gronnelg Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 On 1/12/2019 at 4:55 AM, Riff_Raff_Rascal said: @gronnelg I argue they are still valuable when equipped with an artifact. Vanilla stat line doesn't ever give me confidence to even take down a 5 wound hero but give it Blade of Judgement with its double blade loadout and, well have fun. Here's the thing, its impossible to run right now. A mixed skaven list or even a dedicated non-skryre list should always be using the crown of conquest artifact for battleshock immunity. Using the grand alliance stuff really pigeon-holes skaven players because we can't take a second artifact without battalions. The assassin is fun. Dont worry about him not being able to attack first. If you tactically place him at say 4+'' inches away from a hero about to pile-in, you're safe when they activate. Then the enemy unit now puts the assassin in combat so you can pile in afterwards. Take advantage of the chaff unit they pop out of by letting clanrats or others to die off in front of the assassin giving you the free lane to pile in. Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks for your feedback. If you place the assassin outside of 4 inches, he's out of combat though, right? So your opponent is free to ignore him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronnelg Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 If I put an arch-warlock on a balewind vortex, and place them on terrain, he gets +2 to his 3+ save, right? But he can't be brought to a 1+ save, right? Will a rend of -1 bring him up to 2+ or a 3+ though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Major said: Thats great advice! I wish I had two Warplightning Cannons alas I have but 1. I do agree that 2 feel better to me. So Stormfiends? How could I smash a unit of 3 of those bad boys in here? I also hear bad things about the warlord on broodhorror but have never seen it on the table. I would just hate to never use all these big hero models I have. I have 2 rattling guns, 2 mortars, two grinders, 2 flame throwers so could mix it up. You really couldn't fit the fiends in unless you dropped some heroes, so I would agree with what Num said about trying out 10 Stormvermin if you have them. While they're better in units of 20+, 10 can still get the job done if you stick to hero\elite unit hunting as suggested. If not, I would still give 2 Warpfire + 20 more Clanrats (for 3x40) a shot. You could even throw shackles in for the remaining points to tie down a unit.@gronnelg You should still count him as always having a 3+ save due to the way re-rolls\modifiers work. IE: When you roll saves, modifiers come into play so he technically has a 3+ and getting hit with -1 takes him to 4+ which is then reduced to 2+ due to the Balewind + Terrain modifiers. I guess if you look at it another way, you could say he has a 1+, but since 1's always fail (before modifiers) he would effectively have a 2+ save before rend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 @gronnelgImagine a scenario where a hero charges your wall of clanrats, they have to end the charge within 0.5'' of your line. Also note that the hero will most likely have no more than a 2'' inch reach. At top of combat, you pop the assassin. Now you're worried about being ignored altogether. If you place him between 2.5'' and 3'' inches away, behind your wall and following the rest of his deployment rules, the magic happens. Pile-in rules dictate that models must move towards the closest enemy model, i.e. one of your clanrats. Unless you're opponent has really ****** measurement tendencies, they'll likely not move much at all or just rotate around that clanrat slightly. Point being they didn't move more than 0.5''. The end result is an enemy hero outside of melee range of you're assassin while the assassin still being within 3'' thus engaged in combat. After the hero attacks, you can choose clanrats to die in such a way that you have a direct pile-in lane for your activation. In addition, clanrats have bases that allow for 1'' reach across them if you measure correctly so your assassin can just attack from the second row. WARNING: when removing clanrats, be wary of the rule concerning unit cohesion. Splitting a unit is generally bad. Note: when I first mention the strategy, I mentioned 4'' right? That has more to do with how I use clanrats. That takes a lot more explanation. My bad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Hello everybody I'm trying to get revenge on the Nightnaut army that annihilated me in a previous 1k game. At this defeat, I played 9 stormfiends and a warlock engineer. I got wiped because of a lack of screen... And also Nightnaut ignoring rend hurts. This time I'm considering: List 1 Quote Allegiance: ChaosSkaven Warlord (100)- Shield & Warpforged Blade- Artefact: Crown of ConquestPlague Priest with Plague Censer (80)Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)- General- Trait: Lord of War40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear3 x Stormfiends (290)Total: 950 / 1000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 113 What do you guys think? I thought of throwing clanrats at the nightnaut for saturation (and they haven't got any rend anyway). Stormfiends with warpfire do their stuff from behind. Plague priests improve the clanrats attacks. I'm open to any suggestion... I also considered a Chaos Sorcerer Lord instead of the two plague priests to have a chance at dispelling. Or an Arch-Warlock... I also considered list 2 (moulder) Allegiance: Moulder Packmaster (60) - General - Shock-Prod - Trait: Lord of War - Artefact: Crown of Conquest Screaming Bell (200) - Allies 40 x Giant Rats (200) 40 x Giant Rats (200) 3 x Stormfiends (290) Total: 950 / 1000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 200 / 200 Wounds: 113 Stormfiends either with warpfire or shock gauntlets Edited January 15, 2019 by Num Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The first one looks really great. love the idea of buffing up your clanrats with the two plague priests and the warlord. Also did your foe-thing use a lot of heavy elite units or more chainrasp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 He uses Bladegheist mostly, along with Knight of Shrouds and Lady Olinder. If I remember correctly, the rest is battleline tax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Well then, both of your armie list seem to have the punch to kill dead-things (burn-slay the ghosts!!!) although i like your first build more, since it has a great option of hero’s who can support you clanrats very well. your second moulder only list isn’t bad either, although you won’t have to many units to support your units if giant rats. also the screaming bell is very random and it’s buffs are 10 out of 12 useless. (So sad that it isn’t what it ones was 😭😭😭). Both lists are great just with the first one you have a better chance in keeping that crown. (Warlord with shield. 3+ save against 1damage attacks and 5wounds instead of 6+ save and 3wounds) but that’s just my oppinion. still both list should be able to do some great damage against this heretical dead-things who worship the wrong deity. all hail to the great horned rat! Edited January 15, 2019 by Skreech Verminking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I played a rather fun list with not 'vun but TWO screaming bells, hwah hwah hwah. The spice was throwing in a Kairos Fateweaver. Now just based on that, I hope someone is clever enough to see what shenanigans are happening. If you're still stuck here's, the two warscrolls: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-kairos-fateweaver-en.pdf https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//aos-warscroll-screaming-bell-EN.pdf The rest of the list was pure skaven magic with 2 Greyseers, Arch-warlock, Warlock Engineer and some clanrats. Theres like 400 points I'll play around with to add some much needed punch but I want to highlight how much fun Greyseers are with the realm/endless spells when they can re-roll casts and get on top of a balewind vortex a lot easier than the archwarlock. I lost the game to objective points but a fun game none-the-less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 @Riff_Raff_Rascal Wasn't there some debate (and I thought an FAQ, but I think I'm imagining that) about Kairos not being able to change it to a 13 since that is impossible to do with a d6? I think the issue was that a single dice roll can have only 6 results so you could never change d6 to anything higher.. there was some implication that since it refers to a dice roll, it meant any other result of a d6. I mean, the 13 on the Bell is ridiculous and obviously intended for a joke..but man, I would love to do it one game just to see the look on opponents faces. I actually really do love the idea of a magic heavy list. Here's to hoping that our spell-lores in the book are going to have options to properly put Skaven up there with Tzeentch\Death levels of spellcasting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 @Riff_Raff_Rascal is Kairos there to cast Verminlords whenever a Bell has a 6 on a roll then? Besides the "roll 13" joke, casting a verminlord seems value enough to me... I hope you converted your Kairos into some giant bird rat / bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) @Num Oh hey....I forgot about that. Yeah, that sounds better than betting on a gimmick 13. I like it @Riff_Raff_Rascal, would love a batrep on it next time you play it. Edited January 16, 2019 by Gwendar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 @Gwendar If I'm being cheeky in a casual game that I'm not gonna be able to finish (such as the game store closing in a few minutes), I'll roll my D6 that has 2-7 on it. My friends just roll their eyes and I get nothing more than a moral victory. My satisfaction comes from my friends rolling their eyes, not so much the dice roll. @Num Yes-yes. While it is a steep entry cost, the list ultimately is all about summoning. As it stands, the list lacks mobility and has shoe string chaff, but by also deploying a Verminlord Warpseer, I'll have extra summoning to play with from the get go (also I needed a command point outlet). The great thing about this summoning is that there are 6 verminlords to choose from for any situation not to mention that its wholly within 24'' summon range. I very much like an excuse to summon, Lord Skreech since I'd never pay for him normally, his spell is a great mortal wound output, the Bell puts him in range of the spell, and coolest of all the Fateweaver can cast his spell for him (8 to cast), and The Dreaded 13th spell also summons more chaff. Its very flexible. Side note: I've got so much disappointment from screaming bells it hurts, I've played them in almost every casual game over the last few months and I just don't have FUN with them. Even if I skitterleap a screaming bell at an enemy behind chaff, intending to do mortal wounds, the 4+ proc just sucks the wind out of the ability (if you're lucky enough to get the right rolls). And then when I play verminous, I can't roll a 7 for the life of me for that extra attack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riff_Raff_Rascal Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I have a BatRep from today's game. Mixed Chaos vs. Beasts of Chaos (Gavespawn), duked it out in the realm of Hysh. Blood and Glory people. Here was my list. Screaming Bell (200) Screaming Bell (200) Thanquol and Boneripper (400) - Warpfire Braziers Grey Seer (100) Arch Warlock (140) Kairos Fateweaver (380) -general 40 x Clanrats (200) 20 x Clanrats (120) 20 x Clanrats (120) ENDLESS SPELLS Prismatic Palisade (30) Balewind Vortex (40) Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Soulsnare Shackles (20) I went first to throw up shackles and palisade. The first bell tolls with a 6, hot diggity. Summoned Lord Skreech Verminking right in my opponents face. My clanrats failed to run fast enough to chaff the oncoming charge next turn but Lord Skreech did just fine against a pack of ungor. All of my damage dealing spells failed. Failed. Let me repeat, they failed. Hmm. Not the best start. But I put a Archwarlock on top of a Balewind on top of an objective, which is nice. Turn two, things go south when my utility spells go off but lacking in damage spells. Vermintide hit a 30 block of bestigor for 10 MWs. Nice. Two turns now I couldn't use a realm spell to halve damage and then use Cracks Call for spice. Sad. Meanwhile Archwarlock holding down the fort by himself against a Chimera and Chariots. My rat boy rolled an Unbridled Malice proc, then proceeded to craw crunch that Chimera down its monster chart after surviving a -3 rend attack. Turn 3, autoloss due to scenario rules. Things I learned: Unique, powerful spells such as Cracks Call, Dreaded Thirteenth spell, Warpstorm should be done by Kairos Fateweaver. Recommend summoning verminlord closer to the pack to do so. Thanquol worked well as a front line monster so long as he's behind a single row of clanrats to reach over. Balewind and Geminids are fun but not necessary as I need to create chaff and obstacles for bottle-necking large armies. Magic is my damage dealer and it may fail. Recommend either some shooting (lightning cannon) or a proper hammer unit such as stormfiends. Screaming Bells are still worthless. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gronnelg Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 It's so sad that the Screaming Bell is so bad. To me it's the most iconic Skaven warmachine, and thematically just so so cool! I love the idea of swarms of Skaven rushing forward, pushing the war altar forward, getting ever bolder and more frenzied by the bells clamor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 So instead of the verminking, why not a warpseer. His command ability would have been fun just summoning in giant rats all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Num Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 So I lost against nighthaunt again... My list was 80 clanrats, 2 plague priests, skritch spiteclaw, 3 warpfire stormfiends (1000pts). The scenario was star strike. I placed the stormfiends within a unit of 40 clanrats for protection. He placed his Bladegheist and knight of shroud outside the battlefield. First round: he won priority but let me begin. I do nothing. He marches slightly. His Bladegheists pop next to my army, but fail their charge. Second round: I win priority. Gnash-gnash the clanrats, Plague Tome on the Bladegheist, but failed wither. I charge! 73 attacks from the clanrats, and 40 succeed! Unfortunately, he is left with one Bladegheist... His turn, 3 Bladegheist come back. The rest of the army approaches. Lady Olinder and Knight of Shroud arrive and wipe Skritch plus 22 clanrats (the rest flees). He controls and objevlctive and earns 2 points. Third turn: one new objective pop on his side, and another on my side. He wins priority and camps on two objectives. I charge with the clanrats and plague priest and kill two specters... He kills 8 clanrats and the plague priest. He now has 8 victory points, and I have 3. We then both agreed that I had no chance of winning. Even if I hypothetically managed to steal an objective, I would still be behind in points. I honestly don't know what to think of this battle. I think I did the best I could. Nearly wiping the Bladegheist with the clanrats pumped me. But then the power of his army (resurrection, strong heroes...) came back at me. Do you have any advice on how my Skaven could finally take revenge at their Nighthaunt archenemies? I am left with no idea on how to design a list to beat them at 1k... What about warp-lightning cannons and chaff? 6 stormfiends and chaff? Or else? I don't own any Pestilens unfortunately. Cheers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) @Num I can't say that it will be as successful for you as it has been for me (since no-one around here really plays Death armies anymore...) but my 1k Skryre list has done well using 1 WLC, Arch-warlock + Engineer, 3 Warpfire Fiends, 40 Clanrats and 5 Acolytes as battleline tax. This really is all about MW's, which Nighthaunt absolutely hates.. Olynder in particular as she only has 7 wounds and is quite the glass cannon. Maybe you could try something like this:Allegiance: ChaosArch Warlock (140)Skaven Warlord (100)- Warpforged Blade40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty Spear40 x Clanrats (200)- Rusty SpearWarp Lightning Cannon (180)Warp Lightning Cannon (180)Total: 1000 / 1000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 103 Of course, you could drop a cannon in favor of something else (2 Warpfire-throwers inside a Clanrat unit?) but I would still keep the Arch-Warlock for his tankiness, the ability to unbind a key spell, and his unique spell which is great for chip damage across units. You would even have 40 points leftover by removing a cannon and adding 2 Warpfire Throwers to throw him on a BW. Without Heroes, Nighthaunt starts to go downhill pretty quick like other Death armies and you seemed to do well enough buffing the Clanrat attacks to neuter the Gheists before they could do much of anything. Anyway, that would be my route; add in more ranged output to take out the heroes as Warpfire projectors\throwers tend to never be in range unless your opponent is throwing his squishy spellcasters into that short range. Edited January 17, 2019 by Gwendar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Num said: So I lost against nighthaunt again... My list was 80 clanrats, 2 plague priests, skritch spiteclaw, 3 warpfire stormfiends (1000pts). The scenario was star strike. I placed the stormfiends within a unit of 40 clanrats for protection. He placed his Bladegheist and knight of shroud outside the battlefield. First round: he won priority but let me begin. I do nothing. He marches slightly. His Bladegheists pop next to my army, but fail their charge. Second round: I win priority. Gnash-gnash the clanrats, Plague Tome on the Bladegheist, but failed wither. I charge! 73 attacks from the clanrats, and 40 succeed! Unfortunately, he is left with one Bladegheist... His turn, 3 Bladegheist come back. The rest of the army approaches. Lady Olinder and Knight of Shroud arrive and wipe Skritch plus 22 clanrats (the rest flees). He controls and objevlctive and earns 2 points. Third turn: one new objective pop on his side, and another on my side. He wins priority and camps on two objectives. I charge with the clanrats and plague priest and kill two specters... He kills 8 clanrats and the plague priest. He now has 8 victory points, and I have 3. We then both agreed that I had no chance of winning. Even if I hypothetically managed to steal an objective, I would still be behind in points. I honestly don't know what to think of this battle. I think I did the best I could. Nearly wiping the Bladegheist with the clanrats pumped me. But then the power of his army (resurrection, strong heroes...) came back at me. Do you have any advice on how my Skaven could finally take revenge at their Nighthaunt archenemies? I am left with no idea on how to design a list to beat them at 1k... What about warp-lightning cannons and chaff? 6 stormfiends and chaff? Or else? I don't own any Pestilens unfortunately. Cheers For a very interesting combo, you could use the gnash gnaws on their bones from skritch spiteclaw multiple time on the same units, since he doesn’t have the restriction, the Skaven Warlord has. so Banking some commandpoint for such an approach may be worth it. edit:ps: also great battlereport there👍🏻 Edited January 18, 2019 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Also warlord on the brood horror doesn't have it either, which is odd since all the abilities have the same name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Gdead909 said: Also warlord on the brood horror doesn't have it either, which is odd since all the abilities have the same name It’s definitely odd. Well there could be 2reason for though. maybe they wanted to give us skaven players, a reason to use spiteclaw (who costs 50p more than the normal warlord) or the warlord on brood horror. Although it could also just be Gw laziness, not caring if there are any other models (which already happened at the beginning of aos 2.0). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said: It’s definitely odd. Well there could be 2reason for though. maybe they wanted to give us skaven players, a reason to use spiteclaw (who costs 50p more than the normal warlord) or the warlord on brood horror. Although it could also just be Gw laziness, not caring if there are any other models (which already happened at the beginning of aos 2.0). I would agree if it was just the brood horror. I feel like the spiteclaw move was intentional. Just wished they would have renamed it so it was more apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, Gdead909 said: I would agree if it was just the brood horror. I feel like the spiteclaw move was intentional. Just wished they would have renamed it so it was more apparent. Yeah, well, we might get Lucky and the whole thing will be changed with the new battletome which may come out, to our advantage (meaning maybe new commanabilitys?). but until the book comes out, well I’ll just enjoy my time restarting the total war warhammer Clan Mors campaign again, until I’ve dominated every last inch of the mortal realms for 31 times. Just need to do 1more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gdead909 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Yeah, well, we might get Lucky and the whole thing will be changed with the new battletome which may come out, to our advantage (meaning maybe new commanabilitys?). but until the book comes out, well I’ll just enjoy my time restarting the total war warhammer Clan Mors campaign again, until I’ve dominated every last inch of the mortal realms for 31 times. Just need to do 1more. 8 more times sir. You can only end in versions of 13. Get to 39!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Gdead909 said: 8 more times sir. You can only end in versions of 13. Get to 39!!! Interesting this would at least explain, why the attempts of doing the ritual to summon the great horned rat failed. I’ll try that out as soon as possible Edited January 18, 2019 by Skreech Verminking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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