AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Espy85]

the old Frightful Touch was editable, so they changed it by adding the word "non-editable", but have not yet updated the throne, in fact the rule speaks of 6+, if it was not editable would have written only 6, or 6 natural.
The mortal wounds on the roll to wound come from the command trait Killing Blow. It's the Saccharine Globet combo plus Killing Blow that makes the model overpower.
This is what the ability of the throne says. I've copied it now from the warscroll which is currently on the GW site:
 ABILITIES
Frightful Touch: Each time you make a hit roll
of 6+ for the Spectral Host's Ethereal Weapons,
that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound instead of the
normal damage (do not make a wound or save roll).

Any abilities of any model that says 6+ can be modified by objects or command traits, which is why they now start adding the word "unmodified" or "Natural".
To say the Skyfire today at 6 natural do d3 mortal wounds, but in the previous edition could make them to 5+ thanks to the Tzangor Shaman that +1 to hit.
It is only in this edition that they are starting to put a stop to this type of changes, the Hexwraith and the spirit host in the old Warscroll did not have the words "Unmodified" and "Natural", with the command ability of the Knight of Shrouds make mortal wounds on every 5+ to hit, that's why they changed the description. But for all the models with previous and not updated Warscrolls there is still the possibility to modify that 6+.

[knightish]

16 minutes ago, Espy85 said:

the old Frightful Touch was editable, so they changed it by adding the word "non-editable", but have not yet updated the throne, in fact the rule speaks of 6+, if it was not editable would have written only 6, or 6 natural.
The mortal wounds on the roll to wound come from the command trait Killing Blow. It's the Saccharine Globet combo plus Killing Blow that makes the model overpower.
This is what the ability of the throne says. I've copied it now from the warscroll which is currently on the GW site:
 ABILITIES
Frightful Touch: Each time you make a hit roll
of 6+ for the Spectral Host's Ethereal Weapons,
that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound instead of the
normal damage (do not make a wound or save roll).

Any abilities of any model that says 6+ can be modified by objects or command traits, which is why they now start adding the word "unmodified" or "Natural".
To say the Skyfire today at 6 natural do d3 mortal wounds, but in the previous edition could make them to 5+ thanks to the Tzangor Shaman that +1 to hit.
It is only in this edition that they are starting to put a stop to this type of changes, the Hexwraith and the spirit host in the old Warscroll did not have the words "Unmodified" and "Natural", with the command ability of the Knight of Shrouds make mortal wounds on every 5+ to hit, that's why they changed the description. But for all the models with previous and not updated Warscrolls there is still the possibility to modify that 6+.

^ this is correct.

However you will run into a couple of issue.
First: Your 5+ to hit mortal wounds will be removed from your wound dice lot. 

Second this will get errata'd soon is my guess, so I wouldn't go purchasing models around the mechanic. 

In the meantime this will still work, as you are stacking a Artifact & a trait, which both play off each other. 
The same way various Nurgle abilities etc stack to create improved likelihood of various  outcomes.

The key thing to take away here is:

Does the ability description say unmodified or not. 
IF not that ability can be modified to your advantage or disadvantage. 


Happy to told otherwise, but based on everything I have read so far in the thread ^ is how it should work.
 

[knightish]

That all said it says it applies to the bearer, which will be the Vamp Queen, not the whole Coven thrown.
So she will get the above bonus's but the rest of the Throne wont. Same goes with Killing Blow I believe. 

Best way to think about it is like a mount. 
The Queen is the hero / lord etc and gets the buffs.

The rest are just a very large very angry mount

[Espy85]

I agree with you, but it is an interpretation, it is not a rule, there is no warscroll of the queen vampire, there is no way without a faq to distinguish the hero from the mount, but this is an old problem, the throne he has been carrying it for two years, and I assure you that it is not so simple, in fact it has not yet been solved. Precisely for this reason I would avoid getting lost in the matter, I am convinced that soon we will have the answers we lack.
Among other things this is the topic of the Nigthaunt, we are OT. I opened a post a few weeks ago on the subject, who wants can use that to talk about it.

[MrRoff]

38 minutes ago, knightish said:

That all said it says it applies to the bearer, which will be the Vamp Queen, not the whole Coven thrown.
So she will get the above bonus's but the rest of the Throne wont. Same goes with Killing Blow I believe. 

Best way to think about it is like a mount. 
The Queen is the hero / lord etc and gets the buffs.

The rest are just a very large very angry mount

The only problem for Coven throne, Mortis Engine, and so on, is that the "throne" isn't a mount on the warscroll, and therefor a part of the heroes attack.
Haven't been fixed in an errat'a or FAQ yet.

 

Has been alot of arguing in tournaments about this.

Edited November 19, 2018 by MrRoff

[knightish]

2 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

The only problem for Coven throne, Mortis Engine, and so on, is that the "throne" isn't a mount on the warscroll, and therefor a part of the heroes attack.
Haven't been fixed in an errat'a or FAQ yet.

 

Has been alot of arguing in tournaments about this.

Well isn't that lovely of GW to do this to us

Fair fair, well assuming all the above is correct, then yeah on paper the Throne can totally stack those abilities. 

I feel it goes against the rules as intended.. but that is a whole other kettle of fish that I feel should be left unopened as when we get into intended the sky the limit.

Anyway back to Nighthaunt. 

Who here has used the ghost horse small based guys. Glaivewraith stalkers.
My mate is convinced they have a place as hero harassers and back-line harassment units, that can yoink objectives and 'kill' weak heros like mages etc

And at only 60pts they arn't too hard to slot into a list.

Anyone run a unit or two to any effect?

[MrRoff]

2 minutes ago, knightish said:

Well isn't that lovely of GW to do this to us

Fair fair, well assuming all the above is correct, then yeah on paper the Throne can totally stack those abilities. 

I feel it goes against the rules as intended.. but that is a whole other kettle of fish that I feel should be left unopened as when we get into intended the sky the limit.

Anyway back to Nighthaunt. 

Who here has used the ghost horse small based guys. Glaivewraith stalkers.
My mate is convinced they have a place as hero harassers and back-line harassment units, that can yoink objectives and 'kill' weak heros like mages etc

And at only 60pts they arn't too hard to slot into a list.

Anyone run a unit or two to any effect?

I've tried to have them in my list but it's 4 for 60p, or 8 for 120p.. Would rather take a unit of grims or spirit hosts. 

Glaives have no rend, bad speed, +4 +3, 1d. Grims are clearly much better in every way, with only 20p more for a unit of 10

Glaives just die and isn't worth a GoS spell to bring back 

 

[knightish]

Ow another questions.

If we run a NH army with NH allegiance and we ally in a Necromancer  / Vampire lord.
Do the spells and abilities of the N and V work on our units?

Specifically the spell the nerco has VH for the double pile in and attack and the VL resing D3 models to 3 units with X?

I can't see a reason why not, but I have not read the allies rules in depth yet as I previously have not considered them. 

[adreal]

I run a unit of glaivewraith stalkers, not because I want to or believe they are hidden gems, but because I'm a single parent and made most of the army out of starter sets.

They do get to reroll hits when they charge or are charged, which is okay.....

For 60 points to tie up a cannon or something like that they arent bad, but if they fail a charge they are very slow, and if you are using them in this role, they are filling up a spot a better unit could have taken.

 

4 glaivewraiths or 5 bladeghiests? Sure the bladeghiests are 30 points more, but hit better, get more attacks when they charge and have rend, all the glaivewraiths have is the re roll to hit ability

Edited November 19, 2018 by adreal

[MrRoff]

28 minutes ago, knightish said:

Ow another questions.

If we run a NH army with NH allegiance and we ally in a Necromancer  / Vampire lord.
Do the spells and abilities of the N and V work on our units?

Specifically the spell the nerco has VH for the double pile in and attack and the VL resing D3 models to 3 units with X?

I can't see a reason why not, but I have not read the allies rules in depth yet as I previously have not considered them. 

Sadly we can't ally in Necromancer since deathmages aren't allies for Nighthaunts, same with mortis engine.

If the vampire is Soulblight then yes we can ally in it and as long as the spell/ ability you want to use targets "friendly death" units, and not deathrattle/vampires it would work just fine.
 

[mrbedlam]

38 minutes ago, MrRoff said:

Sadly we can't ally in Necromancer since deathmages aren't allies for Nighthaunts, same with mortis engine.

If the vampire is Soulblight then yes we can ally in it and as long as the spell/ ability you want to use targets "friendly death" units, and not deathrattle/vampires it would work just fine.
 

also important are phrases like SUMMONABLE. Since most of our units are SUMMONABLE then Deathly Invocations works on them. Which is pretty awesome when you ally in one of the Mortarchs or the Coven Throne or Vamp Lord.

[MrRoff]

4 minutes ago, mrbedlam said:

also important are phrases like SUMMONABLE. Since most of our units are SUMMONABLE then Deathly Invocations works on them. Which is pretty awesome when you ally in one of the Mortarchs or the Coven Throne or Vamp Lord.

Exactly

I often ally in Coven Throne, and thinking about getting a vampire lord.

[knightish]

18 hours ago, MrRoff said:

Sadly we can't ally in Necromancer since deathmages aren't allies for Nighthaunts, same with mortis engine.

If the vampire is Soulblight then yes we can ally in it and as long as the spell/ ability you want to use targets "friendly death" units, and not deathrattle/vampires it would work just fine.
 

Ahh fair call. That did seem like an awesome combo that people were overlooking.

Where do I find the allies rules? Is it just the key words or in the battle tome? I will admit I have not read that as much as I should

Nvm found it

Thanks guys!

Edited November 20, 2018 by knightish

[MrRoff]

4 hours ago, knightish said:

Ahh fair call. That did seem like an awesome combo that people were overlooking.

Where do I find the allies rules? Is it just the key words or in the battle tome? I will admit I have not read that as much as I should

Nvm found it

Thanks guys!

Yeah it would really been a good combo, that's why people are playing LoN with 30 grimghasts + necro 

In our battle tome you'll find almost everything you'll need, don't forget to read the FAQ, errata. Also 1d4 Chan has almost everything but some of the rules there hasn't been worded correctly or changed in a good while. 

Oh, and always use the Age of sigmar warscroll app, to know changes to warscrolls, it updates regularly. DON'T trust battlescribe, not even for point value for units, me and my friend found lots that hadn't been changed on it. 

Hope you'll like our wiggly ghost bois

And all praise papa nagash 🖤💜🖤💜

Edited November 20, 2018 by MrRoff

[miguel_fernan]

Hi there everyone!

 

First of all sorry if this kind of question doesnt go here. Im happy with my nighthaunt collection this far, but since my LGS is having a fair discount for black friday on thursday Im thinking about the stuff they have in there as potential purchases. So far I have Soul Wars content, 20 aditional chainrasp, 30 aditional reapers, 20 revenants, the black coach, reikenor and 1 dreadblade harrows.  Also, I have the Malignant sorcery spells and Vampire lord on zombie dragon and 2 morghasts that I picked up second hand really cheap, as I loved the models and considered them for a potential legion of nagash lists. Most of games in my store are 1500 points as most of the players are kind of noobs like me (only playing since soul wars) and not many people have big collections. I have yet to play a 2k game.

 

So what Im looking for? Well, store has malignant and skeleton start collectings, and Lady Olynder as the big items im considering.  They also have nighthaunt spells but ive been said they are not worthy, and the harridans unit. So how good is olynder, is she worth to pick it up? Because I think reikenor plus cogs combo seems better. And hexwraiths or Spirit Hosts, are good as battleline? Because I could just consider Arkham and the hexwraiths plus the skeleton for a potential 40 man unit for nagash. Ive read the coven throne discussion here, so another potential and interesting item to consider the malignant box.

 

 So what do you guys think? And thanks in advance for all the answers!

[MrRoff]

28 minutes ago, miguel_fernan said:

So what do you guys think? And thanks in advance for all the answers!

Hello and welcome! All questions are welcomed here!

In my opinion Lady Olynder is a really great pick point for point value, 2" range with her staff, 2 spells, 1d6 damage ability/round + 1d6 heal or damage once per game, 1d3 damage bravery aura/wave, and her uniqe spell is really good if you combo it with Shademist giving your opponent -2 to hit your grims for example. *Protect the queen!*
Now, she is a really good pick in a Nighthaunt army, but sadly if you're gonna run a LoN there's better options.
First of, only the heroes from the soulwars box can be added in a LoN army without beeing an ally, so if you want Olynder, or Craven King or any other nighthaunt hero you'll need to ally them in, and i don't know what rules you use when playing a 1500p game, me and my friends now go by the 2000p rules when we play 1500p games.

I started by getting an "Start collecting Malignant's" and i love the hexwraiths, i have a unit of 10, fast speed, fly, etheral, frightful touch, rend, 2wounds.
And the mortis egine is (in my opinion) really ****** great in a GHoN army, only 180p giving your spellcasters +1 to cast spells and just being an annoying with its high wound, great mobility and Wail of the damned. Or you can play it as an Coven throne, but it's 260p.
Spirithosts on the other hand is... ok? If you only got 3 it's not worth it, but a unit of 6 might be, 36 attacks, mortal wounds on 6, hit on +5, wound on +4 no rend 1 = avrage damage 8~ (depending on target units save) if you can attack with all 6 on the same target, 120p for 3, not the best not the worst.

I don't own Arkhan (yet) but from what i've seen and heared, he's really good to have in a LoN with wizards and skelle bros, knowing all death wizard spells within 18" and his command ability to extend spells so he's never in the danger zone himself, and ofcourse the Curse of the years spell with the fixed FAQ is really strong "if you are lucky".

I'm a noob myself so don't lissen to much on what i have to say, but i really really love this game and already spent way more time than i should reading, playing and watching about it.

Hope something in this wall of text helped!
Also, as always sorry for my English, it's my third language.
And don't forget, whatever you choose (aslong as it's death) Papa Nagash will be proud!

Edited November 20, 2018 by MrRoff

[Neck-Romantic]

Im still pretty butthurt the Mortis Engine wasnt retconned to be included in Nighthaunt. 

I need that +1 to cast

[mrbedlam]

33 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Im still pretty butthurt the Mortis Engine wasnt retconned to be included in Nighthaunt. 

I need that +1 to cast

with all 3 of our spell casters? lol

[Neck-Romantic]

Yes.

[MrRoff]

17 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Im still pretty butthurt the Mortis Engine wasnt retconned to be included in Nighthaunt. 

I need that +1 to cast

 

16 hours ago, mrbedlam said:

with all 3 of our spell casters? lol

 

Nighthaunts would really need a cheap (in cash and points) behemoth tho

[mrbedlam]

5 hours ago, MrRoff said:

 

 

Nighthaunts would really need a cheap (in cash and points) behemoth tho

Agreed though it would be wierd to have a Necro driven ghost buggy when Necromancers can't ally.

[Fallencarcass]

I’m new to Nighthaunt and Age of Sigmar in general. I’m hoping to play a couple of fun 1k games within the month, but I’d like some advice.

Which of the following lists would be more fun to play as and against. My friend will likely be playing chaos demons of some kind.

List1: olynder, 6x spirit hosts, 6x spirit hosts, black coach

List 2: Mounted Knight of Shrouds, Dreadblade Harrow, Dreadblade Harrow, Reikenor, 6x spirit hosts, 6x spirit hosts

[MrRoff]

5 minutes ago, Fallencarcass said:

I’m new to Nighthaunt and Age of Sigmar in general. I’m hoping to play a couple of fun 1k games within the month, but I’d like some advice.

Which of the following lists would be more fun to play as and against. My friend will likely be playing chaos demons of some kind.

List1: olynder, 6x spirit hosts, 6x spirit hosts, black coach

List 2: Mounted Knight of Shrouds, Dreadblade Harrow, Dreadblade Harrow, Reikenor, 6x spirit hosts, 6x spirit hosts

Just at first glance i would say, don't put Olynder against him in a 1000p game haha
But both setups would work, all those spirit hosts and with the traits Ruler of the spirit hosts will be hard to fight trough haha!

[Tropical Ghost General]

11 hours ago, MrRoff said:

Nighthaunts would really need a cheap (in cash and points) behemoth tho

The BC is expensive in cash but it's a stunning model. I'm halfway through painting mine and it's actually awesome to paint and I hate painting. Points wise 280pts for a behemoth is on the cheaper end of the behemoth spectrum. But what spooks really need is a behemoth with the hero keyword. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:03 PM, miguel_fernan said:

 So what do you guys think? And thanks in advance for all the answers!

Do it for the coven throne if it's cheap. You don't have to stick the top on and can change between the three models that it makes.