AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Foxjoru]

2 hours ago, Thenord said:

What's peoples take on the executioners horde? Seems like a pretty solid batallion and a way to make a pretty descent hero a pain in the ass for your opponents, if you make him general, with ruler of spirits and midnight tome?

I've little experience seeing in actual game but my feeling on it is if you do this you could consider taking lady olynder and maybe even black coach and have her be your general for the synergy with bringing back multiple spirit host units, also she can deal mortal wounds behind your unkillable executioner plus hosts. Maybe give him an offensive artifact so he can get to work? Or just MORE minus to hit? 

[MrRoff]

A quick question I'm sure have been answered alot before but I've totally forgot. 

Can allies cast endless spells? 

For example: Can my Vampire lord ally in a NH army cast an regular endless spell like "Quicksilver Swords" if I have it in my army list. 

[Thenord]

As long as it's not legion specific endless spells, yes:)

[MrRoff]

I see that alot of people use the cogs as their endless spell, but why? 

It don't help with our wave of terror since it's an unmodified roll of +10,and the cogs speed up ability modefies it. 

And the other option is to cast another spell, I don't get why that would be so useful either. 

Someone please explain, thanks! 

[Evil Bob]

Sequencing spells can be an important part of the game.  So throwing just one more can be an advantage.  With Nighthaunt being able to re-roll an invulnerable save is pretty sweet.  To be perfectly honest I probably will not use Cogs unless I pull out the centerpiece character for the army.

With Battletome:LoN castling in a spot is often thing.  That book already places a sever importance on magic so any edge is a big deal.  Aside just having the option for switching on fast undead is a nice in an objectives game.

[MrRoff]

11 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

Sequencing spells can be an important part of the game.  So throwing just one more can be an advantage.  With Nighthaunt being able to re-roll an invulnerable save is pretty sweet.  To be perfectly honest I probably will not use Cogs unless I pull out the centerpiece character for the army.

With Battletome:LoN castling in a spot is often thing.  That book already places a sever importance on magic so any edge is a big deal.  Aside just having the option for switching on fast undead is a nice in an objectives game.

Yeah sure, in a LoN army magic is really strong. 

In my Legion of sacrament army I can cast 9 spells a turn and unbind 5.

That with Arkhan in his Legion is really strong. 

But I would take Athervoid pendulum since they can't turn it against me, and is really good to split armies or shut down an area. 

 

 

[On another note, can I unbind my endless spell and cast it again all in my turn with different wizards?] 

(Since you unbind an endless spell with an spell cast attempt and not an unbind attempt) 

Edited March 13, 2019 by MrRoff

[Ove]

You want to make sure you get your chrges in from your deepstrike. 7 insted of 9 is like night and day

[Drillz]

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts  
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind  
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (80)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 110

or

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts  
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind  
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (80)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

The only differences being running reikenor or vamp lord and running with a 4+ save to mortal wounds or the additional-1 to being shot at with my knight of shrouds. I’m really looking forward to seeing how the hourglass runs on the table and how consistently it messes up my opponents charges

[Foxjoru]

3 hours ago, Drillz said:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts  
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind  
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (80)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 110

or

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts  
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind  
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (80)

Battalions
Chainguard (120)
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

The only differences being running reikenor or vamp lord and running with a 4+ save to mortal wounds or the additional-1 to being shot at with my knight of shrouds. I’m really looking forward to seeing how the hourglass runs on the table and how consistently it messes up my opponents charges

I'm going to be getting the mortality glass on the 30th I'm looking to use it more for the retreat to charge, fishing for more wave of terrors with my reapers, could crash your reapers right into a unit, move up chainrasp. Next turn you Translocate your reapers over the top, charge your chainrasps into the unit weakened by the reapers and charge your reapers deeper into the next nearest unit, blades can already do this, I don't know how this would work in practice though anyone tried this strat? 

[Foxjoru]

I've actually just came up with an idea I'm hoping someone has tried this before, not sure which would be better but both similar.

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Balefire Blade 
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind 
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (80)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

Or the second 

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Balefire Blade 
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind 
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
30 x Grimghast Reapers (360)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
5 x Hexwraiths (160)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101

 

The idea being you deploy reik, gos, the harrow, reapers and depending on  list the 5 hexwraiths or the black coach. Then set up the banshees, bladegeists, spirit torment, any remaining hexwraiths in underworld. Turn 1 cast cogs with reik, gos cast tempo on its self to get extra 6 move. Harrow warps 9 away from enemy, and summons the 30 reapers to its side, reik, black coach and hexwraits already have good move and cogs and pendant help here too they all run if they need to down mid, then deep strike the banshees, blades, spirit torment, hexwraiths again depending on list and go all charges, and surely that's opponent surrounded turn 1? 

[dmorley21]

5 hours ago, MrRoff said:

I see that alot of people use the cogs as their endless spell, but why? 

It don't help with our wave of terror since it's an unmodified roll of +10,and the cogs speed up ability modefies it. 

And the other option is to cast another spell, I don't get why that would be so useful either. 

Someone please explain, thanks! 

I use Cogs because I love to deep strike units. Rolling a 7" is so much better than a 9". 

I also start the game with 3 command points, so it allows me to fish for a Wave of Terror and not worry as much about failing the charge. 

[Alezya]

7 hours ago, MrRoff said:

I see that alot of people use the cogs as their endless spell, but why?

Someone please explain, thanks! 

Yeah sure, in a LoN army magic is really strong. 

In my Legion of sacrament army I can cast 9 spells a turn and unbind 5.

That with Arkhan in his Legion is really strong. 

But I would take Athervoid pendulum since they can't turn it against me, and is really good to split armies or shut down an area. 

[On another note, can I unbind my endless spell and cast it again all in my turn with different wizards?] 

(Since you unbind an endless spell with an spell cast attempt and not an unbind attempt) 

1/ Chronomantic Cogs can be useful for a lot of reasons: 

-You lack spell casting wizards, and need to cast some extra spells. Or you have the same amount of spells to cast with your opponent: Casting Cogs allows you to cast an additional one, therefore giving you an advantage: Your opponent will have to choose which spell to try to dispell and which one not.

-Since Lvl 1 wizard can take an additional from BTs, with the cogs they can cast the BT spell + their own. Can be very nice on a lot of wizards. Some big heroes might not benefit from it though (essentially Nagash). 

-The reroll save brings you some extra resistance: Very nice on Nagash or Alarielle, or a lot of other heroes (NH probably not)

-The extra 2" move can be gamebreaker if you manage to DS one of your unit: You bring them from 9" charge (above average) to 7" (average roll on 2 dices) and have the potential of 14" charge (quite strong). And it is still strong in normal cases: You have 10" move with your reapers, heroes, etc; and you charge at 2d6 +2". 

2/ You can unbind one endless spell (first thing to do in the hero phase though!) in order to cast it in the same hero phase with another wizard for example, yes. It will cost you a spell cast attempt. 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Alezya

[Neck-Romantic]

Just dont gamble everything on Reik getting cogs off first turn; I stopped running it after repeated fails WITH +3 to cast in tourneys

Also why I rely less on GoS's and more on Torments

Edited March 13, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Spears]

Primarily to reduce the frequency that my units charge out of buff range. With cogs the army felt like it made sense, I couldn't imagine running nighthaunt without it.

Not getting the +3 because reiknor passed his deathless save is beyond maddening though.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Spears

[Bladesway]

Maybe with this battalion, 2 Mournguls and a Miasmatic blade on the lord executioner to make him -4 to hit? (If I am doing my math right) or he just becomes a big target. But that could work.

[Neck-Romantic]

Currently Mournguls are not worth their points, much less 2 imho

Dont get me wrong; I like them and own one, but the couch far outperforms for cheaper

[Belakor]

Guys I see everyone is playing Ruler of The Spirit Hosts as the Generals Trait, it looks really strong compared with the other ones. Is there any chance the Traits can be moddified in the General's HandBook? As they have no cost it looks difficult to adjust. 

[Sralo]

Hi everyone! 

I have a local tourney coming up soon, but it is 1500pts. I have little experience in this point range, and my usual MSU style is just falling flat without the support pieces I have at 2k .  I know there will be at least 2 maybe 3 other nighthaunt players present, so I am looking to build a different list to strengthen mirror matches but also because almost everyone going knows nighthaunt is a thing locally and will be prepared for them.  

I am considering doing something crazy and going full Deathriders, with enough points left for a small unit of chainrasps and a guardian with mortality glass, what are peoples thoughts on this?.  What kind of lists have people found work well for the haunt at 1500pts?

[Greasygeek]

So word on the street is that an alleged power creep is happening these days. All of a sudden neither Legions of Nagash nor Daughters of Khaine are top of the line super factions anymore as they crumble between the massive Mortal wound output by FEC, Skavens and soon to be Khorne. 

People on TGA seem to more or less agree that new tomes power creep to balance stuff up. BUT where does this leave Nighthaunts? At no time have I thought of NH as OP and since our tome and endless spells are less than a year old we wont get a new tome for a very long time. I also doubt that GHB19 change anything save maybe for a few point tweeks.

So can we expect Nighthaunts to become the next beastclaw raider/ Kharadron faction or is this being to much of a Negative Nelly? Where do you lot honestly think Nighthaunt will stand by the end of 2019?

Sincerly Casper the worried ghost.

 

[Neck-Romantic]

Its always iffy being the first book of a new Edition; NH/STE were the first 2 of 2nd and we already seemed a bit off for even those 2.

We have discussed many of the weaknesses of the book; odd point values, redundant/repetative units, strange merchandising choices (soul wars box units, dbharrows box of 2, chainghasts only avail with torment named character, named alternate sculpts without special rules, anniversary model with rules, anniversary model w no rules whatsoever, mix of easy-to-assemble with regular sprue) that lead many of us to beleive the book was abridged due to time constraints or several NH related venues pushed together for a main Tome.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[sinksinksink]

I think there's a bit of overreaction going on towards the new tomes.

A tournament I was at on Saturday (24 players) was won by Nighthaunt and there were definitely strong lists there in opposition. There was a dragon heavy FEC list that didn't do so well either, so I think it's more about the players than some people think. 

Above all, I think the movement shenanigans that are possible and the chance of getting those 10+ charges off make the army both fun and powerful, and maybe a bit more tricky to use effectively than some, but one of the more rewarding armies out there if you can make it work for you. 

[Drillz]

Maybe in the next GH they will make it just a +10 charge instead of the whole unmodified thing

[Ghark]

10 hours ago, Drillz said:

Maybe in the next GH they will make it just a +10 charge instead of the whole unmodified thing

I hope not, because it will make the cogs more auto include than they already are, and narrow down the diversity of "good" lists regarding of the choices we have IMHO

On 3/17/2019 at 12:40 AM, Greasygeek said:

So can we expect Nighthaunts to become the next beastclaw raider/ Kharadron faction or is this being to much of a Negative Nelly? Where do you lot honestly think Nighthaunt will stand by the end of 2019?

But still, I quite share your fears, at least regarding how much this armie will be able to compete again newest BT (at least without having to run the same OP list).

Our army is quite strong and fun to play IMHO, with good synergies, but will drops in points values for some units will be enough?

Also, considering how Grimghast seems "despised/criticized" by people when run in LoN, I fear that their potential nerf will affect us quite deeply, while they are fine when using Nighthaunt allegiance.

[Vasshpit]

Maybe some kind of wholly within aura buff/reroll for charges on KoS models would be helpful and not too op...

[Nevar]

18 hours ago, sinksinksink said:

"... but one of the more rewarding armies out there if you can make it work for you. "

I agree that Nighthaunt is pretty awesome, but in my opinion Nighthaunt is a 'gamblers' army.

What I mean by that, is the majority of our 'features' are extremely randomized and powerful if they work in your favor. For instance, Wave of Terror is extremely good, like battle defining when it happens on a good unit like Grims or Blades.  But it is also basically useless on a unit of 10 Chainrasps.  On top of that, you have no ability to control when it triggers.  Legions of Nagash and FEC both have 'pile in and fight twice' mechanics that they can for the most part, use when they need it.  LoN has Danse Macabre, and while rolling for a spell is 'random' and the enemy can dispel it, there is also ways to improve your chances and even counter play with other spells to get you opponent to run out of dispels.  FEC spends command points for theirs, but as a general you -can- plan for and control when you get your double pile in.  With Nighthaunt, we can use CP to reroll the charge dice and that is the only influence we have on the mechanic.

All of our bravery targeting MW spells and abilities rely on rolling over the enemy Bravery which is extremely unreliable, and even when you succeed the damage output can be lack luster.  So building an army around Bravery is a gamble, as your unreliable mechanics can be made useless or made extremely OP based on opponents.

Our primary 'identity' is really just our flying/fast/ethereal universal base stats.  The Nighthaunt can get where they need when they need via deep-strike, repositioning teleports, and natural speed unhindered by models or terrain.  In a game based on objectives this is extremely good and our units basically all have solid stat lines.  The problem with 'making it work for you.' in our faction is that we really have no way to make any of our 'gimmicks' work when we want them to.

Legions of Nagash on the flip side, is more a planned event.  Everything from which Grand Host you use, to where you place your grave sites, are pieces of your game that you are completely under your control and that you can properly plan in advance.  You can be more of a 'thinking' general when it comes to tackling each battle.  I don't say that as any kind of negative criticism against Nighthaunt or our players... but other than normal 'any army' tactics of board control and objective capture, you really do not need to work too hard with our spooks.  By work hard I mean... your 'Wave of Terror' will happen or it won't.  It is icing on you cake not the cake itself.  Same with the Bravery stuff.  Our cake is simple mobility, which is great, but other factions can match us, AND have abilities which they can control.  Oddly for an army of spooks, Nighthaunt feel very one dimensional and straight forward to me.

Keep X guys in the underworld for outflanks and objective drops, send your main 'blocks' against their main blocks, and then just kinda hope you get a 10+ on an important charge somewhere.  If you don't... teleport your guys out of combat and have them charge again... and hope for Wave of Terror.

I know we have cool buff auras and stuff... but so does nearly everyone else, and when it comes to competitive play, reliability you can plan around is extremely important.  I play Skaven also, so I like these OP/Useless things, but at least a Warp Lightning Cannon functions in such a way that I can count on a few Mortal Wounds into an otherwise safe enemy character before it explodes.  I have played games where I got Wave of Terror zero times in 5 battle rounds, and I have had games where I got one or two in each of my charge phases.  Often times getting the 10+ charge on a small chaff unit that was 3" away already, while my main block of Blades fails their charge even after a CP reroll.

I dunno, I just feel like our inability to do anything to improve our Wave of Terror is sadness.  At least give us a Command Ability that lets us garuntee at least one good Wave of Terror per game.  I would take a 1 use Wave of Terror over our current system any day... at least then I can use my wits and skill to make sure my decisive hammer blow lands when and where I need it, instead of just shrugging and ignoring half of the pieces that make our faction unique in my battle plans.