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Just finished my Emerald host, though I have another 10 Hexwraith making it a total of 20. Just qurious but how many Hexwraith for which general do you guys run?

on another note, I converted my nh  on ghyran style, what do you think :)? (more evil than sylvaneth) tree spirits

I don’t know if you guys care about this stuff in this thread, but I speed painted a group of 10 rasps. I’m pretty pleased with them, even though they’re pretty vanilla haha.

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16 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

as far as the Krulghast Cruciator goes, they pretty plainly called him a "support hero," which I am taking to mean he is best paired with another hero. I'm envisioning something like him and a Spirit Torment together with a maxed unit of Bladegeists. 120+120+320=560 points. You'd get a full unit buffed by the Spirit Torment to reroll misses, a 5++ save that also applies to the Spirit Tormen so it's not so easy to snipe him, and the ST's ability to restore models or wounds to himself or the KC on the battleshock phase.

A maxed out unit of Bladeghieist Revenants (20 models) looks like a points-efficient option and a handy one to maximise buffs as well, but in reality:

  • They have a 1" reach on 32mm bases. It's very hard to get even 10 to pile in, particularly as we tend, as NH players, to rely on 9" charges or movement shenanigans, as opposed to "conventional" counter-charges where you position the unit in a very good place to pile in upon your target unit after the charge (and that's because leaving your glass cannon close enough to anything even remotely dangerous on the table is suicidal).
  • Try to keep 20 models on 32mm bases wholly within 12" of the Spirit Torment... I dare you. It's a close-to-impossible task in actual game play, particularly if striking from the underworld. The same applies for the Cruciator's buff: still wholly within, still, effectively, a non-playable option. I hate it with the entirety of my rotten, ghostly heart. 
  • Bravery is still an issue, even when they start at bravery 10. These guys are only one wound, most killy units in the game can easily munch through 10 Revenants in one go, even with the 5+ shrug. Remember, we never have enough CPs to do what we really want to do. By the way, can we just take a moment to appreciate that Our Beloved Craven King is still sitting ducks with zero motivation to ever been fielded in an even remotely competitive scenario? Argh.
  • Sniping the Spirit Torment is still a very easy thing to do even if you take into account the 5++ DPR. 5 wounds on a -1 to hit (Look out sir) and a 5++ DPR? Anything with a bow can do that, no problem. 
  • You can get the 5++ DPR on two units of 10 Revenants via the good ol' Shroudguard battalion, which costs less then the Cruciator and, crucially (sorry...), does not need any "activation" for the 5++ DPR to kick in. 

Having said that, the "old" option of bringing 2 units of (10) Revenants, 1 Spirit Torment, 1 KoS on steed and Shroudguard (180+180+120+120+110=710) is way more expensive, so I think the Cruciator might offer an improvement in this context, particularly given he has a decent chance of activating its ability in the shooting phase. Definitely 2 units of 10 Revenants for me, though. I would go as far as saying that the block of 20 is a trap.

I like the direction of granting significant buffs via free-of-cost (well, -ish, in this case, you still have to activate the ability somehow, but still...) war scroll abilities as opposed to very pricey battalions. Nighthaunts have a real problem with battalions. Many of them are good, but our units are on average so costly that at the ned of the day I found myself simply bringing more wounds on the table as opposed to marginally increased the durability of the list via battalion-driven synergies. 

Just my 2 cents, obviously. Thanks for elaborating on Reikenor's potential, folks, I might have overlooked a few options there... keep them coming!

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1 hour ago, Tiberius501 said:

Thanks @lare2, that sounds good. To have the Bladeghiests and Rasps getting re-rolls, I need the Torment and Chainghasts to be close to them. Should I prioritise the Spirit hosts with the Torment, or the re-rolls?

Nah, I forgot about linking that chain. Can be a pain. Your idea is sound. Still reckon you should pack in 9 spirit hosts though and have ruler of the spirit host and pendant on a hero with them. 

Just cause I like him (and assuming you're running Reikenor in the battalion) I'd run the new guy in this role and drop the knight. 

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25 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Nah, I forgot about linking that chain. Can be a pain. Your idea is sound. Still reckon you should pack in 9 spirit hosts though and have ruler of the spirit host and pendant on a hero with them. 

Just cause I like him (and assuming you're running Reikenor in the battalion) I'd run the new guy in this role and drop the knight. 

Yep cool that sounds good. Thanks heaps, especially a nice chonk of hosts. Will look cool too. 

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19 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Hmmm, have I come in at a bad time to start a Nighthaunt army? Lol

Honestly, it's probably the best time from a competitive standpoint. 

And that's something we need to remember: despite many of us being disappointed that the warscroll rewrites (well I guess just one actual rewrite) pale in comparison to those Nurgle and Idoneth Deepkin got, Nighthaunt is still better off after this book than before. 

In fact, in a low bravery shooting meta (Lumineth, Seraphon, Cities of Sigmar, KO), I reckon the army can actually be competitive and give many opponents a good game. 

There's some new strategy that has been opened up, and while once again it's disappointing overall, it's still interesting. I've got my first one day tournament in over a year in two weeks and I'm looking forward to it (the TO said I could use the new rules). 

As for list building, I'd caution anyone using any of Chainguard/Condemned/Dolorous Guard/Forgotten Scions/Emerald Host battalions. Those are clearly going away IMO, if not with the FAQ, then with 3.0 (which I've seen some rumors saying battalions will be different). 

I still think Death Riders has a lot of potential in the Emerald Procession. 60 Hexwraith Rider attacks and 60 mount attacks on a 9+ charge roll with a unit of 10 is nothing to sneeze at.

I also think Death Stalkers has play in Emerald Procession with the -1 to an opponent's hero's save. Grimghast Reapers are anti-horde specialists, but when they're +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and effectively -2 rend; they should take out just about any big bad. The Stalkers tax is annoying, but it still gives you two tiny units that you can use to just grab objectives. I ran that battalion before Dolorous Guard and did okay with it. 

17 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

So what about something like this?

—[Reikenor’s Condemned]—

HEROES

- Reikenor (General)

- Knight of Shrouds on Steed (General; CT: Ruler of The Spirit Hosts)

- Guardian of Souls 

- Spirit Torment

BATTLELINE

- 20x Chainrasps

- 20x Chainrasps

- 6x Spirit Hosts

BEHEMOTH

- Black Coach

OTHER

- 10x Bladegheists 

- 10x Bladegheists 

- 2x Chainghasts

BATTALION 

- Shroudguard

Total 1850/2000

I still have 150pts to spend, but not sure on what. And I’m not sure which Artefact to take as my second and who to give them to, and also what spells to take.

Any suggestions on the list, what to spend the extra points on, and what to do with artefacts and spells?

I don't think the Spirit Hosts / Black Coach fit in this list. The Chainrasps should be your anvil and the Bladegheists your hammer. Spirit Hosts can be both, but you really have to build around them. You'd want a unit of 9 and to have them supported with a Spirit Torment/Black Coach/Ruler of the Spirit Hosts or Lady O. Nighthaunt are too expensive to build a list that does it all. So, taking that out, I'd suggest something like: 

Reikenor / Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed / Spirit Torment / Guardian of Souls

40 Chainrasps / 40 Chainrasps / 10 Chainrasps

10 Bladegheists / 10 Bladegheists 

2 Chainghasts

Shroudguard

That puts you at 1710 points and 137 wounds. 

Options to supplement that list include:

A second Spirit Torment - they make this procession work

A second unit of Chainghasts - see above... and at that point the Excruciator wouldn't be bad to be able to surprise your opponent with enough deep strike shooting to take out a hero. 

Chronomantic Cogs - always a good take with Reikenor

Lady Olynder - just as a deep striking hammer

2 units of Hexwraiths - just for speed more than anything

A Mourngul - a deep striking hammer

You could also take out the unit of 10 Chainrasps and add a unit of 20 Grimghasts as a horde clearer. 

As for artefacts, you'll want to take the one you have to and then either Pendant of the Fell Wind or Midnight Tome. I'd suggest PotFW as it's just so powerful. 

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Thanks @dmorley21. The only thing is I’m quite partial to the Black Coach haha. So I may have to ****** myself and keep it in lol. What if I sent the Black Coach with 9 Spirit Hosts, Reikenor and the Chainghasts with the Bladegheists, and then the Knight of Shrouds, Spirit Torment and Guardian of Souls with the Rasps? Though that does seem like a lot of heroes buffing up only 40 rasps... 

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22 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

When considering the Cruciator vs Shroudguard dont forget to factor in +1 cp +1 artefact and fewer drops for controlling first turn 😕

Fair point!

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With the dolorous guard battalion+ emerald host allegience, you can make some relatively killy hexwraiths. Also pretty doable to fit in Lady Orlynder still, to capitalize on her synergy with them. For example:

  • KoS on steed (general)
  • Lady Orlynder
  • 15x hexwraiths
  • 10x hexwraiths
  • 10x hexwraiths
  • 5x hexwraiths
  • 5 x Harridans
  • 12x bansheees
  • 4x banshees
  • Black Coach
  • Doloros Guard
  • New battalion.

I think just fits in 2k points (or you could adjust the numbers of hexwraiths to make it fit). 5 attacks on the charge on the hexwraiths makes them decently killy, and Lady O+  the black coach to resurrect them makes them relatively sturdy. 

This list might not work but something conceptually similar might be worth trying. 

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11 hours ago, Bayul said:

Is it the first time that we see a TOTEM keyword like in KC‘s warscroll?

It is.

As far as I understand it, the keyword TOTEM means that is altering a previously-referenced ability or warscroll, rather than replacing it with a new ability. Deathless Spirits vs the Shroudguard's Frenzied Fervour, for example. The former still follows all the same rules, just gets changed, while the latter has its own rules.

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17 hours ago, Bayul said:

Is it the first time that we see a TOTEM keyword like in KC‘s warscroll?

 

5 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

It is.

As far as I understand it, the keyword TOTEM means that is altering a previously-referenced ability or warscroll, rather than replacing it with a new ability. Deathless Spirits vs the Shroudguard's Frenzied Fervour, for example. The former still follows all the same rules, just gets changed, while the latter has its own rules.

@EnixLHQ not sure what you mean there. 

As for Totem, it seems most armies have a model with that keyword and often it's a hero standard bearer. I wonder if this might be something that gets a rule in AoS 3.0. Back in the days of WHFB, each army had a hero who could be the army's Battle Standard Bearer and allowed for a generic rule and then was able to take a magic banner. Maybe it could replace the inspiring presence generic command ability and just give a small bubble. 

Anyway, it's cool that the Cruciator is Nighthaunt's version of a standard bearer, though I'd reckon it really ought to be the Guardian of Souls. 

10 hours ago, Frowny said:

With the dolorous guard battalion+ emerald host allegience, you can make some relatively killy hexwraiths. Also pretty doable to fit in Lady Orlynder still, to capitalize on her synergy with them. For example:

  • KoS on steed (general)
  • Lady Orlynder
  • 15x hexwraiths
  • 10x hexwraiths
  • 10x hexwraiths
  • 5x hexwraiths
  • 5 x Harridans
  • 12x bansheees
  • 4x banshees
  • Black Coach
  • Doloros Guard
  • New battalion.

I think just fits in 2k points (or you could adjust the numbers of hexwraiths to make it fit). 5 attacks on the charge on the hexwraiths makes them decently killy, and Lady O+  the black coach to resurrect them makes them relatively sturdy. 

This list might not work but something conceptually similar might be worth trying. 

I think that the Dolorous Guard battalion is going away either with the FAQs or the summer update. So I wouldn't spend too much time planning around it. 

11 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Feels like we needed another mounted hero. Anyone else?

We've already got 3... that's more than most armies. I still say that the Black Coach should be a hero or get a hero option, but I don't think another mounted hero... or even really another hero is needed for Nighthaunt. The only things the range truly needs IMO are an updated Hexwraith model and a Games Workshop replacement for the Mourngul. 

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Perhaps.

We dont have an aura mounted hero is what I meant.

We have the KoS with a cmd ability, the Harrow which is a mediocre beatstick with an odd vestigial synergy and teleportation shenanigans, and a caster.

 

You are correct that we have a ton of characters; and that seems to be more of a symptom of a Faction with poor design, that gets characters added on as a token gesture each year rather than any meaningful book updates or model releases (necrons suffered the same for years)

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I don’t know if you guys care about this stuff in this thread, but I speed painted a group of 10 rasps. I’m pretty pleased with them, even though they’re pretty vanilla haha.

6AEC7512-D43F-4E78-88BC-EBB96884490F.jpeg

Edited by Tiberius501
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59 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I don’t know if you guys care about this stuff in this thread, but I speed painted a group of 10 rasps. I’m pretty pleased with them, even though they’re pretty vanilla haha.

6AEC7512-D43F-4E78-88BC-EBB96884490F.jpeg

They look class. 

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12 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

@EnixLHQ not sure what you mean there. 

As for Totem, it seems most armies have a model with that keyword and often it's a hero standard bearer. I wonder if this might be something that gets a rule in AoS 3.0. Back in the days of WHFB, each army had a hero who could be the army's Battle Standard Bearer and allowed for a generic rule and then was able to take a magic banner. Maybe it could replace the inspiring presence generic command ability and just give a small bubble. 

It was a stab at trying to define it. I just noticed that units with the TOTEM key word in other armies tend to be altering standing rules of an army in some way instead of replacing or tacking on. The KC is altering Deathless Spirits to lower the existing value by 1, so TOTEM, but the Deathbeat Drummer of a unit of Glaivewraith Stalkers, which is a standard bearer, enables retreat and charge, which doesn't gain the keyword. Adding retreat is an addition to the rule.

The way I'm seeing it, TOTEM is another way of saying "this unit will modify a golden/allegiant/army rule somewhere." And because GW is very strict with the way they word things, modify is different than adding or removing.

I'll write the FAQs team about it, because I think we need to be sure and there may be tactics and rules to be aware of with such a keyword.

11 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

I don’t know if you guys care about this stuff in this thread, but I speed painted a group of 10 rasps. I’m pretty pleased with them, even though they’re pretty vanilla haha.

6AEC7512-D43F-4E78-88BC-EBB96884490F.jpeg

Yes we care! How beautiful! I am always in constant jealousy of everyone else's paint jobs around here.

8 hours ago, Squig Gobbla said:

Hello fellow Nighthaunt players i am completely new to the army but i have a pretty nice collection of minis for it.

Welcome! Our graves are fresh and our torment eternal. Here's your bloody rusted glaive, have fun stabbing the fleshies!

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Have a few friends taking the dive into AoS so figured i'd join them. Been playing 40k for years so I know how rough it can be to play an outdated/underpowered army. So, with that being said, give it to me straight, how bad are Nighthaunt? I really really wanna play the spooky crew but I have not heard good things. My friends will eventually level up to local tourneys with maybe a large one once or twice a year and don't wanna get stuck with a very subpar faction as I did in 40k years past. Are we viable, at all?

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1 hour ago, Radikus said:

Have a few friends taking the dive into AoS so figured i'd join them. Been playing 40k for years so I know how rough it can be to play an outdated/underpowered army. So, with that being said, give it to me straight, how bad are Nighthaunt? I really really wanna play the spooky crew but I have not heard good things. My friends will eventually level up to local tourneys with maybe a large one once or twice a year and don't wanna get stuck with a very subpar faction as I did in 40k years past. Are we viable, at all?

Nighthaunt are fine but overall but they have a few glaring weaknesses. The biggest one is power creep. They were one of the first 2 books out of the gate this edition of AoS and it shows. There were some interesting design choices like "wholly within" for buffs/auras but in hindsight those turned out to be a bit harsh and future books ended up being a bit more relaxed in that regard. 
What this means in practice is that it can be quite difficult for us to get all our buff auras in the right spot, and some larger units on 32mm bases are nearly impossible to fit within the buff bubbles, especially if you want to maximise how many are in range to fight.  

The other big problem we have is that in recent times it's become a bit too easy to snipe heroes. There's so many spells, mortal wounds and strong shooting (Seraphon, Kharadron Overlords and Lumineth) that our low wound ethereal heroes don't last long. 
And unfortunately, as an army we're heavily dependant on them. That's where all our buffs and survivability and resurrection and mobility comes from. 

The new rules coming out soon in the Belakor book might help fix a few of those issues (such as squishy characters) so we might see a small bump in power. 
Don't get too caught up in tournament win rates. NH are a difficult faction to make work, but they can be quite good if played well. 
A competitive player should easily place in the middle of the pack at a tournament and with a bit of luck/practice can still do well. 

We have some great army wide rules like everyone being ethereal (immune to rend) and flying. We have some decent units though some are a bit overcosted. The models look great and for the most part it can be quite easy to start a NH army because of all the easy to build kits and people splitting starter boxes. Also pretty easy to paint up an army quickly. 

There are some armies at the moment that are head and shoulders above the rest (the 3 I mentioned above and probably Tzeentch) for the reasons I mentioned above (good shooting and high MW output). 
None of mid-low tier armies will compete overly well with those top dogs right now. But throughout all the other factions in the mid tier, NH do fine. 

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All right, I’m jumping in and buying a Black Coach today after liking it on TTS and wanting to run Death Riders now. 
 

I have a tournament a week from Saturday, so what tips do you all have on building and painting it? I’m not a good painter by any means, so I’ll just be doing a tabletop job. Also, and recommendations on basing it? My army had cotton on the bases to look like fog... but I’m planning on switching to a spooky fall themed basing pattern. 

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On 4/19/2021 at 7:14 AM, Tiberius501 said:

I don’t know if you guys care about this stuff in this thread, but I speed painted a group of 10 rasps. I’m pretty pleased with them, even though they’re pretty vanilla haha.

6AEC7512-D43F-4E78-88BC-EBB96884490F.jpeg

Dude, how did you get that sweet teal color? I love it!

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7 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:



The other big problem we have is that in recent times it's become a bit too easy to snipe heroes. There's so many spells, mortal wounds and strong shooting (Seraphon, Kharadron Overlords and Lumineth) that our low wound ethereal heroes don't last long. 
And unfortunately, as an army we're heavily dependant on them. That's where all our buffs and survivability and resurrection and mobility comes from. 
 

You're exactly right, and it's just further proof that AoS needs to adopt 40k's "Look Out Sir!" rules. That alone would make NH FAR better in the current OP shooting meta. 

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