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RuneBrush

AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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7 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

  2k Golden Ghost Army

Very interesting list.

Would you mind explaining some of your choices? Some like Midnight tome instead of the pendant, or your spell choices or the presence of the shards or the engine?

Thanks for sharing.

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15 hours ago, kozokus said:

Very interesting list

No worries. 

So midnight tome on the dreadblade because he's teleporting all over the place and being able to have a chance at unbinding spells is always a good thing. I give him spectral tether to have the option to heal himself or other heroes. In my list I have 7 units that can deepstrike, so having extra movement isn't that essential for me tbh. 

Lady O has reaping scythe because her attacks aren't very good, so getting rerolls to hit and wound make her semi-viable in combat. 

Kurdoss is there solely for a suicide mission. He pairs up with my dreadblade, who also acts as a reckless transport unit. Due to the small base size of both Mr.K & dreadblade, they can squeeze behind enemy lines very easily. Mr.K's sole purpose is to get into combat with the opponent's general, but getting a 10+ charge to do so. Dropping him in either turn 1 if I have to take first turn or dropping him in when it looks like I might get a chance of a double turn. If he steals CP great, but he's a suicide general killer. No one expects it and so don't screen off for a single 60mm base. 

Reik is in the list solely to get purple sun to go off. I give him soul cage on the off chance that he can use it, but the 12" range and needing to basically already be in combat for it to work makes it a bit naff imo, as most units in the game now that you'd want to use the spell on can delete Reik in a turn of combat anyway. So Reik is basically a purple sun delivery system. I also use his fast movement to help give hero support to stranded units elsewhere on the table. 

The GoS used to be the mortality glass, which was used to help units in combat retreat with his spell, but that's no longer an option. Currently using the regular one, so using spectral tether as he has options where he can heal both regular units and heroes with his spells. His +1 wound bonus rarely gets used tbh, and I'm thinking of dropping him for another torment. 

Torment is great for rerolls and healing, especially with the units of blades. 

For units, rasps are great for screening during initial deployment. They often get left alone and can be teleported across to objectives late in the game to help outnumber the opponent. 

Grims are fantastic and I should use more tbh. 

SHs aren't very good but are used to slow down big nasty units, often dying before doing anything back, but a useful tool to have access to. 

Myrmourns are an odd one, they need buffing up to be really decent but can be good for targeting minor heroes with 5 wounds or less. The small footprint of just 4 in the unit means that they can drop in pretty much anywhere. If they can get support from the torment, even better. 

Harridans are a bit meh. I include them for fluff reasons (along with the SHs). With support from the torment they can work well. As they aren't used much people don't know what they do, which is an advantage at times. Against mediocre or high bravery armies they struggle, but they can become an annoyance to lower bravery armies, due to the minus to hit. I normally combine them with Lady O, to give her some screening, and if she gets her spell off, then they can be -2 to hit whilst hitting on 3s themselves.

Blades are great, no need for explanation there. I run 2 x 5 as small assassination units, targeting minor heroes or chaff units. If I was more competitively focused I would swap my harridans for more blades, but I've converted my harridans and want to run the models (see pic). 

Purple Sun is nuts, so spikey but when you're entire army is about fishing for natural 6s & 10s it's a good fit. It's done some decent damage in every game I've used it in so far. 

Shards are taken to slow down horrible threats. The range on them is great and they can be moved a decent distance as well. Reducing your opponent's hammer unit to half range can help you survive another battle round. 

Penumbral Engine is stupid. The fact that you pay 100pts and your opponent benefits is stupid. I take it for the potential free CP, it's swingy but so are NH as an army. The 12" range is handy and a hindrance tbh, but on average it chucks out more CP than it's cost in a game. If you get the new terrain rule of 'commanding' in your deployment and you pair it with this it can get silly. Had it happen recently and got 3CP a turn (regular, Penumbral & commanding) for 3 of the 5 turns. 

The whole premises of the army is to wait until turn 2 or 3 to drop down the more offensive units. When your opponent can't tell what you are going to do, it helps your ability to counter better. Taking MSUs for most stuff means that you can happily sacrifice a unit to claim objectives or to drop in and screen against a gross threat and it's not a big loss if they die.

Could I make changes to optimise it further, yes, will I do that, no, because I like using the models in the army and having an much of a variety as possible. Would putting fast units like hexwraiths or the black coach work, not really, because those units rely on a modicum of support to be effective, whereas I've gone for stuff that can be as self sufficient as possible.

Will I get smashed in certain match ups, yes, but those 'getting tabled' match ups would happen regardless of what's in my list, as NH don't have effective counters to the more punishing elements in the game, eg. Activation wars, mortal wound spam & weight of numbers with attacks and ranged shooting attacks. Yes we have a 4+ ethereal and if lucky a 6+ death save but having to save 20 mortal wounds or 50 regular 1 damage attacks will generally cripple any unit, regardless of ethereal and death saves. 

I hope that (lengthy) explanation helps with any thoughts you might have with your own list building. 

 

Screenshot_20190802_102241.jpg

Edited by Tropical Ghost General
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6 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Necron Flayed One claws

Being that they are currently fine cast (and expensive) you might have better luck using lighting claw claws and a bit of greenstuff. It's what I've used to make flayed ones from standard necron warriors instead.

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I was inspired by the idea of an optimized list for Nighthaunt not based on just using the stuff we/I like and came up with this:

 

Harrow (General/RotSH/Aetherquartz Brooch)

Reikenor (Soul Cage)

Spirit Torment (Pendant of the Fell Wind)

Guardian of Souls w/ Nightmare Lantern

40 Chainrasps

40 Chainrasps

10 Reapers

 2 Chainghasts

10 Bladegheists

10 Bladegheists

The Condemned battalion/Chronomantic Cogs/Purple Sun/Command Point

2000 pts exactly.

136 wounds/7 drops/2 command points

 

I'd set up the Chainrasps on the table. They'll be a massive footprint that you can use to grab objectives, tarpit an opponent's model/unit, and just have board control. With the re-rolls they get out of the battalion, they can actually sneak in a little damage at times too which might take an opponent by surprise. They'll still wilt pretty easily to most combat units, but they have enough wounds for it to take more than a single combat phase. Reikenor starts on the board too and sends out Purple Sun as soon as possible to give the opponent something to think about.

The Reapers and two units of Bladegheists will then be used to deepstrike. On the turn when you think you'll deep strike them, cast Cogs.

 

Overall, I think if someone wants to be as competitive as possible with Nighthaunt, you've got to have two units of 40 Chainrasps. They're cheap and so very useful to have as the big footprint unit you deploy in the beginning of the game, which gives you more freedom with your better stuff. Now, I don't care for huge units like that, so I would probably never field it. But that's probably how to play the most optimized lists.

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3 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

two units of 40 Chainrasps

is the days of unlimited CP for 50pts each time I'd agree, but having no inbuilt immunity to battleshock, 40 rasps will disappear really quickly, and no way to res the entire unit back outside of LoG or LoN is tough. I like the idea of blobs of rasps tarpitting though, but wonder if it could be more effective to simply put 8 x 10 or 4 x 20 down instead, less likely to battleshock, more targets for opponents to have to focus on , etc...

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7 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

is the days of unlimited CP for 50pts each time I'd agree, but having no inbuilt immunity to battleshock, 40 rasps will disappear really quickly, and no way to res the entire unit back outside of LoG or LoN is tough. I like the idea of blobs of rasps tarpitting though, but wonder if it could be more effective to simply put 8 x 10 or 4 x 20 down instead, less likely to battleshock, more targets for opponents to have to focus on , etc...

Yeah, that's a great point. Even without the horde discount they are pretty cheap and I think we underuse them as a community based on what I read on here and on Facebook. I get it - they're not a fun choice but I really think having a good number of them allows our other units to be more effective at specific tasks. 

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27 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@dmorley21I have considered a pure chainrasp army. 

Lady O (general for fluff reasons) 

GoS with +1 to cast relic

Spirit Torment

19 x 10 rasps

2000pts - 22 drops - 11 underworlds deployments - 207 wounds 

For me, Chainrasps don't hit hard enough to make an entire army out of them. And when talking about optimizing the army, I don't think a force of just them does that either. 

The only warscroll in our army that can be the entire army (apart from heroes) is Reapers IMO and even then it's far from optimized. 

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Hi,

 

it seems to me that MSU Nighthaunt is the actual way to play Nighthaunt. What is the reasonbehind this?

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Hi,

 

it seems to me that MSU Nighthaunt is the actual way to play Nighthaunt. What is the reasonbehind this?

 

 

More chances to get Wave of Terror proc

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I’m putting together a slow grow nighthaunt army at the moment. I love chainrasp but I am not spending £25 for 10 let alone £150 for 60. 

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28 minutes ago, ChrisMack26 said:

not spending £25 for 10

Ebay and selling sites are your friend here. There are still people selling the NH halves of Soul Wars. I have so many heroes from getting Soul Wars halves, because £40 for 20 is better than £50 for 20, plus you can then sell the other heroes. But seriously eBAY is your answer, normally get 10 for £15

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10 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Hi,

 

it seems to me that MSU Nighthaunt is the actual way to play Nighthaunt. What is the reasonbehind this?

 

 

3 months ago everybody said to bring big units cause of battleshok, not enough threat, low damg and what not.  

Now that they removed the comandpoints stacking from points you dont have as many rerols as befor and need more chanses of 10+ charges. 

In 2 months we will be back to big units cause of some new fotm tome.

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23 hours ago, Ahn-ket said:

More chances to get Wave of Terror proc

I've been playing a 14 drop MSU list and I have yet to roll 10+ on any charge roll in any of the games I've been playing so far lol

Being able to deep strike 7 different units where ever they're needed on the battlefield, however, is incredibly tasty.

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Depends on your playstyle. MSU gives more chances at wave but less chance to heal units before they are wiped out.

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On 8/2/2019 at 11:13 AM, dmorley21 said:

Yeah, that's a great point. Even without the horde discount they are pretty cheap and I think we underuse them as a community based on what I read on here and on Facebook. I get it - they're not a fun choice but I really think having a good number of them allows our other units to be more effective at specific tasks. 

 

On 8/2/2019 at 11:15 AM, Tropical Ghost General said:

I love rasps, they are so good, 21 attacks that can be buffed up to be much more. They aren't ever going to rock the world, but they can certainly give it a good shake.

Rasps are great. Last game I played against Beasts of Chaos, one unit of 10 rasps not only held off a unit of 30 ambushing Gors, they eventually wiped out the unit! I figured that these particular rasps must have been the spirits of Leonidas and the 300 lol! Another unit of 10 rasps elsewhere in the battle were also able to keep a unit of Bullgors tied up and wound up finishing them off after a couple of rounds as well, mostly thanks to being buffed up by a nearby Spirit Torment and Guardian of Souls. Tempted to try 2 units of 20 in my next game but so far I'm very happy how my 3 units of 10 have performed!

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On 8/6/2019 at 7:17 AM, Hannibal said:

What is the reasonbehind this?

As others have stated, you get more chances at WoT for one thing, but it has other benefits as well. 

It's been nearly a year now since I started playing MSU lists and it's taken almost as long to master it (or partly master it 😂). The biggest advantage imo is that it forces your opponent to split their focus. So much brutal insta-kill has developed in the game that even a 30 blob of grims with a 4+ ethereal, a 6+ death save and if your lucky a 6+ mystical terrain save, isn't enough to withstand the damage output of a lot of units in the game. Lots of these gross units rely on synergies and buffs to make them gross, so if they are forced to split their attacks or their target unit is too small that the whole unit can't get in range to attack then it's a waste of resources for your opponent. 

Another advantage is that you will almost naturally find that your units are 'wholly within' the ranges of your own heroes without needing to try, due to having a smaller footprint on the board, making getting those extra attacks and buffs much easier and less reliant on exact and perfect positioning movements being made.

Screening and sacrificial units also works wonders with MSU units. Need to hold on objective to score but don't want to jeopardise your main force or heroes, then leave your 80pt unit of expendable rasps to outnumber your opponent.

Or if you want you can use a small unit of SHs to tarpit a large charging monster, like a GKoTG, and place a unit within 3" of those SHs. The monster can't pile in to your guys at the back due to the size if it's base, meaning that if they kill the SHs or after the SHs have made their own pile in move, your 2nd unit can now attack the big gribbly monster, which should have expended all of it's attacks for that turn beforehand. 

And as others have mentioned, having a super high drop list gives you more options to drop more units on the board. I normally run 12-16 drop lists, giving me 6-8 underworlds placements. It gives a huge psychological advantage when your opponent can't get to most of your army in the first few turns and knows that you still have loads of units to bring into play. 

MSU and horde style of play are still both valid but currently in the competitive meta MSU is providing more successful results due to the fact that so many units in the game now can auto-delete anything they come into contact with, and losing a big blob of 30 grims is worse than losing 10 grims whilst your other 2 units of 10 grims are still kicking it about on the board. It may swing back to hordes, but due to when our book came out and the reluctance of changing warscrolls, we as an army lack any of the current 'must have' tools, such as reliable summoning, reliable healing, reliable participation in the activation wars, etc....so we have to make do with whatever we can. 

 

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1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

As others have stated, you get more chances at WoT for one thing, but it has other benefits as well. 

It's been nearly a year now since I started playing MSU lists and it's taken almost as long to master it (or partly master it 😂). The biggest advantage imo is that it forces your opponent to split their focus. So much brutal insta-kill has developed in the game that even a 30 blob of grims with a 4+ ethereal, a 6+ death save and if your lucky a 6+ mystical terrain save, isn't enough to withstand the damage output of a lot of units in the game. Lots of these gross units rely on synergies and buffs to make them gross, so if they are forced to split their attacks or their target unit is too small that the whole unit can't get in range to attack then it's a waste of resources for your opponent. 

Another advantage is that you will almost naturally find that your units are 'wholly within' the ranges of your own heroes without needing to try, due to having a smaller footprint on the board, making getting those extra attacks and buffs much easier and less reliant on exact and perfect positioning movements being made.

Screening and sacrificial units also works wonders with MSU units. Need to hold on objective to score but don't want to jeopardise your main force or heroes, then leave your 80pt unit of expendable rasps to outnumber your opponent.

Or if you want you can use a small unit of SHs to tarpit a large charging monster, like a GKoTG, and place a unit within 3" of those SHs. The monster can't pile in to your guys at the back due to the size if it's base, meaning that if they kill the SHs or after the SHs have made their own pile in move, your 2nd unit can now attack the big gribbly monster, which should have expended all of it's attacks for that turn beforehand. 

And as others have mentioned, having a super high drop list gives you more options to drop more units on the board. I normally run 12-16 drop lists, giving me 6-8 underworlds placements. It gives a huge psychological advantage when your opponent can't get to most of your army in the first few turns and knows that you still have loads of units to bring into play. 

MSU and horde style of play are still both valid but currently in the competitive meta MSU is providing more successful results due to the fact that so many units in the game now can auto-delete anything they come into contact with, and losing a big blob of 30 grims is worse than losing 10 grims whilst your other 2 units of 10 grims are still kicking it about on the board. It may swing back to hordes, but due to when our book came out and the reluctance of changing warscrolls, we as an army lack any of the current 'must have' tools, such as reliable summoning, reliable healing, reliable participation in the activation wars, etc....so we have to make do with whatever we can. 

 

Thanks for that deep inside!

Great read.

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@Hannibal No worries. I have been playing ghosts pretty much solidly for nearly 2 years now, starting them a good few months before AoS 2.0 dropped. I love the army for all it's faults and issues and the models are stunning. If my many hours committed to games played and the failures that have come from those 😂 can be of use to other players I'm more than happy to help out.

If there is anything else that you want advice or opinions on just let me know, I'm normally lurking around this forum a fair bit 😂

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A question has come up for me now that I'm looking at breaking up my two units of 30 Reapers into smaller ones... do units of Reapers need to have an Extoller of Shyish (bell ringer)?

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