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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion


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5 minutes ago, Walkirriox said:

But SoD cannot use the Oaken Armour if he had the Gyran realm artifact that gives you +1 to hit and wound,  unless he had a battalion.

 Even In that case, can a hero have more than one artefact?

No a hero can’t have more than 1 artefact and the SoD didn’t have a 2+ save either. Smavo misread the post.

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9 hours ago, Smavo said:

It's pretty easy to "kite" sylvaneths now as the woods have the overgrown rule from the citadel wood scenery aswell. So as long as there is 1" between a model in the wood crossing the base of the wood they do not have LoS so if they do want to turtle in their wood then they lose their muscle attacks. So you can either avoid them and swarm another objective or make them come to you.

Against Nighthaunt theyll always have Los as every Nighthaunt unit has fly.

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13 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

Right, now I've calmed down a bit, I can process. 

We generated a scenario from the GHB18 and the deployment zone... threw me for a loop I think, it was the one where the deployment zones are right next to each other so you can get in the fight straight away and something about this appears to have scrambled my brain, as I merrily plonked down my Chainrasps in range of his Spirit of Durthu, which promptly killed almost all of them when he got first turn. Six damage, and with the Ghyran artefact that gives +1 to hit and wound, so 2s and 2s... If it weren't for my remembering my death save I would have lost the whole unit right there in the first turn. And that's after doing 4 damage to Reikenor with his ranged attack.....

 

First of all: thanks for the report, these are the most valuable posts in this thread.

Secondly: Someone already told you about Olynder and MW's against Sylvaneth. I'dalso think that Spirit Hosts against SoD are your best bet,  combined with spellcasting. Get some cheaper solid battleline and put your casters behind it. Deny his magic and MW him down.

Maybe an unfavorable match for NH, I don't know, but these things happen, since some armies are the paper to your stone.

Thirdly: Try to get kowledge of what your opponent can do. Read the warscrolls yourself. He probably didn't get something wrong, but some opponents do in super onesided games. So if you think something is abnormal....go check it yourself.

Edited by Marucho
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So.

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (240)
- General
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern

Battleline
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 55

Thinking of swapping the Revenants out for a Spirit Torment given how it's consistently performed over my first three games, but then I only have two units...

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55 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Alright. We had a Tournament just now and the consensus is the following: The 10+ charge of NH is too strong - this rises to a rediculous Level once the NH player makes more than one 10+ charge per turn.

We thought about:

how about a 1“ range and you get one attack per weapon.

The 10” charge procs about 17% of the time. It’s very very unlikely to happen more than once a turn.

Yes it hurts when you get it but you can go whole games without rolling a 10+. 

If you have a player rolling consistently 10+ in tournaments I might just discretely check their dice or ask for their lottery numbers at the very least.

Its a gimmick and something you can’t build a list around

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On 8/10/2018 at 1:42 PM, Benlisted said:

Updated this to correct the MW issue. SHs and Hexes look unfavourable VS most targets, but less so (they do 1/2 the damage per point of the rest of the units, roughly, rather than 1/3). VS high save units they look more reasonable, as you'd expect.

Also added the Mourngul and the Coach. Both perform similarly, with Coach better VS hordes and Mourngul VS elites, but very marginally - and once the Coach powers up to L2, it closes the gap. That said, I am surprised by how similar they perform, I thought the Mourn would come out worse. Even still though, Hosts are a better source of MWs if that's what you want, point for point.

The Coach doesn't take into account its eventual MW output. It is interesting that the Scythe comes out ahead of the Grasp even if the scythe isn't rerolling, and even VS 2+ saves. The MWs are tasty I guess.

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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Alright. We had a Tournament just now and the consensus is the following: The 10+ charge of NH is too strong - this rises to a rediculous Level once the NH player makes more than one 10+ charge per turn.

We thought about:

how about a 1“ range and you get one attack per weapon.

I'm sorry but I've played multiple games with Nighthaunt and it rarely comes up. It is a perfectly fair and balanced army ability which they REALLY need to stay competitive.  If someone is getting them too often check the dice. I've gone whole games without a single Wave of Terror. And this is with deep striking as many units as possible which need a 9 anyways.

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So I ran a 1k list today using Reik and the Purple Sun, against Khorne bloodbound. Only went and bloody won the game. Woop woop for ghosts, praise be Nagash, etc... 

List was: Reikenor (Spectral Tether), Spirit Torment (General/Ruler of the Spirits/Midnight Tome/Shademist), 10 Chainrasps, 20 Grimghasts, 12 Myrmourn Banshees, Soulsnare Shackles and Purple Sun. (990pts).

Purple Sun was a big distraction carnifix, only killed 20pts of models (if that), but forced him to split his forces, allowing me to whittle him down. Getting a 10+ charge with buffed up banshee unit helped out a lot as well ?. Still not sold 100% on the myrmourn but will keep testing them out until they have that OMG game winning experience with them. 

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9 hours ago, TheWolfLord said:

The 10” charge procs about 17% of the time. It’s very very unlikely to happen more than once a turn.

Yes it hurts when you get it but you can go whole games without rolling a 10+. 

If you have a player rolling consistently 10+ in tournaments I might just discretely check their dice or ask for their lottery numbers at the very least.

Its a gimmick and something you can’t build a list around

I‘ve got tabled at the start of turn 3. of 5 charges he made 4 waves of terror and got a double turn.

it‘s unlikely but it still happens and easily wins games since you can destroy entire units without them ever swinging back.

if it really is that rare it should be limited to one a turn without being game breaking. (I am a NH player myself.)

Edited by JackStreicher
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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

I‘ve got tabled at the start of turn 3. of 5 charges he made 4 waves of terror and got a double turn.

it‘s unlikely but it still happens and easily wins games since you can destroy entire units without them ever swinging back.

if it really is that rare it should be limited to one a turn without being game breaking. (I am a NH player myself.)

Someone making 4 Waves of Terror in a turn is a statistical anomaly. Lots of other things in this game have the same long odds and aren't overpowered. Thats like saying Mourngul is overpowered because sometimes (re: almost never) it will roll those 8 attacks and hit EIGHT 6's and deal 16 mortal wounds. 4 Waves of Terror in a game is super lucky. In a turn it's a Unicorn. 

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12 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

Someone making 4 Waves of Terror in a turn is a statistical anomaly. Lots of other things in this game have the same long odds and aren't overpowered. Thats like saying Mourngul is overpowered because sometimes (re: almost never) it will roll those 8 attacks and hit EIGHT 6's and deal 16 mortal wounds. 4 Waves of Terror in a game is super lucky. In a turn it's a Unicorn. 

Lots of other things have the same odds without singlehandedly winning a game if you roll a statistical anomaly.

Edited by JackStreicher
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16 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Lots of other things have the same odds without singlehandedly winning a game if you roll a statistical anomaly.

It doesn't single handedly win the game. Its (in this scenario) 4 free attacks on a less than 1% chance. Idoneth Deepkin get to attack with their entire army first on turn 3 and its gauranteed and fair. 

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5 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:

It doesn't single handedly win the game. Its (in this scenario) 4 free attacks on a less than 1% chance. Idoneth Deepkin get to attack with their entire army first on turn 3 and its gauranteed and fair. 

If 30 Grimghasts make the 10+ charge (or even twice) it‘s over because of the Range and the number of attacks. Couple that with all of our auras and you get a nice charge phase which slaughters 2/3rds of the enemy.

And there are even more examples.

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30 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

If 30 Grimghasts make the 10+ charge (or even twice) it‘s over because of the Range and the number of attacks. Couple that with all of our auras and you get a nice charge phase which slaughters 2/3rds of the enemy.

And there are even more examples.

If you’re making long charges there’s little chance the unit will be able to benefit from any auras as they are all within 9” or 12”. 

It would need the Hero’s giving the auras to also make very long charges and that isn’t likely .

At the end of the day there’s a one in 6 chance of getting Wave of Terror with a single unit, it’s easy to work out how powerful on average that is.

Yes it’s powerful if you roll it on a huge 30 man unit of Grimghasts or multiple units. It’s also very weak if rolled on a Guardian of Souls or isn’t rolled at all. That’s where luck and statistics comes in.

Compared to SCE and Idoneth who have guaranteed charges with very hard hitting units it’s not that scary unless you get very lucky.

I’ve not heard any majorly competitive players suggesting it’s too powerful which speak volumes, in fact most people I’ve heard dismiss it as gimmicky because it’s not in the slightest dependable 

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Wave of terror is certainly strong when it works. That happens 1 in every 6 charges. This means that, on average, if your opponent makes 4 charge rolls in a turn, it is likely that he will, on average, get zero wave of terror charge rolls. Getting 4 in one turn is astronomically low odds. If he actually only rolled 4 charges (succeeding on all), that would be the statistical equivalent of rolling 10 4+ saves and making all of them. Clearly we wouldn’t blame a unit that has a 4+ save for a dice anomaly like that. We’d just say “man that guy got some really lucky dice”

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Spirit of Durthu is a one hit wonder. He will kill less than his points before you kill him back. Expect him hitting you and have a plan to hit him back. Also look at his degredation table and how unkind it is to him. Look at where he gets his bonus attacks and try to minimise. Oh, and he hates ethereal saves more than you hate him.

Dont get psyched out, you have al of the tools to deal with Durthu and more.

 

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59 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Durthu + lots of spirit hosts + lantern of rerolls = dead tree

 

To be honest 6 or more Hosts + reroll lantern = dead/dying just about anything.

6 hosts with a Lantern is 7 mortals and 3.5 rend 0 hits on average. Let’s not get hyperbolic now :)

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