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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion


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18 hours ago, ianob said:

both hate and love Ben's list. Shrieker Host is exceedingly powerful,

I am not familiar with real experience with this bataillon. Can you explain me the reason of this exceeding power? I always find that there is tons of way to bypass the use of inspiring presence, be it secrator/cmd10/dens/herdstone/battlebrew,etc.

 

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1 hour ago, ianob said:

Harridans are pretty much just worse Bladegheists, so they get ignored (and rightfully so, their debuff needed to affect 1 higher bravery since power creep has made most things 7 now), but they are still great.

Yeah, due to my meta, I've never had their debuff work. The 2 damage on a 6 to wound though, that gets overlooked IMO. Makes their damage output equal to Blades on a charge without a ST. But you're still right, as I've found the ability to retreat and charge to be a very versatile ability. 

28 minutes ago, kozokus said:

I am not familiar with real experience with this bataillon. Can you explain me the reason of this exceeding power? I always find that there is tons of way to bypass the use of inspiring presence, be it secrator/cmd10/dens/herdstone/battlebrew,etc.

 

I wouldn't consider it exceeding for the reasons you mentioned, but when you've got 4 units and a hero that nullify inspiring presence and make you re-roll battleshock rolls of 1 and you subtract all bravery by 1 by being Nighthaunt... you're going to get the ability off at least once a game even against armies that that seem built against it from my limited experience (I haven't played against BoC or Stormcast). 

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2 hours ago, kozokus said:

I am not familiar with real experience with this bataillon. Can you explain me the reason of this exceeding power? I always find that there is tons of way to bypass the use of inspiring presence, be it secrator/cmd10/dens/herdstone/battlebrew,etc.

 

Simple really - most armies rely on inspiring presence to not have their horde units die, and AoS is still ultimately a horde meta. Removing that ability is powerful. And it's a way of interacting with hordes that is not common, so people dont really have a defense against it. Battlebrew needs the Wyches to have gone first. Herdstone has a short range. Etc. But undoubtedly that is a downside, of course.

The reason I dont like the battalion personally is that I think it locks you in to suboptimal units, but as a caveat, suboptimal doesnt mean not powerful. Both Myrmourns and Harridans are great units.

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Its kinda frustrating with the missed opportunities with the book imho.

Dreadblades synergizing with KoS/Reikenor better (if theyre teleporting they arent receiving their melee bonus)

Tomb Banshees interacting with myrmourns/harridans to make up for their lackluster warscroll

We seem to have a lot of units vying for the exact same battlefield role; with harridans and bladegheists trying to compete with vanilla reapers for point efficiency, repeats like Glavewraiths and Bladegheists being nearly identicle in stats and overall purpose, and units like Chainghasts that seem like they are designed to do multiple tasks but rarely succeed at any of them.

Hosts, Hexes, Chains, Bladegheists and the Mourngul all feel overcosted as well to different degrees.

I would say that our Ethereal save; while versatile, is being weighted a bit too hard when factoring our points values for the army.

Anyone feel similarly?

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2 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Its kinda frustrating with the missed opportunities with the book imho.

Dreadblades synergizing with KoS/Reikenor better (if theyre teleporting they arent receiving their melee bonus)

Tomb Banshees interacting with myrmourns/harridans to make up for their lackluster warscroll

We seem to have a lot of units vying for the exact same battlefield role; with harridans and bladegheists trying to compete with vanilla reapers for point efficiency, repeats like Glavewraiths and Bladegheists being nearly identicle in stats and overall purpose, and units like Chainghasts that seem like they are designed to do multiple tasks but rarely succeed at any of them.

Hosts, Hexes, Chains, Bladegheists and the Mourngul all feel overcosted as well to different degrees.

I would say that our Ethereal save; while versatile, is being weighted a bit too hard when factoring our points values for the army.

Anyone feel similarly?

I personally think that Nighthaunt, while still being a book with a lot of thought put into it, was a bit of a rushed process in the rules department. A lot of things in the Nighthaunt book and army range feel very strange.

Both Harridans and Bladegeists all have a box that produces 10 unique models, but Grimghast boxes have 2 sets of the exact same sprue; this means for each box, you'll have two identical Grimghasts, or 6 of the same model in a horde of 30. The fact we also get 4 GG in the Soulwars boxset really makes me think that they were going to use GG as a 5 man squad, rather then the horde unit we have today.

Glaivewraiths also feel very disconnected from their lore given; instead of a group of slow drifting, but lethal assassins that hunt their foes, we get a skirmisher unit.

For the Lord Executioner, we seem to have a lot of ways to buff his wound, and get that +2 damage. GoS, Artifacts, even his own battalion seems built around it, but yet it was fixed to a 6, and even stranger, his Soul Wars profile actually does have him at a 6+.

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Think harridans have a unit leader option like chainrasps and grimghasts so you can either build the leader or another generic trooper

And another thing that truly bothered me; chainrasps intended to be a swarmy cannon fodder unit.. sold in boxes of 10 for full price $35 ... they are the same price as blades or reapers or harridans for 1 inch tall figures. A decent unit of 20 is $70. A 2x20 chainguard formation clocks in at around $165.

Glavewraiths would have been easy to set apart from blades/reapers by simply making them -2 rend or 2 dmg. Their small unit size would have easily offset the power boost and more justified their pointcost. Hell, I would use them now if they were -2r or 2dmg JUST to have something with even a little different melee profile. Even make them like move 4" to justify and I would take it!

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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13 hours ago, Undeadly said:

I personally think that Nighthaunt, while still being a book with a lot of thought put into it, was a bit of a rushed process in the rules department. A lot of things in the Nighthaunt book and army range feel very strange.

Both Harridans and Bladegeists all have a box that produces 10 unique models, but Grimghast boxes have 2 sets of the exact same sprue; this means for each box, you'll have two identical Grimghasts, or 6 of the same model in a horde of 30. The fact we also get 4 GG in the Soulwars boxset really makes me think that they were going to use GG as a 5 man squad, rather then the horde unit we have today.

Glaivewraiths also feel very disconnected from their lore given; instead of a group of slow drifting, but lethal assassins that hunt their foes, we get a skirmisher unit.

For the Lord Executioner, we seem to have a lot of ways to buff his wound, and get that +2 damage. GoS, Artifacts, even his own battalion seems built around it, but yet it was fixed to a 6, and even stranger, his Soul Wars profile actually does have him at a 6+.

Also, all the named character boxes that arent actually named characters, and the unique bladegheists that is actually... just a bladegheist. Yeah, distinctly got this feeling too, very weird and feels like they were just guys that didn't make it into what could have been a great book.

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11 minutes ago, ianob said:

Also, all the named character boxes that arent actually named characters, and the unique bladegheists that is actually... just a bladegheist. Yeah, distinctly got this feeling too, very weird and feels like they were just guys that didn't make it into what could have been a great book.

This too. Quite strange.

Alternate model with unique name for ST, LE, GoS, and Bladegheist that didnt end up in the book

Dreadblades in packs of 2

Only way to buy chainghasts is with a named non character character

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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14 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

But anyway; negativity aside!

Im brainstorming some objective markers using extra bits from soulwars/mortis engine ghost swarm etc ... anyone built their own Nighthaunt objectives and care to post?

I play Underworlds and saw that some of the contents in the scenery box for it would also double as a nice set of objective markers for Nighthaunt. This is what I'm planning on using next time I actually play a game.

objmarkers.JPG

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On 1/16/2019 at 6:09 AM, Neck-Romantic said:

Think harridans have a unit leader option like chainrasps and grimghasts so you can either build the leader or another generic trooper

And another thing that truly bothered me; chainrasps intended to be a swarmy cannon fodder unit.. sold in boxes of 10 for full price $35 ... they are the same price as blades or reapers or harridans for 1 inch tall figures. A decent unit of 20 is $70. A 2x20 chainguard formation clocks in at around $165.

Glavewraiths would have been easy to set apart from blades/reapers by simply making them -2 rend or 2 dmg. Their small unit size would have easily offset the power boost and more justified their pointcost. Hell, I would use them now if they were -2r or 2dmg JUST to have something with even a little different melee profile. Even make them like move 4" to justify and I would take it!

They could literally just make Glaivewriaths battle line and i would consider them more.

A battle-line 'tax' that can fall back and charge mixed with Bladegeists could be an awesome army.

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31 minutes ago, Nevar said:

They could literally just make Glaivewriaths battle line and i would consider them more.

A battle-line 'tax' that can fall back and charge mixed with Bladegeists could be an awesome army.

This so much; If they were a BL option, and a bit cheaper, maybe 40 points, they would find an actual role inside of a Nighthaunt army. I still wish they had some sort of rule to represent how they are spectral hunters that track and kill those who have angered Nagash.

 

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Just now, Undeadly said:

This so much; If they were a BL option, and a bit cheaper, maybe 40 points, they would find an actual role inside of a Nighthaunt army. I still wish they had some sort of rule to represent how they are spectral hunters that track and kill those who have angered Nagash.

 

I would be willing to pay the current price with current stats and no changes for Glaivewraith battleline.

Their largest downside is they compete with much better units.  If they were BL I could even consider throwing their battalion on the table without much hesitation.  As they are, my question to myself is always, "Why not Bladegeists?"  "Why not Hexwraiths?" "Why not a Cairn Wraith?"

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23 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I would be willing to pay the current price with current stats and no changes for Glaivewraith battleline.

Their largest downside is they compete with much better units.  If they were BL I could even consider throwing their battalion on the table without much hesitation.  As they are, my question to myself is always, "Why not Bladegeists?"  "Why not Hexwraiths?" "Why not a Cairn Wraith?"

Eh, the problem with their current price is that even if they were BL, they'd still be more expensive per model than even Grimghasts and the exact same price as Bladegeists, while not really possessing all the things that Bladegeists have going for them. Their weird 4 model count also really hurts them; if they were 5 for 60, I would be okay with them.

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58 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Eh, the problem with their current price is that even if they were BL, they'd still be more expensive per model than even Grimghasts and the exact same price as Bladegeists, while not really possessing all the things that Bladegeists have going for them. Their weird 4 model count also really hurts them; if they were 5 for 60, I would be okay with them.

The small cheap unit size to fill a BL slot is why I think that is not too much of an ask, 180 pts for all three BL slots filled with excellent hero/arty hunters makes a lot of other cool units to fill out your list.

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Exactly my thoughts on Glavewraiths. Small unit size; overcosted, no rend, to do exactly what bladegheists do better.

If they had a superior attack value inrend or dmg then their small unit size would keep them from being OP, if they were BL then their value as retreat-and-charge irritations working in tandem with Bladegheists would be superb

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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56 minutes ago, relic456 said:

I wouldn't expect any changes to their warscroll but most people I talk to are convinced they'll see a points bump in the next GH this summer. But who knows!

I don't expect (hope!) change except the "cannot be taken in LoN".

 

The unit by itself is not problematic. It's the "bring it back for one CP" + "4 graveyards" that are problematic.

 

I just wish for a point overhaul in the ghb '19. Many nighthaunt units need to be re-evaluated in term of point cost. Or even battle roles (Glaivewraith stalker as BL).

Chainghast come to mind, as many people already discussed here. 

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