more knights....

 

Sorcerer is our only non fw wizard option aside from the manticore variant, oracular vision and dark power can turn a couple of units into a bigger pain for your opponent. As for marks on knights i'd suggest khorne for sword knights and slaanesh for glaive knights

[Xasz]

4 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

I like the idea of the rebranded army being called godsworn but then you can't really toss in everchosen since archie kinda hates the chaos gods.

So do other worshipers, it's not that unique. (either other gods or even the one they are devoted to)

 

4 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Maybe if it was straight up called "The Undivided" or maybe "heralds of the end times" (sorry for those still sore about the death of fantasy).

'Slaves to Darkness' would already be a rather appropriate keyword. It encompasses the guys that think they are free and do not realize they are slaves (Darkoath), the ones that got forced into it and/or consumed by it (StD) and the slavers on top (Everchosen).

[Cambot1231]

What's the status of our old friend sayl the faithless these days? Any luck running  him and punting  chaos chosen or the like across the field? He looks somewhat over costed now that he has to bring the chaos spawn with him from first glance but if anyone has had some good experiences including him lately I'd like to hear about it.

[Galdenistal]

7 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

What's the status of our old friend sayl the faithless these days? Any luck running  him and punting  chaos chosen or the like across the field? He looks somewhat over costed now that he has to bring the chaos spawn with him from first glance but if anyone has had some good experiences including him lately I'd like to hear about it.

I use Sayl in a Khorne army that contains Knights and Gorebeast chariots. I feel the unit he teleports need to have a charge bonus to be effective, so being whipped by the Bloodstoker works really well combined with the Chaos Lord on Daemonic mounts command ability.

This gives you a real back line assassination threat, which to some degree forces your opponent to bubble wrap important units or hold other units back for cover which lessens their presence in the middle of the table.

Having to take Nightmaw isn't ideal but it makes Sayl significantly tankier and much less likely to get blown up with 1 ranged attack.

[Waiyuren]

23 hours ago, Frowny said:

What god do I dedicate my mostly knights forces to ? I'm leaning toward slaanesh or nurgle at this point, but could be convinced another way. The slaves ruleset itself doesn't feel the most exciting......

Nurgle for the knights; they already hit on 3s or 4s (2s or 3s with a mounted lord nearby), so rerolling 1s to wound is the better buff in my opinion. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Waiyuren
Go a rule wrong...

[RocketMan]

Hi guys, how about the deal of the new battleforce? Competitive play only 

[GeneralZero]

11 hours ago, RocketMan said:

Competitive play only 

Well, maybe the StD aren't yet the most competitive army (no battletome, just the CA 2018)

 

[Agent of Chaos]

Highly conditional yet still very average allegiance ability, no summoning, no deepstrike/ambushing movement shenanigans other than Sayl who has to bring Nightmaw and can be unbound, almost no mortal wound output or ranged attacks and the few units that can do damage (knights and chosen) are overcosted.

Slaves are very far from competitive right now and are best used to supplement a chaos god aligned army.

[GeneralZero]

12 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Slaves are very far from competitive right now and are best used to supplement a chaos god aligned army.

I am currently building my army the oposite way: having a core army (StD) of chaos, which can align to whatever chaos god is super fun. So, I've bought my core army with the big boxes. With this, I can give them all the flavors I want by just adding (or not) the big monsters of chaos: I can play them all with only one army!

A GUO, a lord of change, a khorne monster etc... I know that it is not super competitive but for the fun and for the collector that I am, it is priceless.