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AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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5 minutes ago, michu said:

@Kramer All of those "Add +1 when 20 or more" are now in the Skaven Allegiance, so no wonder they're no longer on warscrolls. Nothin was lost.

Ahh that makes more sense now

 

8 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Hmmm, looked at the warhammer age of sigmar app. Maybe it's in the allegiance abilities but there is a lot of flavour gone. With the bully rule for the stormvermin as an highlight. No more improved characteristic for being with more. No more different weapon load outs for warlords. Warpgnaw verminlord is now a two cast wizard who can hide himself in a warphole during set up. Was really hoping him to improve the abilities of the warphole, so that's my own expectation management. But still. 

Some things have improved drastically in my mind. Spell from the Grey seer is really cool but bit close range. Rol 2D6, if it's higher than a unit's wounds characterisic do D3 MW + -1 to hit in melee until your hero phase. The warpstone tokens is very thematic as well. Master Moulder can command ability a destroyed unit back on a 5+. Which is very cool take on the endless monstrosities of Moulder in my mind. 

All 'self destruct' abilities have become more deadly. Overpower the halberd on a Arch warlock for D6 damage you risk doing D6 MW to yourself. 

All the scrolls look more sleek but I hope the allegiance abilities do a it more to make it feel Skaven. 

Im liking how the Warpgnaw is looking. All of the Verminlords are looking good now actually. Still wouldnt touch the Corruptor though...cuz Nurgle is yucks

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8 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Warpgnaw hasn't actually changed thaaaaat much... I think? I swear he used to be able to bring a unit with him, am I imagining that?

I think it was just him. Did he always have 2 spell casts? His signature spell is great for taking out banners and such

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14 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Stormfiends can't be one weapon spammed!!!! what???? What a mess! You can't build the army the way you want....phhhhh

 

Haha as someone who plays KO as well... welcome to my world ;) But if you call it 'spammed' it's probably a good thing. I do think it's mostly GW wanting to match their sprues to the warscroll. 

@michu Thanks! Yeah, I found it. Indeed it's in the allegiance abilities. Great for the rules being clear and well placed, still a bit of me is already missing the aptly named ability on the warscroll for the stormvermin. Still makes great sense. 

Also saw the biggest change by GW... rolling a 13 on the great bell doesn't auto win you the game!!!

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So, there were several models that used to count as a packmaster.  Now the packmaster is not a hero anymore and a new warscroll exists for "master moulder".  Which sculpts do you think count as master moulder and which as packmaster?  Particularly the SoD model

Master moulder - has warpstone tipped Lash or thing catcher

Packmaster - herding whip and rusty blade. 1 in 3 can have a thing catcher.  I think this is just to match the rat ogors box. 

 

Also, poison wind weapon team is officially out. They were the only warscroll left behind in previous "skaven" faction on app.  Bummer. Cool model. Will have to try to find a use for it. 

 

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8 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

Also, poison wind weapon team is officially out. They were the only warscroll left behind in previous "skaven" faction on app.  Bummer. Cool model. Will have to try to find a use for it. 

 

I had plenty of mortars... I initially divided them in two and based them on 25mm to use as acolytes. I guess I'll continue to use them as acolytes then. I also converted one into a warp grinder.

IMG_20190209_123319.jpg.0f2dabcfa56e363e8d3c7ed7a328d2d2.jpg

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Just now, Num said:

I had plenty of mortars... I initially divided them in two and based them on 25mm to use as acolytes. I guess I'll continue to use them as acolytes then. I also converted one into a warp grinder.

IMG_20190209_123319.jpg.0f2dabcfa56e363e8d3c7ed7a328d2d2.jpg

Great idea on the acolytes! I think I may be one short but I bet people are gonna be dumping some on eBay soon. 

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I just realised why I’m stuck on not liking the outnumbering rule from stormvermin as a allegiance ability. Now it doesn’t work in Skirmish! Easy fix of course but it’s been driving me mad. The rule is better, placing is more streamlined, it’s just that Skaven are my go to baddies in a Skirmish campaign. 

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Well this is interesting. A lot of changes and new things to take in. I don't think skaven will be any weaker they'll just be playing a lot differently than we're used to with different units and strategies. 

I was right in my assumption that clanrats and stormvermin lost their unit size bonuses in exchange for the new allegiance ability, nothing was really lost though since they're basically the same thing. Clanshields are better now!

Doomwheel looks like it'll actually be really good as a shooting unit now that ratling guns have had their range significantly decreased, and doomwheel has the new overcharge on shooting. Ratlings got nerfed which is unfortunate.

Screaming Bell and Grey Seer are even more fantastic support models now

Everything moulder looks great. Verminlords are great

I really dislike the stormfiend changes, they nerfed pretty much every single combo and good weapons on them without buffing the rest. Warpfire weapons (thanquol and weapon team too) are now only going to be decent against hordes, they're basically the old grey seer spell. Shock gauntlets can no longer have their hit chance buffed up. Seems like ratling cannons and doomflayers/shocks with the skryre damage buff allegiance ability is going to be the best loadout now.

Still don't like the warp lightning spell nerfs, shame the warlock engineer got hit with it too. I just don't see the engineer units being that strong at all anymore, they're just gonna be tools used to interact with some of the skryre warscrolls and abilities that require them.   I honestly think skaven might struggle a bit more against more elite armies now that they aren't shooting out so many MW.

Edited by Skavelynn
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From the GMG review (sorry only noted down my stuff) but you can watch it here: 

 

 

Warp Lightning 180
Warplock 3 to 12 = 140
Clanrats 20-40 120- 200 BL
Doomwheel 160
Arch warlock 160
Clawlord 100
Death master 100
Grey Seer 120
Master Moulder 100
Skritch and friends 140
Bombadier 100
Warlock 100
Screaming bell 200
Thanquol 400
Deciever 300
Warbringer 260
Warseer 260
giant rats 10 to 40 60 to 200  Battleline moulder (but whole army that clan)
Gutrunner 5 to 20 60-200 BL Eshin (but whole army that clan)
Nightrunners 10 to 40 80 to 280 BL Eshin (but whole army that clan)
Packmasters 3 60
Ratogers 2 to 8 100  (i think also Battleline moulder (but whole army that clan))
Rat swarms 2 to 8 60 (i think also Battleline moulder (but whole army that clan)) 
Ratling gun 80
Stormvermin 10 to 40 140 to 500 Battleline in Skaventide
Warpfire 70 

 

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30 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Packmasters 3 60

I missed that one, that's going to be really fun to play with, 3 for 60 pts is super good. I think packmasters and wizards are going to be the core of the new skaven, spamming out the new spells every where and buffing your stormfiends and moulder beasties. Ratling cannon/doomflayer stormfiend + skryre damage buff + packmaster buff should be pretty strong. Overall I think everything looks pretty good besides the few changes I mentioned previously

Edited by Skavelynn
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10 minutes ago, Skavelynn said:

I missed that one, that's going to be really fun to play with, 3 for 60 pts is super good. I think packmasters and wizards are going to be the core of the new skaven, spamming out the new spells every where and buffing your stormfiends and moulder beasties. Ratling cannon/doomflayer stormfiend + skryre damage buff + packmaster buff should be pretty strong. Overall I think everything looks pretty good besides the few changes I mentioned previously

I think that’s what he said anyway. But to be sure,  you saw the difference between packmaster (unit) and master moulded (hero)?

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After having looked at some of the reviews/warscrolls/other stuff I have to say that my feelings towards this skaven release are probably more mixed than any other release in the history of aos. 

Let's start with the good stuff:

1. Rules-wise I feel this release is incredibly. They managed to fix/change/improve almost every issue I had with old skaven rules while still maintaining the faction identity with Skavens' self destructive ways. There are tons of useful warscrolls and ways to build this army.

2. Gnaw holes look cool and they help with some of the mobility issues this army used to have. Endless spells are also cool addition.

3. I think it's safe to say that skaven will be very competetive after this release, the amount of new synergies/powerups/etc. Is quite good and with almost no point cost changes.

4. No summoning mechanics (minus screaming bell and such). I don't mind summoning but not every army should have it and I'm glad skaven didn't get it either.

5. It's good to get new expanded lore for skaven.

And then the bad stuff...

1. No new models (apart from that 1 warlock). 'nuff said.

2. Special Battlelines limited to their factions was the stupidest thing GW could've ever done. Thanks to that, playing skyre, moulder, eshin or pestilens force have way less options than before. You can't even ally nurgle as pestilens as then your army stops being pure pestilens. Book with 40 warscrolls yet these armies are limited to 4-10 or something like that... brilliant...

3. Speaking of universal battlelines... only clanrats and stormvermin... like couldn't they at least make skyre acolytes battleline if skyre hero is general and giant rats for moulder if master moulder is hero etc. What's even worse is that both of these battleline options are horde centric units, so if you want to maximise their potential, you need to spend a lot of points.

4. Battalions seemed mostly terribly and why on earth did they bring skyre enginecovens back? They could have split those enginecovens to separate much better mini battalions. What on earth went through their heads...

5. Some potentially broken stuff. Just look at plague monks: they get bonus to hit and wound when their unit is big enough. They get +1 attack on all weapons (staffs too) on both charge and prayer. They get full wound rerolls on prayer and corruptor command gives them full hit rerolls. Then you add banner that causes wound rolls of 6 to do 2 damage per hit. And they now have 6+ sv and don't have to worry about bshock (thanks to new furnace aura). Does that sound balanced to you at 70p/240p. They were never bad to begin with, it was the army surrounding them that was meh. Now the surrounding army is better and these guys have basically become new better cheaper witch aelves.

So yeah, like I said, mixed feelings. I personally hope that people would make some noise regarding to those battleline options. I so want gw to loosen up those restrictions a bit (it should min. 70% army that is pure skyre, pestilens, whatever to unlock those battlelines.)

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3 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I think that’s what he said anyway. But to be sure,  you saw the difference between packmaster (unit) and master moulded (hero)?

I did! Both packmasters and master moulders look very good. I'm super excited for moulder, everything they got in the tome looks fantastic and fun to play. I also really like the changes to the doomwheel.

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The battleline thing is absolutely baffling. I would love some insight into that boneheaded decision. It's such an open goal! Especially as they showed how to do it right with Gloomspite!

Could Master Moulders always heal? I never paid much attention to Clan Moulder, but keeping one (or two) of them near a unit of Stormfiends could be very handy.

Edited by Kirjava13
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3 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Stormfiends still have the CLANS MOULDER keyword, but the wording of the Packmaster and Master Moulders abilities are not 100% clear to me wrt whether they would affect Stormfiends. Any ideas?

Master Moulders can heal Moulder Pack units, which the stormfiends are not ;)

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5 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Stormfiends are no longer affected by packmasters. Unless I missed a keyword

Ouch, I think you're correct. Packmasters and master moulders only effect "Clans Moulder Pack" units. Looking at other moulder units, they have Clans Moulder, AND the Pack keyword. Stormfiends only have Clans Moulder, no Pack. Not sure if this is just poor wording, or if they have to have the Pack keyword to gain the buffs. That's unfortunate...Looks like stormfiends may not be as useful as I expected anymore if this is true

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