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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

From a strictly competitive point of view, that's the sad truth as we speak... at least, that's my opinion... but! The moment you manage to snatch a victory with pure Nighthaunt against a cheesy list (did someone say Tzeench?), you suddenly realise you are actually good at this game... 

What's LoG and how is it played? 

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1 hour ago, Dredgejosh said:

What's LoG and how is it played? 

1805872015_LegionofGrief.png.9c19c5aeca41b18b691efa5d0f389c8a.png

Forbidden Power included the above in the supplement. It allows you to field Deadwalkers, Deathlords, Deathmages, Deathrattle, and Nighthaunt units as allegiant. So you can take the entirety of the Nighthaunt line as LoG, if you want, but can also take Necromancers and things like a Corpse Cart.

The biggest draw of LoG are the gravesites. Via Unquiet Dead you can place 4 of these on the board; 2 in your territory and 2 anywhere else on the field. If you are within range of these gravesites you can use them to store units (like From the Underworlds, but only units with the Summonable keyword can go in there and require a hero to pull them out), use Invigorating Aura to heal up Summonable units D3 once from each gravesite, and Endless Minions that allow you to resurrect an entire destroyed summonable unit for a Command Point, so long as your general is the one doing it.

This alone is why LoG is considered "more competitive" than Nighthaunt. Your general can take the Vassal of the Craven King Command Trait to give you a CP each time you spend one and then roll a 5+, and if paired with the Aetherquartz Brooch you get two chances at those CP and, if you're lucky, net two-for-one occasionally. I had 9 CP at the end of a game, once. Use those to keep resurrecting units, All-Out Attack, All-Out Defense, At The Double, and Forward to Victory, and both of the KoS's CAs, then you can almost enjoy the fact there are no battalions, practically no spells, and an artifact list you'll never touch.

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7 hours ago, Thamalys said:

It's an interesting list, fairly balanced and with some potential for decent damage. The Vampire Lord (VL) is an auto-include in every Nighthaunt list of mine.

[...]

The Necromancer is also quite good - I did run one in a couple of LoN lists some time ago... Still a solid choice - not sure is an autoinclude, but definitely worth thinking about it.

Whenever I run a VL my shooty opponents trip over themselves to lodge 30 rend shots into his forehead. Necromancer gets the same treatment. Basically, if it isn't ethereal it has a high chance of being directly targeted, and I always felt like I needed to shove him up the field along with the units he's supporting, so I'm basically delivering him on a platter. Look Out, Sir! doesn't seem to help much. It becomes a choice of {if opponent ranged=true; then no VL}. Which is more and more likely these days.

I'd love to hear some strategies on fielding and protecting both VLs and Necros so that they can be useful.

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I just want to thank the people that responded. This place is super awesome and i'm glad I found it. I'll tell you how I did with the 1k list. Come 2 weeks it will be 1500 and I assume nighthaunt get better there. 

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I just won my first game with Nighthaunt tonight! I beat Daughters of Khaine using the Emerald Host super battalion that was in White Dwarf a few months back. I am still getting used to playing them, but I was able to hit him hard with a couple of lucky wave of terrors. 

Just wanted to share. Lol

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3 hours ago, Koujow said:

I just won my first game with Nighthaunt tonight! I beat Daughters of Khaine using the Emerald Host super battalion that was in White Dwarf a few months back. I am still getting used to playing them, but I was able to hit him hard with a couple of lucky wave of terrors. 

Just wanted to share. Lol

Congrats💪
 

Btw. I love how the Nighthaunt thread has become some kind of looses club, for all of us to meet and celebrate every time one of us achieve a victory. 
I wonder how things go over at Petrifex Inc😉. Do they have the same mentality or do you get shamed out for loosing a game?!

Keep up the good fight and remember that it was people like us who stopped the Demogorgon🤪

 

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On 2/26/2020 at 9:47 PM, Greasygeek said:

Congrats💪
 

Btw. I love how the Nighthaunt thread has become some kind of looses club, for all of us to meet and celebrate every time one of us achieve a victory. 
I wonder how things go over at Petrifex Inc😉. Do they have the same mentality or do you get shamed out for loosing a game?!

Keep up the good fight and remember that it was people like us who stopped the Demogorgon🤪

 

How dare you, sir! If I didn't get the reference I might just be offended. I said good day! 😡

Seriously though, it can be hard when the army you chose is the whipping boy of the game. You can literally hear the eye-rolling whenever we're brought up in podcasts and tournament coverage, and the snickering over our competitive standing can get annoying especially when they come from meta-chasers. But, as someone I might cyber-stalk (you can't prove it) has said recently, both AoS and 40k are shifting back toward the "play what you think is cool" mentality with GW's balancing and content updates. And I can agree; recent stats coming from tournaments are showing Nighthaunt beating both LoG and LoN!

I grabbed onto Nighthaunt because I'm a spooky scary kind of guy, and the "rule of cool" is very real. You think painting thousands of points of an army you love is hard? Try doing it when you just don't really care about the aesthetic you're slathering primer on.

Maybe all those souls I sent screaming to Nagash is starting to pay off. 🤔

Edited by EnixLHQ
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It's rather typical that when I finally jump to the AoS side of things I pick a bad army :P But yeah, if I don't like the aesthetics of the army, it's non-starter given the cost and all. I'm not looking to play competitively, but even so at least having a fighting chance is nice. But maybe it's payback for currently mostly playing marines while trying to get a routine going playing 40k.

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Is Legion of Grief still considered the superior option vs Nighthaunt? The battalions from the Emerald Host seem to have given the faction a boost overall right? I’ve been seeing some better tournament results posted lately at any rate. 

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16 minutes ago, XcaliburNick said:

Is Legion of Grief still considered the superior option vs Nighthaunt? The battalions from the Emerald Host seem to have given the faction a boost overall right? I’ve been seeing some better tournament results posted lately at any rate. 

The armies are played very differently. With a lot of NH you want minimum sized units to fish for wave of terror.  Whereas LoG wants larger units to just bring them back for one command point when they get wiped. I've played it both ways and NH seems like a more fun, "different" army all about speed and teleporting. Whereas LoG seems just like Legions of Nagash with different units.  I do hope they make a new narrative book for Death and clean up the NH/LoG rules. NH needs better abilities and LoG is awful for Olynder because she misses out on the great command abilities so she is rarely taken.

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57 minutes ago, XcaliburNick said:

Is Legion of Grief still considered the superior option vs Nighthaunt? The battalions from the Emerald Host seem to have given the faction a boost overall right? I’ve been seeing some better tournament results posted lately at any rate. 

I haven't actually seen the list that took 3-0 at Sheffield, but it was enough to raise Nighthaunt from 47.3% winrate to 60%. Well, at least at Sheffield. The first number is the meta average overall last year while the second is how we did in a single event. It remains to be seen if that ends up being a trend or not. Without seeing the list we don't know if the new battalions made the difference or if the player took advantage of the meta those games with a more traditional list.

I think the Emerald Host battalions are a huge boost to our competitive strength, and I think it can put us at 50%+ in the meta, which is competitive. I also think they are a bit too pricey, at least Forgotten Scions, so it may take a while before we see a lot of players willing to take chances with them.

But, it's clear the new Tzeentch armies, even after the FAQs, are a bane to LoG and any other army that lacks movement tricks. They can resurrect a whole unit, but what does that matter if they're all locked down and do nothing to grab objectives? Movement is key, and Nighthaunt naturally counter a lot of things that stop other armies. In a way, we can thank Tzeentch for opening up a spot in the meta for us.

🍻 Here's to a competitive year!

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Thanks @EnixLHQ! Great beginner's guide BTW, good advice to start off with.

Looks like Sheffield Slaughter 2020 was Ceri Robson and he went 3-2. I also can't find the list, but it looked like in the pics from twitter that he used a Spirit Host unit, some Chainrasps and bladegheist revenants, and a foot knight of shrouds. I think I saw a mounted as well, but not sure.

 

 

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Is there any potential to running Olynder and Kurdoss in an army? Maybe with the Dolorous Guard? I really want to try Kurdoss, such a cool model!

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4 hours ago, XcaliburNick said:

Thanks @EnixLHQ! Great beginner's guide BTW, good advice to start off with.

Looks like Sheffield Slaughter 2020 was Ceri Robson and he went 3-2. I also can't find the list, but it looked like in the pics from twitter that he used a Spirit Host unit, some Chainrasps and bladegheist revenants, and a foot knight of shrouds. I think I saw a mounted as well, but not sure.

 

 

It would be worthwhile checking which armies and players he matched up against also.

The Honest Wargamer podcast mentioned a lot of newer players were at the event so that + favourable match-ups could have meant for some easy games which might not reflect the standings overall.

Though this remains true overall considering that events are usually 5 games and so you only ever face a small percentage of armies.

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88129921_2969509206421699_6380347065519570944_n.jpg.e10cb34e87b0d9e1c15825696b9927fa.jpg

Hi, I have a question regarding running multiple Black Coaches. The question is if you do this 2 times if you have two coaches (roll a total of 6 dice for each coach)?

When reading the rule it sounds like you do this 2 times because of "roll 2 dice for each black coach" (and you have two models with this ability) and not something like "roll 3 dice for this model". I can't find any information about this when reading the errata or designers commentary, and i have never seen someone take two coaches in a list before.  

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10 hours ago, XcaliburNick said:

Is there any potential to running Olynder and Kurdoss in an army? Maybe with the Dolorous Guard? I really want to try Kurdoss, such a cool model!

I mean, run what you love and/or want to run. I love Olynder, and with the Dolorous Guard she's damn formidable. Just mind your Command Points because you'll need them to restore her retinue. That also means knowing when to spend them. Kurdoss can be fun, too, but you have to be aware of what he's for. His CP steal ability only steals the CP your opponent gets at the top of the round and nothing else (though he doesn't need to be the general to try), so you have a very narrow opportunity to benefit from it. If you're lucky, you'll net 2+, but if you're not, none. That means he becomes a very expensive model who's only other purpose is to hunt the enemy general and show it your beatstick all close and personal. Kurdoss is great for that, but is he worth the points in that role (especially since you'd not likely send him alone)? Up to you. I've done it, it was fun, not to mention being a conversation starter when my opponent asked me why I sent the flying chair to beat his general up.

4 hours ago, Evillincoln547 said:

Is this a good list? I’m also running cogs and palisades 

5570CF5B-4D2E-4942-9CCB-9DE4CD586508.png

I'm guessing the Spirit Hosts are your objective holders? Elite hunters? As a list it can work, but if feels a bit too slow for me. It depends on what you expect to run up against. Those 20 Chainrasp Horde, unless supported by a buffing hero or a battalion, are just 20 5+ saves that will disappear on you and those points might be better somewhere else.

4 hours ago, Sauriv said:

88129921_2969509206421699_6380347065519570944_n.jpg.e10cb34e87b0d9e1c15825696b9927fa.jpg

Hi, I have a question regarding running multiple Black Coaches. The question is if you do this 2 times if you have two coaches (roll a total of 6 dice for each coach)?

When reading the rule it sounds like you do this 2 times because of "roll 2 dice for each black coach" (and you have two models with this ability) and not something like "roll 3 dice for this model". I can't find any information about this when reading the errata or designers commentary, and i have never seen someone take two coaches in a list before.  

Each Black Coach gets 3 dice at the top of each battleround to determine their level.

The wording is weird, makes it seem like you had 2 Black Coaches you would grab 6 dice in total, and whatever the result is both Black Coaches are that level (possibly maxed out in turn 1), but that's not how it works here.

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Enix would you think dropping the rasps and cogs and exchanging them with another squad of 6 spirit hosts would be better? I have 18 in total lol.

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34 minutes ago, Evillincoln547 said:

Enix would you think dropping the rasps and cogs and exchanging them with another squad of 6 spirit hosts would be better? I have 18 in total lol.

Depends on your goals with the list. What's your goal, who do you expect to go up against?

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    Ok, I’ve been using the hosts from the underworlds to screen out middle objectives, and setup olynder buried behind one of the squads. The chainrasps have been getting picked up as you said lol, but I don’t have more than 20. The reapers I’ve been using to fight whatever with the teleport to my general ca , and the black coach has been supporting the spirit hosts and generally being a nuisance. 
     
    My areas meta has a good mix, gloomspite, KO, Khorne, nurgle, fec, cos, skaven,(I’m forgetting some),with most people having more than one list build so it’s hard to predict what I’ll face. A fun thing I’ve been enjoying is olynder just melting face at short range against more elite enemies. I could proxy the knight of shrouds as a dread blade harrow, his teleport movement seems really good.

 

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50 minutes ago, Evillincoln547 said:

    Ok, I’ve been using the hosts from the underworlds to screen out middle objectives, and setup olynder buried behind one of the squads. The chainrasps have been getting picked up as you said lol, but I don’t have more than 20. The reapers I’ve been using to fight whatever with the teleport to my general ca , and the black coach has been supporting the spirit hosts and generally being a nuisance. 
     
    My areas meta has a good mix, gloomspite, KO, Khorne, nurgle, fec, cos, skaven,(I’m forgetting some),with most people having more than one list build so it’s hard to predict what I’ll face. A fun thing I’ve been enjoying is olynder just melting face at short range against more elite enemies. I could proxy the knight of shrouds as a dread blade harrow, his teleport movement seems really good.

 

Gotcha.

Yes, I stand by my Chainrasp remark. Unless you batallion them up, or sit the Spirit Torment near them in the very least, they aren't doing you any favors.

One thing you could do is instead of creating another batch of 6 Spirit Hosts you could max out a unit of them to 12, pair them with either the Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed or Spirit Torment, and use either of those buffs to make them swing for more mortal wounds. Since you're fishing for 6s both are good buffs, either 84 attacks or 72 with reroll 1's net the same MW potential -about 15, so the ST would be the better way to go since it won't cost any CP. The ST can both heal them and return missing models, as well. Give whichever hero that is going with them Pendant of the Fell Winds so they can move 9" and you might have something. Just mind whichever hero you use "wholly within" range.

Not sure what your options are beyond that without knowing what you have to select from, but a fast Spirit Host wave is plenty scary. Especially if you hit Wave of Terror.

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I like the thought of the 12 spirit hosts, but it would be hard to get all of them engaged or within buff range of the ST. The knight of shrouds wholly within 18 could be possible. 

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6 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I mean, run what you love and/or want to run. I love Olynder, and with the Dolorous Guard she's damn formidable. Just mind your Command Points because you'll need them to restore her retinue. That also means knowing when to spend them. Kurdoss can be fun, too, but you have to be aware of what he's for. His CP steal ability only steals the CP your opponent gets at the top of the round and nothing else (though he doesn't need to be the general to try), so you have a very narrow opportunity to benefit from it. If you're lucky, you'll net 2+, but if you're not, none. That means he becomes a very expensive model who's only other purpose is to hunt the enemy general and show it your beatstick all close and personal. Kurdoss is great for that, but is he worth the points in that role (especially since you'd not likely send him alone)? Up to you. I've done it, it was fun, not to mention being a conversation starter when my opponent asked me why I sent the flying chair to beat his general up.

Thanks for the info! If I'm honest I'm into Nighthaunt because I love the models, not so much for the competitiveness, right now. I just want to make sure my opponents and I have good games and not steamrolled (feel challenged).  I really like the idea of using both the "Queen and consort" of the dead, and the model is really sweet so I'll give it a go.

Any ideas what a good combination would be with both of them? Dolorous Guard I'm assuming, with Olynder as the general as you described and Kurdoss as the beatstick being aggressive with Olynder. Other than that I know MSU is typically the way to go, but it seems like having lots of small units just gets them removed.

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17 minutes ago, XcaliburNick said:

Any ideas what a good combination would be with both of them? Dolorous Guard I'm assuming, with Olynder as the general as you described and Kurdoss as the beatstick being aggressive with Olynder. Other than that I know MSU is typically the way to go, but it seems like having lots of small units just gets them removed.

Exactly that. Why not? Olynder and her Guard, with the Never-King in tow. It would be quite scary seeing that murderball coming my way. I would try to focus down Kurdoss just to stop the bleeding, though, but I think you'd accomplish your goal.

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In theory it seems like a big block of 40 Chainrasps is actually fairly durable. 5+ ethereal and a 6+ ignore wounds should survive a single round, then give you a chance to run spectral lures and healing back. I know Nighthaunt are MSU but a single big block seems to make sense to me. Thoughts?

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