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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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I wonder if people are considering the Briar Queen in their list.

 

Considering the whole crew is 150 pts, it make a speedy wizard with a nice spell around 102 pts and 6 guys to hold objectives.

 

What's your take on them?

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5 hours ago, Ggg said:

I don't expect (hope!) change except the "cannot be taken in LoN".

 

The unit by itself is not problematic. It's the "bring it back for one CP" + "4 graveyards" that are problematic.

 

I just wish for a point overhaul in the ghb '19. Many nighthaunt units need to be re-evaluated in term of point cost. Or even battle roles (Glaivewraith stalker as BL).

Chainghast come to mind, as many people already discussed here. 

I don't think prohibiting the Grims in LoN is a good way to solve the problem, likewise a point increase would make them overshadowed by Bladegeists completely.

TBH I don't actually think they are as much of a problem as people give them all their hubbub over.  Maybe a point reduction and a removal of their rend would help.  That could let GraveGuard step into the role, especially if GraveGuard got a points reduction as well.  Grims are a battleline for Nighthaunt, and when they are basically just as good in many ways as our 'elite' Bladegeists there is more of an argument of a lack clear role position for the Grims.  When they are basically just amazing all around, it is hard to justify any other unit.

At the same time I do not think they are particularly cheap or overly good at anything.  It is just that they are good enough at most things for a good price, and the other options around are not different enough from them.

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In terms of fixing things, I think GW will only really mess around with points values and not much else. It seems to be their policy to almost never change anything aside from the points. Which is a bit arrogant IMO - it's as if they think the units they came up with are perfect and only require small points tweaks because they're "almost ideal". 

I for one would love to see more leadership altering things, so that our banshees and harridans become more effective. But Glaivewraiths seem somewhat of a poor concept. 

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Looking for some list feedback, please. Specifically debating between 2x10 for the bladegheists or 1x5 and 1x15 and whether I should track down another Darrakar for the mortality glass. Not sure I want to give up the lantern though so I can spread out summoning with Neferata. Thanks!

GoS with lantern (beacon)

Lord Executioner - general (aetherquartz brooch)

Knight of Shrouds on Steed (pendant)

Neferata

20x Grimghasts

3x Spirit hosts

3x Spirit hosts

3x Spirit hosts

10x Bladegheists

10x Bladegheists

Shroudguard

Execution Hoard

Palisade

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8 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorthIronjawz said:

Looking for some list feedback, please. Specifically debating between 2x10 for the bladegheists or 1x5 and 1x15 and whether I should track down another Darrakar for the mortality glass.

Go either 2x10 or 3x5, depending on what you want them to do. Three small units lets you snipe backline heroes, Stormcast ballistae, that lone objective being kept by a unit of five Revenants, while 2x10 gives you two solid smash units that can target more or less anything. Given your setup using Shroudguard and only 20 Grims, I think 2x10 is the best choice. 15 or 20 rarely pays off until you've lost nearly half your unit, at which point you're already in trouble.

As for Darrakar, you absolutely should. So underrated, especially if you run Chainguard.

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On 1/18/2019 at 7:51 PM, Ggg said:

I wonder if people are considering the Briar Queen in their list.

 

Considering the whole crew is 150 pts, it make a speedy wizard with a nice spell around 102 pts and 6 guys to hold objectives.

I had until i realised that this is a spellcaster that does nothing more than the signature spell (or any added spell)

 

I meant by that that unlke GoS that are 40 point more expesive, the Briar queen has no passive bonus. If you fail the easily-failable 7 casting roll, your caster is useless. Sure the spell is good but 7 is high and once you failed it, the queen is a sitting duck. For 40 more points, you have a spellcaster that can wield a magic item and has either a -1D6 aura charge or +1towound aura which is fenomenal. That beeing said, the queen offer an unseen spell.

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You arent taking her retinue into account though, or her quite nasty ranged/melee attacks.

You are getting 11 wounds for that 150 points, and she doesnt need to stay with her admittedly fragile squad. They can camp a lone objective while you toss her inside one of your main groups.

She can still cast Mystic Shield as well; which I find most people overlook its effectiveness with our 4+ ethereal save

Edited by Neck-Romantic

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6 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

You arent taking her retinue into account though, or her quite nasty ranged/melee attacks.

You are getting 11 wounds for that 150 points, and she doesnt need to stay with her admittedly fragile squad. They can camp a lone objective while you toss her inside one of your main groups.

She can still cast Mystic Shield as well; which I find most people overlook its effectiveness with our 4+ ethereal save

As well as an arcane bolt without 'wasting' a more important caster's spell.  I agree Mystic Shield is 90% of the time a better call, but with her shooting attack in addition she can very likely reach out and finish off buffing characters that are just out of melee range of the front line.  For instance those Guardian of Souls who are sitting just a little back giving out +1 to wound.

Her chainrasps are also perfect home field objective campers.

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Once you deduct the chainrasps she's roughly the cost of a Dreadblade.

You get 3 -3 rend shooting attacks, a 3" banshee dagger swing, Deathless spirits and all other Nighthaunt hero effects, and a Wizard.

Not too shabby at all

Edited by Neck-Romantic

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You can only cast mystic shield once per turn right? And not put it on all your units with different wizards? 

The exception is arcane bolt, which dosent have a cast limit? 

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Not sure on that one; but as all your other casters have their signature spells or NH allegisnce spells to be casting, Mystic Shield rarely makes an appearance. If youre worried about getting her vortex off, the shield is super easy to land

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Playing first game tomorrow night with nighthaunt. Seems like every aura is wholly within.   What’s the general strategy? Just blob up within your auras and hope you don’t move one model out?

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1 hour ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Playing first game tomorrow night with nighthaunt. Seems like every aura is wholly within.   What’s the general strategy? Just blob up within your auras and hope you don’t move one model out?

 Don’t plan on moving once you get in position, use characters to double lap units (you can spread out the unit, just make sure they’re fully within 12” etc). 

 

It means yoy end up playing slightly more risky with characters but you do get more out of them.

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Listening to Richie and Ian today and they seem to rate Bens list highly involving chainguard battallion and one other (in bens it’s the shrieked but they note you could use the bladegheist one or whatever). That’s over 200 points in battallions.  Two extra relics, lower drops, and more CP for rerolling charges and +1 attacks. Anyone have experience?

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7 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Listening to Richie and Ian today and they seem to rate Bens list highly involving chainguard battallion and one other (in bens it’s the shrieked but they note you could use the bladegheist one or whatever). That’s over 200 points in battallions.  Two extra relics, lower drops, and more CP for rerolling charges and +1 attacks. Anyone have experience?

I’ve actually been running Chainguard and Shroudguard recently myself. List comes in at 1950 so starting with three CPs has been great. Brooch, Pendant, and usually Wychlight for Artifacts. Have switched to Midnight Tome instead when I know my opponent doesn’t have a lot of dispels anyway. 

I love it. 

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16 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Listening to Richie and Ian today and they seem to rate Bens list highly involving chainguard battallion and one other (in bens it’s the shrieked but they note you could use the bladegheist one or whatever). That’s over 200 points in battallions.  Two extra relics, lower drops, and more CP for rerolling charges and +1 attacks. Anyone have experience?

Could you provide a link for the podcast you are refering to? And thanks!

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22 minutes ago, miguel_fernan said:

Could you provide a link for the podcast you are refering to? And thanks!

http://podcast.justplaygames.uk/  The Nighthaunt list particular is closer to the 1 hour 30 minute mark, somewhere in there I believe. On the UK Master List Review.

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Hi, I will be starting a Nighthaunt army over the year in some Community event (like a Tale of 4 Warlords… except we will be more of a dozen).
I have two lists in mind that involve the same heroes and 2*20 blobs of Chainrasps. It's a basis I would like to keep. I thought about taking a battalion to reduce the number of drops and improve the efficiency of this Chainrasp core. So I've come up with two lists :

NUMBER 1 :
LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Wychlight Lantern
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind
UNITS
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (160)
BATTALIONS
Chainguard (120)

NUMBER 2 :
LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Wychlight Lantern
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind
UNITS
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
2 x Chainghasts (80)
BATTALIONS
The Condemned (150)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

It won't be a very competitive event. So my question is : which one of these two lists is the most effective - without being overall overkill of perfect ?

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3 hours ago, Kokoshi said:

It won't be a very competitive event. So my question is : which one of these two lists is the most effective - without being overall overkill of perfect ?

I would probly lean towards List #2 myself, as I haven't had much luck with banshees without pouring a lot of CPs into them to give them more attacks, and lots of buffs. Only thing I would change is using a Midnight Tome over the Pendant to give yourself a second caster for the Pendulum to come out of. I think the GoS would be better off rezzing every turn and casting Shademist when its not needed.

That being said, I tend to look far more for the competitive side of things.

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On 1/22/2019 at 4:29 PM, CanHammer-darren said:

Listening to Richie and Ian today and they seem to rate Bens list highly involving chainguard battallion and one other (in bens it’s the shrieked but they note you could use the bladegheist one or whatever). That’s over 200 points in battallions.  Two extra relics, lower drops, and more CP for rerolling charges and +1 attacks. Anyone have experience?

Way back in this thread I debated with several others about building a NH list like this. In the end, it really came down to play style. I haven't finished assembling 2000 pts of Nighthaunt yet, but I do plan to run double battalions. In the end, it really boils down to the following thoughts for me:

Command points. Nighthaunt really need them to be successful. Re-rolling charges, teleporting units, and +1 attacks are all really important to winning a game. You can get extra command points with battalions or by running a list that is light on points. If you run a list that is light on points, which also grants you an opportunity at a triumph. I really do think you need to do one or the other to be successful.

Characters. One of the problems with the battalions are how they limit you character choice. Most battalions rely on the fragile character to stay alive. The ones that don't rely on the character staying alive feature less optimal characters. However, the battalions give you an artefact. So while a Cairn Wraith and a Tomb Banshee aren't great, I do think with an artefact (Midnight Tome, Pendant of the Fell Moon, Aetherquartz Brooch, etc.) that they are suddenly useful.

Battleline. If you take double battalions, it forces your battleline quite a bit. There's only one battalion that features Reapers, Spirit Hosts, and Hexwraiths while Chainrasps get two. Only the Spirit Host battalion allows you to fulfill your battleline requirements. So can you find a battalion combo that lets you take battleline you're comfortable with?

Drops. Lowering your drop count is an important part of taking two battalions, and if you're not trying accomplish a low drop count I'm not really sure that two battalions is the way to go. So you have to make that work as well. This really boils it down to low drops versus running different support characters. If you want a Vampire Lord, Guardian of Souls, named character, Spirit Torment, Dreadblade Harrow... you're better off just skipping the battalions so you can have your characters and your units.

 

I kind of mentioned this, but my two favorite battalions are Death Stalkers and Shrieker Host because their effects don't rely on a certain character surviving. I also think they are both nice complements to the army. All of my lists feature one of those. Chainguard and Shroudguard are probably my favorites to pair with those two because they give me a character I want (Reikenor/GoS) and are decent even though they do rely on a character surviving.

This is all theoretical from me though as I have only tried out individual battalions at 1000 pts at this point.

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Made a list for my Nighthaunt made with Mourngul (love that model!).
So my idea here is basically to deep strike force with 2 Mourngul, 30 Grimghast Reapers, 1 GoS and 1 Spirit Torment and having the rest box my side from deep strike and protect my “boarder”. 😉 what you guys reckon? All the advice i can get is helpful!

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Spirit Torment (120)
- General
- Trait: Cloaked in Shadow 
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)

Behemoths
Mourngul (300)
Mourngul (300)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

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2 minutes ago, ModerTherese said:

Made a list for my Nighthaunt made with Mourngul (love that model!).

Gotta love the mourngul! 

Got one for Christmas from my gf, absolutely love it! 

It's so sad it's been nerfed down to oblivion, let's pray for some love from gw this year to make the mourngul great again! ❤️

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It's been nerfed heavily but it does still pack a punch.

People math hammer it to be less usefull pound for point than reapers... but tbh what in the entire book can beat reapers anyway

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Almost done, what do you guys think?
I'm really new to painting, just started a couple of months ago. CC welcomed.

IMG_20190116_150915.jpg

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