AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Uvatha]

On 5/31/2020 at 4:16 PM, UNIBROWshapist said:

I know it’s not too original, but I love the glowy green of these hexwraith drapes from the tome. Unfortunately I’m a terrible painter and don’t know what I’m doing. 
 

Anyone know what the paint guide would be to get that glowing green that’s on the hexwraith drapes (possibly the same as the harrow’s stead)?

 

Hello,
I have been looking for the same thing!
I believe this is the same or derived colour scheme as the one used for the photo in AoS Grand Alliance Death book.
I have not found it documented anywhere and I have tried to approach as close as I could to this colour, using:

1. Basecoat Corax white
2. Mix of Hexwraith Flame + Nihilak Oxyde + Lahmian
3. Drybrushing in Ulthuan Grey
4. Layer in Ulthuan Grey

Here below my WIP attempt.. 🙂

[EnixLHQ]

That's better than the book! So jealous!

[Uvatha]

12 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

That's better than the book! So jealous!

☺️😘

[Greasygeek]

23 hours ago, Uvatha said:

Hello,
I have been looking for the same thing!
I believe this is the same or derived colour scheme as the one used for the photo in AoS Grand Alliance Death book.
I have not found it documented anywhere and I have tried to approach as close as I could to this colour, using:

1. Basecoat Corax white
2. Mix of Hexwraith Flame + Nihilak Oxyde + Lahmian
3. Drybrushing in Ulthuan Grey
4. Layer in Ulthuan Grey

Here below my WIP attempt.. 🙂

If your aiming to match the book image. I think you need to throw in some green glaze for the flames and kabalite green, and Coelia Greenshade for the robe. You also need some White Scar to make the ghostly part more glowy in its brightest highlights. My guess for the robe would be something like:

base: incubi darkness

highlight: Kabalite green

Highlight: Gauseblaster green 

Glaze: Coelia Greenshade.

then maybe redo highlights. 
 

[Uvatha]

20 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

If your aiming to match the book image. I think you need to throw in some green glaze for the flames and kabalite green, and Coelia Greenshade for the robe. You also need some White Scar to make the ghostly part more glowy in its brightest highlights. My guess for the robe would be something like:

base: incubi darkness

highlight: Kabalite green

Highlight: Gauseblaster green 

Glaze: Coelia Greenshade.

then maybe redo highlights. 
 

I think your colour scheme will probably work! 👍
However, personally (and I think UNIBROWshapist as well) I was only looking for the horse robe colour scheme, not the one of the horseman for which I already decided to apply something blueish more consistent with rest of my army  

[EnixLHQ]

The Briar Queen. You know her. You may even love her. But do you play her?

Fellow Mortarchs, have you played the Briar Queen in any of your AoS lists, and if so what were your results and feelings about her?

I'm curious since she has a decent ranged attack and can slow down some fast units with her spell if she has any competitive purpose in a Nighthaunt list. 

[Jabbuk]

31 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

The Briar Queen. You know her. You may even love her. But do you play her?

Fellow Mortarchs, have you played the Briar Queen in any of your AoS lists, and if so what were your results and feelings about her?

I'm curious since she has a decent ranged attack and can slow down some fast units with her spell if she has any competitive purpose in a Nighthaunt list. 

Hey man, apparently she does. Ash McKewan (spelling?) a very good Nighthaunt player in the tournament scene, uses her a lot. He talks in depth about her in AoS Coach Nighthaunt Faction focus. Check it out on YouTube

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jabbuk

[EnixLHQ]

17 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Hey man, apparently she does. Ash McKewan (spelling?) a very good Nighthaunt player in the tournament scene, uses her a lot. He talks in depth about her in AoS Coach Nighthaunt Faction focus. Check it out on YouTube

Ash McEwan (@ash_mcewan) and way ahead of you there.

I'm asking if any of you have used her, and to what effect.

[Oak7603]

Love the colours @Greasygeek but god I hate those Hexwraith models!

[Greasygeek]

6 hours ago, Oak7603 said:

Love the colours @Greasygeek but god I hate those Hexwraith models!

Feel you. In no way do they match the Nighthaunt design. Really did a lot of work on my own bunch when I did the Emerald Host.

 

[Greasygeek]

10 hours ago, Uvatha said:

However, personally (and I think UNIBROWshapist as well) I was only looking for the horse robe colour scheme, not the one of the horseman for which I already decided to apply something blueish more consistent with rest of my army  

Sure. I think the horse robes are even more Simple. Though Hexwraith might do the trick also, I suspect these were painted before the Hexwraith Flame were released so I think they did something like this:

undercoat: Corax White

then just glazing itup

Building layers using green glaze thinned down with Lahmian medium.maybe they gave the robes a basecoat of White (maybe even White scar).

finallalize it with some edge highlights using White Scar.

 

[UNIBROWshapist]

Thanks very much guys! @Greasygeek @Uvatha 

Yours looks great @Uvatha!!! 

 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Hey folks,

So I've been out of the game for...a while, basically since the Nighthaunt book dropped. Where are they at these days? What's worth picking up, what rules are available, and what despicable usurpers are there these days for Nagash to send them against?

[Sception]

4 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Hey folks,

So I've been out of the game for...a while, basically since the Nighthaunt book dropped. Where are they at these days? What's worth picking up, what rules are available, and what despicable usurpers are there these days for Nagash to send them against?

They're a mid tier army that wins big or loses big based on your ability to roll 10" charges out of deep strike, like they have been since release.

The main changeup is the legion of grief rule set from the stormvault campaign that effectively lets you run a nighthaunt army using legion of nagash faction rules, so you can be an unreliable but aggressive deep strike shock assault army using the nighthaunt rules or a more reliable but less aggressive attrition army banking on ethereal saves + gravesite healing to grind your opponent down over time using the legion of grief rules.

neither is exacyly top tier at tournaments lately, but the versatility in play style with more or less the same models is impressive.

[Vasshpit]

@CoffeeGrunt

We did get a few new battalions via White Dwarf worth looking up.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Vasshpit

[Neck-Romantic]

We are still in limbo (lol) waiting for a bit of a re-work to the book 

[EnixLHQ]

On 6/14/2020 at 8:23 AM, CoffeeGrunt said:

Hey folks,

So I've been out of the game for...a while, basically since the Nighthaunt book dropped. Where are they at these days? What's worth picking up, what rules are available, and what despicable usurpers are there these days for Nagash to send them against?

I'm going to politely disagree with the current consensus (as I tend to do).

While we are a bit weaker in the battletome (read: Wave of Terror) than a lot of current armies, we have great warscroll cards and very strong battalion choices. We also have some stinkers, but who doesn't? In terms of highly competitive play, we're not an over-50% army, but there are a number of factors for that including the new Death hotness that is OBR, the high mastery ceiling of Nighthaunt in general, our lack of an all-comers one-list (though, again, I kind of disagree here, too and am working on a variation of the 18th place CanCon list), and the sudden 'rona before we could really lean into our new battalions at the tournament level.

Nighthaunt suffers from the deceptively simple rules that forces players really dig in and learn their tricks be aware of their weaknesses. If you love the models and don't mind losing a bunch of games until you figure out what fits your playstyle, then go for it. If you want an easy-win army that almost everyone else at the table is going to find a slog to chew through and concede on turn 3 just to be rid of you? Go OBR or the new Tzeentch.

You can look at my guide if you want my full, and very long, opinion and attempt to change the perception of the army.

[Oak7603]

55 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

You can look at my guide if you want my full, and very long, opinion and attempt to change the perception of the army.

A must read for any NH player 😁😎

[EnixLHQ]

Guide update!

• Added All To Come Within the Fold, a section that touches on the Mourngul and the Thorns of the Briar Queen. It's located after Battery-Powered Curse Hearse
• Cleared up some text about Spirit Torment's Captured Soul Energy ability that was bothering me
• All instances of "artefact" now match GW's choice of spelling

And coming soon my take on the all-comers competitive list. It's currently 3-0 against Living City, Graywater Fastness, and OBR Petrifex. I'm tooling it a bit and will see how it fares next, and if it does well I'll add it to the guide.

[LordPrometheus]

8 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Guide update!

• Added All To Come Within the Fold, a section that touches on the Mourngul and the Thorns of the Briar Queen. It's located after Battery-Powered Curse Hearse
• Cleared up some text about Spirit Torment's Captured Soul Energy ability that was bothering me
• All instances of "artefact" now match GW's choice of spelling

And coming soon my take on the all-comers competitive list. It's currently 3-0 against Living City, Graywater Fastness, and OBR Petrifex. I'm tooling it a bit and will see how it fares next, and if it does well I'll add it to the guide.

Mind posting this list here, just for fun? I'd love to see it.

[Vasshpit]

@EnixLHQ and the link to your guide, please  🙂

[lare2]

7 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@EnixLHQ and the link to your guide, please  🙂

Go to his profile. You can find it under blogs 👍

[EnixLHQ]

2 hours ago, LordPrometheus said:

Mind posting this list here, just for fun? I'd love to see it.

I suppose that's fair. Would like to see how it works for others.

Mortal Rain (one-list candidate)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Spirit Torment (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

Behemoths
Black Coach (220)

Battalions
The Dolorous Guard (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

In order to have a list stand up to any challenger, it has to both play up its own strengths to a high level while also exposing a weakness in the enemy that can be easily and repeatedly exploited. This list seeks to capitalize on From the Underworlds They Come, wizard coverage, and movement speed to allow you to dynamically adjust to your opponent and battleplan. It will also make liberal use of Frightful Touch and other mortal wound generating attacks and abilities to exploit a universal weakness among opponent armies: high or non-existent mortal wound shrugs. This makes this list suitable against hordes, elites, and multi-wound heroes while also providing enough bodies to claim objectives and protect key ones.

Goals: Primary - Shred enemy threat units. Secondary - Shred enemy objective campers. Tertiary - Claim up to 4 objectives and roam for more.

Underworlds: Up to any 5 units, decided by opponent and battleplan.

How it works: There are a few guidelines to follow.

First, Command Points should be used on re-rolling charges for Wave of Terror. Priority for WoT chances will be Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths. Don't use points on anything else but WoT chances.

Second, the Spirit Torment is the general, and with his Pendant of the Fell Wind should be nice and tight with the Spirit Hosts. This gives the entire group 9" of movement, reroll 1's on their Frightful Touch attacks, and full-model return on any dead Spirit Hosts regardless of how many wounds are currently allocated. Coupled with Captured Soul Energy which should be used to keep the ST healed or spot-remove wounds on a Spirit Host, this becomes your primary threat composition and should head straight for the scariest opponent target. This is the only hero/unit configuration I would never break up. The rest below can if you see a tactical advantage in doing so.

Third, the Dolorous Guard is not there to give the general more wounds, but instead to buff the Hexwraiths attacks and provide the extra CP and artefact. The DG should pal around with Reikenor since they have similar movement, which should ensure they have hero cover while they charge and shred distant or exposed targets. Unlike the Spirit Host configuration above, the DG and Reikenor can be dynamically used. They will be great against horde units, exposed heroes, objective snagging, or putting pressure at a key location. Be sure to use Reikenor's candles on enemy models that grant buffs to their units, and it's likely he'll be in the best position to lay out the Prismatic Palisade in a favorable spot.

Fourth, Lady Olynder and 10 Chainrasps should always stick together. She needs a screen to provide some protection and provide Look Out, Sir! for a shot at durability. In this list she is a distraction ploy; she'll wreak havoc if not dealt with but isn't so important to us for winning that we need to keep her alive. She will be best used right when you anticipate your opponent is going to try to push forward on you, and so would almost always be in the Underworlds waiting.

Fifth, the Black Coach will play its usual two roles. In the beginning, you will make a choice of either having it hang back with the Spirit Hosts if you think you will lose more models than Ruler of the Spirit Host can return, or have it move with the Hexwraiths to make sure they stay at max size. Or, you can have it run-up to a loose objective. Once it's empowered enough you can consider using it offensively, but I wouldn't send it out against any elites.

Lastly, the Guardian of Souls and his big block of 40 'rasps are for whatever you might need a thick blob of wounds on the table. Clearly grabbing an objective is one place to put them, and if there is a hotly contended objective they can last the fight to keep it. They can also remain in your backfield if your opponent has any zone-in abilities or deep strike. They will be slow, so keep that in mind.

What ends up in Underworlds will be completely up to you, but you will have a lot of options. I would give a recommendation, but other than always having the Black Coach and the Spirit Torment/Spirit Host blob on the table at the start it will come down to the battle plan, the coverage you need to protect yourself in the early game, opponent speed and zone-in, and any number of other variables.

Like I mentioned already, the list is 3-0.

Against Graywater Fastness I only kept Olynder and her screen in reserves, I won the priority and passed it off  to my opponent, and mortal wounded his fast damage units off the table in my opening push. He lost the priority roll for turn 2 and conceded.

Against Living City this game went the distance to the bottom of turn 5. I went first. Just like against Graywater, my Spirit Hosts eviscerated his threat ranged units and a couple heroes on the first turn. Hexwraiths ended up having to split off from Reikenor, but made up for it with their WoT charges and grabbing objectives. His ability to summon more units, heal up on every turn, and Alarielle just being a beast kept him in the game after that. Taking on Alarielle with anything other than the Spirit Hosts was a bad idea, and had I not tried I think I could have ended the game early. That being said, by the end of the game it came down to a charge roll just to keep more bodies on a contended objective to win the points at the end of the turn.

Against OBR it went 3 turns. Knowing the slowness of this particular army and their lack of zone-in, I opted to put the GoS and 40 rasps into Underworlds along with Olynder and her screen. I gave up priority to let my opponent move slowly up as much as they could, and then I returned the march by slamming my Spirit Hosts into their Mortek Guard, my Hexwraiths into their Deathriders, and dropping Olynder on one side of their catapults and GoS and 'rasps on the other side. The Petrifex rend was useless against me, though they could still do pretty good damage, but their enhanced saves were useless against my mortal wounds and their 6+ wasn't enough on its own for them to hold out. In terms of keeping bodies on the table Living City was harder to stand up to because I had to constantly fight and contend, but the trick against OBR was to grab objectives and just engage in fights outside their range and let the points add up. They just can't get out of a fight once dragged in.

Edited June 16, 2020 by EnixLHQ

[Sception]

Nighthaunt should be pretty good against obr specifically.  They (we, since I play them) are pretty bad at the objective game since as a general rule they're both rather expensive so they won't have a lot of models or units and kind of slow so they have a harder time reaching objectives  outside of their deployment zone.  Kind of ironic given the faction's narrative focus on taking and holding territory.  Additionally, as you point out they invest a lot of resources in having -1 to -2 rend on most of their units, which Nighthaunt ignores outright.  They're also lacking in mortal wound output, and have relatively weak casting for a death army unless they're fielding Arkhan or Nagash, but taking either of them further exacerbates their difficulties with board control.

Just take some objectives,  deep strike in to silence any catapults since they usually won't have the numbers to properly screeen them without putting themselves even further behind on table control, block the advance of their melee units with some sacrificial ghosts, and you should be good.  If you actually have the mortal wound output to kill them outright, that's just adding insult to injury.

Don't get me wrong, Petrifex are bad dudes in general, very hard to beat in a scrum for armies that rely on winning scrums to win the game, but in the (admittedly few) games I've played against nighthaunt so far, they've mostly been able to ignore my strengths and turn my weaknesses into fatal flaws.  Considering that new hotness Tzeentch are also a less-than-ideal matchup for OBR (very vulnerable to mortals at range, don't have the casting power to even begin to check their magic phase, tzeentch like nighthaunt can run rings around OBR in the objective game), and I'm not sure how much OBR you'll actually have to worry about on the tourney scene, once the scene starts up again.

You do still see Nagash sometimes, and I wonder if Nagash lists might be a bigger worry, and thus worth more consideration in terms of countering, than generic OBR lists.  His ability to chaingun arcane bolts can down your support heroes, self healing + decent mortal shrug, teleportation protection of nagash to put him wherever you least want him, etc.  Again the objective game starts in your favor, and Nagash, much like OBR generally, relies a lot on high rend damage output which you can shrug with ethereal saves, but even so.  I haven't run nagash in obr yet, let alone against nighthaunt specifically, so I might be way off base, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on fighting him.

[EnixLHQ]

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

I haven't run nagash in obr yet, let alone against nighthaunt specifically, so I might be way off base, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on fighting him.

Nagash is something else. I can't say much because I haven't been pitted against him, but the three big takeaways on his warscroll card to me are his 8 spells at +3, huge mortal wound negation range and potential reflect, and army-wide RR1s to hit and save CA. Able to lob 8-24 mortal wounds at 18" depending on roll, decent movement and attacks... But at nearly 900 points that's half an army tied up in one unit.

What would I do? Make him chew through 40 Chainrasps. At most he can do 54 damage if the player rolled perfectly, half of which is mortal wounds, so the unit wouldn't last long. But with good support you could probably do enough chip damage to lower his profile enough to make him manageable. I just wouldn't go in thinking I'm going to kill him, rather make his player make choices on if he's going to spend his time cutting the 'rasps down or targetting my other units which will be busy snatching up objectives. All you have to do is run out the clock, and you will effectively be fighting an atrophied army once you tie him down.