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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion

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52 minutes ago, Kurkulem said:

For me skaven codex will not be competitive in hight level, exept for mass control

Well our armie won’t be broken as some certain faction already are, but correctly used and with some underhanded tactics   We should be able to literally lay down any foe, that dares laugh at us.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kurkulem said:

For me skaven codex will not be competitive in hight level, exept for mass control.

my first try:

Thanquol 400

2x archloch 200

gnawlord 100

Deceveir 300

 

40/40/20 rats 520

2x cannons 360

 

Warp Lightning Vortex 100

1980

Thanquol is master piece, enought hp to use flamers, use control spell (halve mov) and summon lightning to block ennemy forces.

arloch with cannons use Gnawholes to snipe hight value target.

Rats score objs, Deceveir help control.

I like this list for the models and the need for 100 clan rats...balancing pretty big models with the footsloggers to hold the line and objectives.  

I might swap the cannon(s) and some of the cheaper heros for other guns...based on the models i have and not because they are more useful.

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I'm dreaming up a list based on the previews:

400 - Thanquol

200 - Screaming Bell

100 - Bombardier

200 x 3 = 600 - 40 x 3 Clanrats/Battleline

240 - 40 Plague monks

180 x 2 = 360 Warp Lightning cannons

100 - New Warpstone Vortex Endless Spell (not 100% on the name)

Thinking the best way to Skaventide is board control with bodies and spells (vortex and warpgale).  WLCs snipe high priority targets and Thanquol melts the hordes.

Edited by CompBiochemInfo

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Yeah, I'm in agreement with mass Clanrats for playstyle. At the very least, 3 basic squads will provide a speed bump or event decent DS bracketing. I wouldn't mind even taking 3 maxed squads for the sheer durability.

 

How do you folks move your rats? My opponents are pretty cool with me just shoving them forward however many inches but then again I don't play comp.

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Many will suggest movement trays, but I really find they do nothing to speed up the game (maybe by like, 5 minutes?) and are generally off the trays by 1st or 2nd turn. moving them up the board is pretty fast with practice. You will want to take a little extra time when really getting them into position for charges, screening, etc.. but again, with practice it's fine.


As for lists... I really cannot decide honestly. I have around 80 converted Gutter Runners, so I would like to use at least 20-40 of them. Thanquol and the Warpseer are auto-includes, as well as a Clawlord, arch-warlock or grey seer (unsure of the bell, however).

Aside from that, 1-2 Cannons, 6-9 Jezzails and the obligatory 80-120 Clanrats make list building difficult... I really don't have room for everything. I would love to try a big unit of 6-8 Rat Ogres with packmaster\Master Moulder, but unsure how to fit them in.

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There's a variety of methods including and not limited too:

1) One by one measure each rat. This can be sped up by using a widget so that you've got several for different standard distances. A widget taking up less space than a tape measure. 

2) Place them on a movement tray and move the tray forward, using the wheeling movement orders from the old fantasy for turning (basically when you turn you keep one corner fixed and pivot around it; measuring the distance of the outer most corner and how far it moves and deduct that from the movement value for the unit). The bonus here is that it lets you move really fast, the downside is that you lose a lot of fine control over their positioning and you're locked into a block formation. This can be good on a more open table and certainly in the first one or two turns where you might have nothing to do save move forward in a general formation. However once you start to get into combat you'll fast find yourself moving rats off the board and moving them apart from the single formation. 

3) There are some curious segmented movement "trays" out there which can be used, a bit like option 2, but giving you more variety of motion. I've not looked too much into them as they seem like a lot of fiddling

4) When general moving move the front "Rank" of rats and then simply slide the others up behind. A bit like a movement tray, but you're far more free to have a wavy front row. Note this can be faster, but you've got to keep an eye on things as its easy to move a few rats further than they should using this method. This is basically being a little casual with option 1. 

 

Note a lot of the time what makes you take longer isn't moving the models its:

1) Not being attentive to the game and your turn. Chatting to your opponent/friends, moving away from the table, drinking/eating etc... Ergo all those little things that you do at the same time which distract you and delay your actions.

2) Decision making. Yep choosing what to move where, in what order and where to move each rat can slow you down a lot. Experience and being attentive both help this resolve itself, but it can take some time before you'll naturally speed up. 

 

Note Tyranid players have been moving gaunts in similar numbers for years in 40K without major issues. So it can be done. It's only new for AoS because in the past Fantasy had neat movement trays that resolved moving big blocks very quickly. 

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BWell I’ll be trying a few things out on Saturday, sadly I won’t be able to use the gnawholes.

For my list I was thinking of taking 2big units of 40Clanrats and 40Stormvermins (since they are finally battleline in a Skaventide army), which will be supported by 2warplfamers.

As for hero’s, I definitely want to at least use 1Clawlord.

and well for the rest, I actually don’t know maybe some more stuff from skyre, maybe I’ll go more into the secret backstabbing arts of clan Eshin or should I dare and solve the mysteries behind the fleshcrafted monsters of clan moulder🤔?

edit: Or ask for pestilential help from clan pestilence?

 

ps: will be a 1500p game.

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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I tend to establish the front row carefully and then just move up the rest in a blob that looks similar to it did before.

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I saw above people wondering about moving large units. The best way to move say 40 clan rats is to have sized magnet movememt trays for about 5 models each. 10 or 20 model.movement trys are to un qeidly to get you around terrain,

 

I used to run a zombie army woth over 200 zombies when the first genrals hand boom dropped. Did aloy of different movement options and settles on the minimal 5 man movement trys. 

 

Something like these for instances are wonderful.  It basicly turns your 40 man units into 8 man easy to move squads. But don't stop you from getting every inch put of your pile in moves. They can stat on this for almost the whole game. 

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52 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Many will suggest movement trays, but I really find they do nothing to speed up the game (maybe by like, 5 minutes?) and are generally off the trays by 1st or 2nd turn. moving them up the board is pretty fast with practice. You will want to take a little extra time when really getting them into position for charges, screening, etc.. but again, with practice it's fine.


As for lists... I really cannot decide honestly. I have around 80 converted Gutter Runners, so I would like to use at least 20-40 of them. Thanquol and the Warpseer are auto-includes, as well as a Clawlord, arch-warlock or grey seer (unsure of the bell, however).

Aside from that, 1-2 Cannons, 6-9 Jezzails and the obligatory 80-120 Clanrats make list building difficult... I really don't have room for everything. I would love to try a big unit of 6-8 Rat Ogres with packmaster\Master Moulder, but unsure how to fit them in.

lol so everything is auto include?

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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

lol so everything is auto include?

Well, no.. Or maybe? 

Nah, in all seriousness the definitive auto includes for me are the Warpseer and Thanquol. Grey Seer on foot or Screaming Bell is up there. Clanrats are required if you go mixed it seems and they really are an amazing unit for objectives or tying things up and can still punch back decently under the right conditions. Outside of that, additional heros really just depends on what you want to support; Clawlord for Verminous, Warlock for Skryre, etc. 

I like to have an answer to everything, so to me that means I need jezzails or WLC's for hero/elite sniping, a solid hammer unit in Stormvermin/Gutter Runners/Rat Ogres, and some deepstriking.. Although with Gnawholes, this is practically received for free now. 

Edited by Gwendar

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So many units and combos I want to try, unfortunately can't fit them all in one list 😆

For auto includes...A big horde of clanrats is still a must, I'm going to be using plenty of wizards in my lists to play with the new spells, Thanquol is looking to be absurdly powerful too with the new warpfire projectors. Not sure how shooting will fare but I will probably bring some anyway. I feel like warpstone sparks on shooty stormfiends could potentially be very good, and warp lightning cannons still seem as strong as ever. Not to mention the Doomwheel!

I'm most looking forward to using the master moulder and 4-8 rat ogres together as my hard hitting hammer unit, although I need to buy more ogres first (only have 3 😥)

 

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How is everyone playing their various packmaster models? I have a bunch of SoD ones I guess I will run as a group of 3 packmasters (find a way to designate one with a thing grabber).  

I ordered the skweel gnawtooth model for my master moulder, because I like the model and needed to differentiate from my packmasters. 

I don't have any of the ones from the plastic combo kit, or any of the other models (thought I had something with a whip but must be in a random box somewhere)

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5 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

How is everyone playing their various packmaster models? I have a bunch of SoD ones I guess I will run as a group of 3 packmasters (find a way to designate one with a thing grabber).  

I ordered the skweel gnawtooth model for my master moulder, because I like the model and needed to differentiate from my packmasters. 

I don't have any of the ones from the plastic combo kit, or any of the other models (thought I had something with a whip but must be in a random box somewhere)

Well it depends.

the question I was asking myself the whole time was, if the packmasters cost 60p or if a unit of 3 cost that amount of points. If it’s the first one, I’ll. probably won’t be using them at all, since a model that is t a hero with a total of 2 wounds that can be sniped very and I mean very easy, is in my eyes not worth 60p.

Ill rather pay 40 more and get the master moulder.

if I can take 3 for 60p, I’d reconsider the other and proabably would be using them in that unit size, since it would give a free rain of control over the wholy within Situation buff for my rat ogres etc.

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13 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

How is everyone playing their various packmaster models? I have a bunch of SoD ones I guess I will run as a group of 3 packmasters (find a way to designate one with a thing grabber).  

I ordered the skweel gnawtooth model for my master moulder, because I like the model and needed to differentiate from my packmasters. 

I don't have any of the ones from the plastic combo kit, or any of the other models (thought I had something with a whip but must be in a random box somewhere)

I plan on using mine alongside rat ogres, but the master moulder seems better overall for only 40 pts more so I'll likely be using packmasters less. Not a big fan of the gnawtooth model, I think it looks a bit derpy especially the wolf rat. I'm going to have 6-9 packmasters since I'll be buying more of the rat ogre kits from GW (ebay has not been kind), so I'm going to turn one of them into a master moulder on a 32mm base with giant rats and other skaven-y bits to make it stand out. 

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59 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

I plan on using mine alongside rat ogres, but the master moulder seems better overall for only 40 pts more so I'll likely be using packmasters less. Not a big fan of the gnawtooth model, I think it looks a bit derpy especially the wolf rat. I'm going to have 6-9 packmasters since I'll be buying more of the rat ogre kits from GW (ebay has not been kind), so I'm going to turn one of them into a master moulder on a 32mm base with giant rats and other skaven-y bits to make it stand out. 

Yeah... I've seen a few sets of the IoBogres pop up on ebay but currently in-between checks. Plan to pick up around 6 more this weekend depending on how people price hike them.

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I can't decide if the quality of the IoB sculpts over the variety box is enough to justify so many duplicates. I already have a few sets of IoB, kind of want to sell some and buy some more variety, but I think i'll play with them for a bit and see if i even like the units in game. 

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I have built recently a small Kill Team unit of genestealer cult using stormvermins heads/lower body and genestealer torsoes/arms.

My "general" has a whip from the genestealer hero, and I just realizedjt could look totally fine as a moulder packmaster... Especially given he has 4 arms :D so one potential way of converting plague monks/IOB packmasters could be with genestealer bits too.

Screenshot_20190213-083234.png.b47cbd6f952f4bbe5d95cd06bf026993.png

 

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I will be testing something like this the saturday after the book drops

 

Clawlord

Warlock Bombardier

Grey Seer

 

2x40 Clanrats

Doomwheel

Warpflamer

Warpflamer

4x Rat Ogors

Vermintide Spell

 

I will probably try some more lists when the book hits, but I love the Doomwhell and hope ist a bit better with the new Edition.

 

I also love the Endless spells, and we do not Play highly competitive so I will not try to max out my lists usually.

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Maier666 said:

I will be testing something like this the saturday after the book drops

 

Clawlord

Warlock Bombardier

Grey Seer

 

2x40 Clanrats

Doomwheel

Warpflamer

Warpflamer

4x Rat Ogors

Vermintide Spell

 

I will probably try some more lists when the book hits, but I love the Doomwhell and hope ist a bit better with the new Edition.

 

I also love the Endless spells, and we do not Play highly competitive so I will not try to max out my lists usually.

 

 

 

 

Good luck there then.

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Been theory hammering some lists out one I came up with is along the lines of:

Thanquol
Warbringer
Warpseer

x3x40 clanrats
x2x40 Plague monks

Pretty simple, plaguemonks I think are gonna be incredibly good this addition, were already good in my opinion now get the +1's to hit and wound, plus the get a 6+ save now which is nice. All for the same points

Warpseer is ace for his command ability and with his command point on a 3+, masterclan spending command points for free on a 5+ and thanquols command ability, should mean have CP's to spare. The 3 heroes can add a bit of punch and a lot of good magic as well.

Gnawholes can be handy but not thinking to much about them yet really as I see them more situational than anything.

Traits and artefacts not sure what to go on yet without seeing the book in person for sure, but liked the sound of the immunity to battleshock wholly within 18" one I heard. Not sure how much I would need it the warpseer but mean the whole army should be immune. If anyone has a list of the traits/artefacts would be good although may have to wait til the book comes out.

An alternative I have come up with includes some plague claw catapults as I was a big fan of the mortars before they have gone on a prolonged leave of absence (I used 4 in my old list). Issue I a finding is the 160pts is a pain to fit in with everything else I want.

Screaming Bell
x2 plague furnace

x2 PCC
x2 x40 plague monks
x3 x40 clanrats

Less magic but do have prayers and some ranged threat. Trait and artefact wise not really sure.

 

Edited by AliKing

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So many fun looking units it’s hard to decide what I want. I think to start with I’ll go with something along the lines of: 

Verminlord Warpseer
Screaming Bell
Warlock Engineer/Bombardier
Clawlord
Plague priest/Claw Lord

40 clanrats
40 clanrats
40 clanrats
40 plague monks

Warp lightning cannon
Warp lightning cannon

Should be a fun list to try although I’m worried there will be some overlap between the Bell and the warpseer battleshock abilities

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5 minutes ago, Xelotath said:

Should be a fun list to try although I’m worried there will be some overlap between the Bell and the warpseer battleshock abilities

doesn't really matter if they overlap, as long as everyone is covered. Also means you can lose one without as much impact.

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16 minutes ago, Xelotath said:

Should be a fun list to try although I’m worried there will be some overlap between the Bell and the warpseer battleshock abilities

Well, the Warpseer is pretty awesome! Alternatively, you could trade it for a Warbringer but imo the more time goes on, the more I'm liking the Warpseer for the extra default command point and battleshock coverage, meaning you can piecemeal your army.

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6 minutes ago, Zuriaxis said:

Well, the Warpseer is pretty awesome! Alternatively, you could trade it for a Warbringer but imo the more time goes on, the more I'm liking the Warpseer for the extra default command point and battleshock coverage, meaning you can piecemeal your army.

That extra point will be massive. Just a shame the verminking doesn’t get one, because he is the true competitor to the warpseer for me. 

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