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AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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Thanks for the write up Gwendar. I'm surprised your storm fiends aren't targeted down quicker with very little to either screen or charge ahead before them, which is what i think the biggest threat would be. 

Any challenge with Skryres movement being relatively slow compared to the movement tricks of most new armies?

I suppose 2 lightning cannons shooting 3 times a turn plus magic is going to take a toll quickly :)

 

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Oh, they definitely get targeted after people see what they can do. Most people have caught on to and focus them as much as they can, but the only thing that I've ever had an issue with is shooting, however there are not very many shooting armies in my area that I've ran into.

The movement can be an issue against magic heavy or shooting armies like I stated above, but overall I tend to have enough wizards for dispels. Honestly, that 60 points that I play around with for either a CP or packmaster can easily be used to bring cogs for some extra movement. Maybe even a palisade+other spells to block off a sight-line which could be useful for getting to an objective/flanking easier and can be combined with shackles, or a maelstrom for even more unbinds.

I've had a cannon blow up after the first shot twice before (which is one reason I like bringing 2). I just tend to roll 5's and 6's for things that I shouldn't, like battleshock and cannon shots. With the amount of summoning/death/hero heavy armies that seem to be around locally, having all the MW output from cannons or spells has been the key to crippling all of them early on, before they can summon or buff up units properly. 

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I'm getting more confidence Skryre can do well potentially up to everything except high tier tournament level, but it always scares me not being able to have the bodies to back up a list such as yours.

Would you consider something like 2 units of 2 rat swarms that can multiply and potentially provide some more wounds on the board to create hurdles?

I tend to not leave home without 20-40 clanrats though that makes it hard to make the battalion work.

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Well, that's what the warpseer is for; to generate bodies. Sure he can get sniped, but generally by that point he'll have at least generated 12d6 worth in the first phase by blowing at 2 CP on his command ability.

I've never tried rat swarms but I hear great things. On paper I really don't see myself using them when they're so vulnerable. And for 110 each, I would rather have that extra cannon+the 60 points for a packmaster, spells, etc in my list. In order to have 2 units of them, I would need to give up both of those to make it work and I don't think that trade-off is worth it for a few more bodies. Especially since many of the objectives just require you to tap it, not keep anything on it the entire game unless you're afraid of someone stealing it.

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If you are going to blow your CPs on summoning giant rats, would you be better using that spare 60pts on your list to just buy 10x giant rat?
1x CP = 50 pts, and you get to roll 3d6. Seems like taking the 10 for 60pts is just guaranteeing a decent dice roll of 3d6.

How are you generating 12d6?

1x CP in 1st turn + 2x spares in your list? 3 CP? 3x 3d6 = 9d6 right?

re: rat swarms, you get 2 for 110pts being 8 wounds worth and another 4 wounds being added each turn.
I can see how that can have its uses.

I'm starting to warm up on idea of the warpseer :)

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Probably better, but considering he get's 3d6 per use I prefer to hedge my bets on rolling at least 10. Sure I can roll three 1's but..Hasn't happened so far. I tend to average at least 8-14 of them. Guess it's really up to what sounds better to you, especially since they can't move the first turn.

And I'm saying 1st turn + battlaion CP + 1 extra if I leave the 60 points to purchase a CP = 3 uses. So basically; my math was wrong because I was way too tired and bored when I wrote that up at work, lol.

I do want to experiment with swarms, but I just love my cannons too much to justify dropping one for some, essentially, objective holders. I'm just not willing to trade a potential hero deleting unit for a few 5 attacks 5/5/-/1 hits. Even with 4 wounds a piece my free giant rats fulfill the same purpose of tarpitting. Neither have a save value, and while swarms have 4 wounds a piece and generate themselves for free I will almost always generate at least 4-8 rats minimum which equals the same amount. I play against some rather aggressive players and I really just feel that the swarms would literally only last 1-2 turns before they get deleted which is about the same amount of time the giant rats last.

So I guess to me, it's about the same tradeoff. I may experiment with a proxy of them in a fluff list I want to mess with next game; a ridiculous amount of jezzails, cannons and maybe try the swarms with that.

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Is anyone running the Skryre battalion under GA Chaos?

I know a lot of people don't run too many clanrats when playing Skryre but I usually prefer to have the support bodies and could tweak things to adjust for battleline requirements.

I was thinking something along the lines of 2xArkhspark or Arkhspark-Gascloud.. thoughts?

Example List
1x arch-warlock
2x warlocks
3x stormfiends
3x stormfiends
10x acolytes
10x acolytes
2x poison wind mortar
Warp lightning cannon
Arkhspark
Gascloud
3x20 clanrats

Idea is accessing the crown of command to have more solid board presence and objective-nabbing ability, lots of wounds and very brave clanrats, whilst the stormfiends and battalion goes to work from behind the meat-wall. Don't think I can get the points to work by swapping out Gascloud with Rattleguage...

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But if you're willing to take the clanrats battle line tax, is the skryre allegiance still worth it? For the price of an arkhspark, a gascloud and a warlock you get two cannons more.

Is anyone running skryre with chaos GA and what is your feedback on it?

Cheers

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5 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

You can't run Skryre battalions without Skryre allegiance as well. 

Yeah you can.

Core Rule FAQ excerpt "In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of"

I see value in clanrats on the table, I know a lot of Skryre armies save the points for pure Skryre though.

But why take the battalion?
Well, for standard issue battalion + 2 covens which is 220pts, you get an extra CP, so thats 50pts value. You get an extra artefact, thats something.
The battalion gives you 1 drop for its units and you also get the arch-warlock re-roll.
Then as an example, if you went 2x Arkhspark, they could fire twice with 2x cannons.

2x extra cannons cost 360pts vs the above.

360 pts more wounds, more threats, same amount of shots at no risk vs 220pts, extra CP, extra artefact, 1 drop battalion, warlock re-roll and risk to oneself taking the extra shots...

Guess you just got to weight it up?

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@Nikobot I've decided to take a rattlegauge+arkhspark to the tourney this weekend after a long debate with myself. I was stuck between bringing 6 jezzails and 2 cannons, or 9 jezzails, 1 cannon, endless spells + an extra CP. 

Overall I think I may prefer the latter. Like you were saying, the risk vs. reward factor comes into play a lot. For jezzails in a rattlegauge; taking d3 MW's (2d3, if you vigordust them for the +1 to hit) hurts, so you have to create a bit of a buffer to that by running 9-12 of them instead of 6. Same goes for running 2 cannons with arkhspark; you're essentially just taking out an insurance policy and creating a buffer if something goes wrong. What I would really like is for someone to math out 9 jezzails vs 6 jezzails vs 1 cannon vs 2 cannons in some variety. Cannons not being affected by look out, sir puts them ahead in my book, but I still want to justify jezzails in some way and I'm just not sure how.

I may try both, but no matter what I will always vouch for using the battalion most of the time as having that drop count can be crucial. Granted with endless spells, it can hurt a bit less if you move their spells back onto them if they take the double turn, but I know our toys can do more damage so I always want to have the option to decide who goes first by having a 1-2 drop list.

Edited by Gwendar
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So my progression league goes to 1k this weekend and this is the list I'm bringing. I'm not 100% sold on it, as of yet, but I think it'll do alright. What do you think? The only thing I'd consider, possibly, is exchanging the Warp Lightning Cannon for 40 Clanrats, but I'm not sure it's necessary.  Also Wraithbow seem really fun for a shooty heavy army like this one.  The 18" range helps. My other alternative was maybe Rockjaws. D3 on a 3+ may seem more reliable, but I don't want my Warlock up in harms way really. 

Allegiance: Skryre

Mortal Realm: Shyish

Arch Warlock (140)

- Artefact: Wraithbow 

Warlock Engineer (100)

- General

- Trait: Overseer of Destruction 

5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

3 x Stormfiends (290)

1 x Ratling Gun Weapon Team (80)

1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

 

Total: 980 / 1000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 51

 

 

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3 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

So my progression league goes to 1k this weekend and this is the list I'm bringing. I'm not 100% sold on it, as of yet, but I think it'll do alright. What do you think? The only thing I'd consider, possibly, is exchanging the Warp Lightning Cannon for 40 Clanrats, but I'm not sure it's necessary.  Also Wraithbow seem really fun for a shooty heavy army like this one.  The 18" range helps. My other alternative was maybe Rockjaws. D3 on a 3+ may seem more reliable, but I don't want my Warlock up in harms way really. 

Allegiance: Skryre

Mortal Realm: Shyish

Arch Warlock (140)

- Artefact: Wraithbow 

Warlock Engineer (100)

- General

- Trait: Overseer of Destruction 

5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)

3 x Stormfiends (290)

1 x Ratling Gun Weapon Team (80)

1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)

Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

 

Total: 980 / 1000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 51

 

 

I'm a big fan of the WLC, especially in 1k games were there are fewer heroes, meaning it can be more critical for your opponent if they lose one by it being sniped.

At the same time, you have some very squishy units that could use a screen. You could even drop the ratling gun and 1 unit of acolytes for 2 more warpfire throwers, take a blob of 40 Clanrats and put the warpfire throwers inside/behind them. You're more or less trading off ranged sniping capability for a blob of death that if anything charges, will get melted by the warpfire throwers and your acolytes. 

I run an Arch Warlock, Engineer, 2x3 Stormfiends and a Cannon for my 1k. It tends to do the job well as Stormfiends are generally fine on there own while the wizards and cannon hang back and mortal wound everything down. 

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29 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I'm a big fan of the WLC, especially in 1k games were there are fewer heroes, meaning it can be more critical for your opponent if they lose one by it being sniped.

At the same time, you have some very squishy units that could use a screen. You could even drop the ratling gun and 1 unit of acolytes for 2 more warpfire throwers, take a blob of 40 Clanrats and put the warpfire throwers inside/behind them. You're more or less trading off ranged sniping capability for a blob of death that if anything charges, will get melted by the warpfire throwers and your acolytes. 

I run an Arch Warlock, Engineer, 2x3 Stormfiends and a Cannon for my 1k. It tends to do the job well as Stormfiends are generally fine on there own while the wizards and cannon hang back and mortal wound everything down. 

Unfortunately, I only have one of each weapon team currently. I think I'll go with the Clanrats and see how I like it. My WLC isn't done yet anyway. 

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2 games today, went 1-1. It was an interesting day with a lot learned. Any constructive criticism is great, so fire away. Sorry ahead of time for pics, I know they're not the best quality.

My list:
Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
- Trait: Masterful Scavenger 
- Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator 
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
Warlock Engineer (100)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
- Allies
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Warpfire Gauntlets
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
1 x Ratling Gun Weapon Team (80)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Clan Skryre (80)
Rattlegauge Warplock (70)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)

Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 260 / 400
Wounds: 83

First up was DoK, Played Shifting Objectives in Hysh
I tried to deploy in a way were I could whittle down the 3x20 units of witch aelves with shooting and banked on getting the double turn. I allow him to go first, he moves everything onto objectives and I fire away with hero phase/regular shooting mostly at the witch aelves, splitting a few shots off onto the cauldron to get it down a few notches along went to town unleashing spells and spreading out the damage as much as I could. 1st round I was down 5-1, but I crippled quite a few units with all of the shooting.

Luckily, I get the double turn and I throw out more volleys of shots to whittle down everything else a bit more before it can charge me and melt this fragile army of mine. The entire game I could only ever put 1 wound on the cauldron per turn...Those ward saves are nice. I wipe out his right side after he takes out 1 1/2 stormfiends with a slaughter queen on foot; I don't think I will underestimate their damage output while buffed up again. Sat the Stormfiends on the objective until the next turn when I left some giant rats to sit on it. 2nd ends with me down 9-2.

3rd round is where it really went off. Khinerai come down and try to shoot the arch warlock off his perch, but that 2+ save is glorious and he only takes ~1 wound. Morathi transforms while she's at 3 wounds and attempts to do as much as possible in CC to make up for the fact that most of the witch aelves were deleted aside from 7 on the left side hitting my cannon and ~10 on the middle objective w/ a death hag being held up by giant rats. He moves a death hag onto the left objective while on my turn I blast the 7 aelves on my cannon off and take a few more chunks out of the heros. I end down 11-5.

On 4th I get another double and finish off pretty much everything that's left with shooting, including poor Morathi; She never got to hit anything except for 5 giant rats that were biting her ankles and never got any spells off the entire game, arcane terrain is wonderful (along with having 5 unbinds). I tried to get Banishment off all game and either failed the cast (even with spark rerolls and +1) or it got unbound. This time I finally get it off and send his remaining death hag off the middle objective and to the corner of the table in time out. I get the Warpseer to charge the cauldron and finish it off while being within range of the objective for the major victory, ending 11-15 in my favor (counting of course for the 5th BR where I would've gained another 5).

Takeaways: This one went a lot better than I thought it would. Luckily I got the double turn twice and was able to shoot down the aelves and most of them never got into combat with anything relevant thanks to the giant rat screen holding them up for another turn to get shot at. 7 witch aelves putting out 16 wounds was interesting, I can't wait to play against my girlfriends DoK. Had I not gotten the double turns, I think this easily would've swung the other way. If any of those witch aelves got in, I was probably done. Who knows, but this list is incredibly defensive and really has no forward momentum to do anything aggressively.
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Second up was Mixed Order Dwarves. Played Better Part of Valour in Aqshy
Oh man, I knew I had no chance here. Right away I wanted to take this as a critique game against a more competitive list to see how I fared and learn as much as possible from a tournament player. I won the roll off, but decided to let him go first, knowing I was about to be hit in the face with 30 tunneling Vulkites. He puts everything within range of my wizards (I really should not have put them right up to the front, a mistake I often make) and lets loose in his shooting phase, killing my arch warlock and putting the Warpseer down to 1 wound. I shoot as much as I could, mostly focusing on the 30 vulkites that luckily failed their charge and taking the rest of the shots out on what I could. In the end, I panic and burn 2 of my objectives as I only had 5 acolytes on each, which automatically made the game a loss for me.

2nd/3rd Round, we decide to play it out and see what happens. The stormfiends take out some more Vulkites, I shoot some more at what is in range to whittle everything down. His 3 Endrinriggers leftover from original unit of 9 take out the cannon and I end up taking it down to 1 Endrin left. Long story short, I generate a bunch of rats that walk around a bit, I shoot some things and then we call it as I mathematically cannot win and the midget horde was closing in and I had no cannon left for those sweet MW's.

Takeaways: We had a good talk. Thomas Lyons is an awesome dude and glad we have him around locally to help give out advice and teach people about more competitive oriented things, so I was all for getting as much as I could. All in all, I found that I do play very, very defensively with this list in particular. Outside of the shooting, it really has absolutely no momentum to push up with only 1 unit of Stormfiends. I think I have also decided to discontinue running a battalion at 2k and Jezzails. It honestly makes no sense to use them thanks to both Look out, Sir and the poor amount of wounds they put out in comparison to a cannon, which I can take 2 of for less points than 9 jezzails who averaged 2 MW's and 4 regular wounds before saves, generally less. This is not helped by the fact they cannot MW during the hero phase shooting (between 9-12 of them is the only way to run them in my opinion).
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Overall, it was a fun day and I learned a lot. This list is definitely not meant for competitive play so I think I will have to do a lot of reworking which I will post here for feedback. I'm up in the air about the warpseer. I love the giant rats as a screen and sitting on an objective, but that really isn't needed since once it tags I can move off it if it is not being threatened. I do wonder if it isn't better to just take 80 clan rats and a grinder or 40 gutter runners to hit objectives. I'm leaning more towards 2x20 Gutter Runners simply for the superior combat effectiveness, shooting and the fact I don't have to paint more clanrats.

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@Gwendar  Thanks for posting your experience!

Doesn't sounds like the Jezzails did a good enough job. Though may have been a tough slog against that naked dwarven force no matter what you fielded as a minimal bodies Skryre army.

Something has to be said for having bodies on the table, I like my clanrats.

Are you feeling 2000pts is too small for The Skryre battalion in general? or just using anything other than Arkhspark?

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@Nikobot They sure didn't, and against DoK they were pulling about the same amount of wounds. I really just got lucky that he was playing them somewhat passively and the fact I got double turns to shoot them down. The issue against the dwarfs is they had just as much shooting, and honestly it was on par with/better than my own from my experience. Being able to outright kill my Arch-Warlock and take 11 wounds off a Warpseer even with his failed save re-rolls in the first turn? 9 jezzails can't come anywhere near that, even if you buff up their + to hit to make them do mortals on lower. I honestly just found them useful for whittling down different units instead of going all in on heros/monsters with them and even then there are things that do that better while being cheaper, like mortars w/ overseer and more WLC's.

I've always felt the battalion taxes are too costly for what they do at 2k and really only worth at 2.5k, and I've come to realize that generally out-dropping your opponent isn't always a huge deal. However, there is something to be said about what a 2 Arkhspark list could do, and I may do some testing between it and another list I came up with after contemplating the above games.

I may drop the Warpseer, throw in 1x20 and 1x10 gutter runners, a packmaster (I would field 3 units of stormfiends this time) and balewind + 2 WLC's instead of 1. Either that or drop the packmaster and balewind and go up to 2x20 Gutter Runners. Of course Clanrats will most likely be better, but I really dread the thought of painting 40 more of them. Not to mention unless I drop something important, I would be 50 points over with 2x40 + a grinder team.

Something to think on I guess, but next tourney I will see what can be done with the Gutter Runners, 3x3 Stormfiends and 2 WLC's. Depending how well that works out I may give 2 Arkhsparks a try for 4 shots a turn.

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Hey guys. I was tinkering with a little Skryre list. What do you think about it? What might be some weaknesses that need to be patched? That goal is to deepstrike with the warpthrowers and bombard with the poison mortars. Feedback is very welcomed :)

Allegiance: Skryre

Arch Warlock (140) - General
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)

10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)
10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 3 Warpfire Projectors
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 1 Grinderfist, 2 Shock Gauntlets
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)


Battalions
Clan Skryre (80)
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Gautfyre Skorch (150)


TOTAL: 2000/2000       EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1        WOUNDS: 96      

LEADERS: 3/6        BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)        BEHEMOTHS: 0/4       ARTILLERY: 0/4        ALLIES: 0/400

Edited by Magma
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