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RuneBrush

AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

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On 4/22/2019 at 6:38 PM, Greasygeek said:

Snip

See I have two sons and I trying to learn them that they do not get any presents on their brothers birthday.  Cause they should learn to appreciate what they get and when they get it and also respect that this day is not theirs but instead help celebrate their brother.

 Surely they will both be stormcast players one day and I will know that I have failed😉

 

Darth Vader had trouble relating to his son.  So when the day comes those Stormcasts stand up to your righteous Death Army be sure to have the appropriate lines ready to recite.

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With the rumour that most AoS armies will be getting an update of some sort this year, what would you want to see from a nighthaunt terrain piece? Other than a fantastic model.

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4 hours ago, Qrow said:

With the rumour that most AoS armies will be getting an update of some sort this year, what would you want to see from a nighthaunt terrain piece? Other than a fantastic model.

1. Extra save/save buff aura.

2. Ressurection aura.

3. Wave of terror buffer aura.

Any one of those and I would be one happy Casper.

 

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4 hours ago, Qrow said:

With the rumour that most AoS armies will be getting an update of some sort this year,

It's no rumour. It was announced on Stormcast podcast thingy. 

We won't be getting any updates though. In the grand scheme of things we are a new army, with new models (a lot of new models) and a new book. Basically anything from. Maggotkin onwards is classed as updated, as that book was designed with AoS 2.0 in mind. So LoN, Deepkin, DoK are all in the same boat, released in 1st edition but designed with 2nd. A lot of the auras from ghosts and SCE are wholly within, so the only updates we might see to those older of the new books is changing those elements to match, but then again they've done a few FAQs since then and not updated it, so maybe they'll be left as is. 

In summary do not expect anything except maybe some points drops around August with the next GHB. 😭

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But if we did get a terrain piece, a guaranteed way to revive entire dead summonable units would be so good. 

A way to be immune to battleshock would be great as we could actually take hordes rather than MSUs. 

But I'm a realist and if we get anything I expect that it will just be something that gives -1 bravery (like sinister terrain) but a range of 12" rather than 1", but the affected unit has to be wholly within to be get the debuff. That way it falls in line with a lot of the other guff we have 😂

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A mate at my local club brought up an interesting question while discussing the GHB2019 and future faction updates. In an ideal situation, would you rather a units points be reduced so that they are in line with current release power levels, or have that unit buffed so that they fit their current points cost? And how would that change unit to unit.

He would rather that most units in his army (KO) be increased in power to match their points, rather than a decrease in overall point costs, so that he didn't have to buy anything more and so that all his units felt powerful instead of weak but cheap.

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15 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

But if we did get a terrain piece, a guaranteed way to revive entire dead summonable units would be so good. 

A way to be immune to battleshock would be great as we could actually take hordes rather than MSUs. 

But I'm a realist and if we get anything I expect that it will just be something that gives -1 bravery (like sinister terrain) but a range of 12" rather than 1", but the affected unit has to be wholly within to be get the debuff. That way it falls in line with a lot of the other guff we have 😂

What if it was like a herdstone. Starts at 12" and every turn it got 6" bigger, and the bravery debuff is equal to the turn. So turn 3 every enemy within 24" (not wholly) get minus 3 bravery, plus our natural Nighthaunt debuff. That would be sweet. That would make a lot of our abilites better without changing them.

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1 minute ago, SleeperAgent said:

What if it was like a herdstone. Starts at 12" and every turn it got 6" bigger, and the bravery debuff is equal to the turn. So turn 3 every enemy within 24" (not wholly) get minus 3 bravery, plus our natural Nighthaunt debuff?

Then I would feel pretty lucky that I just painted 2 banshess a few days ago.

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I would love to see the black coach as a hero, would solve alot of issues imo.

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52 minutes ago, Ove said:

I would love to see the black coach as a hero, would solve alot of issues imo.

And to be fair, it even has a cairn wraith on it. Almost any other faction that can take a mount with a hero on it, would count that model as a hero as well.

Edited by Qrow
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I'd love to see bladgheists become more elite. Maybe +1 wound, +1 attack and bring them up to 120 or 140 points per 5 or so. 

I think the easiest fix for hexwraiths is just to drop their points but I'd prefer changes to make them hit a little harder.. Maybe an extra attack on the charge would be the best. the fall back and charge from bladegheists and such would actually be super useful on them and would help get the most of their move over ability. Or change that to hit as many targets as they want. Lots of options.

Most of the new heros seem pretty interesting and we'll balanced with only point tweaks to fix them. A few too many generic combat heroes that don't do enough which can't easily be fixed with changes to their points though.

How does the black coach as a hero help? So you can give it the command trait or artifact? I'm not sure that would really make a difference....

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15 hours ago, Frowny said:

I'd love to see bladgheists become more elite. Maybe +1 wound, +1 attack and bring them up to 120 or 140 points per 5 or so. 

I think the easiest fix for hexwraiths is just to drop their points but I'd prefer changes to make them hit a little harder.. Maybe an extra attack on the charge would be the best. the fall back and charge from bladegheists and such would actually be super useful on them and would help get the most of their move over ability. Or change that to hit as many targets as they want. Lots of options.

Most of the new heros seem pretty interesting and we'll balanced with only point tweaks to fix them. A few too many generic combat heroes that don't do enough which can't easily be fixed with changes to their points though.

How does the black coach as a hero help? So you can give it the command trait or artifact? I'm not sure that would really make a difference....

I honestly don't seen it making a huge change, but it would help the deathrider battalion by giving another hero for the 6++ aura, and it would have a larger footprint for it than the other heroes.

I would love bladegheists to become more elite, but I fear that they would have a much larger pricepoint than 120-140. I mean, hexwraiths are 160 currently and are significantly worse than those changes would make bladegheists.

Absolute wishlisting here for hexwraiths, but as they have scythes I would love to see them gain the "reaped like corn" rule, in  addition to dropping to around 140 points.

Edited by Qrow

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The problem with making Blades (or myrmourns or harridans) 2 wounds is our heal-or-rez spells would be ruined on them without significant rewording.

If you had a single wounded 2w model you could only ever heal that 1 wound, with any spillover wasted, before you could start bringing models back.

Our heals work differently than LoN's do... for some rediculous reason.

Hexes need 'reaped like corn' quite badly. It would synergize with Frightful Touch quite well and better reflect their bloated point cost

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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16 hours ago, Frowny said:

How does the black coach as a hero help?

Death saves is all. Once fully powered it has some silly movement, as it has such a large base size, have a hero keep up with it and give it death saves is impossible. It doesn't hit very hard, so the option of artefacts might help to mitigate that weakness. Also being a hero with artefacts then makes it a contender for holding objectives in missions like arcane places of power, which is normally an auto lose for ghosts as we lack any big heroes. It wouldn't solve the problem but it would give a helping hand, the issue is is that our hero slots are precious enough as it is, I am often needing more than the 6 tbh, and competitive AoS is becoming very much a case of who can bring the best heroes, so having to use one of the hero slots for the BC also has it's draw backs, but it is what it is at the moment, a massively overcosted and beautiful model that lacks any real punch, as it has a very confused role in the army, it's not a pure healing machine, it's not a pure combat machine, it's not a pure buffing machine, it's a wishy washy mixture of everything, which is fine in less competitive games but at tournaments it's currently a big drain on points.

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1 hour ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Hexes need 'reaped like corn' quite badly

100% yes to this.

I do feel that blades and harridans being 2 wounds would be a better option at a higher points costs though. Yes it doesn't work as well with our healing, but then we have options to revive full models, which I think pretty much every ghost player takes RotSH as their general's command trait. It would also give more options for the BC to heal other than hexs and SHs. The issue with single wound stuff is that it gives the unit with large bases and small reach no staying power. Large units can't get into combat and small units die instantly. They are elite choices but lack anything that makes them truly elite imo.

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Oh, and as long as we are wishlisting here; rules for Garkorr.

Seriously, even just a plain unit leader with +1 attack would satisfy.

 

One of the balance problems with making the BC a hero is that it could then be taken as your General; and given the leadership rules. It already AoE heal/rezs and could have a second from RotSH, or summoning reinforcements with its crazy retreat run and charge movement stats, plus taking relics; -say the book- and then casting Endless spells....

thats a lot to balance there  with all the General traits and Nighthaunt Relics and Realm specific Relics and Nighthaunt spells and Endless spells ....all checked against its behemoth statline ....and buildup abilities.....and perhaps they didnt want to open Pandoras Box

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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Plus, as some of us have discussed prior; the entire NH release was wonky. Might not have had time to do those balance checks b4 shipping date (or whatever the cause of said wonk really was)

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6 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Yeah, but then again they opened pandora's box when the dropped the skaven and fec books 😂

We were already there with DOK.  

Some would even argue Battletomb:LON.  Then again those same people probably didn’t care how AOS 1.0 changes to summoning neutered Death armies and why players fled to Mourngul lists.

GW has in the past done worse with escalating books.  I’ll take that as a comfort.  The question now being how universal with they be with the FAQ revisions on the power creep currently allowed?

Edited by Evil Bob
Auto-correct and typing error
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@Evil Bob there are mild changes in the new books, such as rerolling hits compared to rerolling fail hits. So any minus to hit modifiers now get bypassed. Will GW FAQ it so that all of the older abilities that are reroll failed hits get changed, probably not, but all of these subtle changes to standard mechanics are going to create a wider divide with the power creep unfortunately. 

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My hope is that they'll fix hexwraiths so that they are worth the points, or reduce the cost. 

Same with the Mourngul ❤️

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