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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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3 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

@MutterI run 2x units of 15. The mounted KoS only affects 1 unit. The foot KoS affects everyone in range

Also running two units of 15 I think its pretty unrealistic that you would keep all 30 within 9 of the Kos especially if you fluff the charge. 

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Posted (edited)

Hence I said its unrealistic. Just was curious about the math hammer.

Its 12" tho

Ah well; trying to think of an excuse to use either my foot KoS (first ghost I painted) or Garkorr (proxy KoS)

Edited by Neck-Romantic

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They say that on the internet, often the best way to get the correct answer, is to post the wrong one. So with that in mind, Here is my undoubtedly in need of work list:

 

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Mortal Realm: Shyish

LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
  - General
  - Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
  - Artefact : Midnight Tome
  - Lore of the Underworlds : Soul cage
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
  - Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
  - Artefact : Headsman's Judgement
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
  - Lore of the Underworlds : Shade Mist
Vampire Lord (140)
  - Nightmare
  - Allies

UNITS
2 x Chainghasts (80)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (140)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (140)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)

BATTALIONS
Shroudguard (110)
The Condemned (150)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 115
LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 3/3 ALLIES: 140/400

 

The idea is a hammer and anvil style, with a solid core and a fast flanking force. The main block of my army will be the two chainrasp blobs, which are pretty killy with the condemned and the guardian of souls (4+ w/rerolls to hit and 3+ reroll ones to wound). This will be supplemented by the mobile arm of the shroud guard plus the hexwraiths, who are extra mobile with a +3" to move.  The final piece to the puzzle is the grimghast reapers who will start in the underworld, and pop out where needed. I tossed in a vampire lord for an extra dispel, and his deathly invocation, he isn't fast enough to hang out with the hexwratih crew so he will probably just hang out with the chainrasps. Also as a side question, I assume he doesn't get a lore of vampires spell since that's not called out on his data sheet, and he can't benefit from the NH allegiance, but just in case I was wrong I thought I'd double check. Spells were a last consideration, I went with shademist on the GoS to toughen up the chainrasp hordes a bit, and Soul cage on the warlord to prevent retreat from the hexwratihs and debuff their target.

So what massive newbie mistakes have I made and what suggestions do you guys have?

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On 2/28/2019 at 4:43 PM, Greasygeek said:

-Wholly within is the actual go-to. With the unmodified hit/wound rolls. Imho, it is a necessary choice to put these. 

I suspect that you are right in most cases, but if so then why does our auras have such a short range? I asume I am not the only one who struggle to stay within the auras. I mean its not like we could really take advantage of this anyway if the range was wider as NH has only 3 options of bringing back models.

Staying within the auras is easy and complicated at the same time:

-Easy because your heroes can fly and have a decent move + they can run as they won't be in combat (generally. If they do, you're screwed anyways).

-Complicated because as you said they are wholly within 12" generally speaking. Only the KoS on Steed has 18". 

I believe the wholly within 12" is because the entire army is designed and played as glasscannon.  So it "suits" well with the philosophy...

Now, that being said: clearly 12" is difficult to get, specially when you want to make a line of your unit, to get objectives/lock multiple units, etc... :D 

On 2/28/2019 at 6:19 PM, Nevar said:

This only makes my point about the Mourngul living in sadness more valid no?

Yes. 

But still, the Mourngul can find some relative effectiveness in some lists: A native -1 to hit debuff. And if you play it with Lady Olynder's spell (an additional -1 to hit), your Mourngul can lock quite some units, actually: -2 to hit, decent amount of wounds, 4+ can't be modified, can heal itself, etc... 

The pts cost of it is still "meeeeh" but he has a totally different utility and playstyle than the Coach.

Though, I played the Coach last weekend, and it surprised me with the amount of dmg he can put. I didn't think he would be that tanky/hitting hard/such mobility; although I never got further than lvl 2 in 4 turns lol. 

I still prefer the 20 man blob of Bladegheists though.

On 3/1/2019 at 12:35 AM, Grailstorm said:

I thought when it was normal text like this it referred to Warscroll name, while when it is bold it refers to Keyword? As in, Knight of Shrouds has its own Warscroll and this is what the Batallion uses.

Meanwhile, in the Stormcast book, you have a Batallion that mentions Paladins in bold, which means any of the Paladin units...

For me it is Keyword related. Both Knight of Shrouds.

On 3/1/2019 at 6:45 PM, Belakor said:

Guys I'm pretty new to AoS and I have a nighthaunt army. When you say a nerf or a buff or change the rules of some unit what does it mean exactly? Every year they change all points values? Will we have to wait for the next Nighthaunt battletome? 

Thanks! 

Every year they update the pts cost of every armies through the General's handbook. 

And within the year, they update some rules via FAQ and erratas. Some of the rules are strong, and when they get FAQed, generally they get nerfed a little (or a lot). And the other way around can work too. 

On 3/2/2019 at 8:45 PM, Neck-Romantic said:

So has anyone tried running a foot KoS rather than a mounted one in the Shroudguard?

Wondering if giving 30 blades +1 to hit would mathhammer out better than 15 blades +1 attack

(Though admittedly keeping that many bases within 12 rather than one group within 18 would be rather difficult)

You are limited to 20 Bladegheists in a unit. 

But still, I believe the KoS on foot can do some work: General, ruler of the spirit hosts, -1 to hit as he will stay inside the blob and will have a 5++ fnp. Can bring in d3 models. The units of Bladegheists can be a real nuisance for the opponent. Can the KoS keep up with the retreat and charge though? Dunno. Why not. 

 I'd prefer casting Olynder's spell on the unit targeted by the Bladegheists, and use the +1 to hit command ability of the KoS on a unit of Reapers, honestly. 

On 3/3/2019 at 12:02 AM, Franek said:

Hello everyone, I'm new here and I'm excited to be a member of this ghastly big community :)

Giving a comment on previous topic before I introduce my own concern I think that KoS on foot is jst straight up garbage :D There really is no viable way to play it that I see (for example Olynder's spell give basically the same with another -1 to hit for the oppponent so why bother?).

I have a match with DoK (with Morathi) this Tuesday and I'd like you guys to give me some feedback on my list and perhaps comments on tactics. I have a fairly big (though not massive) collection of NH models to choose from (though not 60 reapers, sorry).

Without further to do, that's the list: 

Olynder (General) - Lifestealer

Vampire Lord (Pendand of the Fell Wind)

30 Reapers

3 units of 10 Chainrasps (screen)

2 Mournguls

20 Bladegheists


Chronomantic Cogs 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh

 

2000pt

Tell me guys what do you think.

Except the fact that the VL can't take any artefact, I kinda like it versus a DoK: Multiple to hit debuff can hurt them quite a bit. 

12 hours ago, grimgold said:

They say that on the internet, often the best way to get the correct answer, is to post the wrong one. So with that in mind, Here is my undoubtedly in need of work list:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Mortal Realm: Shyish

LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
  - General
  - Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
  - Artefact : Midnight Tome
  - Lore of the Underworlds : Soul cage
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
  - Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
  - Artefact : Headsman's Judgement
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
  - Lore of the Underworlds : Shade Mist
Vampire Lord (140)
  - Nightmare
  - Allies

UNITS
2 x Chainghasts (80)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (140)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (140)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)

BATTALIONS
Shroudguard (110)
The Condemned (150)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 115
LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 3/3 ALLIES: 140/400

 

The idea is a hammer and anvil style, with a solid core and a fast flanking force. The main block of my army will be the two chainrasp blobs, which are pretty killy with the condemned and the guardian of souls (4+ w/rerolls to hit and 3+ reroll ones to wound). This will be supplemented by the mobile arm of the shroud guard plus the hexwraiths, who are extra mobile with a +3" to move.  The final piece to the puzzle is the grimghast reapers who will start in the underworld, and pop out where needed. I tossed in a vampire lord for an extra dispel, and his deathly invocation, he isn't fast enough to hang out with the hexwratih crew so he will probably just hang out with the chainrasps. Also as a side question, I assume he doesn't get a lore of vampires spell since that's not called out on his data sheet, and he can't benefit from the NH allegiance, but just in case I was wrong I thought I'd double check. Spells were a last consideration, I went with shademist on the GoS to toughen up the chainrasp hordes a bit, and Soul cage on the warlord to prevent retreat from the hexwratihs and debuff their target.

So what massive newbie mistakes have I made and what suggestions do you guys have?

I believe you made a mistake in the list: Shroudguard is with Bladegheists Revenants units.

Otherwise: You don't have enough tanky units to be the anvil and enough hard hitting units to be the hammer. 

To be the anvil: You can use the chainrasp hordes, with the shademist on them, it might work, even I am not really sold out on them. But a -1 to hit debuff source can be really nice as well (like geminids endless spell by removing one dreadblade harrow)... but that's personal! 

And you definitely need to regroup your 2*10 Reapers in a 1*20 Reapers unit.

Hexwraiths, I am doubtful, but why not

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11 hours ago, Alezya said:

Hexwraiths, I am doubtful, but why not

They’re a mobile anvil.

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@Alezya

Good post! Lots of feedback.

But again I meant 2x units of 15 blades. Hence the mounted KoS can give 15 of them +1 attack or the foot can possibly give all 30 +1 to hit... but only possibly

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In case anyone's interested went 3 wins at the gt heat 1 with this. Tbh should probably swap arkhan and the hosts for 20 readers and a small hero but don't want to push that many models around.

Allegiance: Death
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- Allies
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Spirit Torment (120)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
Shroudguard (110)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

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@Spears Congrats on the wins!  Noticed you didn't have a Guardian of Souls, did you miss it?

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I used to run 2 GoS but afrer failing their spells constantly Ive started running 2 ST's instead

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, relic456 said:

@Spears Congrats on the wins!  Noticed you didn't have a Guardian of Souls, did you miss it?

Thinking back there weren't many games where I would have had a chance to cast it's spell. When someone hits the bladegheists they just blow up anyway and with a low drop alpha list it's reasonably likely to be double turned into turn 2.

Edited by Spears

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8 hours ago, Spears said:

20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

How well did these perform at blocks of twenty in a 2,000 point list?

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They did the job of forcing an enemy to kill them to take their objective or in one case skittereleap and banish them.

Stuff like thanqoul and the giant sequitor blocks walked through them, but I don't think a 40 would have held up much better.

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Thats sort of the trouble with our units; 20 or 40 5+ rasps arent THAT hard to cut though.

Plus Myrmourns Bladegheists Grimghasts Glavewraiths Dreadscythes are all the same defensivly, 4+ save 1 wound and they dont stand up to much punishment either.

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So does anyone know if there is any novelles or such about or including Lady Olyender? She appear to have an interesting story and would love to know her the same way we know about the other mortachs. Also that whole thing about being married in the afterlife, how about that?!  

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Only stories I hear about her is her being sniped off the tables due to 7 wounds and a 4+ save

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4 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Only stories I hear about her is her being sniped off the tables due to 7 wounds and a 4+ save

Yeah.. not much of a bestseller in that part of her story.. I wonder if GW realise how unattractive nighthaunts are on the competitive scene and if we can expect an overhaul in the next GHB or if this state is stuck with us for years to come?

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Out of curiosity, what changes do you think would help our heros to become more competitive?

As someone who regularly faces 2/3 of the new lightning cannons, I'm struggling to see anyway of keeping heroes alive for more than one turn while still making decent use of them

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Hello, tomorrow i have my first game with the Nighthaunts. It is against a Nurgle list build around Blight Kings and Pusgoyles.

We want to play 1250 and this is my list:

 

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern

Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 


20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)


15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)

Total: 1230 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 1

Have you some advices against Nurgle, at the moment i´m unsure, if this list can work against a list full of guys with lots of wounds, attacks and also Regeneration.

 

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@Rhargar

Tough call; 20 rasps will fold quickly when pressed, one healer can be easily sniped so keep your GoS surrounded.

Bladegheists are great to hunt his characters but all in one clump at the point level leaves you with very few units to engage with. If you can; try to isolate and overkill a single unit per turn with your rasps/hosts and wipe his supports with the blades.

Dont hesitate to pull the blades out of danger in order to get a cluth heal before hurling them back in. Play conservativly with the mKoS

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Hey all, I am new to nighthaunt and trying to figure out where to begin. I have the Nighthaunt from the Soulwars starter box and trying work out how to get from here to a competitive 2000 pt army. I am not a horde army kinda person, I come from Ironjawz and I really liked it, even if elite isn't ideal to be competitive sometimes. I really like the lore and the look of the Nighthaunt army and would love to use some of the cool new models. So my 2 questions are:

1. How do I build a competitive list that hits hard and wipes out the enemy, or burns out trying.

2. How do I build that list cost effectively with the weird purchase options, 4 grimghast reapers... really dafaq is that!?

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5 minutes ago, Bladesway said:

2. How do I build that list cost effectively with the weird purchase options, 4 grimghast reapers... really dafaq is that!?

The Devs and Sales are mostly separate departments.  Whenever a suspicious “******-you” comes out it was the Sales Department changing things.

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Was wondering what you good people think of this list.

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140) (Or use the one with  the Mortality Glass,) 
- Lore of the Underworlds : Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Beacon of Nagashizzar

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact : Cloak of the Waxing Moon

Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist

Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind

UNITS

10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
4 x Chainghasts (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

BATTALIONS

Shroudguard (110)
The Condemned (150)

TOTAL: 1960/2000  EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2  WOUNDS: 111

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This list looks like fun to paint :P maybe too much unit veriaty? What does the collective think?

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact : Mirror of Screaming Souls
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Beacon of Nagashizzar
Lord Executioner (80)
Spirit Torment (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact : Slitter
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Spectral Tether

UNITS
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)

5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)

5 x Hexwraiths (160)
4 x Chainghasts (160)
4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)

BATTALIONS
Shroudguard (110)
Chainguard (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 105
LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 3/3 ALLIES: 0/400

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I've got a list I would like criticism :)

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed(140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind 
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123

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What's peoples take on the executioners horde? Seems like a pretty solid batallion and a way to make a pretty descent hero a pain in the ass for your opponents, if you make him general, with ruler of spirits and midnight tome?

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