AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Neck-Romantic]

Well to be fair; a few point tweaks are in oder. Many of our units are in bad shape, Glaives especially.

I wouldnt argue with a small bump up to Grims, but glaives need to be nearly cut in half if their warscroll stays the same

Edited February 27, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Greasygeek]

Bump up to reapers? Noo if they do this all we got left is chainrasp horde armies. 

The NH tome is an enigma to me as I have said before.

- Why can’t we debuff bravery?(they’re ghosts for crying out loud).

- Why does Hexwraiths cost the same as Blightkings?

- Why is everything wholly within and at a very short distance?

- How come we only make mortal wounds or buffs on unmodified hits and wounds? (Lord Executioner is one of the coolest looking models, and yet he is close to useless).

- Why don’t we have a piece of scenery since this is the first army of AOS 2? 

- Why is our Mortach such a poor choice as a general?

Im not saying that all of these points should be adressed but some of them sure need to.

 

 

[Malakithe]

Theres no way that Grims dont get a points increase given how popular they are. GW is just like Blizzard in the fact that they tweak things based on community metrics. 

Grims share a role with Blades which is kinda strange but at the same time if Grims go up in points what will people take for the shredder unit? Many units need points tweaks I think. 

I have no idea what the point of Glaives are. The are just bad in all aspects. There is no defined role or purpose for them. 

[Nevar]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Theres no way that Grims dont get a points increase given how popular they are. GW is just like Blizzard in the fact that they tweak things based on community metrics. 

Grims share a role with Blades which is kinda strange but at the same time if Grims go up in points what will people take for the shredder unit? Many units need points tweaks I think. 

I have no idea what the point of Glaives are. The are just bad in all aspects. There is no defined role or purpose for them. 

Their stat block is good, and they can retreat and charge with flight.  That alone makes them good units.  Their problem is they compete with better, and are a bit overcosted.  I agree they lack a role, but that is mainly due to other units filling it better.  IMO if they were made into battleline, even if their points remained the same, they would become much more useful.  I would fill all three slots of my battleline with them at current prices and current stats now if I could.  I would much prefer them over any of our current battleline, and that includes the Grims.

My list does have 45 Bladegeists in it though... and they are sort of doing the Grim's job as it was.  But a battleline that could retreat and charge with flying would make a whole different kind of flowing force that would be impossible to lock down.  I would love an 'anvil' unit that can up and move whenever I feel like it.

[Neck-Romantic]

I agree.

Glaives either as they are + battleline or with a hefty price reduction would make them useable. Maybe both

[MrRoff]

1 minute ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I agree.

Glaives either as they are + battleline or with a hefty price reduction would make them useable. Maybe both

I would like to see them get something extra in their kit. Not just point tweak or changed battleline, currently I haven't seen a singel NH / LoN with Glaives where I play. 

[Malakithe]

20 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

I would like to see them get something extra in their kit. Not just point tweak or changed battleline, currently I haven't seen a singel NH / LoN with Glaives where I play. 

Probably because they have no point in any list. 4 per 60pts? With a max of 16 per 240pts. And almost the same statline and damage output as Chains..who happen to be 40 per 280. Easily clear who the winning of that is lol

[Grailstorm]

Can you take a mounted knight of shrouds in Shroudguard? I believe not, but see a lot of lists doing so.

[Alezya]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:17 AM, Nevar said:

Coach is pretty much always better in my opinion.  Mourngul got nerfed too much.  If he was like 200 pts then he would be good, but right now he is more expensive than our coach, and his main niche is he -1 to hit aura.  Can be awesome, but he is a model you have to build a list around to get his full benefits.  If you already have him, take him for a spin, but I would not recommend buying one to use at the moment.  Maybe build and paint him for fun and hope he gets some love in the GHB coming up.  Mine collects dust.

The Black coach is still overpriced. It is strong, ok; but 280 pts is way too much. 

17 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

The NH tome is an enigma to me as I have said before.

- Why can’t we debuff bravery?(they’re ghosts for crying out loud).

- Why does Hexwraiths cost the same as Blightkings?

- Why is everything wholly within and at a very short distance?

- How come we only make mortal wounds or buffs on unmodified hits and wounds? (Lord Executioner is one of the coolest looking models, and yet he is close to useless).

- Why don’t we have a piece of scenery since this is the first army of AOS 2? 

- Why is our Mortach such a poor choice as a general?

Im not saying that all of these points should be adressed but some of them sure need to.

-You have the shrieking ghost battalion. No?

-Dunno

-Wholly within is the actual go-to. With the unmodified hit/wound rolls. Imho, it is a necessary choice to put these. 

-Mmmmh new SCEs don't have piece of scenery too ^^ The piece of scenery isn't that important honestly.

-Dunno

1 hour ago, Grailstorm said:

Can you take a mounted knight of shrouds in Shroudguard? I believe not, but see a lot of lists doing so.

Yes you can. They only mention Knight of Shroud. There is no specification whether it be mounted or not.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Alezya

[Greasygeek]

21 minutes ago, Alezya said:

- You have the shrieking ghost battalion. No?

We do indeed but thats very far from enough if Banshee heroes should ever be effective against anything else than units of 5-9 skavens and grots. 

Maggotkin (my other faction) can easily build a -4 bravery list and even more if counting endless spells.

NH can get -1 bravery and only within 6”. Sure a reroll 1 is fine but way to swingy to bring a banshee hero for anything than narrative games.

 

-Wholly within is the actual go-to. With the unmodified hit/wound rolls. Imho, it is a necessary choice to put these. 

I suspect that you are right in most cases, but if so then why does our auras have such a short range? I asume I am not the only one who struggle to stay within the auras. I mean its not like we could really take advantage of this anyway if the range was wider as NH has only 3 options of bringing back models.

-Mmmmh new SCEs don't have piece of scenery too ^^ The piece of scenery isn't that important honestly.

-Agree we might not need it but since GW came out recently and said that all new armies are getting one now it seem odd to me that a company that appears to make no impulse decision and plan a head in years to come (if rumors be true) did not know about this when the Soulwars was released.

 

[Nevar]

2 hours ago, Alezya said:

The Black coach is still overpriced. It is strong, ok; but 280 pts is way too much. 

This only makes my point about the Mourngul living in sadness more valid no?

[Neck-Romantic]

Honestly one of the biggest heartaches was Garkorr having no rules whatsoever.

Even just a unit leader with an extra attack would have been something at least

[Grailstorm]

8 hours ago, Alezya said:

Yes you can. They only mention Knight of Shroud. There is no specification whether it be mounted or not.

I thought when it was normal text like this it referred to Warscroll name, while when it is bold it refers to Keyword? As in, Knight of Shrouds has its own Warscroll and this is what the Batallion uses.

Meanwhile, in the Stormcast book, you have a Batallion that mentions Paladins in bold, which means any of the Paladin units...

[Belakor]

Guys I'm pretty new to AoS and I have a nighthaunt army. When you say a nerf or a buff or change the rules of some unit what does it mean exactly? Every year they change all points values? Will we have to wait for the next Nighthaunt battletome? 

Thanks! 

[miguel_fernan]

20 minutes ago, Belakor said:

Guys I'm pretty new to AoS and I have a nighthaunt army. When you say a nerf or a buff or change the rules of some unit what does it mean exactly? Every year they change all points values?

 

Im only been playing since Soul Wars, but as far as I know, every year they release a book called "Generals Handbook". This year it will came around June if im nto mistaken. And in that book they add tables with the updated profiles and the cost in points for matched plays for all the allegiances. I think they can change rules, make some anotations, and yeah the more important is that they tweak the point costs.

[Greasygeek]

Welcome to AOS guys. Hope you stay for the long run🙂

Every year since 2016 about junu/july GW release a new rule/points tweak book called generals handbook (ghb). Much anticipated every year as it usually fix whatever rule loop holes were discovered and taken advantage of during that year. So the ghb doesn’t usually make changes to the core rules yet some factions find themself in a new position as one unit might have been weakened (called nerfed) and another 

Made stronger (buffed).

Udually however it a matter of points being tweaked more than anything else.

beside point ‘fixes’ the GHB usually has lots of exciting new ways and battleplans to play. 

In the world of gaming the term buff, nerf and debuff is used a lot. It goes something like this:

- Buff: something or action that makes a unit (or whatever) stronger like a +1 to hit.

nerf: an offical act that made my unit (or whatever) weaker.

debuff: an act made by one player to weaken his opponenets (whatever). Say enemy units within 6” of a nighthaunt units has their bravery lowered by -1 one. Thus they are debuffed. 

[Grailstorm]

Is there a WhatsApp chat for Nighthaunt?

[Neck-Romantic]

So has anyone tried running a foot KoS rather than a mounted one in the Shroudguard?

Wondering if giving 30 blades +1 to hit would mathhammer out better than 15 blades +1 attack

(Though admittedly keeping that many bases within 12 rather than one group within 18 would be rather difficult)

Edited March 2, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Franek]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and I'm excited to be a member of this ghastly big community :)

Giving a comment on previous topic before I introduce my own concern I think that KoS on foot is jst straight up garbage :D There really is no viable way to play it that I see (for example Olynder's spell give basically the same with another -1 to hit for the oppponent so why bother?).

I have a match with DoK (with Morathi) this Tuesday and I'd like you guys to give me some feedback on my list and perhaps comments on tactics. I have a fairly big (though not massive) collection of NH models to choose from (though not 60 reapers, sorry).

Without further to do, that's the list: 

Olynder (General) - Lifestealer

Vampire Lord (Pendand of the Fell Wind)

30 Reapers

3 units of 10 Chainrasps (screen)

2 Mournguls

20 Bladegheists

Chronomantic Cogs 

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh

 

2000pt

The tactics is quite simple: Olynder together with BGs and Mournguls stay in the underworlds. Turn one I try to cast Chronomantic Cogs with Vampire Lord and I just straight up run forwards with VL and chainrasps + reapers. If I succeed at casting Chrono I pull out from the underworlds my other half of the army (Olynder, Mournguls and BGs) and decide if I try to charge (depends if I get something of value with Olynder ranged attack next turn).

Later I just stay in one place and hopefully catch up with reapers and VL to bring Bladegheists back. Optionally I use bladegheists high movement to retreat on the back of the opponents main force and then chargé at them again. I can get my Reapers reasonably close to Olynder using NH Command Ability.

The main plan is to just bleed enemy out with regenerating monsters and -2 to hit together with a option to additional -2 from Geminids and Olynder. I don't think I will pull out Geminids quickly but they are nice to stay at the side of the board and act as a threat.

Big problem with this list is that I focus so much on debuffing oponent that I forget to have buffs myself (no Bladegheists reroll buff, no GoS) but I know my oponent is going to play Aelves with bucklers so I decided it's better to opt for a longer fight in hope to bleed them out since Mournguls heal each combat phase so thats 2d3 each turn. With 2'' attacks they are not so easy to deal with I believe.

Tell me guys what do you think.

[MrRoff]

1 hour ago, Franek said:

 

Olynder (General) - Lifestealer

Vampire Lord (Pendand of the Fell Wind)

30 Reapers

3 units of 10 Chainrasps (screen)

2 Mournguls

20 Bladegheist

Tell me guys what do you think.

Allies can't take artifacts, and dosent get the nighthaunt alliance traits, like DS/wave of terror : (Vampire Lord) 

Sadly mourngul is really bad for the price since it have been nerfed down into oblivion, you could take 1 and then take a black coach instead. 

When Olynder dies you lose some Nighthaunt traits like deathless spirits since allied heroes does not count. 

I think without any type of ressurect like GoS those 30 grims and 3 units of rasps will be mush quite quickly. 

GoS and ST is good support and aura buff heroes to consider. 

Remember also, Olynder is scary and they will try to kill her asap  and with only 7 wounds she will likely die fast to ranged or spells, and you'll be left without your commander and you have no other nighthaunt hero. 

Belive me I've used her lots 

[Franek]

The point with deathless spirits was very strong. Although I dont wanna change Mourngul for Black Coach since that’s the unit I wanna playtest 🧐

I kinda know Olynder is a Glass Cannon but I dont expect her to get sniped fast since I play vs DoK (did I miss something about this army? 🤔)

I changed Olynder and Geminids for 2 GoS (wychlight lantern, Cloaked in Shadow, Spectral Tether) and the other one (lifestealer).

Any thoughts now?

[Mutter]

19 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Wondering if giving 30 blades +1 to hit would mathhammer out better than 15 blades +1 attack

If those 30 had 2 attacks, it comes out the same.

If you had buffed them to 3 attacks, the 30 would come out ahead.

But max unit size is 20, so I'm not sure what you're thinking about?

[Neck-Romantic]

@MutterI run 2x units of 15. The mounted KoS only affects 1 unit. The foot KoS affects everyone in range

Edited March 3, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Mutter]

Ah, okay then. So the math stays the same. It's a wash ...

[grimgold]

So bumping up from 1k points to 2k points, which battalions should I be aiming for. I was thinking of the condemned, because that makes chain rasp hordes pretty killy, and I was tempted by the deathriders because the idea of the battalion is super cool. Also what allies should I think of including?