AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Spears]

Overall it still feels like they are trying to set the internal balance without actually making the faction any better. I think at this point Harridans are looking pretty good and a compelling alternative to the other 32mm options. This with the Kurdoss drop looks to favour legion of grief.

Still no GOS with hourglass, really glad I visited a gw store twice to pick that model up...

 

 

[Sception]

Ossiarchs can cast 2 spells (usually 3 with a special rule) with their 140 point wizard.  Their 130 and 120 point wizards only cast one each.

[dmorley21]

9 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

If that were true, Grimghast Reapers would have an asterisk too as they started out at 360 points

  

The Mourngul, like other Forgeworld stuff is in the Monstrous Arcanum section of the GHB that hasn't been leaked as of yet. But he's in there (and hopefully much much cheaper). Dolorous Guard and the other battalions not being in the Nighthaunt section therefore is quite telling. 

 

4 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Im pretty sure that the asterisk just means that points have been changed since the last GHB or bttletome. In case of the Blck Coach and some of the other mentioned units, they had their points changed about six month ago during the big FAQ thats realeased six month prior to the next GHB. However since none of these changes has been bookpublished they have the asterisk to let us know that something has happend since the last Ghb. Even though this is old news.

Yeah, I was wrong here. This is what it means.

As for the battalions, do other armies have their WD battalions in the GHBs? Another thing I thought of is those battalions came out after Cities of Sigmar, so they might be in the digital update. 

[Aaranis]

Just now, The_Dudemeister said:

All 3 Magmadroth variants are now 10 points cheaper each. 🙃

That's it I'm rioting

[Thamalys]

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

As for the battalions, do other armies have their WD battalions in the GHBs?

I’b gutted if they got rid of Dolorous Guard. My tournament list (which is in fav a LoN last...) is built around that battalion. I converted 10 - ten - Dreadblade Harrows to make it happen... 

[dmorley21]

31 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

I’b gutted if they got rid of Dolorous Guard. My tournament list (which is in fav a LoN last...) is built around that battalion. I converted 10 - ten - Dreadblade Harrows to make it happen... 

Me too. I didn't convert Harrows but did by 2 kits of Hexwraiths and Lady Olynder. The battalion was a real game changer for me. 

I appreciate the other points changes though. I ran a 2 units of Hexes, a unit of 10 Harridans, and a GoS; so it opened up a good deal of points for me. 

[The_Dudemeister]

Including Battalions and the Endless Spells, Stormcast have 21 things going down in points. Of which 11 units are 20-40 points each

Edited July 5, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[Undeadly]

It's a good time to be using Dolorous Guard. Hexwraiths and their battalion went down in points, so I imagine more Olyander bombs might get popular. I can't foresee how this can help my Spirit Host lists.

[ACBelMutie]

2 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

It's a good time to be using Dolorous Guard. Hexwraiths and their battalion went down in points, so I imagine more Olyander bombs might get popular. I can't foresee how this can help my Spirit Host lists.

Are there more leaks? I'm very excited about LoN and Nighthaunt.

Greetings

[Undeadly]

3 minutes ago, ACBelMutie said:

Are there more leaks? I'm very excited about LoN and Nighthaunt.

Greetings

Howdy! 

No leaks exactly, but in general, very minor changes. GoS and Hexwraiths went down a dime, while Dread Scythes went down AGAIN. 5 Scythes are cheaper than 10 Chainrasps, and 20 Scythes are cheaper then 40 Rasps. 

Dolorous Guard actually didnt go down; it was actually The Condemned. Its something that might be interesting, but still not exactly great. Also, the Brief Thorns went down in price, as well as Kurdoss. Kurdoss is so cheap, its almost silly.

[lare2]

54 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Howdy! 

No leaks exactly, but in general, very minor changes. GoS and Hexwraiths went down a dime, while Dread Scythes went down AGAIN. 5 Scythes are cheaper than 10 Chainrasps, and 20 Scythes are cheaper then 40 Rasps. 

Dolorous Guard actually didnt go down; it was actually The Condemned. Its something that might be interesting, but still not exactly great. Also, the Brief Thorns went down in price, as well as Kurdoss. Kurdoss is so cheap, its almost silly.

Assume you've seen the same pic as me. Can you figure out why there are asterisks next to some (e.g. Olynder) with no apparent points drop?

[Thamalys]

1 hour ago, lare2 said:

Can you figure out why there are asterisks next to some (e.g. Olynder) with no apparent points drop?

It will have to be warscroll, methink. Based on e.g. the latest Nighthaunt errata (see attached), if points stayed the same the changes will have to be somewhere in the warscroll... if I remember correctly Plaguemonks got a * in the latest Skaven’s FAQ (when their Warscroll got re-done). That’d be really exciting... but I am quite suspicious of the many * I am seeing with no points drop associated to them. Let us hope, but the other explanation is that the leak might be fake (haven’t seen it. If you see actual points drops for, say, Kurdoss, on the same leaked pic, then yeah, I am properly hyped)...

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Thamalys

[EnixLHQ]

Hoping it's fake, but even if not it's absolutely incomplete. I'm resisting forming an opinion until I have the book in my hands.

Keep in mind that beyond the points page there are artifact changes (they have been very vague on if we lose Aetherquartz, they just said we won't have to compare everything to it), and gameplay changes we haven't even been teased at yet. For all we know we get an eratta that applies to all asterisked warscroll cards that buffs us, or we are so thoroughly nerfed that Legion of Nagash becomes our only viable avenue to play ghosts. Or somewhere in the middle where everyone gets similar changes to limit power creep.

[The_Dudemeister]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

Keep in mind that beyond the points page there are artifact changes (they have been very vague on if we lose Aetherquartz, they just said we won't have to compare everything to it)

The artifact changes refer to the new Realm rules. Instead of the full Malign Sorcery list, in every game one Realm has to be chosen and there's only one artifact that can be taken from there.

Here for example is the Realm of Shadows, Ulgu. Note that we can't take the Sword of Judgement anymore, so no Knight of Shrouds shenanigans to have at least one worthwhile melee hero. Also of note is how as command ability, now everyone can get a trimmed down version of Nighthaunt's Spectral Summons teleport.

Edited July 5, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[LordPrometheus]

There is no way they're getting rid of Dolorous Guard. That's one of our best battalions. Also, they just came out with it, how in the world can they ditch it??

[Greasygeek]

25 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

The artifact changes refer to the new Realm rules. Instead of the full Malign Sorcery list, in every game one Realm has to be chosen and there's only one artifact that can be taken from there.

But are we sure that the only realm artifacts remaining are the single ones attached to each realm? 

To sum up.

Assuming the points posted on Fb (those I posted here) are true.

- We (probably) loose the Emerald Host, Dolourous guard and such.

- We loose sword of Judgement and The Aetherquatz. 

- We gain a few point drops but not more than it might provide an extra 100pts tops for most 2000pt lists.

- Auxilliary objectives might come in handy for us helping us avoid some of the unwinneable melees we often have to face especially in battleplans with 1-2 objectives.

- We still don’t know if the Mourngul goes down.

- We still don’t know if the new battleplans somehow turn stuff in our favour.

 

I gotta say im sceptical as f.... but hopefully GW has some kind of magic trick for us course if they’re telling me that the army that was fresh and new exactly two years ago is near unplayable now and the first and only hard battalion we got just 6 month ago is already washed down the drain Im gonna have some hard times finding words that wont get me thrown out of most restuarants😉. Not gonna nerdrage yet but seriously people, even Iphones don’t become obsolete that fast. Lorewise we are still suppose to be a part of the great threat against the mortal realms.

[LordPrometheus]

4 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

But are we sure that the only realm artifacts remaining are the single ones attached to each realm? 

To sum up.

Assuming the points posted on Fb (those I posted here) are true.

- We (probably) loose the Emerald Host, Dolourous guard and such.

- We loose sword of Judgement and The Aetherquatz. 

- We gain a few point drops but not more than it might provide an extra 100pts tops for most 2000pt lists.

- Auxilliary objectives might come in handy for us helping us avoid some of the unwinneable melees we often have to face especially in battleplans with 1-2 objectives.

- We still don’t know if the Mourngul goes down.

- We still don’t know if the new battleplans somehow turn stuff in our favour.

 

I gotta say im sceptical as f.... but hopefully GW has some kind of magic trick for us course if they’re telling me that the army that was fresh and new exactly two years ago is near unplayable now and the first and only hard battalion we got just 6 month ago is already washed down the drain Im gonna have some hard times finding words that wont get me thrown out of most restuarants😉. Not gonna nerdrage yet but seriously people, even Iphones don’t become obsolete that fast. Lorewise we are still suppose to be a part of the great threat against the mortal realms.

If this is true, the only way I won't be flipping tables is if they give us a new battletome soon. I just invested into NH a few months ago and built around Dolorous Guard.

Edited July 5, 2020 by LordPrometheus

[EnixLHQ]

Well, I'll know come next Saturday. Just finished my pre-order.

I asked my GW manager what he thought and he sort it dismissed it out of hand saying he doesn't trust the leaks. They are often for beta testing or samples for print and don't usually match what comes out.

When asked specifically about the Emerald Host battalions he said it's not usual for GW to release something in WD and then not legitimize it later. Either the leak is older than the battalions (October/November), the battalions had not yet been considered by that print, or its falls in the "Anything after Cities was released" print cutoff. He urged to remind me that other than serious edits, the 2020 Handbook was pretty much set in October/November and everything that came out after will be addressed in a digital download.

So we likely still have our battalions. They came out solidly after that cutoff.

@The_Dudemeister My point is that we don't know anything beyond that, yet. Yes, you have to choose a realm to play in. No more playing "nowhere." Yes, realm artifacts are being streamlined with many being dropped. But what's not being said is if we still have a "Realm of Origin," which if not eliminates being able to choose from two realm artifacts (origin and realm the fight takes place in), and we haven't seen any other realms but Ulgu. Hysh may still have the Aetherquartz Brooch. It may be a realm spell now (cast value: X, gain CP or refund one if spent), or the realm's Command Ability.

All we know for sure is the line that said "now you’ll also be encouraged to branch out and look at your own army’s artefact lists rather than always having to compare them to an Aetherquartz Brooch!" That doesn't mean it's gone.

[Greasygeek]

we also know Aqshy.. but yeah.. you are right.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Greasygeek

[Undeadly]

Don't worry; All the WD battalions arr still intact 

[Aaranis]

Well if we DO have to pick only from our own artifacts list all I'm encouraged to do is drop the army until they have a new Battletome honestly

[The_Dudemeister]

I actually like our artifacts, with some of them being quite potent. Our problem is more that our heroes aren't particularly good at all. 

Balefire Blade and Headsman's Judgement would make good melee heroes outstanding. Slitter would be phenomenal on a durable hero. Pendant of the Fell Wind and Midnight Tome are universally great and Dreadbolt Ring being at least okay.

Now here's an interesting thought: The new Build-A-Hero mechanic (Anvil of Apotheosis) that will be introduced isn't just for open play and narrative. GW mentioned that Tournaments should think about allowing that mechanic and provided a way to calculate the Matched Play points values. If that becomes standard in the tournament scene, all we need to do is choose every damage and health upgrade we can on our MALIGNANT hero and our artifacts will make them shine.

[Joseph Mackay]

What’s the general thoughts on best unit sizes for each of the Nighthaunt units?

[lare2]

1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:

I actually like our artifacts, with some of them being quite potent.

Gotta agree. Our artefacts are a definite saving grace. 

[dmorley21]

14 hours ago, Undeadly said:

Don't worry; All the WD battalions arr still intact 

That would be excellent, logical news. Do you have a source on this? 

6 hours ago, Aaranis said:

Well if we DO have to pick only from our own artifacts list all I'm encouraged to do is drop the army until they have a new Battletome honestly

Missing Aetherquartz Brooch or something similar in an army that desperately wants Command Points is a major bummer. That being said, as others have mentioned, Nighthaunt artefacts are quite good. 

Pendant of the Fell Wind can straight up win games. Midnight Tome is a really useful artefact. If you take a Guardian of Souls, they have some really good options with Wychlight Lantern being my favorite. And then there's some interesting melee artefacts. 

Most times, you're only taking 1-3 artefacts. So while annoying not being able to reclaim a command point, it's not really going to ruin the army. I feel worse for armies that relied on Ethereal Amulet or Ghyrstrike.