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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion


RuneBrush

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@Keith my limited understanding on the probability is that getting a 10+ is a 6/36 chance (or 1 in 6 chance of happening). It means it's a 16.67% chance of happening. 

As the re-roll doesn't allow for re-rolling a single dice (unlike 40k), instead you have to re-roll the entire charge roll, so when you do re-roll it, it will still be a 1 in 6 chance of getting that 10+. I have a feeling that the percentage goes up a bit but not by much as 40%.

My maths may be wrong here and I've worked it out in reverse. So it's 5/6 (83.33%)  of not getting a 10+. Over 2 rolls it's 5/6 x 5/6 = 25/36 (69.4%). Then subtract that from 100 and getting a 10+ over 2 rolls in 30.6% chance. 

Now compare 16.67% to 30.6% and it's almost goes from 1 in 6 chance to a 1 in 3 chance. This is why I am currently going 200pts under in games at the moment for extra CP for charging re-rolls. 

IMG_20181206_075225.jpg

Edited by Tropical Ghost General
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I'm interested in running the below list for a competitive 2k tournament. I need a few more boxes of Blades. Does anyone, on paper, see any major flaws? I think it would struggle with killing big monsters, but I think it is fairly balanced. I know that Ruler of the Spirt Hosts is great, but the Shroudguard needs the KOS to stay alive and being -2 against ranged is great. Arkhan makes up for the lack of RotSH and he he is great magic/anti magic. I originally wanted to play 20 and 20 Blades, because of the unit discounts, but I worry about their lack of reach and fitting them inside my KoS and Spirit Torment bubble.

I'd love all and any CC!

LEADERS
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Cloaked in Shadow
- Artefact : Pendant of the Fell Wind
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact : Midnight Tome
Spirit Torment (120)
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
UNITS
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
BATTALIONS
Shroudguard (110)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Nighthaunt-Shroudguard.pdf

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On 12/2/2018 at 12:41 AM, mrbedlam said:

Yes, if they don't have anyone close enough to pile in too then they aren't in combat anymore and don't get another combat round.

incorrect. you always get to pile in if you charge - regardless as to weather anyone is within 3.

 

if you didnt charge then yes, your stuck unless someone comes within 3 inches 

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I'm still hung up on making a battalion that fixes Dreadblades.

(Any title is a vanity for homebrew)

*Phantasmal Dragoons*

1x Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed or Reikenor the Grimhailer

2-6 Dreadblade Harrows

All Dreadblade Harrows taken as part of a Phantasmal Dragoons battalion lose the Hero keyword and are treated as having a unit size of 2-6 and must follow all rules for units (battleshock tests, unit coherency)

In addition, all Dreadblade Harrow models taken as part of a Phantasmal Dragoons battalion gain Frightful Touch. 

Any time the Knight of Shrouds or Reikenor the Grimhailer taken as part of this battalion is allocated a wound or mortal wound, on a 3+ it may allocated to the unit of Dreadblade Harrows instead.

********

Feels like it would solve so many problems. An elite cavalry unit that has potentially 10 to 30 wounds to soak damage, shield our fragile characters, and actually make full use of our existing healing mechanics. At 100points per I feel they are properly costed if they would gain the frightful touch; casing 2 mortals on the charge or 1 and an extra attack if bogged down.

 

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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Doing a 1k tournament where I will be the ringer and I wanted to bring my spooky ghosts for the funsies. Here's the list I'm looking at:

Spirit Torment (Ruler of the Spirit Host)

Guardian of Souls

Knight of Shrouds on Steed (Balefire Blade)

20 Chainrasp Horde

20 Grimghast Reapers

5 Bladeghast Revenants

Thoughts

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I need help! 

I just got my ass kicked again against an tzeentch player... 

We're playing 1500~p games 

He has a lord of change, 30 acolytes, 30 tzangoors, 1 shaman on disk, 3 skyfires, 3 tzangoors enlightened on disk.

His lord of change is the main problem, the infernal gateway and bolt of tzeentch really hurts, and I have no ress/heal except for RotSH because he can just unbind all my spells with his mastery of magic.. 

I've tried to play nighthaunts and GHoN against it, but if he gets a dubble turn its really GG. 

At 1500 currently I lack meatshields and I end up taking to many heroes or units I don't really want to use just to come close the 1500p at this time. 

What I have to use atm. 

Knight of shrouds on ethereal steed 

2x GoS

Lady Olynder 

Spirit torment 

Lord executioner 

Coven throne - ally

10x grimghasts (to few I know) 

30x chain rasps 

10x hexwraiths 

6x spirit hosts 

8x myrmourn banshee 

(1 necromancer, 1vampire lord, 10 skeletons) 

Any tips on what to buy? 

Or any combos or such 

I think my army isn't optimal at all for 1500p, I almost always win in 1000-1200p games tho 

Thanks a lot for answers! 

 

Edited by MrRoff
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On 12/6/2018 at 2:33 PM, Neck-Romantic said:

I'm still hung up on making a battalion that fixes Dreadblades.

(Any title is a vanity for homebrew)

*Phantasmal Dragoons*

1x Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed or Reikenor the Grimhailer

2-6 Dreadblade Harrows

All Dreadblade Harrows taken as part of a Phantasmal Dragoons battalion lose the Hero keyword and are treated as having a unit size of 2-6 and must follow all rules for units (battleshock tests, unit coherency)

In addition, all Dreadblade Harrow models taken as part of a Phantasmal Dragoons battalion gain Frightful Touch. 

Any time the Knight of Shrouds or Reikenor the Grimhailer taken as part of this battalion is allocated a wound or mortal wound, on a 3+ it may allocated to the unit of Dreadblade Harrows instead.

********

Feels like it would solve so many problems. An elite cavalry unit that has potentially 10 to 30 wounds to soak damage, shield our fragile characters, and actually make full use of our existing healing mechanics. At 100points per I feel they are properly costed if they would gain the frightful touch; casing 2 mortals on the charge or 1 and an extra attack if bogged down.

 

Don't forget they would need to lose the Leader designation too, otherwise you'll run out of Leader slots and make it pretty moot. Khorne has that problem with one of their battalions that requires 8 leaders (so unusable in normal 2k games).

May also want a range limit (like have to be wholly within 12" of said character) otherwise RAW you're giving Knight/Reikenor a bunch of extra wounds that can be nowhere near them! Also RAW, Reikenor can pass off his Candle wounds to the Hollows, is that intentional?

Also Ruler of the Spirit Hosts can revive up to 300pts worth of models if you still have one Hollow left and the Hollow unit had at least 4 models at the start. I feel that might skew the General's Trait a bit too much. Yes the chances of that occurring are pretty slim (have to make sure the unit isn't dead, and you roll lucky with Ruler) but that is a bit crazy seeing normally you at best usually would only get to revive maybe 3 spirit host bases or 3 hexwraith cavalry. This is under the assumption they gain the summonable keywords, which I assume you want to give them otherwise they can't get healed anyways (since they lose the Hero keyword, they lose Spectral Tether heal)!

 

I feel that DBH would have to be completely rewritten profile wise to make them work as a unit. Otherwise the Ruler of the Spirit Hosts makes things a bit silly.

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Well I feel both RotSH and the Black Coach's ressurection would be just fine. Dealing 5 wounds to remove a DBH isnt that hard to do, especially if your special character is being targeted as well.

Just such a shame for the fantastic model to be such a waste; I normally cant make Harrows work as anything more than a gimmick

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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3 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

Question: How do you feel about the Execution host? On one hand, it does feature a rather weak 5 wound hero and a mediocre effect, but on the other, it does fill our BL needs in one go, and gives us another artifact, while making the Lord Executioner rather tricky to kill.

The main question becomes... would you want to pay the points for the Executioner and the Battalion?

Also... are you wanting to pay those prices for the Spirit Hosts when there are Chainrasps and Grims out there.

I will be using it in an upcoming Path to Glory, mainly because I wanted to make a 'fun list' and Spirit Hosts coupled with RotSH will make the starting warband more survivable early in the campaign.

I think the problem with the Executioner and his battalion is not that they are bad, just that they have far better things competing with them.

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21 hours ago, Nevar said:

The main question becomes... would you want to pay the points for the Executioner and the Battalion?

Also... are you wanting to pay those prices for the Spirit Hosts when there are Chainrasps and Grims out there.

I will be using it in an upcoming Path to Glory, mainly because I wanted to make a 'fun list' and Spirit Hosts coupled with RotSH will make the starting warband more survivable early in the campaign.

I think the problem with the Executioner and his battalion is not that they are bad, just that they have far better things competing with them.

Honestly, I'd say the competition between Chainrasps and Hosts is pretty equal, considering they do different things and have different roles. The fact that one unit is 3 wounds on a 4+, with 3 models per unit vs 1 wound on a 5+ with 10 models per unit automatically makes them different enough to argue over.

 

Although, I am in the camp of NH players that don't think Grimghasts should have ever been Battleline in the first place, nor do they really make sense to me as a troop style unit.

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On 12/12/2018 at 2:04 PM, Undeadly said:

Honestly, I'd say the competition between Chainrasps and Hosts is pretty equal, considering they do different things and have different roles. The fact that one unit is 3 wounds on a 4+, with 3 models per unit vs 1 wound on a 5+ with 10 models per unit automatically makes them different enough to argue over.

 

Although, I am in the camp of NH players that don't think Grimghasts should have ever been Battleline in the first place, nor do they really make sense to me as a troop style unit.

Well that is my point.  You said;

"but on the other, it does fill our BL needs in one go"

Implying it deals with the 'BL tax' as a upside of the battalion.  Something like  any of the Chainrasp battalions do the same, with less points tied into them, and much more desirable hero choices.  Guardian of Souls, Spirit Torments, etc.

I am not arguing Chainrasps are better than Spirit Hosts, they are extremely different, but if you are wanting a competitive battalion with artifacts and the like, while also filling in the BL requirements, any of the Chainrasp options are superior.  If you don't like Chainrasps like me, then these battalions are not very attractive.  Which is why I am using an Execution Horde for Path to Glory.  I want to use better BL and make the best use of RotSH early in the campaign.  Guardian of Souls can get max 9 wounds back from his spell, or x3 Spirit Hosts if you are lucky, likely only getting x2.  RotSH will get you 1-3 Hosts back, average 2.

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Got a friend that is interested in starting warhammer, more so, the ghosts! Would love some help since im got a Nighthaunt player. 

 

- do they work in a competitive level by themselves? (No other deaththingy stuff?) 

- What is the overall feel of the army game wise (playstyle, Special abilities and such) that separates them from other armies? 

- if you have time, how would you start your first 1k list? Please send me some tips! 

 

Cheers! 

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46 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

Got a friend that is interested in starting warhammer, more so, the ghosts! Would love some help since im got a Nighthaunt player. 

 

- do they work in a competitive level by themselves? (No other deaththingy stuff?) 

- What is the overall feel of the army game wise (playstyle, Special abilities and such) that separates them from other armies? 

- if you have time, how would you start your first 1k list? Please send me some tips! 

 

Cheers! 

they are very mid tier at the moment competitive wise but not unfun to play. They really play in a sort of hit and run style where you pop up where needed and hope to score objectives as overall the units don't hit overly hard.

Almost always start with the Soul Wars box and go from there. it gives you a good start

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So... maybe this has been pointed out somewhere else.

I recently got a Black Coach model online for super cheap (yay me!) and I was looking through the instructions.

The warscroll in the build instructions states it is a HERO.  Not only is it a HERO but it has a rule called "Obvious Target" which makes it count as a MONSTER for the purposes of Look Out Sir!  Everything else is the same.

I know people were talking about how it needed to be a HERO earlier in the thread and I found it interesting.

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About the Spectral summon command ability.

The text say that you remove the unit from the Battlefield, and then set up again. So the unit enters full models again? For example a spirit host unit that was 9 models, then i kill 5. The Nighthaunt player uses the Command ability. They return full? Or just 5 models? Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Curzex said:

About the Spectral summon command ability.

The text say that you remove the unit from the Battlefield, and then set up again. So the unit enters full models again? For example a spirit host unit that was 9 models, then i kill 5. The Nighthaunt player uses the Command ability. They return full? Or just 5 models? Thanks.

Sadly no, you remove the unit and then set it up again exactly as is.  I'll see about finding a rules reference for ya.

Edit:  I couldn't find anything specific  but the reasoning is that you aren't setting up a new unit, you're setting up an existing unit, which does not change the amount of models still alive in that unit.  From another angle, if returning slain models to the unit was part of the ability, it would state so.

Edited by relic456
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20 hours ago, Nevar said:

The warscroll in the build instructions states it is a HERO.  Not only is it a HERO but it has a rule called "Obvious Target" which makes it count as a MONSTER for the purposes of Look Out Sir!  Everything else is the same.

I know people were talking about how it needed to be a HERO earlier in the thread and I found it interesting.

That is interesting. I honestly don't get why it's not. Maybe there's hope for the future. 

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Ive been noticing the way the army plays tends to want me to clump up in a very tight ball of 'within x inches' auras... the GoS, STorment, Shroudguard, Deathless saves etc.. which I end up with about 2 large clusters of models without much board control.

Its starting to become a hard habit to break.. but if I spread out to enagage more targets/objectives my Heros get picked off, or Ill stray out of 'within' aura range, or heal/res range etc.

Anyone having similar tendencies cropping up?

*edit* 

Oh; and 1" melee on nearly all our stuff is absolutely maddening

Edited by Neck-Romantic
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