AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion

[The_Dudemeister]

Totally agree. Tournament play is very different from regular casual play.

For tournaments, you have one list that will fight against many different armies. So preferably every single unit needs to perform well in a variety of situations. Meanwhile in casual play you usually know your one opponent you play and in such a setting, very specialized units like Bat Swarms are extremely good!

[TMS]

With the divining powers of Google Translate I think the only thing happening is Manny and Neffy coming down to 340p each. The Japanese document is already up with the points changes: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/c7c3805e.pdf

Not very interesting, in other words. Doesn't introduce any new list varieties. The JP document is for some reason completely empty of any FAQs though, maybe some things have happened there as well. If not then I think it was strange of them to name Soulblight explicitly as an army with updates and not Legions in general.

Edited December 16, 2019 by TMS

[Thamalys]

4 hours ago, TMS said:

With the divining powers of Google Translate I think the only thing happening is Manny and Neffy coming down to 340p each. The Japanese document is already up with the points changes: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/c7c3805e.pdf

Not very interesting, in other words. Doesn't introduce any new list varieties. The JP document is for some reason completely empty of any FAQs though, maybe some things have happened there as well. If not then I think it was strange of them to name Soulblight explicitly as an army with updates and not Legions in general.

Our Beautiful Queen getting 40 points cheaper... not too bad, not too bad. Still a rather tricky pick in a competitive scenario, but it’s better than nothing, I suppose.

GW seems to have messed with the release/upload/app update of these  Errata to an unprecedented extent, though, hence a tiny part of me still hopes for... well, more.

[StokieRich]

17 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

Our Beautiful Queen getting 40 points cheaper... not too bad, not too bad. Still a rather tricky pick in a competitive scenario, but it’s better than nothing, I suppose.

GW seems to have messed with the release/upload/app update of these  Errata to an unprecedented extent, though, hence a tiny part of me still hopes for... well, more.

I appreciate not in Soulblight but she's pretty solid in legion of blood. Stacking her command ability can be pretty disgusting once things are - 2 to hit. 

I took her to blood and glory and did OK with 3-1 and a forfeit to watch the rugby. Not saying she's amazing but I think she worked pretty well pre points drop. 

Having said that I can now get her in plus have an extra command point so I'm not complaining! 

[Raptor_Jesues]

so this "soulbight" change was about manny and neferata getting a discount and some minor changes to the wording of dragon and terrorgheist. BORING

[Charlo]

I suppose both Mortarchs being an alternative to a VLoZD at 100pts cheaper is quite interesting. Manf especially kicks out a lot of damage for his cost now.

Not to mention both a two cast wizards.

Sadly we are ten points over from fitting Manf, Nef, 2 VLoZD and 3x3 Vargheists into a list 😂

HOWEVER You can now fit a Court of Nulahmia and 3x5 BKs into 2000pts with 30 to spare for some control endless spells (one Vampire being a dragon the other a horse). So Jaws, Pallisade or Swords. Pallisade probably the best. You also get to use the VLoZD as general.

Some contention on if you can use that battalion in SB but the Warscroll builder says so....

[Raptor_Jesues]

On 12/18/2019 at 12:25 AM, Charlo said:

I suppose both Mortarchs being an alternative to a VLoZD at 100pts cheaper is quite interesting. Manf especially kicks out a lot of damage for his cost now.

Not to mention both a two cast wizards.

Sadly we are ten points over from fitting Manf, Nef, 2 VLoZD and 3x3 Vargheists into a list 😂

HOWEVER You can now fit a Court of Nulahmia and 3x5 BKs into 2000pts with 30 to spare for some control endless spells (one Vampire being a dragon the other a horse). So Jaws, Pallisade or Swords. Pallisade probably the best. You also get to use the VLoZD as general.

Some contention on if you can use that battalion in SB but the Warscroll builder says so....

Uh. Actually did not tought about that. Totally gonna try that, thanks man

[Raptor_Jesues]

So, i came out with this. I dont really think it is very strong but nonethless it would be a good laugh. I think im going to be facing fyreslayers and my chances of winning are rather dim anyway, so i may as well get a good kick out of it and try the vampire bros combo: 

SOULBLIGHT, NECROMANTIC BLOODLINE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEADERS
Prince Vhordrai 480pts
Lore of the Vampires: Amethistyne Pinions

Mannfred Mortharch of Night 340pts
Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread

Vampire Lord 140pts
Flying Horror, General
Artifact: Sigyl of the Sanguine Throne
Command Trait: Curse of the Revenant
Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

UNITS 
10x Bloodknights 400pts

10x Bloodknights 400pts

3x Vargheists 150pts

ENDLESS SPELLS
Purple Sun of Shysh 50pts

Soulsnare Shackles 40pts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOT 2000pts

I feel like the endless spells are going to be quite annoying for the opponent (no dispell, slow speed across the army, big blobs of high value models with several wounds) and that is possibly the best i can ask against said opponent, i really like to get on his nerves

Edited December 25, 2019 by Raptor_Jesues

[TMS]

@Raptor_Jesues, Mannfred won't be able to take a deathmage spell in Soulblight... I suggest vile transference instead, to help top him and Vhordy up when needed.

Personally I now like smaller blood knight units rather than big ones. Less investment and doesn't hurt so bad when they get stuck on something. I like 6's of vargheists instead for when something really needs to get beaten up, with a good command ability on them they're just much more consistent.

Edited December 25, 2019 by TMS

[Raptor_Jesues]

47 minutes ago, TMS said:

@Raptor_Jesues, Mannfred won't be able to take a deathmage spell in Soulblight... I suggest vile transference instead, to help top him and Vhordy up when needed.

Personally I now like smaller blood knight units rather than big ones. Less investment and doesn't hurt so bad when they get stuck on something. I like 6's of vargheists instead for when something really needs to get beaten up, with a good command ability on them they're just much more consistent.

right, i always forget that stupid thing. 5 men squad you say? Interesting, i will try, thanks

[TMS]

Yeah, it is silly. If the mortarchs could take deathmage spells (like they should!) then they'd have a nice big plus to themselves in this army.

And with blood knights I mean just running those 20 as 4x5 instead of 2x10, that seems to work better for me. Sometimes you need 10 to kill something ASAP but more often I find them getting stuck or getting tagged by a lucky long range charge. With 2x5 you can have one unit ahead of the other and if the front unit gets into trouble the rear unit can charge in and help out. To properly kill things I like to have 6 vargheists instead of 10 blood knights, like I wrote before.

Edited December 26, 2019 by TMS

[Charlo]

I can also attest to BKs in 5s as opposed to 10s. They're just too unwieldy. While it's nice to get a big Vampire CA on a unit of ten I find 5 is more than enough for most jobs. 

[Thamalys]

6 hours ago, Charlo said:

I can also attest to BKs in 5s as opposed to 10s. They're just too unwieldy. While it's nice to get a big Vampire CA on a unit of ten I find 5 is more than enough for most jobs. 

Yep - one more in favour of 5-man units of BKs! Unless you need the most massive punch of them all, there are so many advantages... easier to fit on a single piece of terrain (cover!), easier to get all of them in combat even when targeting small characters,  practically immune to bravery, offering much more board control (assuming you are going to split bigger units into 5-man ones...) and more threats, as even "only" 5 BKs are still something your opponent has to deal with (no one wants to get charged by them...). They have been working great for me - only once or twice I wished I had 10 (against some massive FEC units, mostly). I only managed to convert 10 (took me a very long while...) but if ever we get new plastic kits I am going to buy some 30 more, I kid you not...

[Raptor_Jesues]

On 12/26/2019 at 10:40 AM, TMS said:

Yeah, it is silly...

 

13 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Yep - one more in favour of 5...

 

20 hours ago, Charlo said:

I can also attest to BKs in 5s as opposed to 10s...

well, then i guess that 4x5 men squad it is, expecially considered that mannfred CA is an area buff and having splitted squads will actually nets me better damage (more kastellans getting the reroll) in a prefect scenario. I was also thinking that maybe that lone vampire lord is not as usefull as i would like him to. Maybe i will switch him and the vargheists  out with an ally mortis engine, a bat swarm (or even a corpse cart to cast the purple sun on a 6 xD. Maybe a bit too silly i reckon) and a prismatic palisade, really rocking that magic, you know. Could it be nice?

Edited December 27, 2019 by Raptor_Jesues

[TMS]

@Raptor_Jesues, I usually find vampire lords to be pretty weak for their cost (except that sweet command ability!) but in your list it also gives you someone with a command trait and artefact. Having another caster to get your endless spells out isn't bad either. You could maybe try the Ruby Vial artefact since you're going necromantic. You'll be up to -3 bravery with your banners, could be cool depending on the opponent. I don't really know how good battleshock is vs Fyreslayers though.

I think a mortis engine would be a cool ally to your list. It's fast and the banshee scream benefits from your negatives to bravery. It also gives a bonus to cast and can heal all our multi-wound units. I would probably drop 5 blood knights to fit the engine in.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by TMS

[Charlo]

Mortis Enginges are really sweet allies to Necromantic SB. +2 to cast on turn one ensures the buffs and other spells you need go off fairly unimpeded. It also helps lay down things like Shackles or Pallisade to control the board and force your opponent to try and unbind them. 

The Banshee scream combos excellently with the - 2Br that BKs lay down and the healing /mortals AoE can be really useful to snipe smaller heroes. 

As for Vampire Lords, yeah, they're a bit ******. Very much a high tier AoS 1 wars roll that needs attention. Sadly in SB you pay for invocation that will most likely be ignored. However... A single extra cast means a cheeky arcane bolt or mystic shield or endless. As for Artefacts, the Saccharine Goblet is genuinely OPAF.  2+/2+/-1/D3 is a scary profile and the downside is basically nonexistent. 

A single Vampire lord can be used to just sit on an objective too, or fly around harassing war machines very effectively. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Charlo

[Thamalys]

2 hours ago, Charlo said:

A single Vampire lord can be used to just sit on an objective too, or fly around harassing war machines very effectively.

There’s always a Vampire Lord in my LoB, as +1 attack on a unit of 30 Grimghast Reapers means ~90 (quality!) attacks. Here, a VL is only useful, in my opinion, when buffing big (i.e. > 10) units of Blood Knights.

I have to say, I almost always end up playing LoB instead of SoulBlight these days... it’s real hard to do better than the +1 attack on both VLoZDs and Blood Knights together with Endless Legions... I feel we need more love to really shine, but then again I might be missing something...

[TMS]

@Thamalys, I don't think you're missing anything, really. Legions are a stronger army, if not only for the gravesite + summonable combo. The only things Soulblight offer that Legions can't get are flying blood knights, as being stuck on the ground can be really limiting sometimes, and mist form VLoZD, which is simply just great. Aside from that it's purely a theme and fluff thing for me, since this is THE actual vampire army.

I hope that either Soulblight gets its own tome or Legion of Blood is expanded to become less "just undead" and more vampirey. A thrall & vampire relationship á la Blood Bowl would be a nice angle to take, possibly with a focus on regenerating wounds instead of resurrection. More than once have my VLoZD survived on a single wound, rolling hot on those deathless saves, and then bounced right back up with a good chalice and a double cast of vile transference... just beautiful. 🧛‍♂️

I hope we'll get something new next year, either as a tome or as an update to Legions.

Edited December 27, 2019 by TMS

[Raptor_Jesues]

34 minutes ago, TMS said:

@Thamalys, I don't think you're missing anything, really. Legions are a stronger army, if not only for the gravesite + summonable combo. The only things Soulblight offer that Legions can't get are flying blood knights, as being stuck on the ground can be really limiting sometimes, and mist form VLoZD, which is simply just great. Aside from that it's purely a theme and fluff thing for me, since this is THE actual vampire army.

I hope that either Soulblight gets its own tome or Legion of Blood is expanded to become less "just undead" and more vampirey. A thrall & vampire relationship á la Blood Bowl would be a nice angle to take, possibly with a focus on regenerating wounds instead of resurrection. More than once have my VLoZD survived on a single wound, rolling hot on those deathless saves, and then bounced right back up with a good chalice and a double cast of vile transference... just beautiful. 🧛‍♂️

I hope we'll get something new next year, either as a tome or as an update to Legions.

finger crossed for Jaunary open day. Anyway i did the modifications and the list is now basically Manny+Prince, 3x5 knights, 6varheists, mortis engine and purple sun+shackles spells. Looks pretty good, gonna try it and give some feedback

[TMS]

Happy new year everyone! May the coming year bring your army/armies much battle and glory!

The first list I'm going to try this year I think will be one to celebrate my 6 new vargheists I got painted up.

• VLoZD
• Vampire Lord
• 4x5 Blood Knights
• 2x6 Vargheists

1980/2000

The list is lacking something cheap like bat swarms, doesn't have  that very useful extra command point and I'm kinda screwed if one of the hero-only scenarios show up but there's a lot of scary things running around here. 🧛‍♀️

[Thamalys]

6 minutes ago, TMS said:

Happy new year everyone! May the coming year bring your army/armies much battle and glory!

The first list I'm going to try this year I think will be one to celebrate my 6 new vargheists I got painted up.

• VLoZD
• Vampire Lord
• 4x5 Blood Knights
• 2x6 Vargheists

1980/2000

The list is lacking something cheap like bat swarms, doesn't have  that very useful extra command point and I'm kinda screwed if one of the hero-only scenarios show up but there's a lot of scary things running around here. 🧛‍♀️

I like it - what Bloodline? This is sort of screaming Swift Death in my head... if it gets there quickly enough there's going to be some blood on the ground!

[TMS]

@Thamalys Yeah, certainly Swift Death. This list wants to move fast!

Just noticed in the numbers that I could switch out the Vampire Lord for 2x Bat Swarms. Dangerously low on characters but provides something small and cheap to get in the way and harass shooters.

[Honk]

15 hours ago, TMS said:

Dangerously

If you field SB, you’ll have to play dangerous 😈👍

[Raptor_Jesues]

On 1/1/2020 at 9:44 PM, TMS said:

Happy new year everyone! May the coming year bring your army/armies much battle and glory!

The first list I'm going to try this year I think will be one to celebrate my 6 new vargheists I got painted up.

• VLoZD
• Vampire Lord
• 4x5 Blood Knights
• 2x6 Vargheists

1980/2000

The list is lacking something cheap like bat swarms, doesn't have  that very useful extra command point and I'm kinda screwed if one of the hero-only scenarios show up but there's a lot of scary things running around here. 🧛‍♀️

This actually looks pretty damn good. Let us nknow hot it rolls and dont forget to bottle some of the blood and label it with the year and the name of the hero tha got killed. On a similar note, i got myself a nice Skragrott bottle yesterday:

Remember the list i posted? Turns out i was to fight gobbos, not fyreslayers. I didnt change anything cose it looked rather nice against them: i had the prince, mannfred, allied mortis engine, 3x5 knights, 6 vargheist, soulsnare shackles and the sun (that i did not use). The opponent had Skragrott, a boss on squig, a big troll, 80 gobbos in three units, 2x10 squig knights, a mangler squig and two endless spells that did nothing. Scorched earth mission, he wins the setup and goes first.
turn 1:
he literally stays still, offering me a bait charge on the gobbos and pews mannfred with the moon but he ignores the wound.
I dont take the bait and go forth putting the knoghts in front for him to charge or to get a double turn. Mannfred also cast the shackles in front of the big troll and 40 gobbos basically stopping them still for the rest of the game, atta boy. 
turn 2:
i dont get the double turn. He goes and hand of gork 20 gobbos on my rear obj destroying it and unleashing the crazy gobbos with the flails into the vargheists killing ****** three. Then he charges my knights with his squig knights and the mangler squid. I start readying my bag to return home defeated but the knights not only survive but one squad also kill half the squig riders and the other squad (that was in cover and just lost one guy) almost kills the mangler in return! That was rather lucky i must say but putting them in a V formation helped minimized the damage. He breaks two more obj
I get to go and i fly a buffed vhordrai over the fighting to smash into 10 squig knights while mannfred gets in position with his command ability. My counter charge is deadly, killing all the knights (thanks vhordrai), the mangler squid (thanks blood knights) and Skragrott is fryied by the dragon with 6 mortal wounds (THANKS VHORDRAI, HOLY ******).  I manage to break one obj but at this point is clear that i will win only on a wipe out. 
turn 3:
I still dont get the double turn. He tries to salvage what is left of his army and runs from vhordrai but the shackles do their job (freakin priceless) and the important part of his army stays still. His boss runs away from the action. 
I go and vhordrai charges the 40 gobbos after flaming them, the bloodknights charge the big troll and manfred charges 20 gobbos along with the three surviving vargheists.  The troll holds with two wound left (i failed to get the knights in mannfred CA, im dumb) but he only gets two knights. mannfred and the vargheist kill 18 gobbos but thanks to the moon mountain thing they dont run away (damn). Vhordrai KILLS 35 GOBBOS but the rest does not run for the same reason. Dang it.  I burn another obj
turn 4:
I STILL DONT GET THE DOUBLE TURN. He runs away grabbing his three remaining obj and does nothing. The troll smashes another knight but gets skewered in return. 
I get to go and charge the gobbos with only three knights thinking that it will be enough while vhordrai flies over the boss and fries him along with the obj. mannfred and the vargheists kill the remaning gobbos and burn an obj BUT the bloodknights do not manage to kill 5 gobbos (ARGH) and he mantains that obj. 

we call it for the late hour and the game ends 15-18 for me, but if we played the last turn i would have burned his last obj thus probably winning but whatever, i still feel like i won. he had basically nothing left

I never really appreciated vhordrai untill now, he is a freakin beast and i love him. he killed 35 gobbos, Skragrot, a boss on squig and 10 squig knights, ending with 13 wounds left. What a champ, holy nagash. I had a lot of fun even though my luck was rather swingy
 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Raptor_Jesues

[Thamalys]

3 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

This actually looks pretty damn good. Let us nknow hot it rolls and dont forget to bottle some of the blood and label it with the year and the name of the hero tha got killed. On a similar note, i got myself a nice Skragrott bottle yesterday:

Remember the list i posted? Turns out i was to fight gobbos, not fyreslayers. I didnt change anything cose it looked rather nice against them: i had the prince, mannfred, allied mortis engine, 3x5 knights, 6 vargheist, soulsnare shackles and the sun (that i did not use). The opponent had Skragrott, a boss on squig, a big troll, 80 gobbos in three units, 2x10 squig knights, a mangler squig and two endless spells that did nothing. Scorched earth mission, he wins the setup and goes first.
turn 1:
he literally stays still, offering me a bait charge on the gobbos and pews mannfred with the moon but he ignores the wound.
I dont take the bait and go forth putting the knoghts in front for him to charge or to get a double turn. Mannfred also cast the shackles in front of the big troll and 40 gobbos basically stopping them still for the rest of the game, atta boy. 
turn 2:
i dont get the double turn. He goes and hand of gork 20 gobbos on my rear obj destroying it and unleashing the crazy gobbos with the flails into the vargheists killing ****** three. Then he charges my knights with his squig knights and the mangler squid. I start readying my bag to return home defeated but the knights not only survive but one squad also kill half the squig riders and the other squad (that was in cover and just lost one guy) almost kills the mangler in return! That was rather lucky i must say but putting them in a V formation helped minimized the damage. He breaks two more obj
I get to go and i fly a buffed vhordrai over the fighting to smash into 10 squig knights while mannfred gets in position with his command ability. My counter charge is deadly, killing all the knights (thanks vhordrai), the mangler squid (thanks blood knights) and Skragrott is fryied by the dragon with 6 mortal wounds (THANKS VHORDRAI, HOLY ******).  I manage to break one obj but at this point is clear that i will win only on a wipe out. 
turn 3:
I still dont get the double turn. He tries to salvage what is left of his army and runs from vhordrai but the shackles do their job (freakin priceless) and the important part of his army stays still. His boss runs away from the action. 
I go and vhordrai charges the 40 gobbos after flaming them, the bloodknights charge the big troll and manfred charges 20 gobbos along with the three surviving vargheists.  The troll holds with two wound left (i failed to get the knights in mannfred CA, im dumb) but he only gets two knights. mannfred and the vargheist kill 18 gobbos but thanks to the moon mountain thing they dont run away (damn). Vhordrai KILLS 35 GOBBOS but the rest does not run for the same reason. Dang it.  I burn another obj
turn 4:
I STILL DONT GET THE DOUBLE TURN. He runs away grabbing his three remaining obj and does nothing. The troll smashes another knight but gets skewered in return. 
I get to go and charge the gobbos with only three knights thinking that it will be enough while vhordrai flies over the boss and fries him along with the obj. mannfred and the vargheists kill the remaning gobbos and burn an obj BUT the bloodknights do not manage to kill 5 gobbos (ARGH) and he mantains that obj. 

we call it for the late hour and the game ends 15-18 for me, but if we played the last turn i would have burned his last obj thus probably winning but whatever, i still feel like i won. he had basically nothing left

I never really appreciated vhordrai untill now, he is a freakin beast and i love him. he killed 35 gobbos, Skragrot, a boss on squig and 10 squig knights, ending with 13 wounds left. What a champ, holy nagash. I had a lot of fun even though my luck was rather swingy
 

Great stuff - glad to hear that Our Posh Prince delivered! He dies much quicker than a “regular” VLoZD with an Ethereal Amulet or a Gryph-feather Charm, but if the opponent doesn’t have some seriously heavy hitters the V-train is well nigh unstoppable... plus, the 6 MWs flat damage on the shooting attack at full health is one of the best character-sniping resources of the entire game (well, we do have the Mortek Crawler now...). If only I could be bothered to convert&paint more Blood Knights I’d definitely field the Castellans of the Crimson Keep - potentially the coolest battalion in the whole of AoS (lore-wise, I mean). I’m not quite sold on Mannfred instead - yet...