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My guide has been updated with the Be'lakor additions. Please, please, please have a look and let me know anywhere I am inaccurate or things are unclear. Please also keep in mind that it's also kind of hard to keep it all clear since we're in flux right now, but I try to note that where I can. If I made an assumption without a caveat, let me know.

Also, I need some help if anyone's willing.

I will be working on sample lists later, but I'm not playing games as often as I used to be for obvious reasons, and definitely not full 2K games. I would like to hear any lists you guys can come up with that seem to play well, especially with the new additions.

In order to consider your list, I'd want to know the following:

  • Point value of the list (aiming for 2K lists more than anything)
  • The win/lose ratio of the list with no or very minor alterations between the games
  • At least 3 wins with the list against different armies (same opponent is fine)
  • The purpose of each of the units in the list, their configurations, and their strategy
  • Whether or not you feel the list is competitive

I'll post your list in my guide's sample section and credit you however you want for the work.

Thanks in advance

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Just finished my Emerald host, though I have another 10 Hexwraith making it a total of 20. Just qurious but how many Hexwraith for which general do you guys run?

on another note, I converted my nh  on ghyran style, what do you think :)? (more evil than sylvaneth) tree spirits

I don’t know if you guys care about this stuff in this thread, but I speed painted a group of 10 rasps. I’m pretty pleased with them, even though they’re pretty vanilla haha.

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Howdy y'all. 

I've got a 1 day event coming up this Saturday - it will be my first time playing in person in over a year! Anyway, I'm still fine tuning my list and wondering your thoughts on how to round it out... here's what I'm for sure planning on bringing:

Emerald Procession

Lady O / Reikenor / Cogs / Krulghast

5 Hex / 10 Hex / 10 Chainrasp / 30 Reapers

Black Coach

Death Riders

 

That leaves me at 1800 points and 102 wounds. I'm viewing things as three different core blocks: 10 Hexes + Black Coach / 5 Hexes + Lady O / Reapers + Krulghast with Reik and the Chainrasps just going where needed to hunt objectives. Units I have painted/ready to go that I could pull from include:

Cairn Wraith / Guardian of Souls / 10 Harridans / 10 Bladegheists / Dreadblade Harrow

Thoughts on what I should add? And it can't be anything I didn't list as I'm still scrambling to get the Black Coach finished before the event and don't have time to paint up anything else. 

If it matters, other armies I know of at the event include: KO (the option that allows for other Dwarf units), Tempest Eye Cities, LRL, Nurgle, Sons of Behemat, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and another Nighthaunt. 

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Hey guys, maybe I'm late to the party on this but just wanted to put in my two cents worth regarding our updates in Belakor:

Subfactions: These seems super specific to buffing just a few units and are honestly a bit weird compared to other armies subs. I know getting locked out of ruler of the spirit hosts hurts but I find the buffs to chainrasps and hexwraiths to be pretty solid. Most competitive lists bring a lot of rasps so I think this is overall a net gain.

I am really eyeballing Hexwraiths again. Emerald Host Hexwraiths in a DG battallion with a Vampire Lord/Mounted KoS buff is 10 attacks per model. That is pretty spicy. Imagine hitting wave of terror and rolling ~200 attacks with a 260pt unit lololol. 

Dreadscythes - I was really excited about the buffs to this unit as they are one of my favorite units in our book, but a 4pt per model cost increase is INSANE. I actually prefer them under the old rules since they were at least spammable at 13-14pts per model. This places them as direct competitors to Bladegeists, and they just don't hold up. Note that dreadscythes are now actually more expensive per model than Myrmourn. Can't help but wonder if this was mistake and that they referenced their old pre-FAQ costs when factoring in the price hike.

Cruciator - An interesting character. Seems a bit expensive for what he does but 5+ FNPs can be borderline abusive on the right units. A unit of 40 chain rasps (with the new sub buffs) supported by this guy could be an extremely effective unit. 

Verdict: I think this was a poor update, but some very specific lists did get moderately better. But the buffs are fragile since they essentially rely on Vampire Lords and Dolorous Guard remaining available. As others have said, both are likely to go away or change significantly in the next few months. :(

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4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Howdy y'all. 

I've got a 1 day event coming up this Saturday - it will be my first time playing in person in over a year! Anyway, I'm still fine tuning my list and wondering your thoughts on how to round it out... here's what I'm for sure planning on bringing:

Emerald Procession

Lady O / Reikenor / Cogs / Krulghast

5 Hex / 10 Hex / 10 Chainrasp / 30 Reapers

Black Coach

Death Riders

 

That leaves me at 1800 points and 102 wounds. I'm viewing things as three different core blocks: 10 Hexes + Black Coach / 5 Hexes + Lady O / Reapers + Krulghast with Reik and the Chainrasps just going where needed to hunt objectives. Units I have painted/ready to go that I could pull from include:

Cairn Wraith / Guardian of Souls / 10 Harridans / 10 Bladegheists / Dreadblade Harrow

Thoughts on what I should add? And it can't be anything I didn't list as I'm still scrambling to get the Black Coach finished before the event and don't have time to paint up anything else. 

If it matters, other armies I know of at the event include: KO (the option that allows for other Dwarf units), Tempest Eye Cities, LRL, Nurgle, Sons of Behemat, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and another Nighthaunt. 

I'd give the Harridans a run. 10 for 180 and you're at 1980. They, with their update, can now outdamage Bladeybois if there's no ST for Fearful Frenzy.

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58 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Hey guys, maybe I'm late to the party on this but just wanted to put in my two cents worth regarding our updates in Belakor:

Subfactions: These seems super specific to buffing just a few units and are honestly a bit weird compared to other armies subs. I know getting locked out of ruler of the spirit hosts hurts but I find the buffs to chainrasps and hexwraiths to be pretty solid. Most competitive lists bring a lot of rasps so I think this is overall a net gain.

I am really eyeballing Hexwraiths again. Emerald Host Hexwraiths in a DG battallion with a Vampire Lord/Mounted KoS buff is 10 attacks per model. That is pretty spicy. Imagine hitting wave of terror and rolling ~200 attacks with a 260pt unit lololol. 

Dreadscythes - I was really excited about the buffs to this unit as they are one of my favorite units in our book, but a 4pt per model cost increase is INSANE. I actually prefer them under the old rules since they were at least spammable at 13-14pts per model. This places them as direct competitors to Bladegeists, and they just don't hold up. Note that dreadscythes are now actually more expensive per model than Myrmourn. Can't help but wonder if this was mistake and that they referenced their old pre-FAQ costs when factoring in the price hike.

Cruciator - An interesting character. Seems a bit expensive for what he does but 5+ FNPs can be borderline abusive on the right units. A unit of 40 chain rasps (with the new sub buffs) supported by this guy could be an extremely effective unit. 

Verdict: I think this was a poor update, but some very specific lists did get moderately better. But the buffs are fragile since they essentially rely on Vampire Lords and Dolorous Guard remaining available. As others have said, both are likely to go away or change significantly in the next few months. :(

Only one of the subfactions mandates a command trait, you can still take rotsh in rieks subfaction. I think it is the better of the two, as you can still just buy the dolorous guard ability for now. 

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4 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

Only one of the subfactions mandates a command trait, you can still take rotsh in rieks subfaction. I think it is the better of the two, as you can still just buy the dolorous guard ability for now. 

Good catch. I completely overlooked that.

But I think having both DG and Emerald Host stacking is what truly makes Hexwraiths scary. However I imagine the default choice usually will be Reikenor's Condemned. If your aren't bringing Hexwraiths then Emerald Host isn't that appealing. 

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Well looks like I should try NH again. Poor guys have been in storage for too long. Going to give this list a crack soon. Should be able to properly utilise the teleporting shenanigans

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of the Host
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: The Traitor Knight's Blade
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Spirit Torment (120)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
Black Coach (220)
Deathriders (130)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111
 

Basically the idea is buff bomb, with my experience with Tempest Eye, with the help of the Pendant, Hexwraiths moving 15" should be able to get mostly anywhere turn one, pump the Knight of Shrouds CA into each and drop the Spirit Torment behind them before they go in. Have Reikenor drop the Cogs and that's 17" of movement son, run past them first maybe? The list is 6 drop so potentially give the first turn away, but it depends on the list. The Dreadblade is there as Tax, but he can be an objective grabber, the second Knight will be Deepstriking out the back with the Reapers, hoping we can get a 7" charge. Toss the Coach out like a Bay blade and just see what happens.

I'm playing this unlike any other death army, I'm basically going to ignore healing mechanics because that's where things usually fail. Deal with the small fry with the large amount of attacks first and hope to guard against the brunt of the high rend elites/heroes 

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19 hours ago, Batch said:

Well looks like I should try NH again. Poor guys have been in storage for too long. Going to give this list a crack soon. Should be able to properly utilise the teleporting shenanigans

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Lord of the Host
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: The Traitor Knight's Blade
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Spirit Torment (120)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
10 x Hexwraiths (260)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
Black Coach (220)
Deathriders (130)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111
 

Basically the idea is buff bomb, with my experience with Tempest Eye, with the help of the Pendant, Hexwraiths moving 15" should be able to get mostly anywhere turn one, pump the Knight of Shrouds CA into each and drop the Spirit Torment behind them before they go in. Have Reikenor drop the Cogs and that's 17" of movement son, run past them first maybe? The list is 6 drop so potentially give the first turn away, but it depends on the list. The Dreadblade is there as Tax, but he can be an objective grabber, the second Knight will be Deepstriking out the back with the Reapers, hoping we can get a 7" charge. Toss the Coach out like a Bay blade and just see what happens.

I'm playing this unlike any other death army, I'm basically going to ignore healing mechanics because that's where things usually fail. Deal with the small fry with the large amount of attacks first and hope to guard against the brunt of the high rend elites/heroes 

Just an observation: Between characters, spells, and battallions, you have 820pts in support. I feel like that is too much. Also we all know the Black Coach isn't much more than a distraction, so that is really closer to 1040pts in support units. You are relying on your Grimghast Reapers and Hexwraiths to do pretty much all the heavy lifting. 

I would trim some characters. Have you considered Dolorous guard? It is generally better than deathriders except for the very specific instances where you roll a 9+ on charges. It also frees up the points from the dreadblade.

I'm not a super big fan of cogs since its often just as useful for your opponent as it is for you and its a heck of a points sink. But if you are going to be putting a lot of units in deepstrike then it might pay off. 

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Updated my Mortal Reign list to Mortal Reign mk. 3 - Dolorous Guard, which is valid if/until the White Dwarf battalions are FAQed out.

I'll be making another version not dependent on White Dwarf, but it'll likely no longer be a mortal wounds centric list. I'm finding it pretty hard to get the same mix of units and regeneration without the battalion.

Feedback welcome

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Just got back from a one day event. Tiny due to COVID - only 8 people. Had a blast though and went 2-1 taking wins against Lumineth (Teclis Syar) and Tempest Eye Cities while losing a close game against Nurgle (triple GUO). 
 

I ran:

Emerald Host

Lady O (general) / Reik / Harrow / Krulghast

10 Hex / 5 Hex / 30 Reapers / 10 Chainrasp

5 Harridans / Black Coach

Death Riders / Cogs

Had a lot of observations, but the Emerald Host + Death Riders combo is really strong while it lasts. Hoping to get more typed up tomorrow. 

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Completed my math and strategy sessions for now and I've included a total of three potential Mortal Reign lists in the guide. None are proven, so I'd appreciate if anyone runs them to report back on how they fared. I plan on running all three as soon as I can and based on feedback narrow down to a single list to carry on the name.

You can see them here. If Chrome's new selected text linking doesn't work, you can access my guide here, and see the lists at the bottom.

8 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Just got back from a one day event. Tiny due to COVID - only 8 people. Had a blast though and went 2-1 taking wins against Lumineth (Teclis Syar) and Tempest Eye Cities while losing a close game against Nurgle (triple GUO). 
 

I ran:

Emerald Host

Lady O (general) / Reik / Harrow / Krulghast

10 Hex / 5 Hex / 30 Reapers / 10 Chainrasp

5 Harridans / Black Coach

Death Riders / Cogs

Had a lot of observations, but the Emerald Host + Death Riders combo is really strong while it lasts. Hoping to get more typed up tomorrow. 

Can't wait to hear more. I wants the details.

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12 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I'm considering picking up a box of Harridans and running Olynder in Sorrowmourn Choir and Reikenor in his procession along with Shroudguard.

Gravelords release will delay that though.

I am really excited to run the Harridans right now. That whole battalion is amazing. 

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Not sure I agree with the hype surrounding the harridans. They still suffer from big bases and bad reach, the bravery based debuff is still pretty unlikely to matter, and their points went up. The 6's to hit instead of wound thing is nice, but I don't think they outperform bladeghiests or grimghasts in the slightest. 

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On 5/2/2021 at 6:06 AM, EnixLHQ said:

Can't wait to hear more. I wants the details.

Spent the day Sunday outside weeding (had a great day weather wise), but so I was only able to type up a report of game 1. Figure I'd post it and will post the other two later. Game 1 was a win against LRL. So here it is:

Battle Report: Game One, One Day Event, May 1st 2021 - The Spirit of Nighthaunt - The Grand Alliance Community (tga.community)

Also, @EnixLHQ, I'll have to take a look at your updates later this week when I get some time. When I do, I'll be sure to let you know! 

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8 hours ago, Btimmy said:

Not sure I agree with the hype surrounding the harridans. They still suffer from big bases and bad reach, the bravery based debuff is still pretty unlikely to matter, and their points went up. The 6's to hit instead of wound thing is nice, but I don't think they outperform bladeghiests or grimghasts in the slightest. 

You can plug in unit data here and visualize the data: https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/

When comparing a unit of Bladegheists to the same size unit of Dreadscythes the warscroll change allows the Dreadscythes to now out damages, on average, the Bladegheist unit in two of the four scenarios that Bladegheists find themselves in. Those scenarios being fighting without a charge, fighting after a charge, fighting without a charge but with a Spirit Torment, and fighting after a charge with a Spirit Torment.

The Dreadscythes win out in any scenario where a Spirit Torment is not with the Bladegheists.

Bladegheists still win out if a Spirit Torment is factored in.

What this means is that if the only hero support the Dreadscythes have is Olynder for her battalion, which is going to be the likely scenario, they'll still put out respectable damage, especially when standing and fighting, and now allow us a third unit capable of filling in a niche with damage. Now you're not screwed if your Bladegheists get deleted and you didn't bring Reapers.

Plus battalion bonus.

Also, a Knight of Shrouds Command Ability, either one, will benefit the Dreadscythes more than the Bladegheists. Both benefit, of course, but the Dreadscythes benefit more from a 4+ lowering to a 3+, and exploding 6's on extra attacks.

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Hey, I'm a new Nighthaunt player, and I'm struggling against my mate's khorne Goretide list, namely a chaos lord on Karkadrak as the general. Any tips on my plan or unit choices?

my list is as follows:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Reikenor's Condemned
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Artefact: Corpse Candle
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240) or 30 x Chainrasp Horde
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (70)
Shroudguard (110)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

My plan is to capture one or two objectives, and defend it while gaining points. my secondary objective is to cut away at his slaughterpriests and bloodsecrators, usually at the center of the army and next to each other.  I place the shroudguard, the chainghasts, and the 40 chainrasps into the underworlds.

Turn 1, run my hero's up, drop my 40 blob onto an objective, preferably the highest scoring one, and I stake my claim on this objective. I am trying to force the fight there. I am notably trying to lure the army away from his supports, and make an opening in the back for the shroudguard. Reikenor and the spirit hosts will be looking to touch a less populated objective, and set up within 18" of the fighting of the main objective. 

turn 2, Reikenor sets up his balewind vortex and attempts to casts his two spells, looking to pick a one of the target heroes if he can, or simple burn through a large threat. We burn through the corpse candle for either shademist or spectral lure, which ever is more needed. Grimghasts are looking for either chaos knights, chaos warriors, or bloodreavers, as these are the most threatening units that will proc reaped like corn. We drop the shroudguard and attempt to attack the slaughterpriests and bloodsecrator. If we are unable to, due to not enough space or they are too well shrouded, we expend one of the bladegeists to stall out the karkadrak, as if it gets onto the front line, the 40 chainrasp will be utterly demolished. 

Turn 3, reapeat above, except we force the drop onto the backline. I definitely see at this point retreating to less populated objectives, as Khorne can deal more damage than I can very well survive, in which case we send the chainrasp, hopefully with a cp to go 15" towards the next objective with the less pressure on it. 

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24 minutes ago, Zashier29 said:

Hey, I'm a new Nighthaunt player, and I'm struggling against my mate's khorne Goretide list, namely a chaos lord on Karkadrak as the general. Any tips on my plan or unit choices?

my list is as follows:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Reikenor's Condemned
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Artefact: Corpse Candle
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240) or 30 x Chainrasp Horde
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (70)
Shroudguard (110)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

My plan is to capture one or two objectives, and defend it while gaining points. my secondary objective is to cut away at his slaughterpriests and bloodsecrators, usually at the center of the army and next to each other.  I place the shroudguard, the chainghasts, and the 40 chainrasps into the underworlds.

Turn 1, run my hero's up, drop my 40 blob onto an objective, preferably the highest scoring one, and I stake my claim on this objective. I am trying to force the fight there. I am notably trying to lure the army away from his supports, and make an opening in the back for the shroudguard. Reikenor and the spirit hosts will be looking to touch a less populated objective, and set up within 18" of the fighting of the main objective. 

turn 2, Reikenor sets up his balewind vortex and attempts to casts his two spells, looking to pick a one of the target heroes if he can, or simple burn through a large threat. We burn through the corpse candle for either shademist or spectral lure, which ever is more needed. Grimghasts are looking for either chaos knights, chaos warriors, or bloodreavers, as these are the most threatening units that will proc reaped like corn. We drop the shroudguard and attempt to attack the slaughterpriests and bloodsecrator. If we are unable to, due to not enough space or they are too well shrouded, we expend one of the bladegeists to stall out the karkadrak, as if it gets onto the front line, the 40 chainrasp will be utterly demolished. 

Turn 3, reapeat above, except we force the drop onto the backline. I definitely see at this point retreating to less populated objectives, as Khorne can deal more damage than I can very well survive, in which case we send the chainrasp, hopefully with a cp to go 15" towards the next objective with the less pressure on it. 

The only thing I'd consider is what your opponent tends to bring. From the sounds of it a lot of horde units? This list seems set up more to deal with, mostly, smaller unit sizes. You're asking your horde killers, the Reapers, to chew through a lot by themselves.

One thing you could do about that is dropping the Chainghasts for an Endless Spell, like the Purple Sun or some other spell that does more damage the more models it touches. That will help thin the masses a bit.

Where is the ST and the KoS going? Spirit Hosts benefit from rerolling 1's way more than they do extra attacks or other buffs. That's why I always pair mine with a Spirit Torment. Plus, a ST with Ruler of the Spirit Hosts can bring full bases back at full health, even if a base was damaged. But, that's a lot of resources to invest if you don't plan on them being a main source of mortal wounds. You could drop the Spirit Hosts to load up on more Bladegheists or more Reapers, depending if you need higher damage output or to kill more horde units, respectively.

If your KoS with Ruler is going to accompany anyone I'm guessing it's the Bladegheists for Shroudguard. That's great, but you could always try Cloaked in Shadow. He might do more surviving longer to give out the Frenzied save for the Shroudguard than he might bringing back 1-3 models. Especially if you could Specture Lure them. Not sure how much ranged you're fighting against.

If you haven't yet, I'd also suggest getting the new hero. The Krulghast Cruciator could help with the Reapers or another unit you know a lot of damage is going to be allocated to them.

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1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

The only thing I'd consider is what your opponent tends to bring. From the sounds of it a lot of horde units? This list seems set up more to deal with, mostly, smaller unit sizes. You're asking your horde killers, the Reapers, to chew through a lot by themselves.

One thing you could do about that is dropping the Chainghasts for an Endless Spell, like the Purple Sun or some other spell that does more damage the more models it touches. That will help thin the masses a bit.

Where is the ST and the KoS going? Spirit Hosts benefit from rerolling 1's way more than they do extra attacks or other buffs. That's why I always pair mine with a Spirit Torment. Plus, a ST with Ruler of the Spirit Hosts can bring full bases back at full health, even if a base was damaged. But, that's a lot of resources to invest if you don't plan on them being a main source of mortal wounds. You could drop the Spirit Hosts to load up on more Bladegheists or more Reapers, depending if you need higher damage output or to kill more horde units, respectively.

If your KoS with Ruler is going to accompany anyone I'm guessing it's the Bladegheists for Shroudguard. That's great, but you could always try Cloaked in Shadow. He might do more surviving longer to give out the Frenzied save for the Shroudguard than he might bringing back 1-3 models. Especially if you could Specture Lure them. Not sure how much ranged you're fighting against.

If you haven't yet, I'd also suggest getting the new hero. The Krulghast Cruciator could help with the Reapers or another unit you know a lot of damage is going to be allocated to them.

The Knight of Shrouds is going with the bladegiests towards the backline. I can agree, for this reason, to make the Spirit Torment the general, as to get more value, but I disagree with cutting the Chainghasts. I want to try and assure the kill on the bloodserator, which has a 3+ save.

I can change the plan to have the spirit hosts engage turn 2, but I want them to screen for Riekenor in turn one, maybe, since they can be supported by the Spirit Torment, can engage the Karkadrak, as he has 9 wounds and a 5++. either way, I think they could tie him up, it just depends on which side my opponent places him. 

I'd like to run the Krulghast Cruciator, as he'd be a solid include, but what can I cut to add him? 

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13 minutes ago, Zashier29 said:

The Knight of Shrouds is going with the bladegiests towards the backline. I can agree, for this reason, to make the Spirit Torment the general, as to get more value, but I disagree with cutting the Chainghasts. I want to try and assure the kill on the bloodserator, which has a 3+ save.

I can change the plan to have the spirit hosts engage turn 2, but I want them to screen for Riekenor in turn one, maybe, since they can be supported by the Spirit Torment, can engage the Karkadrak, as he has 9 wounds and a 5++. either way, I think they could tie him up, it just depends on which side my opponent places him. 

I'd like to run the Krulghast Cruciator, as he'd be a solid include, but what can I cut to add him? 

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak is a 3+, 5++, isn't he? Yeah, I would bypass as much as I could with the Spirit Hosts. But, are you trying to buy time to earn objective points, or trying to kill the guy? 6 SHs is 18 wounds, and it looks like this guy has no trouble putting out at least 6 wounds, 2 of which mortal, against a 4+ save each combat if you prevent him from charging. D3 more mortals if he does. That's one round (two combats) without healing or Deathless Spirit saves. That's how long you can tie him up, or how long you have to kill him. At 9 wounds you would need two combat phases yourself, at full 6 bases, to do that (around 6 mortals per combat). That's a tall order. Either paring the SHs with Krulghast, or a general with Ruler, to survive might buy you another round if the dice are in your favor, or trying to do as much damage as possible with either a ST or KoSoES and spending a CP, might be able to take him down, but both are hard prospects to deal with. Honestly, against a guy like that I'd opt to go more for Emerald Host to tie him down right away and have so many more wounds he has to chew through before going anywhere, or Sorrowmourn for basically the same reason and also a bunch of mortal wound potential and a higher possibility of killing him without taking too many losses can't be healed.

I can't really tell you what to cut or where to put things. I'd start by trying to counter each of his strengths as best as possible, instead. Hordes get Reapers, 3+ saves get mortal wounds, if your opponent does a lot of damage invest in better save after saves and more wounds on the table. Objectives first, always.

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4 hours ago, Zashier29 said:

The Knight of Shrouds is going with the bladegiests towards the backline. I can agree, for this reason, to make the Spirit Torment the general, as to get more value, but I disagree with cutting the Chainghasts. I want to try and assure the kill on the bloodserator, which has a 3+ save.

I can change the plan to have the spirit hosts engage turn 2, but I want them to screen for Riekenor in turn one, maybe, since they can be supported by the Spirit Torment, can engage the Karkadrak, as he has 9 wounds and a 5++. either way, I think they could tie him up, it just depends on which side my opponent places him. 

I'd like to run the Krulghast Cruciator, as he'd be a solid include, but what can I cut to add him? 

Just found out about a tool (Thanks AOSCoach)

List Analyzer Bot (BETA)

Ran your list through it and it's rated A-. My own lists rate B+! 😄 The tool isn't updated with anything from Be'lakor yet, though.

And since I'm talking about tools, this is what I use before I comment about math or potential.

AOS Statshammer

Hopefully these can help you build a great list.

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Hi everyone. I finally got all three of my battle reports typed up and posted. You can find them here:

Game 1 versus Lumineth

Game 2 versus Nurgle

Game 3 versus Cities

As a reminder, my list was:

Emerald Host

Lady O (general, reaping scythe) / Reikenor (shademist) / Dreablade (Pendant of the Fell Wind) / Krulghast (Shadow's Edge)

10 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 30 Grimghast Reapers / 10 Chainrasp Horde / 5 Dreadscythe Harridans

Black Coach

Death Riders / Chronomantic Cogs

Here's some takeaways:

I'm really sad to know (well, to hear the rumors) that the combo of Death Riders + Emerald Host is going away so soon. It really makes Hexwraiths a threat. My unit of 10 Hexwraiths did a tremendous amount of work and I was really pleased with them being one of my hammers. 

Lady Olynder is just great when you can bounce wounds to a nearby unit. Her bodyguard unit of 5 Hexwraiths did get wiped out too easily for my liking in the final two games. 

I know Reapers aren't well loved anymore, but they just do great work independently, which is not something I can say for most of the other units in the army. 

I ended up being really pleased with the Black Coach. I meant for it to travel with the big group of Hexwraiths, but it was just so versatile with its speed. 

The Krulghast was wasted against Lumineth as I was playing it as written where it doesn't help with mortals, but did great in the other two matchups. It was especially nice giving its buff to the Black Coach, which I really hadn't thought about. Shadow's Edge was wasted on it as I never sent it into combat, so I'd go with Midnight Tome if I was giving it an artefact again. 

I also know a lot of players have moved away from Cogs, but it really is the best way to take advantage of the Underworld rule IMO. 

Finally, the -1 Save rule to a hero of my choice mattered a lot in the first game, and less in the second and third game, but still made a difference. It's not game changing, but it's not nothing. 

Feel free to ask me any questions! 

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1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

I know Reapers aren't well loved anymore, but they just do great work independently, which is not something I can say for most of the other units in the army. 

Grimghasts are very good. They hit well vs hordes and can actually fight in ranks. I would take them over harridans any day because harridans have 1" reach on 32's, meaning unless you have huge real estate to get all them in, its unlikely that they can all even get into combat. I think people have some strange math-hammered opinions about harridans being good that doesn't translate to reality at all in my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Hi everyone. I finally got all three of my battle reports typed up and posted. You can find them here:

Game 1 versus Lumineth

Game 2 versus Nurgle

Game 3 versus Cities

As a reminder, my list was:

Emerald Host

Lady O (general, reaping scythe) / Reikenor (shademist) / Dreablade (Pendant of the Fell Wind) / Krulghast (Shadow's Edge)

10 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 30 Grimghast Reapers / 10 Chainrasp Horde / 5 Dreadscythe Harridans

Black Coach

Death Riders / Chronomantic Cogs

Here's some takeaways:

I'm really sad to know (well, to hear the rumors) that the combo of Death Riders + Emerald Host is going away so soon. It really makes Hexwraiths a threat. My unit of 10 Hexwraiths did a tremendous amount of work and I was really pleased with them being one of my hammers. 

Lady Olynder is just great when you can bounce wounds to a nearby unit. Her bodyguard unit of 5 Hexwraiths did get wiped out too easily for my liking in the final two games. 

I know Reapers aren't well loved anymore, but they just do great work independently, which is not something I can say for most of the other units in the army. 

I ended up being really pleased with the Black Coach. I meant for it to travel with the big group of Hexwraiths, but it was just so versatile with its speed. 

The Krulghast was wasted against Lumineth as I was playing it as written where it doesn't help with mortals, but did great in the other two matchups. It was especially nice giving its buff to the Black Coach, which I really hadn't thought about. Shadow's Edge was wasted on it as I never sent it into combat, so I'd go with Midnight Tome if I was giving it an artefact again. 

I also know a lot of players have moved away from Cogs, but it really is the best way to take advantage of the Underworld rule IMO. 

Finally, the -1 Save rule to a hero of my choice mattered a lot in the first game, and less in the second and third game, but still made a difference. It's not game changing, but it's not nothing. 

Feel free to ask me any questions! 

I love me some Reapers! They are so versatile, and on the fly too. If anything, I think it's the cost that keeps them from showing up in lists right now. I include them in most of my lists.

Good to hear you had an overall winning set! If you were to adjust anything from the list you brought, what would it be?

26 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

Grimghasts are very good. They hit well vs hordes and can actually fight in ranks. I would take them over harridans any day because harridans have 1" reach on 32's, meaning unless you have huge real estate to get all them in, its unlikely that they can all even get into combat. I think people have some strange math-hammered opinions about harridans being good that doesn't translate to reality at all in my opinion. 

Reapers are in a class all their own. In terms of fighting in ranks, keeping their overall footprint small and in all of our "wholly" ranges, and still being very fast makes them the best overall standard unit. I'd call them elites if it weren't for their wounds. I don't think Dreadscythes or Bladegheists are even in the same class.

Bladegheists and Shroudguard is a tournament staple, though, because of the 5++. If KC gets FAQed to do the same for both mortals and normals, shove him with a pack of Reapers and that'll be amazing. Shroudguard use will probably go down quite a bit unless people want just that much more 5++ running around, which isn't a bad thing.

Dreadscythes, though, fill a different niche entirely. They shouldn't be aggressive attackers, and with Sorrowmourn Choir I think their use is pretty clear as being a screen for Olynder that has some bite and potential bravery-based defensiveness. And as her wound pool. They're meant to stick to her and attack in tandem with her.

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I think Olynder's betallion has some really cool sneaky plays that can be made.

While the troops are there are extra wounds, you can let her take the wounds until she's down to 3 or so left, I'm combat this will likely mean you have more attacks from less depleted units.

I think Olyder + endless spells could also have some really cool interactions. I'm not sure what the best combo is but I think dispelling your own endless spells could be a fun way to buff the Banshees.

I like the idea of chucking palasade up as a charge blocking screen/defensive tool. You can then displell it yourself to counter charge and simultaneously buff the Banshees.

If you went all in on a deathstar you could take the soul boat and balewind vortex, and knight, and a guardian of souls pop up from the underworlds.

Olynder on the balewind can use her warscroll spell up to 24 inches away, then the knight gives the Banshees +1 attack, soul boat teleports the Banshees forward 12, then they displell it as they hop out. With correct placemeant of the underworlds guardian you can surprise an opponent when a unit 24 inches away is hit by banshess with 3 attacks each, hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, -2 rend, d3 damage. + You fly right over screens.

Quick bit of damage calculation, and that will statistically remove Archaon in a single turn even if he's refilling saves.

Edited by Rors
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