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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion

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16 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

It says "increase damage characteristic of the WEAPON by 1" weapon implies the entire weapon for that model which in turn would mean that all attacks benefit from that damage increase since all attacks happen at the same time.

You might be right there, apologies. I think what threw me is the function of the whole ‘a successful attack’ clause in it. Reading it your way, that section just means that you can’t add 1 to an attack by a weapon which dealt 0 damage, converting a failed attack into successful one. It would’ve helped for them to have written that more clearly in a second sentence, or just clarify that ‘For one weapon which has made a successful attack  during the battle round, you may double its damage characteristic’.

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1 hour ago, angrycontra said:

It says "increase damage characteristic of the WEAPON by 1" weapon implies the entire weapon for that model which in turn would mean that all attacks benefit from that damage increase since all attacks happen at the same time.

As far as I see it, it's just +1 damage for the weapon, that phase. So if you did 4 attacks, and they go through, you'd do 5 damage with each instead of 4 and the buff would wear off when combat ends. I would have liked the buff to be something like 'as long as the model is in combat' so it'd work for successive phases. But a permanent statline buff is asking for too much. 

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1 hour ago, angrycontra said:

It says "increase damage characteristic of the WEAPON by 1" weapon implies the entire weapon for that model which in turn would mean that all attacks benefit from that damage increase since all attacks happen at the same time. 

But hey what do I know, I'm no rules writer. Maybe this ability is just crappy massive nerf to the original but the wording used is pretty terrible either way. I'm not trying to powerplay here, I'm just showing that there is multiple ways to interpret this ability. Anyway, until faq comes, I'm going to play this ability assuming that it buffs all the attacks made by model but not as permanent effect, because if it is literally nothing more than +1 damage to the total, it is literally the worst allegiance ability in the history of aos period and I'd like to believe gw doesn't just shat on skyre just for the sake of it. 

I definitely read it as being permanent.  Effects that end specify the time they end.  I doubt it was intended to be though and would anticipate a FAQ.  I think some people may be looking at the GHB 2017 language here, not GHB 2018

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2 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

Do you think Skryre needs a horde or chaff for support, such as Clanrats or plague monks, or do you think we can get by with MSU Acolytes and Stormfriends? 

I have had much more success when including 40 clanrats since they could protect my warp lightning cannon, weapon teams, and engineers for several turns. Without them I found that enemy units could easily get units past my stormfiends to attack my weapon teams and cannon. That was with the original inspiring presence that I pretty much always put on the clan rats to make them completely immune. In second edition there is probably better uses for command points so they will be less durable but still useful.

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1 hour ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I have had much more success when including 40 clanrats since they could protect my warp lightning cannon, weapon teams, and engineers for several turns. Without them I found that enemy units could easily get units past my stormfiends to attack my weapon teams and cannon. That was with the original inspiring presence that I pretty much always put on the clan rats to make them completely immune. In second edition there is probably better uses for command points so they will be less durable but still useful.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Bubble wrap, as it were. As much as I hate swarmy critter armies lol. Thing is, I only play 1250 or 1000pt games and I'm sorta struggling to fit everything I want in a list. I sure as heck can't seem to fit both two units of Stormfriends and a Lightning Cannon as well. Any ideas? I pretty much have this on lock, for now:

Warlock Engineer 

Stormfiends 

2x Poison Mortar Teams 

Thata 510. What's the best thing to include from here? 

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Well you'll need either another unit of Stormfriends or a unit of Acolytes to meet Battleline requirements first I suppose. Assuming Stormfriends, that gets you to 800 points, leaving you a mighty 200 points (assuming we're talking about a 1000 point game). You need some bodies, as otherwise this is a nine model army, so we could ally in 20 Clanrats with 80 points left for another weapons team, or 40 Clanrats to bring us to a nice round 1k.

I can't in good conscience recommend Acolytes given that the models are, as I have exasperatedly noted on several occasions, €10 each, which is aggravating when they're the only possible unit in the army that can use one of its allegiance abilities! However, if you fancy converting your own, they may be a handy alternative to Stormfriends. My access to Acolytes has just improved immensely with the realisation that the Warp Lightning Cannon comes with not one, not two, but three of the gasmask heads! ? 

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17 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Well you'll need either another unit of Stormfriends or a unit of Acolytes to meet Battleline requirements first I suppose. Assuming Stormfriends, that gets you to 800 points, leaving you a mighty 200 points (assuming we're talking about a 1000 point game). You need some bodies, as otherwise this is a nine model army, so we could ally in 20 Clanrats with 80 points left for another weapons team, or 40 Clanrats to bring us to a nice round 1k.

I can't in good conscience recommend Acolytes given that the models are, as I have exasperatedly noted on several occasions, €10 each, which is aggravating when they're the only possible unit in the army that can use one of its allegiance abilities! However, if you fancy converting your own, they may be a handy alternative to Stormfriends. My access to Acolytes has just improved immensely with the realisation that the Warp Lightning Cannon comes with not one, not two, but three of the gasmask heads! ? 

I like the idea of Acolytes a lot. I've looked over the metal models entirely as I'm converting my weapons teams either way, too. But I've heard very mixed opinions about them, and how they ought to be played. And then, if one group of Stormfriends is really enough, you know?

It kinda looks like a lightning cannon is sort of essential to the game plan, too.  Else all you have for ranged mortals is your engineer. So lemme see if I can wiggle something good out of here. 

Engineer 100

Packmaster 60

Stormfiends 290 

2x Poison Mortars 120

Lightning Cannon 180 

10x Acolytes 120

20x Clanrats 120 

990/1000

Think that's enough oomph in the list? 

 

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7 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

I like the idea of Acolytes a lot. I've looked over the metal models entirely as I'm converting my weapons teams either way, too. But I've heard very mixed opinions about them, and how they ought to be played. And then, if one group of Stormfriends is really enough, you know?

It kinda looks like a lightning cannon is sort of essential to the game plan, too.  Else all you have for ranged mortals is your engineer. So lemme see if I can wiggle something good out of here. 

Engineer 100

Packmaster 60

Stormfiends 290 

2x Poison Mortars 120

Lightning Cannon 180 

10x Acolytes 120

20x Clanrats 120 

990/1000

Think that's enough oomph in the list? 

 

Split the acolytes into 2x5 ;) Always work better.

Otherwise, I think it's alright. Could consider 2xRatling guns instead of warplightning cannon to get more out of the 2.0 warptoken allegiance ability, and make your force a more compact, mobile force with good firepower.

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Since the last MP story I started looking for info about the Skaven and while I have the old skaven vs HE box from WFB I'm not a very fan of those models but I ended up liking Skyre a lot so once I  have paint all my new stormcast and IJ I plan to start with Skyre.

I'm looking to make a 2k pts list but not really competitive (my local group is very friendly, we usually play narrative ) and I really like the doomwheel model, how is that unit in the tabletop?

I'm thinking of usin Stormfiends, Arch-warlock and some cannons (maybe use the mortar since it came with the old WFB box) 

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41 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Split the acolytes into 2x5 ;) Always work better.

Otherwise, I think it's alright. Could consider 2xRatling guns instead of warplightning cannon to get more out of the 2.0 warptoken allegiance ability, and make your force a more compact, mobile force with good firepower.

Or swap the Clanrats out for a Doom wheel, since 20 rats isn't going to do much anyway. Hmm! 

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1 hour ago, RaritanAnon said:

Or swap the Clanrats out for a Doom wheel, since 20 rats isn't going to do much anyway. Hmm! 

The clanrats are there to die, tbh. Their sole purpose is to stand between the enemy and your guns. Even more important now that units in combat can not shoot out of it :)

 

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@MaypleI'm gonna have to get some more from you on splitting the Acolytes up. In my experience they don't achieve much and die easily in units of 5, can you expand?

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7 hours ago, Mayple said:

The clanrats are there to die, tbh. Their sole purpose is to stand between the enemy and your guns. Even more important now that units in combat can not shoot out of it :)

 

I'm just putting the pieces of the toolkit together, as it were. I'm a little limited in 1000pts, but even still I don't like the idea of painting a squad of 40+ again. I already did that with LoN earlier this year lol. I just need to get some of this built up and ready and the puzzle will make a little more sense. I can't keep posting army list ideas here and expect the answer to hit me in the face. 

The biggest caveat of 1000pts is to take two Stormfiends, or to take one and Acolytes. I'm not sure which will work better, or would be smarter than the other. It's likely Skryre will just die to objective game anyway lol

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1 hour ago, RaritanAnon said:

I'm just putting the pieces of the toolkit together, as it were. I'm a little limited in 1000pts, but even still I don't like the idea of painting a squad of 40+ again. I already did that with LoN earlier this year lol. I just need to get some of this built up and ready and the puzzle will make a little more sense. I can't keep posting army list ideas here and expect the answer to hit me in the face. 

The biggest caveat of 1000pts is to take two Stormfiends, or to take one and Acolytes. I'm not sure which will work better, or would be smarter than the other. It's likely Skryre will just die to objective game anyway lol

I'd suggest two units of Stormfiends then. If you don't have the tools to protect your guns, you can at least bring muscle to punish the enemy if they go for them. Stormfiends are terrifyingly effective to that end :)

shock gauntlets if buffed, warpfire if not, is the general rule of thumb, but ratling guns could work for them in the new edition, and personal preference of course takes precedence. Avoid the mortars on them though!

2 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

@MaypleI'm gonna have to get some more from you on splitting the Acolytes up. In my experience they don't achieve much and die easily in units of 5, can you expand?

Since they're shooting, they lose nothing from splitting into 2x5. Run them around as a single group, even while split, by all means. Splitting them only makes them more durable, and gives you more units to work with in terms of map/objective coverage.

To simplify: Wiping out two separate units of 5 is harder than wiping out one unit of 10 :)

 

notable exception if you're trying to have less drops than your opponent. Although with Skaven in general, I personally gravitate towards having a much higher drop count than my opponent, to out-deploy them easily. 

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11 hours ago, Mayple said:

I'd suggest two units of Stormfiends then. If you don't have the tools to protect your guns, you can at least bring muscle to punish the enemy if they go for them. Stormfiends are terrifyingly effective to that end :)

shock gauntlets if buffed, warpfire if not, is the general rule of thumb, but ratling guns could work for them in the new edition, and personal preference of course takes precedence. Avoid the mortars on them though!

So I've talked with another dude who placed 10th at a tournament with Skryre. He sort of disapproves of me trying to run Skryre at 1000pts lol. I see where he's coming from though. I hate the idea of painting another 40 dudes but this does look like its the best option. How does this look? Warlock and Engineer for spells, Acolytes to backup the Clanrats. Warpflame and Stormfriends to help out with the mortal wound output behind the horde. I can't tell if its scary, or not.
    Arch Warlock (140)
    Warlock Engineer (100)
    5x Skryre Acolytes (60)
    5x Skryre Acolytes (60)
    3x Stormfriends (290) - 3x Warpfire Projectors
    2x Warpflame Teams (140)
    40x Clanrats (200)
    - Rusty Spears
    990/1000
    

    

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That's essentially my last 1000 point list, except I only had 20 Clanrats, 1 Warpfire Thrower team, different weapons on the Stormfiends (gotta work with whatcha got) and a Doomwheel. My Acolytes and Warpfire Thrower did nothing except die and the rest of the army killed 1000 points of Slaaneshi daemons, whilst almost dying to the last rat at the same time.

Make of that what you will.

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Do we have a summary of the changes in GBH 2018 for Skryre? Did any of the traits or artifacts change? 

Also excited about the realm artifacts because Skryre artifacts have always been massively underwhelming for me...

Edited by Reeve

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Additional question: Does anyone know where to find the battalions rules?

I bought the GHB2018 and was hoping to get all rules I needed for my new Skryre army, but there are no battalions... just the allegiance abilities.

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1 minute ago, Lazaris said:

Additional question: Does anyone know where to find the battalions rules?

I bought the GHB2018 and was hoping to get all rules I needed for my new Skryre army, but there are no battalions... just the allegiance abilities.

They're in the Grand Alliance: Chaos book. Odd they never updated them or put them anywhere else, I know. 

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56 minutes ago, Reeve said:

Do we have a summary of the changes in GBH 2018 for Skryre? Did any of the traits or artifacts change? 

Also excited about the realm artifacts because Skryre artifacts have always been massively underwhelming for me...

From memory the only things that changed are that warpstone sparks now add one to the damage characteristic of one models weapon and the vigour dust injector's range is now wholly within 12".  There might be some more subtle changes that I didn't notice. 

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1 hour ago, Reeve said:

Do we have a summary of the changes in GBH 2018 for Skryre? Did any of the traits or artifacts change? 

Also excited about the realm artifacts because Skryre artifacts have always been massively underwhelming for me...

I feel ya on the artifacts. You either get more sparks with the resonator, or you take the vigordust. Other thing, though, is that most of the Realm artifacts are generally buffs for your general. Some of them are decent like that one that halves damage from spells, or gives you more CP on a 5+.

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16 hours ago, RaritanAnon said:

I feel ya on the artifacts. You either get more sparks with the resonator, or you take the vigordust. Other thing, though, is that most of the Realm artifacts are generally buffs for your general. Some of them are decent like that one that halves damage from spells, or gives you more CP on a 5+.

The Shyish artifacts are kinda flavorful in what they do, spam Mortal Wounds. The Wraithbow, for instance, allows you to do MW to an enemy unit within 18"

I've always found the downside on the Vigordust Injector a bit overblown, why do you take guaranteed mortal wounds from a buff that most armies deal out for free? I'd prefer a 'roll a dice after using, on a roll of 1 you take 6 mortal wounds or something comparable. The artifacts are also just way too narrow in what they do, most of them can only (reasonably) target a single unit in the entire army. 

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While it does feel thematic that 50% of our artefacts hurt us, I really don't think the benefits outweigh the negative. There should be more of a risk/reward mechanic built in, like with overcharging the weapons teams and war machines.

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5 hours ago, Reeve said:

The Shyish artifacts are kinda flavorful in what they do, spam Mortal Wounds. The Wraithbow, for instance, allows you to do MW to an enemy unit within 18"

I've always found the downside on the Vigordust Injector a bit overblown, why do you take guaranteed mortal wounds from a buff that most armies deal out for free? I'd prefer a 'roll a dice after using, on a roll of 1 you take 6 mortal wounds or something comparable. The artifacts are also just way too narrow in what they do, most of them can only (reasonably) target a single unit in the entire army. 

I use it and a pack master on a unit of 2 shock gauntlet and one warpfire stormfeinds to get the d6 hits on a 4+. That unit while buffed up has killed at different times a lord of change, terrorgeist, 30 ghouls, and pretty much anything in combat with it. 

Now if they ever change shockgauntlets to trigger on unmodified 6s then vigour dust probably won't be worth it and I have not considered using it on any other unit since the damage could kill weapon teams.

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13 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I use it and a pack master on a unit of 2 shock gauntlet and one warpfire stormfeinds to get the d6 hits on a 4+. That unit while buffed up has killed at different times a lord of change, terrorgeist, 30 ghouls, and pretty much anything in combat with it. 

Now if they ever change shockgauntlets to trigger on unmodified 6s then vigour dust probably won't be worth it and I have not considered using it on any other unit since the damage could kill weapon teams.

Packmasters and Stormfiends are awesome (including Stormfiends in a mono-moulder list is also awesome) but in 1k my full ally slot is almost always filled by 40 Clanrats. 

3 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

While it does feel thematic that 50% of our artefacts hurt us, I really don't think the benefits outweigh the negative. There should be more of a risk/reward mechanic built in, like with overcharging the weapons teams and war machines.

That's my issue as well. They are high risk (which is fine) but not all that high reward compared to artifacts from other factions. 

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