AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion

[Gwendar]

52 minutes ago, Magma said:

Hey guys. I was tinkering with a little Skryre list. What do you think about it? What might be some weaknesses that need to be patched? That goal is to deepstrike with the warpthrowers and bombard with the poison mortars. Feedback is very welcomed

Allegiance: Skryre

Arch Warlock (140) - General
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)

10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)
10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 3 Warpfire Projectors
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 1 Grinderfist, 2 Shock Gauntlets
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)

Battalions
Clan Skryre (80)
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Gautfyre Skorch (150)

TOTAL: 2000/2000       EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1        WOUNDS: 96      

LEADERS: 3/6        BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)        BEHEMOTHS: 0/4       ARTILLERY: 0/4        ALLIES: 0/400

Looks solid enough, I don't see many people trying gascloud+gautfyre. Most just do arkhspark with it.

That said, you will most likely run into the same issue everyone does with gautfyre though; it has no staying power and is incredibly easy to counter-deploy against you to deny you MWing anything important down. Remember all of your MW capability only has an 8"range, so people will easily deny you that if they know what you are running. Once you pop up and let loose, if you don't get the double/roll enough MW's to really kill what needs to be killed, you're going to get smacked back much harder than you can hit 9/10 times. Not to mention your 3 mortars, 1 engineer and arch warlock will be vulnerable (or safe from the counter attack your gautfyre coven will receive, depends how you look at it) since they do not tunnel up with everything else.

I've always felt if you're going to go gautfyre, go all out and use 3x3 stormfiends all with warpfire. Split the warpfire attacks accordingly with each unit of fiends and it works out nicely that way you minimize overkilling targets. That said, I am curious to see how this does so I say go for it and let us know. The mortars can be great for hordes but I've mostly stopped using them unless I'm using overseer, and even then they are unimpressive.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Gwendar

[Magma]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

I've always felt if you're going to go gautfyre, go all out and use 3x3 stormfiends all with warpfire. Split the warpfire attacks accordingly with each unit of fiends and it works out nicely that way you minimize overkilling targets.

@GwendarThanks for the input and your answers! Greatly appreciate it :) What do you prefere as a loadout for melee stormfiends? Is the 1 Grinderfist & 2 Shock Gauntlets the optimal way to go? Or are the Doomflayer Gauntlets better because of the higher Rend?

Do you think this list will have a chance in objective scenarios or would I need more bodies for that?

 

[Gwendar]

@Magma Without a packmaster to buff the Shock Gauntlets to-hit (and thus their chance at generating d6 automatic hits), they generally don't do as well as doomflayers, especially on the charge since that gets the flayers down to 2 to hit on that turn. I usually just vigordust shock gauntlets in the absence of a packmaster, but if you plan to tunnel them up then that would be an issue. Even then it's better to packmaster+vigordust shock gauntlets for maximum deletion.

The problem with tunneling them with grinderfists is you take a risk in not getting off that 9" charge unless you circumvent it with something like cogs (or a nearby hero to re-roll charge rolls for a CP). I would still try, but to stop rambling and answer the question: Yes, doomflayers are generally better unbuffed, shock gauntlets are better with at least +1 to hit (unless you're trying to take out a 2+ save hero or something) and grinders are good all-round option so it should do fine if you get the charge off after tunneling.

As for the other question, if you're going for a gautfyre list you can struggle with objectives if you don't get the double turn and kill as much as possible before it runs off. I played it in scorched earth one time against DoK and only won by 1-2 points by leaving acolytes, an engineer and a cannon on my objectives, all of which got promptly deleted by 10 Khinerai as expected. If you can gauge from my above battle report, we really need bodies. Whether you use clanrats or gutter runners for that is your choice, but you really need something to sit on/screen/steal objectives and large bodies of 20-40+ wounds will do that for enough time to kill anything that is trying to move them.

Or, you know, just hope you get a decent battle plan and kill everything with fire before it can capitalize on anything.

[Filius]

6 hours ago, Magma said:

Hey guys. I was tinkering with a little Skryre list. What do you think about it? What might be some weaknesses that need to be patched? That goal is to deepstrike with the warpthrowers and bombard with the poison mortars. Feedback is very welcomed

Allegiance: Skryre

Arch Warlock (140) - General
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)

10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)
10 x Skryre Acolytes (120)
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 3 Warpfire Projectors
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 1 Grinderfist, 2 Shock Gauntlets
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)

Battalions
Clan Skryre (80)
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Gautfyre Skorch (150)

TOTAL: 2000/2000       EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1        WOUNDS: 96      

LEADERS: 3/6        BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)        BEHEMOTHS: 0/4       ARTILLERY: 0/4        ALLIES: 0/400

I can't really add anything of use to the discussion, but I want to say this: Woo-hoooww! I would love to see that army on the table! Although the next comments sound like it's going to be a hard fight for you, it somehow sounds like a lot of fun. So. I hope, you'll have fun with it an may post some photos! Thanks for sharing! 

 

 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

I've been very interested in starting up Clan Skryre, so any advice I can get would be great! May I ask what I should start with for my collection? And where can I find the rules for the Enginecovens?

[Kirjava13]

Easiest bits to get hold of will probably be the Stormfiends, Warplightning Cannon and Doomwheel, as they all have very nice plastic kits and are generally available. Some of the rest, like the old metal Arch-Warlock, can be found on GW's website, but the really nice plastic Warlock, poison wind mortar and warpfire thrower can only be found on the second-hand market these days. For Skryre Acolytes, you'll have to cough up for ancient metal models or, as many people do, convert your own (mine are mostly kitbashes of Stormvermin and gasmasked heads from other Skaven kits).

Skryre allegiance abilities can be found in the General's Handbook 2018, for what they're worth (not a great deal), and the rules for the Skryre battalion and Enginecovens are in the Grand Alliance: Chaos book.

Hope that helps, now go forth and delete your opponents with mortal wounds!

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

46 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Easiest bits to get hold of will probably be the Stormfiends, Warplightning Cannon and Doomwheel, as they all have very nice plastic kits and are generally available. Some of the rest, like the old metal Arch-Warlock, can be found on GW's website, but the really nice plastic Warlock, poison wind mortar and warpfire thrower can only be found on the second-hand market these days. For Skryre Acolytes, you'll have to cough up for ancient metal models or, as many people do, convert your own (mine are mostly kitbashes of Stormvermin and gasmasked heads from other Skaven kits).

Skryre allegiance abilities can be found in the General's Handbook 2018, for what they're worth (not a great deal), and the rules for the Skryre battalion and Enginecovens are in the Grand Alliance: Chaos book.

Hope that helps, now go forth and delete your opponents with mortal wounds!

Thanks so much!

[Magma]

@Gwendar Thank you for your fast answers and for the ideas! I think I'll go with 1 Grinderfist and 2 Doomflayers then as they will be mostly unbuffed. To consider your input about allies, I tinkered some more and came up with this list

Allegiance: Skryre

Warlock Engineer (100) - General
Warlock Engineer (100)

5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 1 Grinderfist, 2 Doomflayers
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 3 Warpfire Projectors
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)

Battalions
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Gautfyre Skorch (150)

TOTAL: 1600/2000     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 8     WOUNDS: 77
LEADERS: 2/6     BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)     BEHEMOTHS: 0/4     ARTILLERY: 0/4     ARTEFACTS: 0/1     ALLIES: 0/400

 

This list leaves you with 400pts worth for allies. Like that you could ally in 2x20 Gutter Runners, 2x40 Clanrats, or if you'd like to you could go for Thanquol and Boneripper just for the fun and style

Any feedback on the list?

Edited August 28, 2018 by Magma

[Oldmanlee]

1 hour ago, Magma said:

@Gwendar Thank you for your fast answers and for the ideas! I think I'll go with 1 Grinderfist and 2 Doomflayers then as they will be mostly unbuffed. To consider your input about allies, I tinkered some more and came up with this list

Allegiance: Skryre

Warlock Engineer (100) - General
Warlock Engineer (100)

5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 1 Grinderfist, 2 Doomflayers
3 x Stormfiends (290) - 3 Warpfire Projectors
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)

Battalions
Gascloud Chokelung (70)
Gautfyre Skorch (150)

TOTAL: 1600/2000     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 8     WOUNDS: 77
LEADERS: 2/6     BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)     BEHEMOTHS: 0/4     ARTILLERY: 0/4     ARTEFACTS: 0/1     ALLIES: 0/400

 

This list leaves you with 400pts worth for allies. Like that you could ally in 2x20 Gutter Runners, 2x40 Clanrats, or if you'd like to you could go for Thanquol and Boneripper just for the fun and style

Any feedback on the list?

This is list is illegal I'm sorry to say you need the caln skyre battalion to use the engine covens  and  arch warlock 

 

[Gwendar]

@MagmaAs oldmanlee said it is illegal. A clan skryre battalion (another 80 pts) consists of 2-5 enginecovens and you must have an arch-warlock (another 140) which leave you with 180 points leftover. You could drop a warpfire team and add in 20 Gutter Runners or 40 Clanrats and have 50 left over for either a CP or and endless spell or two. Or drop a mortar and have 40 left over for some endless spells.

Also, are you intending to tunnel up the grinderfist/doomflayer group away from the main group for any reason? Just remember that the gautfyre tunnels up within 8" of the grinder but doesn't have to roll to do so, it just does. The grinderfist needs a 3+ so it is entirely possible that you flub that and are missing a unit of stormfiends for a turn and you only get the re-roll 1 dice per the battalion ability in the hero phase, so they would not get it since grinderfists happens in the movement phase. Not to mention you won't have to tunnel up 9" away, so you can almost guarantee a charge. The only other thing I would add is that unless you only have certain weapon options built (or you aren't allowed proxies were you play), I would make all 3 of those stormfiends doomflayers if you want to tunnel them up with the gautfyre coven. Or, you know, give that group warpfire projectors instead. Clubbing blows still do quite well in combat.

Also, since mortars are very hit or miss, I would recommend the engineer with the mortars to be the general and use overseer of destruction to give them re-rolls of 1 to hit. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Gwendar

[Magma]

4 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Also, are you intending to tunnel up the grinderfist/doomflayer group away from the main group for any reason?

I don't think that I can tunnel them with the gautfyre because they need to be part of the gascloud chokelung. Or am I missing something? ?

4 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Also, since mortars are very hit or miss, I would recommend the engineer with the mortars to be the general and use overseer of destruction to give them re-rolls of 1 to hit.  

So you would go with the engineer from the chokelung to be the general and not the arch-warlock? What would be the artefact of choice here for him or thr arch-warlock?

For the engineer with the gautfyre I wanted to go for the Vigordust injector.

[Gwendar]

Ah, you're right. I'm used to running arkhspark (no stormfiend requirement) and using 3 fiend units for my gautfyre so they come up together, my mistake. 

Overseer is a command trait, and only your general gets those, hence why I would make him general. You can still give the gautfyre engineer vigordust and someone else warp warp resonator or something since our traits/artifacts are mostly terrible. 

Although I guess it doesn't particularly matter much if you plan on keeping your Arch Warlock beside your mortar teams anyway, then he can still be general and use overseer. I think I need sleep. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

Would you all say the Skryre battalion is near-mandatory?  If so, what enginecovens are good for what? After looking at Gautfyre I feel like I hate it considerably, but nobe of the others seem at all interesting.

[RaritanAnon]

26 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Would you all say the Skryre battalion is near-mandatory?  If so, what enginecovens are good for what? After looking at Gautfyre I feel like I hate it considerably, but nobe of the others seem at all interesting.

Arkhspark is my go-to. It's just a chance to fire in the hero phase, with very little tax or risk. Just an engineer and a WLC. Gascloud is alright, but it requires two Acolytes and a Stormfiend, and only does D6 mortals. That does cover all three of your battleline though. 

[Magma]

On 8/28/2018 at 8:46 PM, Gwendar said:

Ah, you're right. I'm used to running arkhspark (no stormfiend requirement) and using 3 fiend units for my gautfyre so they come up together, my mistake. 

...

Although I guess it doesn't particularly matter much if you plan on keeping your Arch Warlock beside your mortar teams anyway, then he can still be general and use overseer. I think I need sleep. 

No problem, mate. Thanks for all the help and input

Would you say the warpfire throwers are worth running without the battalion/enginecoven? Because without the points for them, we would have more spare points to ally in some more gutter runners.

[RaritanAnon]

Warpfire Throwers are great if you have something to hide behind like a block of Clanrats or something, but otherwise they're very very squishy and prone to blowing themselves up, as well. Ratling guns are a little better at being alone as they can sit in cover and shoot 18"

[Gwendar]

What @RaritanAnon said. I really only find them useful either in gautfyre or mixed skaven lists behind/within clanrats to screen since their range and makes them pretty vulnerable otherwise. I have used a ratling gun team as part of rattlegauge coven tax, it did alright, nothing too great.

I'm going to try running 40 Gutter Runners next tourney at the end of September. The biggest issue with Skryre is body count, and when using gautfyre that isn't as big of a deal since your whole plan is to kill everything before it can score too many objective points. Like I've said before, I'm kind of turned off to skryre battalions (other than gautfyre, but I don't want to be that guy at local games) unless it's 2.5k+. I think if you drop warpfire and fit in more bodies you would do well, but at the same time having 1-2 warpfire throwers behind 40 clanrats works wonders..You just have to ensure it all gets there in one piece. Cogs can be your friend.

Anyway, I plan on taking this:
Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
- Trait: Masterful Scavenger 
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Warpfire Projectors
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Shock Gauntlets (probably will proxy as doomflayers)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 1 Grinderfist, 2 Ratling Guns
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
- Allies
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
- Allies
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 1970 / 2000

I have a few variations on that, maybe trying double arkhspark by dropping 20 GR's, or dropping 20 GR's and an engineer to throw in 40 clanrats + a grinder team. I even considered dropping 20 GR's for 2 mortar's + a packmaster. Extra points all being filled with endless spells (probably balewind, I dislike most others) so it will definitely require some testing between all of these. I imagine the original will work out the best however; 2x20 GR's coming in from anywhere to shoot + charge is a great distraction to let the Stormfiends march up the board and anything the runners kill is a bonus. Or use them to pop up onto an objective first turn since they must come out your first movement phase unfortunately.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Gwendar

[Kirjava13]

Anyone got any Skryre-specific suggestions for playing Daughters of Khaine?

Edited September 2, 2018 by Kirjava13

[Gwendar]

24 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Anyone got any Skryre-specific suggestions for playin Daughters of Khaine?

Shoot/magic the hell out of them before they touch you where your average/poor saves will cause them to melt you in 1 round of combat. Shackles work great to slow them down a bit, WLC's (running 2 is best) will be the best at dealing with their buffing units. Important to get 3 wound on morathi per turn before they decide to transform her.

I did well against them in my previous battle report, just spread out ranged damage to whittle down their numbers before they get to you and hope you get the double turn to do so. Finish off with close combat stormfiends. 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Gwendar

[Gwendar]

Had a quick 1k game yesterday against my own Ironjawz (buddy is still getting his Seraphon built/painted). Played battle for the Pass, which I find works really well for smaller games.

My list:
Allegiance: Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Shock Gauntlets
3 x Stormfiends (290)
- 3 Proxied Ratling Guns (I really didn't want to use Warpfire on him, but that was a mistake)
15 x Gutter Runners (180)
- Allies

His list:
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
Ironfist (180)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Rd1: We play this scenario lengthways at 1k rather than the normal wide deployment. Unfortunately, I went first which means the Gutter Runners had to come out right away and he left his gore-grunta unit in the backline to keep them off his objective, which they did exceptionally well. Gutter Runner shooting took a couple of wounds off his Megaboss and a unit of brutes, everything else moved onward to the objectives. His turn, he charged my Gutter Runners and proceeded to kill most of them, and I rolled like garbage with the remaining few I had left, did a couple wounds which he saved. After battleshock, I only had 1 left which he proceeded to finish off with an arcane bolt to allow his gore-gruntas to move up. I'm down 1-3

Rd2: He gets the double, so everything gets moved onto the objectives which ends up giving him a pretty substantial lead in the end. My turn, I do some MW's with Warpstorm, but my Engineer decided to kill himself by rolling snake eyes on an empowered warp-lightning cast and my dice decided to roll a 6 on the self-inflicted roll, killing himself; joy. My left side stormfiends (ratling guns) kill 2 brutes and I then decide to charge in with both Stormfiend units. I get some payback as my right side stormfiends (shock gauntlets) charged his Brutes and absolutely deleted them doing 20 damage after saves. The look on my face after I rolled five 6's to hit...I actually felt bad after this and decided to just use clubbing blows from here on out, although I really shouldn't have. This game is very swingy, and I think he realizes that now (he is still somewhat new to the game). I'm down 4-8

Rd3: He wins roll off, charges in his gore-gruntas and to the left side stormfiends and ends up killing all of them after combat with me only killing 2 brutes. My turn I get Warpstorm off, however I rolled two 1's to damage his megaboss and gore-grunta unit, and only do 1 MW to his remaining brute on the left side. mystic shield on the stormfiends. Right side objective successfully capped, I charge his Megaboss and get him down to 3 wounds, he hits back exceptionally well and kills 1 1/2 stormfiends. I'm down 7-11

Rd4: He wins roll off again, charges his gore-gruntas into my arch-warlock, killing him and bringing me down to 1 stormfiend left with his megaboss ~2 wounds left. I call it there ending with a loss at 10-14


Takeaways: Hard to say honestly as I think most of my choices were based on him being a newer player and me not wanting to game anything too heavily. He's a co-worker that is just getting into it but has played some miniatures/wargames in the past so he thinks about the tactics of his play more than the average new player, so I probably should've just went all out like using warpfire instead of ratling guns, or continuing to use shock gauntlets after the brute unit deletion. He did say he wanted more of a challenge after all.

If I had to give any criticism on my part, I probably should've put the Gutter Runners elsewhere. I depend on them too heavily to do anything relevant and after losing a few, they crumble to battleshock like any other Skaven unit since they are too far away for IP. I do still intend to try using 2x20 of them in the next 2k tourney, but I think for the next 1k game I may try dropping the engineer, throwing in a warp-grinder team + 40 clanrats.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

What's the community opinion of ratling guns? 

[RaritanAnon]

Just now, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

What's the community opinion of ratling guns? 

On Stormfiends I think they're worthless. Why would you put your big meaty monsters at range with pretty crappy guns? 

On their own in teams, I've ran one for a few games now. Even at 4d6 shots, 4+/4+ isn't great. Makes his points back, if barely. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

7 minutes ago, RaritanAnon said:

On Stormfiends I think they're worthless. Why would you put your big meaty monsters at range with pretty crappy guns? 

On their own in teams, I've ran one for a few games now. Even at 4d6 shots, 4+/4+ isn't great. Makes his points back, if barely. 

I get you. I'm just trying to figure out what I want to convert my Island of Blood warpfire throwers to!

[RaritanAnon]

14 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I get you. I'm just trying to figure out what I want to convert my Island of Blood warpfire throwers to!

Warpfire Throwers are amazing. Where else can you find D6 mortal wounds for 70pts? Failing that, why not just do a Ratling or maybe a Warpgrinder. It's fun to have options. 

[Gwendar]

Warpfire throwers are great, assuming you can drill them up with gautfyre or can place them behind a screen of some sort, I wouldn't convert mine unless you take the ends off to put on stormfiends for more projectors. 

On the stormfiend subject, I agree and it's why I've decided to chop off the ratling gun bits off my stormfiends and replace them with grinderfists. I rarely pull more than ~3 wounds after saves with ratling guns meanwhile having 1 unit of 3 grinderfists has the possibility of doing ~10 and with so many people using cogs nowadays, there's a good chance you can get +2 to charge.