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AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion

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Ah! Behold, the rise of the Crimson Kin is finally upon us!

These are excellent news...  not only for Soulblight, but for Legion of Blood as well! 
I know that - probably - the points reductions won’t bring us up there with the proper filth (Seraphons, Fyreslayers, Tzeench) but to me is about being able to squeeze MORE in those 2000 pts. Also, we shall oppose the utter filth with elegant martial finesse (i.e. move up turn one and charge everything blindly).

Now. Word on the street is, Hexwraiths are going down in points as well AND The Dolorous Guard battalion might still be matched play legal. If that is the case, we might have a viable SoulBlight list with a mega-tough Vhordrai (who ALSO went down in points?! That’s mental!) properly supported by a decent lineup of Blood Knights and a Coven Throne (ALSO down in point... this is a sign!)

I demand the return of the tournament scene in the UK... dice desperately need to be rolled!!!

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Posted (edited)

I was thinking that since the prince is now only 20 points more expensive than a normal lord and that realm artifacts are not an item anymore there is little to no reason to pick up the vanilla dragon lord unless you are running both him and the prince (although i would rather have neferata or mannfred along with vhordrai)

Edited by Raptor_Jesues
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How my old Soulblight list looks compared to new version with pts drop. Solid.

OLD Soulblight v1.0 TTS

 

Allegiance: Soulblight

- Bloodline: Swift Death

Mannfred Mortarch of Night (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Vampire Lord (140)

- General

- Mount: Nightmare

- Command Trait: Curse of the Revenant

- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne

- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Vampire Lord (140)

- Mount: Nightmare

- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

10 x Blood Knights (400)

10 x Blood Knights (400)

5 x Blood Knights (200)

10 x Dire Wolves (140)

- Allies

10 x Dire Wolves (140)

- Allies

Extra Command Point (50)

Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 280 / 400

Wounds: 136

 

NEW Soulblight v2.0 TTS

 

Allegiance: Soulblight

- Bloodline: Swift Death

Mannfred Mortarch of Night (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

Vampire Lord (140)

- General

- Mount: Nightmare

- Command Trait: Transfix 

- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 

- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

10 x Blood Knights (360)

10 x Blood Knights (360)

5 x Blood Knights (180)

2 x Bat Swarms (80)

5 x Dire Wolves (70)

- Allies

5 x Dire Wolves (70)

- Allies

Extra Command Point (50)

 

Total: 1990 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 140 / 400

Wounds: 132

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Really interesting, so you are not taking VLOZD and not taking Vhordrai? 
Is Neffy AND Manny worth it? dont you lack CPs for that?
What do you think about the Corpse Cart? I always felt that its worth a lot giving +1 to cast and kinda good with dire wolves as well. 

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8 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Ah! Behold, the rise of the Crimson Kin is finally upon us!

These are excellent news...  not only for Soulblight, but for Legion of Blood as well! 
I know that - probably - the points reductions won’t bring us up there with the proper filth (Seraphons, Fyreslayers, Tzeench) but to me is about being able to squeeze MORE in those 2000 pts. Also, we shall oppose the utter filth with elegant martial finesse (i.e. move up turn one and charge everything blindly).

Now. Word on the street is, Hexwraiths are going down in points as well AND The Dolorous Guard battalion might still be matched play legal. If that is the case, we might have a viable SoulBlight list with a mega-tough Vhordrai (who ALSO went down in points?! That’s mental!) properly supported by a decent lineup of Blood Knights and a Coven Throne (ALSO down in point... this is a sign!)

I demand the return of the tournament scene in the UK... dice desperately need to be rolled!!!

As it’s a Nighthaunt battalion I don’t think you can take it in Legions? Being Nighthaunt you definitely can’t take it in Soulblight except using allies

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25 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

As it’s a Nighthaunt battalion I don’t think you can take it in Legions? Being Nighthaunt you definitely can’t take it in Soulblight except using allies

You can because Nighthounts are allies and this batalion cost less then 400 points

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24 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

As it’s a Nighthaunt battalion I don’t think you can take it in Legions? Being Nighthaunt you definitely can’t take it in Soulblight except using allies

Yes you can. You pay the points for both hexwraiths and battalion (used to be exactly 400, now 380!) as allies. Tried and tested in more than a tournament... you can ally Nighthaunt battalions in both LoN and Soulblught - as per the FAQ, you just have to make sure you pay the points for the Nighthaunt units even if they can be taken as part of the LoN roster.

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So i was thinking and im getting rather indecisive. Do you guys think that for a bloodknights heavy force, one should go LoB or Soulblight? Sure, in LoB you have to get some critters in the battleline but some wolves can be very useful to block charges and stuff like that, not to speak about the +1 attack for everyone. Although considering that im not picking up a VLoZD anytime soon because of ETHEREAL AMULET GONE the prince is the prime choice for a smasher hero and soulblight gives him some juice. As i said, very undecisive, what do you fellow aristocrats think?

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

I was thinking that since the prince is now only 20 points more expensive than a normal lord and that realm artifacts are not an item anymore there is little to no reason to pick up the vanilla dragon lord unless you are running both him and the prince (although i would rather have neferata or mannfred along with vhordrai)

The points low of Vhodrai is good news, but he doesn't get the VAMPIRE LORD keyword, so he doesn't benefit of the Legion of Blood damage traits.

I can't understand why in 2020, GW still doesn't give him that keyword when it's obvious he is THE vampire lord along with Nef and Mannfred.

Edited by Seihoff
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I am not sure yet, propably LoB is still better, but I dont really care, Soulblight is the cooler version. And you can have an all Flying Force, which is fun as well. 

What do you mean by Vhordrai getting some juice by taking him in Soulblight over LoB?

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1 minute ago, Enwolved said:

I am not sure yet, propably LoB is still better, but I dont really care, Soulblight is the cooler version. And you can have an all Flying Force, which is fun as well. 

What do you mean by Vhordrai getting some juice by taking him in Soulblight over LoB?

Very fair point.
I mean that he gets the bloodline powerup like +2" in swift death or a casting bonus in necromantic while in LoB he does not get anything since he does not have the vampire lord keyword for some reason

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1 minute ago, warhammernerd said:

Soulblight, EVERYTIME. Rule of cool.

Can’t give a thumbs up anymore today, sooo...

qft

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Posted (edited)

then the tachings of Abhorash are clear, Soulblight it is. 
EDIT-
So, this is what i came up with considering  the new points. I must say, im rather surprised by the ammount of stuff i managed to fit in the army

 

 SOULBLIGHT, NECROMANTIC BLOODLINE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEADERS
Prince Vhordrai 460pts
Lore of the Vampires: Amethistyne Pinions
General

Neferata Mortharch of Blood 340pts
Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

UNITS 
5x Bloodknights 180pts

5x Bloodknights 180pts

5x Bloodknights 180pts

5x Bloodknights 180pts

6x Vargheists 300pts

3x Fell Bats 80pts

ENDLESS SPELLS
Soulsnare Shackles 40pts

Extra Command Point 50pts

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOT 1990 pts

i think i will roll with this untill the hero making rules come out, then the list may be subject to changes xD
i could consider swapping the shackles with the purlple sun if i went against some hordy army or those damn fyreslayers 

Edited by Raptor_Jesues
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1 hour ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

im getting rather indecisive. Do you guys think that for a bloodknights heavy force, one should go LoB or Soulblight?

Legion of Blood (LoB) and Soulblight (SB) are very different factions despite the fact you can run very similar lists as both. This is how I see them / play them:

- LoB has Endless Legions, but it's in weird spot in that sense as you desperately want to bring in as many Blood Knights as you can - but these are not summonable, so Endless Legions is useless for them. You could go Grimghast Reapers (which I adore) AND Blood Knights in the same list, which works - but you have to compromise in terms of numbers and support heroes. My current LoB strategy is to invest in Dire Wolves (such an amazing unit...) to leverage Endless Legions (and Deathly Invocations and so on...) AND Blood Knights to make the most of the +1 LoB attack. You can build tough LoB lists based on Endless Legions, but Legion of Sacrament is just better in that sense. LoB is excellent for balanced lists featuring both resilient components (Endless Legions) and punchy units (VLoZD and Blood Knights). The changes re: the artefacts will have an impact on the VLoZD vs Vhordrai debate. I won't go into that yet - let's wait to be 100% sure about the artefacts.

- SB can do two things really well: (1.) Be insanely fast/mobile. Swift Death is nuts (flying Blood Knights with a minimum, guaranteed threat range of 18 is bonkers) and we do have access to Amethystine Pinions,  Chronomantic Cogs and the Mist Form Command Trait (also bonkers). (2.) Hit like a truck. However, that's not really true / useful in the current meta. Lots of things hit harder or just don't die. Which leaves Soulblight with a very clear issue: survivability. Without Endless Legions, Deathly Invocation and Vile Transference alone are simply not enough. Vargheists are not summonable either and they die like flies. You can also build a +2 to cast list with the Necromantic blood line and an allied Corpse Cart, but the reality is that in the times of Tzeench / Seraphons / Lumineth that's not the best way forward.

The way I see it, I think it's fair to say that LoB is more viable, from a competitive standpoint, at this point in time, as what SB does well doesn't have a great impact in most games. However, SB allows me to take all my big monsters, my Blood Knights and my Vargheists and even ally the Mourngul (oh yeah) - as @warhammernerd righteously pointed out, the rule of cool is crystal clear in this case...

1 hour ago, Seihoff said:

I can't understand why in 2020, GW still doesn't give him that keyword when it's obvious he is THE vampire lord along with Nef and Mannfred.

I do agree re: both Neferata and Mannfred. Vhordrai, though, is sufficiently scary as it is, let's be honest. At full health and  fully buffed (his own spell + the Coven Throne command ability + the Vampire Lord command ability) the guy is downright INSANE already... do I want him to have +1 attack in LoB? Of course I do. Would that be in line with the fluff? Oh yes. Would it be sensible rules-wise? I say, probably not...  to be fair, I am quite surprised they brought it down in points. 6 mortal wounds flat on a 3+ (potentially a 2+) at full health, folks - flat. Shordemaire, for the win!

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3 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Yes you can. You pay the points for both hexwraiths and battalion (used to be exactly 400, now 380!) as allies. Tried and tested in more than a tournament... you can ally Nighthaunt battalions in both LoN and Soulblught - as per the FAQ, you just have to make sure you pay the points for the Nighthaunt units even if they can be taken as part of the LoN roster.

 

3 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

You can because Nighthounts are allies and this batalion cost less then 400 points

Yes sorry I meant without allies, as in part of a Legions/Soulblight army

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25 minutes ago, Thamalys said:
2 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

im getting rather indecisive. Do you guys think that for a bloodknights heavy force, one should go LoB or Soulblight?

Legion of Blood (LoB) and Soulblight (SB) are very different factions despite the fact you can run very similar lists as both. This is how I see them / play them:

- LoB has Endless Legions, but it's in weird spot in that sense as you desperately want to bring in as many Blood Knights as you can - but these are not summonable, so Endless Legions is useless for them. You could go Grimghast Reapers (which I adore) AND Blood Knights in the same list, which works - but you have to compromise in terms of numbers and support heroes. My current LoB strategy is to invest in Dire Wolves (such an amazing unit...) to leverage Endless Legions (and Deathly Invocations and so on...) AND Blood Knights to make the most of the +1 LoB attack. You can build tough LoB lists based on Endless Legions, but Legion of Sacrament is just better in that sense. LoB is excellent for balanced lists featuring both resilient components (Endless Legions) and punchy units (VLoZD and Blood Knights). The changes re: the artefacts will have an impact on the VLoZD vs Vhordrai debate. I won't go into that yet - let's wait to be 100% sure about the artefacts.

- SB can do two things really well: (1.) Be insanely fast/mobile. Swift Death is nuts (flying Blood Knights with a minimum, guaranteed threat range of 18 is bonkers) and we do have access to Amethystine Pinions,  Chronomantic Cogs and the Mist Form Command Trait (also bonkers). (2.) Hit like a truck. However, that's not really true / useful in the current meta. Lots of things hit harder or just don't die. Which leaves Soulblight with a very clear issue: survivability. Without Endless Legions, Deathly Invocation and Vile Transference alone are simply not enough. Vargheists are not summonable either and they die like flies. You can also build a +2 to cast list with the Necromantic blood line and an allied Corpse Cart, but the reality is that in the times of Tzeench / Seraphons / Lumineth that's not the best way forward.

The way I see it, I think it's fair to say that LoB is more viable, from a competitive standpoint, at this point in time, as what SB does well doesn't have a great impact in most games. However, SB allows me to take all my big monsters, my Blood Knights and my Vargheists and even ally the Mourngul (oh yeah) - as @warhammernerd righteously pointed out, the rule of cool is crystal clear in this case...

2 hours ago, Seihoff said:

I can't understand why in 2020, GW still doesn't give him that keyword when it's obvious he is THE vampire lord along with Nef and Mannfred.

I do agree re: both Neferata and Mannfred. Vhordrai, though, is sufficiently scary as it is, let's be honest. At full health and  fully buffed (his own spell + the Coven Throne command ability + the Vampire Lord command ability) the guy is downright INSANE already... do I want him to have +1 attack in LoB? Of course I do. Would that be in line with the fluff? Oh yes. Would it be sensible rules-wise? I say, probably not...  to be fair, I am quite surprised they brought it down in points. 6 mortal wounds flat on a 3+ (potentially a 2+) at full health, folks - flat. Shordemaire, for the win!

Those are very interesting explanations, thanks! I am curious what you say about VLOZD vs Vhordrai later on. 

What would your LoB list look like then? If you say you count on dire wolves and blood knights? Would be interested to see it.

btw: does the Saccharine Goblet work on the mount as well? I guess no?

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Just now, Enwolved said:

Those are very interesting explanations, thanks! I am curious what you say about VLOZD vs Vhordrai later on. 

What would your LoB list look like then? If you say you count on dire wolves and blood knights? Would be interested to see it.

btw: does the Saccharine Goblet work on the mount as well? I guess no?

alas it does not but vhordrai spell does

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3 hours ago, Enwolved said:

What would your LoB list look like then? If you say you count on dire wolves and blood knights? Would be interested to see it.

Alright, here's a tentative "GHB-2020-compliant" LoB list leveraging the points drops we have been discussing. I used to run a similar list with another Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (VLoZD) instead of Prince Vhordrai, but given than we might have lost the Etheral Amulet I think Vhordrai could be a better choice. The trick with this list is the very tough General who is taking advantage of the Dolorous Guard battalion (allied from Nighthaunts). It takes a lot of effort to take him down - and because of that, your Dire Wolves - will - keep coming back throughout the game (if you have the CPs, which are a problem. You start with 2 [because of the battalion] but you really want to use the VLoZD command ability anytime you can on himself/Vhordrai). Now while your opponent either wastes timeon the close-to-unkillable VLoZD (lethal mistake) or decides to stay clear of him (wiser) you have Vhordrai with Amethystine Pinions, who is another serious threat. If that was not enough, here they come two units of five Blood Knights. This list wasn't possible before the points drops (had to take a sub-optimale Tomb Banshee instead of the Vampire Lord) and it looks quite ok to me. Not many bodies on the board (hey, we are elitistic Vampires, right?) but you have the damage in three / four different places to bring most of your opponent's units down. If you fear tough hordes, group the two units of Blood Knights into a single unit of 10 and buff them - almost nothing can stand in their way. If double buffed (VLoZD and VL command abilities at the same time) 10 Blood Knights on the charge means 60.44 (rend -1) + 15 (no rend)   = 75.44 damage; against a 3+ save (that's right...) 30.22 +5 = 35.22 damage. 

LoB_GHB_2020_1.png.b6e238ae9b41ec6aadff1ae076d3a9da.png

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Posted (edited)

This list is rad, and I'm defo gonna give it a run for the money. I am however super struggling to work out where the hell 'Dolorous Guard battalion' comes from? It's defo not in the (yes I know its pants) Azyr app. 

 

oops found it, good call. 

Edited by warhammernerd

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5 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

This list is rad, and I'm defo gonna give it a run for the money. I am however super struggling to work out where the hell 'Dolorous Guard battalion' comes from? It's defo not in the (yes I know its pants) Azyr app. 

Nighthaunt batalion from White Darf magazine.

Greetings

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13 hours ago, Thamalys said:

 

17 hours ago, Enwolved said:

What would your LoB list look like then? If you say you count on dire wolves and blood knights? Would be interested to see it.

Alright, here's a tentative "GHB-2020-compliant" LoB list leveraging the points drops we have been discussing. I used to run a similar list with another Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (VLoZD) instead of Prince Vhordrai, but given than we might have lost the Etheral Amulet I think Vhordrai could be a better choice. The trick with this list is the very tough General who is taking advantage of the Dolorous Guard battalion (allied from Nighthaunts). It takes a lot of effort to take him down - and because of that, your Dire Wolves - will - keep coming back throughout the game (if you have the CPs, which are a problem. You start with 2 [because of the battalion] but you really want to use the VLoZD command ability anytime you can on himself/Vhordrai). Now while your opponent either wastes timeon the close-to-unkillable VLoZD (lethal mistake) or decides to stay clear of him (wiser) you have Vhordrai with Amethystine Pinions, who is another serious threat. If that was not enough, here they come two units of five Blood Knights. This list wasn't possible before the points drops (had to take a sub-optimale Tomb Banshee instead of the Vampire Lord) and it looks quite ok to me. Not many bodies on the board (hey, we are elitistic Vampires, right?) but you have the damage in three / four different places to bring most of your opponent's units down. If you fear tough hordes, group the two units of Blood Knights into a single unit of 10 and buff them - almost nothing can stand in their way. If double buffed (VLoZD and VL command abilities at the same time) 10 Blood Knights on the charge means 60.44 (rend -1) + 15 (no rend)   = 75.44 damage; against a 3+ save (that's right...) 30.22 +5 = 35.22 damage. 

LoB_GHB_2020_1.png.b6e238ae9b41ec6aadff1ae076d3a9da.png

 

That sounds pretty great, but I doubt that you make much use of Endless Legions, because you just dont have the CPs to do that. So I really like this idea, but it would be so great if you had the points left to buy that CP for 50 points. 

In addition to that: Do you think the Sword is better on the VLOZD?

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Posted (edited)

After reading Anvil of Apotheosis rules i think ill drop the vargheists for a 300 points smashf*cker vampire lord on abyssal terror to run as a general in a swift death army, mist form and saccharine goblet. That will be juicy

Edited by Raptor_Jesues

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Posted (edited)

How are you able to run vamp lord on abyssal terror in Soulblight it's not available in the allies?

Gotcha

Edited by warhammernerd

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Is the Vampire Lord in Abyssal Terror allowed for tournaments after this Generals? 

Greetings 

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