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RuneBrush

AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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7 minutes ago, Shinzra said:

Afternoon all, looking at making a competitive Nighthaunt list, I have come up with the following which I think looked quite good, but wanted some feedback on how it could be improved or just general thoughts.

Appreciate any feedback

+++ Nighthaunt Competitive  (Age of Sigmar) [1980pts] +++

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Death: Legions of Nagash and Nighthaunt) ++

+ Leader +

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern: Chill Blade

Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

Spirit Torment

+ Battleline +

Chainrasp Horde: 40 Chainrasps

Grimghast Reapers: 20 Grimghast Reapers

Grimghast Reapers: 20 Grimghast Reapers

Spirit Hosts: 9 Spirit Hosts (Maybe split into units of 3?)

+ Behemoth +

Black Coach

+ Allegiance +

Alliegiance: Allegiance: Nighthaunt

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost
 

What your artefacts and lore spells and you could maybe integrate shackles or maelstrom endless spell

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18 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said:

What your artefacts and lore spells and you could maybe integrate shackles or maelstrom endless spell

I would probably take ruler of the spirit hosts trait and make the torment the general due to the higher wound, and then give the beacon of nagashizzar to the guardian of souls.

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1 hour ago, ianob said:

The question you have to ask yourself, is "is getting these units into combat easily actually worth it if they dont do enough whilst they're there?" and unfortunately the answer is no. Hexwraiths are just overcosted for what they do.

If this was your army's only way of getting a T1 charge I'd be right there with you. But it isn't, your whole army can deepstrike and charge on a 7 with cogs, so deepstrike some better units instead!

I do not dissagree with the assessment of the Deathriders Battalion, as it would require too much investment for what it gives you.

However, we cannot deep-strike all of our forces, and Hexwraiths -are- the only unit that can succeed in a T1 charge if they are not deep-struck.  Go second, wait for the enemy to advance, then deepstrike your flanking elements and use the swift moving Hexes to charge the front line.  So far this has not let me down.  It allows for my entire army to hit on T1, instead of filtering in units over the course of the game.

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9 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I do not dissagree with the assessment of the Deathriders Battalion, as it would require too much investment for what it gives you.

However, we cannot deep-strike all of our forces, and Hexwraiths -are- the only unit that can succeed in a T1 charge if they are not deep-struck.  Go second, wait for the enemy to advance, then deepstrike your flanking elements and use the swift moving Hexes to charge the front line.  So far this has not let me down.  It allows for my entire army to hit on T1, instead of filtering in units over the course of the game.

Deep striking 2 big blob units and 2 heroes to support is really all we need, so you just need 4 units on the ground to not deep strike for that to happen.  I chose 2 coaches, a min chain rasp unit for backfield objective holding, and reikenor since he is pretty freaking fast as is.

Plus, you're correct that them going first can work out marvelously if you feel the need to have them come towards you (for me, into charge range of both coaches and reikenor most likely).

An alpha strike list like this is nice too because your opponent is less likely to make you go first, which means you have a zero percent chance of getting double turned bottom of 1 into the top of 2, which is literally my worst fear in all of sigmar.

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12 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I do not dissagree with the assessment of the Deathriders Battalion, as it would require too much investment for what it gives you.

However, we cannot deep-strike all of our forces, and Hexwraiths -are- the only unit that can succeed in a T1 charge if they are not deep-struck.  Go second, wait for the enemy to advance, then deepstrike your flanking elements and use the swift moving Hexes to charge the front line.  So far this has not let me down.  It allows for my entire army to hit on T1, instead of filtering in units over the course of the game.

You can DS all of your army that matters if you build your army properly. Reikenor will start on the board (for cogs), so will Chainrasps (screen/objective holder) as well as other bits (a midfield unit of Grims, another support hero, a Dreadblade harrow, Glaivewraiths in Death Stalker, etc). You should be popping 3-4 units up in most army builds.

Also, they're not the only unit that can success in a T1 charge. Many new missions are 18" deployment distance, which means 8" move + a 10" charge (8 with cogs) on T1 to charge. Not reliable, but easily doable and happens a lot (especially if you do it with multiple units). I've had good T1s with Glaivewraiths wiping 10 man objective sitters and so on.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are better ways to play than taking "bad" units to get around a problem that you should be able to solve in list building.

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13 minutes ago, ianob said:

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are better ways to play than taking "bad" units to get around a problem that you should be able to solve in list building.

That is purely competitive approach.

But there is another approach with the same rule: build an army, include the things you like because it feels cool, or because it looks cool or both, then try your best to win or "to get around a problem that you should be able to solve in list building.". The list building is not always MATH, it include sometimes HEART. Example: I love the mourngul. Not the best unit. Problem: build the best list with him. Same with Olynder and the king. etc...

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28 minutes ago, ianob said:

You can DS all of your army that matters if you build your army properly. Reikenor will start on the board (for cogs), so will Chainrasps (screen/objective holder) as well as other bits (a midfield unit of Grims, another support hero, a Dreadblade harrow, Glaivewraiths in Death Stalker, etc). You should be popping 3-4 units up in most army builds.

Also, they're not the only unit that can success in a T1 charge. Many new missions are 18" deployment distance, which means 8" move + a 10" charge (8 with cogs) on T1 to charge. Not reliable, but easily doable and happens a lot (especially if you do it with multiple units). I've had good T1s with Glaivewraiths wiping 10 man objective sitters and so on.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are better ways to play than taking "bad" units to get around a problem that you should be able to solve in list building.

Everything also depends on the Meta as well.  My local meta is not the hyper competitive tourney scene, but at the same time I have people who bring 4 void scrolls, or have three of those 6 MW elephants.

My primary force, and the one I have been using for the past year, has been made up of 15 Hexwraiths and supporting Spirit Hosts.

A block of 15 Hexwraiths are extremely good at closing the distance and charging the enemy through normal means, and if the enemy is even closer they can make use of their Spectral Hunters rule to cause more wounds.

I suppose my point is that Hexwraiths are not in the 'bad' column of units.  I would say they are in the top 3rd of our options, especially as a battle line option, and especially for a break-neck center line who can chew on even heavily armored foes.

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52 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

Can use mounted KoS as well.

Even though the batallion requirements are knight of shrouds rather than Knight Of Shrouds?

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Hey guys,

 

today I had my second match with Nighthaunt, and first with 2000 points. We played the triumph & treachery battleplan and my opponents werde Beastclaw Raiders and Stormcast Eternals.

I played following army list:
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact :  Midnight Tome  
- Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Spectral Tether
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Beacon of Nagashizzar
Lord Executioner (80)
Spirit Torment (120)
Spirit Torment (120)
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320) - Allies
UNITS
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
8 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (120)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (80)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
BATTALIONS
Chainguard (120)
TOTAL: 2000/2000     EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1     WOUNDS: 118
LEADERS: 6/6    BATTLELINES: 4 (3+)    BEHEMOTHS: 1/4    ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2    ALLIES: 320/400

Besides some rather stupid mistakes at deepstriking and charging, the list played out pretty well. Arkhan managed to kill the BR general with his curse of ages in the first round and got me my first victory points from my secret objective. The Stormcast player with his 3 Ballistas was quite frustrating, and he got the win with 27 VP, opposide to my 25. Last but not least the Beastclaw player only got 11 VP, so I´m pretty happy with the outcome of the match.
My biggest problem so far is to keep an eye on all the buffs, proccs and synergies of the Nighthaunt. Sometimes I forgot that I can reroll to wound rolls and such things, but I guess this will get better the more I play.

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On 7/29/2018 at 11:14 AM, Nevar said:

Again I have to point out...

The only pricing that is poor is the Chainrasps so far.  Everything else has been really well priced.

$45 named characters.  That is par for the course or even cheap in comparison to most GW characters.

$25 for two Dreadblades.  That is outstanding pricing.

$45 for 12 Myrmourns is surprisingly cheap especially with the fancy base work and such.

$45 for Grimghasts is par for the course.

$115 is not really that expensive for what the Black Coach is.  It makes me only likely to ever have one, but like most other centerpieces it is priced like one and is larger and more complex than even Nagash.

$40 Spirit Torment box is well priced -if- you want all three models.  Spirit Torment is a hero we could easily have paid $25-$30 for him, look at the Knight of Shrouds or other single hero models.  +$10 for the two Chaingasts is not exactly terrible.  Mind you, I think this is expensive, but it is not like it is wildly out of GW's normal pricing scheme.

The only Nighthaunt unit that is terribly priced so far is the Chainrasps.  Perhaps it is a mistake.

Same thing happened with Stormcast, everything either fair or better except the Lord Arcanum on Tauralon. It's about twice the price its should be, way out of left field. 

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6 hours ago, Spears said:

Even though the batallion requirements are knight of shrouds rather than Knight Of Shrouds?

I'm not sure what distinction you are trying to make. Both warscrolls have the keyword KNIGHT OF SHROUDS.

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How have people been finding the named characters. Love the Lady O model and rules but she is quite a lot more than Reikenor who has good flexibility 

 

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2 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I'm not sure what distinction you are trying to make. Both warscrolls have the keyword KNIGHT OF SHROUDS.

If the battalion refers to KNIGHT OF SHROUDS then either can be used.  If it refers to Knight of Shrouds, then only the model that is named "Knight of Shrouds" can be used.

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2 hours ago, Richelieu said:

If the battalion refers to KNIGHT OF SHROUDS then either can be used.  If it refers to Knight of Shrouds, then only the model that is named "Knight of Shrouds" can be used.

There is precedence based on some of the Stormcast battalions from the previous book. Vanguard Wing (the one we all know and love) required units of Prosecutors. There was no unit simply called Prosecutors then. Its possible the tiny font subtext found on some units is meant to be just that, subtext. At least that's how Stormcast players played it for well over a year at the highest tournament levels.

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5 hours ago, DarkTrooperZero said:

How have people been finding the named characters. Love the Lady O model and rules but she is quite a lot more than Reikenor who has good flexibility 

 

I have found the names characters to be hit or miss. The custom spells are great but overall they are very Squishy and expensive for the points. 

The fact that only one can be taken in a battalion makes using them competitively very difficult, as you want minimum drops. 

As I get deeper and deeper into list building now that all our models are released (or close to release), I am finding that I'd rather spend less points on pricey heroes and put them more into maxing out our squads of rasps and grims and bladegheists. 

My meta is not hyper competitive but it is really strong and weak, friendly game lists do not survive well at all. I have all the current models, will get all the remaining models, but for tournament play only a few key units will ever see the table. 

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4 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

There is precedence based on some of the Stormcast battalions from the previous book. Vanguard Wing (the one we all know and love) required units of Prosecutors. There was no unit simply called Prosecutors then. Its possible the tiny font subtext found on some units is meant to be just that, subtext. At least that's how Stormcast players played it for well over a year at the highest tournament levels.

That’s also an issue of our own Chainguard battalion. It requires a Guardian of Souls which doesn’t exist unless you ignore the subtext ‘with Nightmare lantern’ or ‘with Mortality Glass’.

We know both can be used due to the wording of the battalion rules but if we still to the strict naming convention the battalion can’t be used.

Luckily the rules cover this.

“The organisation section of a battalion lists the titles or keywords for the units it can or must include. If an entry is the title of a unit, any unit with that title can be used (you can ignore sub-headers under the title unless they are included in the entry for the unit).”

So unless the battalion states the unit title with the subtext you can ignore the subtext.

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hi guys, I have a doubt, can you use the legion black coach in the nighthaunts? in the official app is inserted in the nighthaunt faction.

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Craven King - Who's got experience with him?

Good, bad, worth the points, lackluster, etc...

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10 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

It has the Nighthaunt keyword, so yes.

Thanks.

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After some brainstorming, I decided to make a battalionless list. Reason is, in my opinion, that the only competitive battalion is Shroudguard and Deathriders and Chainguard are playable.  Also, these battalions doesn't lessen dramatically the army drops, so withour further ado, there is my last iteration on 2000 pt battalionless Nighthaunt:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt (2000 pts)

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General,  Ruler of the Spirit Hosts , Midnight Tome  (Soul Cage)
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
-  (Shademist)
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Units
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Wounds: 141
 

Some thoughts about the list:

- Probably going first almost every game, deepstrike helps to lessen the impact on shooting.

- 2 Mages and Banshees for dispelling should be enough magic.

- Nice variety of units (not a boring looking army).

- Mortal wounds (Spirit hosts, Hexwraiths).

- Fast units: Most of the army can at least move 8", deepstrike, Dreadblade Harrow, all good for objective grabbing.

- Damage: Bladegheist buffed by Spirit Torment, Grimghast Reapers against hordes, full unit of Banshees (can be buffed with mKos command ability)

- Anvils: 40 Chainrasp are hard to delete from an objective.

 

Any glaring weakness you can see? How would you improve it? I'm planning my last buys, would love some opinions on the list. 

Edited by Garxia

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18 minutes ago, Garxia said:

After some brainstorming, I decided to make a battalionless list. Reason is, in my opinion, that the only competitive battalion is Shroudguard and Deathriders and Chainguard are playable.  Also, these battalions doesn't lessen dramatically the army drops, so withour further ado, there is my last iteration on 2000 pt battalionless Nighthaunt:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt (2000 pts)

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General,  Ruler of the Spirit Hosts , Midnight Tome  (Soul Cage)
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
-  (Shademist)
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Units
20 x Bladegheist Revenants (320)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Wounds: 141
 

Some thoughts about the list:

- Probably going first almost every game, deepstrike helps to lessen the impact on shooting.

- 2 Mages and Banshees for dispelling should be enough magic.

- Nice variety of units (not a boring looking army).

- Mortal wounds (Spirit hosts, Hexwraiths).

- Fast units: Most of the army can at least move 8", deepstrike, Dreadblade Harrow, all good for objective grabbing.

- Damage: Bladegheist buffed by Spirit Torment, Grimghast Reapers against hordes, full unit of Banshees (can be buffed with mKos command ability)

- Anvils: 40 Chainrasp are hard to delete from an objective.

 

Any glaring weakness you can see? How would you improve it? I'm planning my last buys, would love some opinions on the list. 

I think Reiknor and Cogs are really important for Nighthaunt. He makes sure that Cogs goes off, and Cogs makes our 9" charges as easy as 7 inch charges. I also like the Dreadblade Harrow as a general more than the KoS. His native teleport ability, combined with the command ability gained for being the general, I see as a very potent combo.

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1 hour ago, Tooooon said:

Craven King - Who's got experience with him?

Good, bad, worth the points, lackluster, etc...

I've run him in this list a few times, he came from the grave with bladeghiests and tormentor both times and did fairly well, game 1 he smashed a unit of blood crushers, game 2 he smash a slaves hero on anteater and held up 10 seekers for 3 turns. I forgot about command point stealing in game 1 but game 2 he stole 1 cp which was ok. Overall I'm thinking of drooping him for shroud guard and a cheaper beatstick hero, the mini is just so fantastic though. Lady O has been worth it every game doing massive mortal wounds behind her swarm of chainrasps.

 

2000 Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief's NightHaunt

1 Command points
7 drops

Battalions/Endless Spells
Chainguard 120

Chronomantic Cogs 60

Aethervoid Pendulum 40

Heros
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief 240
(Life Stealer/Spectral Summons)

Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King 220

Guardian of Souls 140
(Wychlight Lantern/Spirit Drain)

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed 140
(Midnight Tome/Reaping Scythe)

Spirit Torment 120

Battleline
20 Chainrasp Hordes 160

20 Chainrasp Hordes 160

20 Grimghast Reapers 280

Other
20 Bladegheist Revenants 320

Army total 2000

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