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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion

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5 hours ago, Num said:

No need for verminlords. Skaven have many good foot heroes (arch warlock, warlords, assassins, deathrunners, plague priests, warlock engineers, grey seers...) that you can build a full army on 25mm bases...

3

besides the point to but wanted to make sure your minis are on the right bases.  Packmaster goes on 25, but Deathrunner, Assasin, Priest, Warlock, Engineer, Warlord and Grey Seer all go on 32mm.  

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:49 AM, Num said:

No need for verminlords. Skaven have many good foot heroes (arch warlock, warlords, assassins, deathrunners, plague priests, warlock engineers, grey seers...) that you can build a full army on 25mm bases...

Need the Verminlord Deceiver!  His power is super good.  I also like the one that summons giant rats with a Command Ability.  That sounds like a really good way to get free bodies, albeit crappy  no save bodies.  I imagine the Skaven will have a good summoning thingie in their hopefully inevitable unified battletome!

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How do you guys feel about assassins? I love the concept, but I not so sure they're worth the 100 points?

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5 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

How do you guys feel about assassins? I love the concept, but I not so sure they're worth the 100 points?

To answer your question:

i haven’t really played him yet, but his ability seems to be very good especially then when you equip him with the d3 damage weapon. Perfect for skating hero’s 

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@Skreech Verminking Yeah, I mean, he's good against heroes. But he doesn't have the "goes first" thing anymore.  He only has 3 attacks, so if you get super lucky, he will do ~6 wounds. I guess that's fine, so long as you only use him to supplement whatever else your attacking the enemy hero with? And the assassin is going to super die to retaliation. So is it worth making him go first, instead of whatever other units you could have chosen, for potentially 6 wounds?

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2 hours ago, gronnelg said:

@Skreech Verminking Yeah, I mean, he's good against heroes. But he doesn't have the "goes first" thing anymore.  He only has 3 attacks, so if you get super lucky, he will do ~6 wounds. I guess that's fine, so long as you only use him to supplement whatever else your attacking the enemy hero with? And the assassin is going to super die to retaliation. So is it worth making him go first, instead of whatever other units you could have chosen, for potentially 6 wounds?

Honestly, I've found them to be far worse without the ability to jump the combat queue anymore, but they left it on the order assassin who was also updated at the same time I believe so that was...nice of them?

I still bring one along in my Eshin lists and have had some success while equipped with SoJ, but other units can do more for around the same price if you don't bring SoJ. If you do use him, you will have to be careful about where you place him within 1" of the accompanying unit (especially when he has SoJ as it will be a high threat target) so that he won't get piled into first and deleted.

Edited by Gwendar

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There was a question asked of what people want from a skaven release, we may have moved on, but just wanted to get my desires out.

All skaven in one book: it makes sense, it tidies up about 4 armies at once, the onky oposition may be peatilance players who dont want a second book, but if it overwrights the first one of theres, adds loads of lore and makes there armies more flexibale i think they would be happy

Re do old mettle/finecast blister pack units: gutter runners, plague censors, skyre globers, skyre jesseals

Do something with wepon teams to make them more functional in play (totel war had then as units, i know its not like fantasy but i could see it working) and make a kit that is a wepons team kit

Make tge grey seer great again: dont care hiw, just do it

Lots of batalion options

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@gronnelg I argue they are still valuable when equipped with an artifact. Vanilla stat line doesn't ever give me confidence to even take down a 5 wound hero but give it Blade of Judgement with its double blade loadout and, well have fun. Here's the thing, its impossible to run right now. A mixed skaven list or even a dedicated non-skryre list should always be using the crown of conquest artifact for battleshock immunity. Using the grand alliance stuff really pigeon-holes skaven players because we can't take a second artifact without battalions. 

The assassin is fun. Dont worry about him not being able to attack first. If you tactically place him at say 4+'' inches away from a hero about to pile-in, you're safe when they activate. Then the enemy unit now puts the assassin in combat so you can pile in afterwards. Take advantage of the chaff unit they pop out of by letting clanrats or others to die off in front of the assassin giving you the free lane to pile in. Hopefully that makes sense. 

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5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@gronnelg I argue they are still valuable when equipped with an artifact. Vanilla stat line doesn't ever give me confidence to even take down a 5 wound hero but give it Blade of Judgement with its double blade loadout and, well have fun. Here's the thing, its impossible to run right now. A mixed skaven list or even a dedicated non-skryre list should always be using the crown of conquest artifact for battleshock immunity. Using the grand alliance stuff really pigeon-holes skaven players because we can't take a second artifact without battalions. 

Sadly this is true, and one of the reason I’m hoping that the battletome will be containing all of the skaven clans.

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Hello - Squeek Squeek -

Starting 500 pt escalation league -

What would *you* bring in your list?

Requirements-

Min 1  Character (General)

Min 1 Battleline 

1 2 3 Go!

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As many clanrats as possible (80, 1warlord)

jokes aside.

anithing that seems to fit your taste is the best way in starting a skaven armie.

12 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Hello - Squeek Squeek -

Starting 500 pt escalation league -

What would *you* bring in your list?

Requirements-

Min 1  Character (General)

Min 1 Battleline 

1 2 3 Go!

 

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Not worried about my comfort - I have a ton of models from WHFB -

So 1 vote for Warlord with 2x units of clanrats

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29 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Not worried about my comfort - I have a ton of models from WHFB -

So 1 vote for Warlord with 2x units of clanrats

THIS!


Seems to instantly go for some crucial essentials useful in almost any Skaven list.

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@Skreech Verminking Now that I think about it, I've never tried a Skryre/Eshin list and I don't need any skryre battalions per say. I could just run low count elite units  and have fun with a artifact equipped assassin. A Deceiver skitterleaping an assassin or arch-warlock sounds fun and low investment. 

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I trying to get into AoS and my friend is generous enough to offer me his 1000pt for £40 but I wanted to know a few things first.

He said they are from Fantasy and are a mix of Clan Verminus and Clan Skyre and consists of a "vermin Lord boosting 2 stormvermin units, one arch warlock engineer, 3 stormfiends and one doomwheel."

Will these work well in AoS? Or should I get something a little more current?

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3 minutes ago, Orchid89 said:

I trying to get into AoS and my friend is generous enough to offer me his 1000pt for £40 but I wanted to know a few things first.

He said they are from Fantasy and are a mix of Clan Verminus and Clan Skyre and consists of a "vermin Lord boosting 2 stormvermin units, one arch warlock engineer, 3 stormfiends and one doomwheel."

Will these work well in AoS? Or should I get something a little more current?

A good choice.
And a good price I'd take it.
With this you can expand with the upcoming Skyre set and go Skyre themed.
The Stormvermin are awesome for a more generic route too.
So yeah can't go wrong with this.

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so what does the competitive mixed skaven list look like these days? I was messing around and made this but not sure how effective it would be. I have all the models for it is all.

Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror (220)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
Warpgnaw Verminlord (320)
Thanquol and Boneripper (400)

40 x Clanrats (200)
40 x Clanrats (200)
20 x Clanrats (120)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)

TOTAL: 1980/2000

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13 minutes ago, Major said:

so what does the competitive mixed skaven list look like these days? I was messing around and made this but not sure how effective it would be. I have all the models for it is all.

Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror (220)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
Warpgnaw Verminlord (320)
Thanquol and Boneripper (400)

40 x Clanrats (200)
40 x Clanrats (200)
20 x Clanrats (120)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)

TOTAL: 1980/2000

You'll find the mortars to be pretty hit or miss...mostly miss. It might be better to take 20 more Clanrats to bump that small unit to 40 and have an extra CP.

Granted, if that's all you have then that's still good. I would proxy the mortars as Warpfire Throwers if your opponent is ok with that. That way you can run them behind the Clanrat blobs for easy MW's.

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24 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

You'll find the mortars to be pretty hit or miss...mostly miss. It might be better to take 20 more Clanrats to bump that small unit to 40 and have an extra CP.

Granted, if that's all you have then that's still good. I would proxy the mortars as Warpfire Throwers if your opponent is ok with that. That way you can run them behind the Clanrat blobs for easy MW's.

I do have the Warpfire Throwers so switching the 2 mortars out for 2 of them takes me to exactly 2000 points. Honestly, the 20 clanrats are there just to give the Warlock Engineer the Look Out Sir benefit.

I am not sure who to put as General but I had the idea that the Verminlord Deceiver would be used to pop around the tabled with either Thanquol and Boneripper or the Warpgnaw Verminlord and double team stuff in the backline while the Warlord on Broodhorror and whichever one isn't with the Deceiver are used to push up the front and be a constant threat to the enemies frontline. I do have a mixture of other stuff but I just don't know how to put an effective mixed skaven list together.

I also have:

3 Plagueclaw Catapults
1 Warp lightning Cannon
Rattling guns
some storm vermin
Screaming bell
Plague Furnace

 

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@Major Honestly, as long as your Warlord is rocking Crown of Conquest you should be fine to throw general on whoever. That said, I would still make the Warlord general to get Great Destroyer to hopefully get a little more damage out of your Clanrats.

The core of any Skaven list (especially mixed) is going to be Clanrats. After that, it's best to have some Hammers for your Anvils, which Stormfiends and Stormvermin do pretty well. After that, I like to take a minimum of 2 Warp-lightning cannons since 1 seldom feels like enough to get some MW output on key characters since WLC's don't care about Look out, sir. With your list proposal, you're mostly just betting on the Verminlords + Thanquol to be your hammers and they can achieve that if all goes well.

I would advise to stay away from the Catapults as mortars are honestly better in the end. I've never had any luck with ratling guns, but some people swear by them...I would rather have Warpfire for the MW's.

Edited by Gwendar
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1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

@Major Honestly, as long as your Warlord is rocking Crown of Conquest you should be fine to throw general on whoever. That said, I would still make the Warlord general to get Great Destroyer to hopefully get a little more damage out of your Clanrats.

The core of any Skaven list (especially mixed) is going to be Clanrats. After that, it's best to have some Hammers for your Anvils, which Stormfiends and Stormvermin do pretty well. After that, I like to take a minimum of 2 Warp-lightning cannons since 1 seldom feels like enough to get some MW output on key characters since WLC's don't care about Look out, sir. With your list proposal, you're mostly just betting on the Verminlords + Thanquol to be your hammers and they can achieve that if all goes well.

I would advise to stay away from the Catapults as mortars are honestly better in the end. I've never had any luck with ratling guns, but some people swear by them...I would rather have Warpfire for the MW's.

Thats great advice! I wish I had two Warplightning Cannons alas I have but 1. I do agree that 2 feel better to me. So Stormfiends? How could I smash a unit of 3 of those bad boys in here? I also hear bad things about the warlord on broodhorror but have never seen it on the table. I would just hate to never use all these big hero models I have.

I have 2 rattling guns, 2 mortars, two grinders, 2 flame throwers so could mix it up.

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7 hours ago, Darthvegeta8 said:

A good choice.
And a good price I'd take it.
With this you can expand with the upcoming Skyre set and go Skyre themed.
The Stormvermin are awesome for a more generic route too.
So yeah can't go wrong with this.

Thanks, do you think the current "Start collecting" kit would be useful to add to this? 

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@Orchid89 Personally, I'd take it just for the stormvermin. Clan verminous holds a dear place in the hearts of skaven minded playtesters and rules writers at GW because they've been there since warhammer fantasy. I'm willing to invest now while the horde units of the non-supported clans  are "cheap" because I bet if a new book ever comes out to support them with rules, clan verminous will be a lot of fun. 

I'm unsure about the Start Collecting you're referring to, other than the Pestilens one. They're most certainly good bang for your buck if those units are interesting to you. In addition, if you play casually, the unit of plague monks from the Pestilens are a great number of bodies to proxy for any other horde unit you want to play around with. 

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2 hours ago, Orchid89 said:

Thanks, do you think the current "Start collecting" kit would be useful to add to this? 

With what you'd have? No.
After you get all that, add Skyre units or large blocks of 40 man Clanrat units.

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4 hours ago, Major said:

Thats great advice! I wish I had two Warplightning Cannons alas I have but 1. I do agree that 2 feel better to me. So Stormfiends? How could I smash a unit of 3 of those bad boys in here? I also hear bad things about the warlord on broodhorror but have never seen it on the table. I would just hate to never use all these big hero models I have.

I have 2 rattling guns, 2 mortars, two grinders, 2 flame throwers so could mix it up.

I agree that the mortars are disappointing, even more so with look out sir. Sometimes I run 8 to achieve some consistent results, but even then cannons seem better...

The 2 warpfire throwers instead look neat.

If you could get your hands on an arch warlock, it could be great fun as well! It would make 6 heroes in your list, what an elite army! You can skitterleap the arch warlock as well, and thanquol would be able to cast its spell too. But then that would also make way too many spells to cast... (6 or 7 per turn) and no endless ones.

Warp grinder could be fun to pop clanrats on the battlefield,but I'm not convinced.

Instead of trying to squeeze stormfiends in as an hammer, you could also put 10 stormvermins (140pts). They get their bonus for outnumbering enemies. So a unit of 10 could massacre heroes and small units, especially with the warlord buff. With Thanquol's buff theyll be fearsome.

Cheers

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