AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Platypus]

I agree, Azyr should be up-to-date, especially since it has a montly fee.

[The_Dudemeister]

How is Azyr not up-to-date? I see every single new unit, ability and points change being updated regularly. Can you please give me any examples?

It's the Warscroll builder that has hardly any support at all.

This is an honest question because as of now Azyr has never given me any reason to not rely on it and apparently that might be wrong.

Meanwhile one of THE biggest complains people have with GW is how any of their books is just good for 2 weeks before already being outdated.

[stato]

2 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

How is Azyr not up-to-date? I see every single new unit, ability and points change being updated regularly. Can you please give me any examples?

It's the Warscroll builder that has hardly any support at all.

This is an honest question because as of now Azyr has never given me any reason to not rely on it and apparently that might be wrong.

Meanwhile one of THE biggest complains people have with GW is how any of their books is just good for 2 weeks before already being outdated.

There have been numerous occasions where Azyr has been wrong, either points, not getting list building right, not uniformly updating FAQ (as you say most go in but people have reported errors in the past).  Many arguments on here and facbook groups about are caused by people quoting what you can and cannot do on warscroll builder or Azyr, especially battleline, allegiance or artefect allotment.  I cant quote anything here as ive not followed it for a while and they do update/correct the apps (if slowly), but we are currently talking about incorrect points for something that was changed in the GHB (6 months ago!) so there is one example. 

While it can obviously be used as an easy reference the definitive 'correct' rules are those in printed copy when used alongside Errata documents.  Id love it if they switched to Azyr as the focus but thats not what they currently do sadly.  So in summary, if there is any question about rules or how something works, dont use the apps as a reference, check the books and Errata. 😁

[Platypus]

Well, the before mentioned points for the Nighthaunt warband is one. Another error I know of is if I put either of the Knights of Shrouds as a general in one of the Legions of Nagash Allegiences I don’t get to give them a Command Trait, nor can I give them an artifact. 

Edit: And I can’t add any mercenary units to a Meeting Engagement list.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Platypus

[Vasshpit]

Any word on what that new WD content might be?...

[Aaranis]

6 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Any word on what that new WD content might be?...

Ah if only ! I crave leaks ! Just to get this Narrative Battleplan possibility out of my head !

[Platypus]

Usually it's been a few battalions and maybe a named hero.

[The_Dudemeister]

What does WD stand for? I wanna go all excited too 😄

There is a possibility for a new battalion and even a new mini?

[Neck-Romantic]

White Dwarf magazine

[Platypus]

3 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

What does WD stand for? I wanna go all excited too 😄

There is a possibility for a new battalion and even a new mini?

Not a new mini, a new warscroll for an already existing mini.

[Greasygeek]

17 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Any word on what that new WD content might be?...

What new content? Is there something Nighthaunt related in the next WD??

[Vasshpit]

@Greasygeek

On the back of last months issues their is a preview sentence about ghosts and flesh eaters. 

I can't recall the exact wording but its believed to be something Nighthaunt and FEC related...

Time will tell. 

[The_Dudemeister]

Ok, it talks about Ghosts and Flesh Tearers.

Ghosts is relevant to us, as it is definitely Nighthaunt. But Flesh Tearers are a 40k Space Marine faction.

[Aaranis]

Yeah I confirm, I saw an image of the back of the White Dwarf having a Black Coach in it (but I believe it's just a photo from the codex) so it is really Nighthaunt and not Gaunt's Ghosts. The others are definitely Flesh Tearers though, a successor chapter from the Blood Angels in 40k.

[Lebenski]

Really hoping we get a WD preview in a week or so,  just to set expectations for what this update will be

[relic456]

Just played the worst game of AoS I've ever had :(. My brother and I are doing a Forbidden Power campaign and today was our 2nd mission. I'm on a mean losing streak against his Khorne and was hoping to break it by overwhelming him with magic, since I can't beat him in the combat phase.

My List:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Spirit Torment (120)
Arkhan the Black Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
- Allies
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)
Quicksilver Swords (30)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 360 / 400
Wounds: 78

His List:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodstoker (80)
Exalted Deathbringer with Impaling Spear (80)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike
Khorghos Khul (180)
- General
Slaughterpriest (100)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
Slaughterborn (180)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 1480 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97

We played the Unlock the Vault scenario and he took turn 1. I deployed mostly in the middle to keep my Wizards near the Penumbral Engine for extra points and screened everything with Chainrasps. He deployed wide, with Bloodreavers screening Bloodwarriors screening the Skullreapers and Heroes. He summoned the Hexgorger Skulls and moved them to cover Arkhan, Reikenor, and the Guardian of Souls. With Ever Onwards, Killing Frenzy, and Whipped to Fury, he flung a 10 man of Bloodreavers at my front line of Chainrasps, doing just enough to take them all out. My Grimghasts  counter charged, taking out the Bloodreavers. My turn, I start casting spells and rolled unmodified 8's on two spells in the first four I cast. 2d6 MWs to all three of my wizards took out Reikenor and the Guardian of Souls, nuking my chances of winning. We decided to just call it there since there was no way I could contest any objective with what I had left.

In hindsight I guess I should have deployed as far back as possible, but I don't see how I could have kept my Wizards near the objective to generate points while avoiding the Hexgorgers. And I felt like I couldn't afford to not cast spells since my list was focusing on using those to make his forces more manageable in the combat phase. 

Anyways, I'm feeling really down on Nighthaunt these days and have basically given up on painting them. I can't win at a home table so there isn't much motivation to bring them in to a LGS.

If you have any list suggestions to beat this Khorne list I'm all ears, here's what I have available:

Spoiler

2 x Dreadblade Harrow 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern 
Reikenor the Grimhailer
Spirit Torment 
Knight of Shrouds 
Arkhan the Black Mortarch of Sacrament
20 x Chainrasp Horde 
20 x Grimghast Reapers
10 x Bladegheist Revenants 
2 x Chainghasts 
Malign Sorcery Endless Spells

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by relic456

[The_Dudemeister]

8 hours ago, relic456 said:

My turn, I start casting spells and rolled unmodified 8's on two spells in the first four I cast. 2d6 MWs to all three of my wizards took out Reikenor and the Guardian of Souls, nuking my chances of winning. We decided to just call it there since there was no way I could contest any objective with what I had left.

Yikes. Rolling two 8s in four casts has less than an 8% chance to happen.

Now also take into account that all those wizards need to be within 12" of BOTH Skulls while you have Arkhan to extend everyone's casting range by 6"... so even if you deployed really bad, the chances of that repeating are extremely low. So this game doesn't give you any insight of how good or bad it is against your buddy.

But honestly, magic is what Khorne hardcounters anyway. So while you've been just unlucky, going all out on magic is not a good idea in the first place. So instead of optimizing this list, completely change things up.

That being said, Khorne gets their summoning juice everytime a unit gets wiped out. This means you need to exclusively take (close to) max-sized units. 2x min-sized Chainrasp Hordes and a 5-man unit of Revenants is just begging for him to summon a Can of whoopass. Notice how he exclusively uses min-sized units himself because they give him blood tithe points too when you easily wipe them out. And together with the bloodtithe points you serve him on a silver platter, he just resummons even better units.

 

With what you have, here's my suggestion:

Dreadblade Harrow

Guardian of Souls

Spirit Torment

40 Chainrasps

30 Reapers

10 Reapers (objective holders and bodyguards for your heroes only!)

15 Revenants

You have huge units that can easily be healed again and again by all three heroes because his min-sized units won't ever wipe them out in one go. Also your wound count rises up from 78 to 110. Now also skip the Aetherquartz Brooch, because this list isn't CP-dependant at all. Give your Dreadblade something funky instead like Talisman of the Watcher - if he's not in combat (and he never wants to be), pick your Chainrasps, Reapers or whatever within 9" to reroll save rolls of 1. It triggers every single combat phase just like "All-Out Defence" which costs you 2CP per round if you want to keep it up the same way as this artefact. So you might even accumulate unused CP for your Dreadblade Harrow to teleport depleted units out of melee into the backlines to be healed in the next turns.

The Chainrasps are too big in the beginning to benefit much from GoS' +1 to wound, but that doesn't matter. In the first round you spread them out nicely so he cannot charge your heroes. Your Reapers will stand right behind the Chainrasps. So when he crashes into the Chainrasps, the Reapers are automatically in combat too and can go to town with their 2" weapons. Melee armies like Khorne have a hard time in general against this setup. Meanwhile the Revenants go character hunting as soon as he leaves an opening.

 

PS: Treat yourself to Spirit Hosts or Hexwraiths in the future. "Ruler of the Spirit Host" works so well on them and both units have very distinct purposes that you lack so far. Spirit Hosts spam mortal wounds and Hexwraiths are fast af. In this specific case I would've used any of those two instead of the 10 Reapers

Edited December 2, 2019 by The_Dudemeister

[marke]

Can nighthaunt (or anything really these days :p) be played with less than 80 models?

[dmorley21]

13 hours ago, marke said:

Can nighthaunt (or anything really these days :p) be played with less than 80 models?

If you run the Death Riders battalion, it would seem to be pretty easy. 

A Harrow + 2 units of Hexwraiths + Black Coach + Death Riders is 22 models for 1040 points. 

[Snoogens]

15 hours ago, marke said:

Can nighthaunt (or anything really these days :p) be played with less than 80 models?

I'm really enjoying the following list:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
 - Mortal Realm: Hysh

LEADERS
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact : Aetherquartz Brooch
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (200)

UNITS
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

BEHEMOTHS
Black Coach (260)

BATTALIONS
Deathriders (130)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 103
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

An argument can be made if the Dreadblade with RotSH or Olynder should be General.

[relic456]

On 12/2/2019 at 2:40 AM, The_Dudemeister said:

*snip*

I'm sorry I don't have the time right now to give your post the answer it deserves, because you did a really great job. 

It's funny because the Khorne army is actually also mine, and I build it up so my brother would be able to play against me. So I'm intimately familiar with why that army is set up the way it is, but you helped pull my perspective back on my own army. I knew it was (very) sub optimal, but I guess I was deluding myself in to thinking things were closer than they are. Maybe deep down I've known for awhile. 

Unfortunately I think I also knew deep down that the answer was "buy more stuff". I think the difficult part of that for me is, why bother spending the $200 CAD for the list you suggested, when I could put that money and time building and painting towards an army that can actually compete, like OBR. 

[Neck-Romantic]

Have we hesrd what the WD 'ghost' tease was about yet? 

[Greasygeek]

Yeah im eagerly awaiting this also. Though im trying to keep my expectations very low.

[Neck-Romantic]

The Myrmourn banshee warband having no unique models took a lot out of me. Im hoping for anything at this point

[The_Dudemeister]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:42 PM, Snoogens said:

An argument can be made if the Dreadblade with RotSH or Olynder should be General.

That's a great list for Olynder to be general. I really wish they'd get rid of the restriction on her command ability. That would be a small (because of the CP-dependence) but solid buff for Nighthaunt.