AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[relic456]

The wording in the app reads to me like you need to roll a 3 to bring back a Spirit Host model. "Alternatively, instead of healing the unit you picked, if models from that unit have been slain, you can return them to the unit.  Roll a D3; you can return any slain models to that unit that have a combined Wounds characteristic of less than or equal to the number you rolled."  So if you roll a 2 on the D3, the Spirit Host model can't be brought back since its Wounds characteristic is 3 and therefore not less than or equal than the 2 you rolled.

[Tropical Ghost General]

2 hours ago, Benlisted said:

Hordes, then reapers, then hosts are our most durable units per point. Chainghasts, then banshees are the least. 

Nice maths. Any chance you can do this with the heroes as well? 

Do you think that rasps are more durable than grims considering the difference in saving throws? 

[Benlisted]

54 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Nice maths. Any chance you can do this with the heroes as well? 

Do you think that rasps are more durable than grims considering the difference in saving throws? 

I might add them at some point. To be honest though there's few you take for their combat prowess so I slacked off on doing them initially :p.

It takes exactly the same amount of damage caused to remove a full unit of each - 72. Because they're cheaper this makes the horde more points efficient in terms of durability. If you're putting mystic shield on, it actually doesn't change anything since the horde gets more rerolls, but the reapers pass the rerolls easier. Added a column in the spreadsheet showing damage to kill the unit anyway. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Benlisted

[Scurvydog]

On the topic of the heroes I am currently building a 1k list and having a hard time choosing between 2 setups.

My core list is:

20 chainrasps

20 grimghast reapers

1 black coach

Now this makes room for some hero setups, but the 2 main ones I am considering are:

Mounted KoS + Guardian of souls or Reikenor + Dreadblade Harrow.

The general would then either be the knight or the dreadblade with a midnight tome, so in either case I will have 2 wizards.

The setup with the guardian will give me a bit more staying power with the handy d6 heal spell and a bit better support with the knights command ability and the +1 wound rolls from the guardian.

The other setup gives me Reikenor who is a very versatile model, with a nasty punch and the dreadblade as a general provides some mobility tricks.

 

I think losing the guardian is a bigger deal than the knight, but the mobility and offensive utility and punch of the Reikenor and harrow setup might make up for it. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this, maybe I am undervaluing other options as well.

 

[Kirjava13]

Had the game. Aside from being dispirited by some absolutely appalling dice, I have two main takeaways:

1) The Spirit of Durthu is ******.

2) I am bad at this game.

[comma44]

5 hours ago, Benlisted said:

Poor spirit hosts and hexwraiths (though I haven't factored in their movement MWs) are terrible in terms of points per wound - they pay a real premium for MWs and resurrection efficiency. Same for chainghasts, even factoring in the shooting, unless you get in against an absolute ton of models. 

 

I think your math was a bit off for the Spirit Hosts . A unit of 6 should be averaging 6 MW per round. In the sheet you're taking 1/6 of the hits as MW not 1/6 of the attacks.  The Hexwraiths I'm guessing need to be adjusted accordingly as well.

 

The spreadsheet is awesome btw. Thanks for putting it together.

Edited August 10, 2018 by comma44

[Neck-Romantic]

Got a few games in yesterday and what I've been noticing with NH is either the enemy will snipe your healers off the table or you will snowball through their entire army.

I'm liking Torments more than GoS's, as they actually hit like bricks, and (vs stormcast; my meta) their heal is more relaible than GoS. Plus having them bust out 10" charge bonus round of combat hits surprisingly hard.

The Mourngul actually still seems to pull his weight despite looking bad on paper, especially in a 2 torment list.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Benlisted]

11 minutes ago, comma44 said:

I think your math was a bit off for the Spirit Hosts . A unit of 6 should be averaging 6 MW per round. In the sheet you're taking 1/6 of the hits as MW not 1/6 of the attacks.  The Hexwraiths I'm guessing need to be adjusted accordingly as well.

 

The spreadsheet is awesome btw. Thanks for putting it together.

Aha yes, good shout. I probably won't get to that until Sunday now but will be sure to amend when I get a moment. That will probably make the mourngul look better too. 

[Kirjava13]

Right, now I've calmed down a bit, I can process. 

We generated a scenario from the GHB18 and the deployment zone... threw me for a loop I think, it was the one where the deployment zones are right next to each other so you can get in the fight straight away and something about this appears to have scrambled my brain, as I merrily plonked down my Chainrasps in range of his Spirit of Durthu, which promptly killed almost all of them when he got first turn. Six damage, and with the Ghyran artefact that gives +1 to hit and wound, so 2s and 2s... If it weren't for my remembering my death save I would have lost the whole unit right there in the first turn. And that's after doing 4 damage to Reikenor with his ranged attack.

I hate the Spirit of Durthu. This is a point I may return to.

Already playing like an idiot, I apparently decided to go full moron and, after a vaguely successful magic barrage (got some wounds onto the SoD and healed Reikenor back to full health), I got it into my head that the best place for the Grimhailer was in combat against 20 Dryads. 

In case any of you reading this have head injuries as brutal as the one I appear to have been suffering from, the best place for the Grimhailer is not in combat against 20 Dryads.

SoD polished off the Chainrasps and then munched his way through the Spirit Hosts, before trying his luck against the Guardian of Souls, who was able to dodge survive where almost 30 wounds of ghosts had not. The Dryads finished off Reikenor, and the Spirit Torment won the coveted Nighthaunt of the Match award by being the only one to actually achieve anything, clubbing the Branchsomething (wych? Wraith? I have no idea. The one that can summon Dryads) to death. My Reapers did a lot of damage to the Dryads but then SoD turned up to do something stupid like 12 wounds to them, and given that by that point I had about 5 Reapers, a Spirit Torment and a wounded Guardian of Souls left, I threw in the ectoplasm-soaked towel. He had not even brought his Kurnoth Hunters or Spite Revenants onto the table.

Even if I had not deployed like a gibbon or thrown Reikenor to a twiggy death, I am uncertain as to what I can do against SoD. The only thing that made a dent in it was all my spells, and he just regenerated. I am also at a loss about what to do against Wyldwoods- do I just have to try and pop terrain down to try and minimise how they can be placed? The set-up seems so lenient on them, and on a small board (48"x48") they are impossible to ignore.

What can I do better, apart from get better dice?

Also, I hate the Spirit of Durthu.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Kirjava13

[TheWolfLord]

This is why I’m a firm believer in having a unit of 8 or 12 Myrmourn Banshees in my lists. Firstly they’ll shut down some of the casting but they are one of our few units that have rend -2. If you face a SoD or similar buff them with extra attacks and send them in. If you don’t kill it in a turn you’ll at least have crippled it so it’s threat is massively reduced.

[Tropical Ghost General]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

What can I do better, apart from get better dice?

I had an intro set of games today, teaching someone how to play AoS, them coming from 40k. My 12 murmourn in 3 rounds of combat (against skeles) did 12 damage, all of which was healed back in their hero phase. That's 12 banshees buffed with extra attacks and a GoS for +1 to wound. I would burn my dice but they glow in the dark ?. We ran just one set of attacks from those rounds of combat on the GW dice app afterwards and got 38 damage. 

Wyld Woods are a pain. In the same way as gravesites in a LoN are a pain with healing. Without it though trees are weak. A good tree player uses them to put onto objectives, meaning all you can do is focus on the objectives they don't have. Let them come to you (if possible). I went against a SoD with 40 rasps while it was in the woods. Did 160 attacks in 2 rounds of combat and didn't get a single wound, due to a 2+ save, re-rolling 1s. ?

[Lanoss]

Sylvaneth have next to no mortal wound save possibilities so Spirit Hosts and Reikenor and Lady Olynder would be your best bet... also not deploying like a muppet. 

Aginst SoD, you at least want to get him down a profile because that drops him from damage 6 to damage d6. And send him Spirit Hosts (in your turn), their mortal wound output will be devastating to him, meanwhile healing and returning Spirit Hosts each turn

Against Dryads, either leave them alone (unless they’re on an objective) or send in the Grimghasts! 

[Kurrilino]

10 hours ago, ledha said:

One guy in my local area play 3x30 grimghast reapers in a LON allegiance. He is still unbeaten. Ton of mobility, tricks, resilience and hard-hitting power. He was able to punch trough a daughter of haine army with ton of witches as well as my skulltake in a pure brawl

May i ask to explain a little bit further ?

Is LON "Legion of Night" or do i miss something here. Because if the Reapers are allies they cost 1080 points.

And Nighthaunt can't be allies of Legion of the Night

I'm a little bit confused here.

[kenshin620]

12 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

May i ask to explain a little bit further ?

Is LON "Legion of Night" or do i miss something here. Because if the Reapers are allies they cost 1080 points.

And Nighthaunt can't be allies of Legion of the Night

I'm a little bit confused here.

Reapers are a normal, non battleline, unit in Legions of Nagash.

[Tropical Ghost General]

10 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

I'm a little bit confused here.

So all the ghost models from the Soul Wars box can be taken in LoN (Legion of Nagash) army. Chainrasps can even be used as battleline.

Also all the allegiances in the LoN book can ally with Nighthaunt, but Nighthaunt can only ally with Death lords & Soulblight 

[Kurrilino]

uhmm.. where can i find this information ???

The Legions of Nagash Book states the only allies are Flesh eaters except for Soulblight ????

You guys are far ahead of me. And what the heck is a Legion of Nagash army ???

[kenshin620]

18 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

uhmm.. where can i find this information ???

The Legions of Nagash Book states the only allies are Flesh eaters except for Soulblight ????

You guys are far ahead of me. And what the heck is a Legion of Nagash army ???

Legions of Nagash is the battletome book, which contains the Legions. Technically there is no Legion of Nagash allegiance but all the legions share the same units (with a few battleline IF options).

The update to LoN came from the 2.0 update Errata/FAQ.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_legions_of_nagash_errata_en-1.pdf

 

[Kurrilino]

Just now, kenshin620 said:

Legions of Nagash is the battletome book, which contains the Legions. Technically there is no Legion of Nagash allegiance but all the legions share the same units (with a few battleline IF options).

The update to LoN came from the 2.0 update Errata/FAQ.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_legions_of_nagash_errata_en-1.pdf

 

Thank you very much. I appreciate it

[Tropical Ghost General]

52 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

uhmm.. where can i find this information ???

The Legions of Nagash Book states the only allies are Flesh eaters except for Soulblight ????

You guys are far ahead of me. And what the heck is a Legion of Nagash army ???

All faction allies got updated in the GHB18 (General's Handbook 2018), as originally LoN couldn't ally with Nighthaunt, but now they can. Though allies can't benefit from any special army rules, such as deathless minions save. 

The general death grand alliance book was basically replaced by the Legions of Nagash battletome. A Death Grand Alliance army is much weaker than a LoN army, as there are no gravesites, no spell lore, etc... So it's generally considered that LoN is the new generic Death battletome. 

FEC (Flesh Eaters Courts) & NH (Nighthaunt) are both separate Death factions, but each have their own battletome. If you wanted to run a mixed Death Grand Alliance, then you need to use the allegiance rules from the new Core Book, but then you need to use the most up to date version of warscrolls for the units that you want to use, which could mean referencing from all 3 of the Death battletomes (FEC, LoN & NH). 

Always check to see if there has been any updates to the FAQ (on the warhammer community page), as they'll update things, changing what was published in the battletome. Sometimes it's rules, or keywords on warscrolls, etc...

Does that help? 

[Smavo]

How on earth did SoD get 2+ save. He doesnt gain the +1 from cover because he is a monster with over 8 wounds. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Smavo

[Kirjava13]

He didn't have a 2+ save, he was rolling 2+ to hit and wound thanks to an artefact.

[TheWolfLord]

7 minutes ago, Smavo said:

How on earth did SoD get 2+ save. He doesnt gain the +1 from cover because he is a monster with over 8 wounds. 

Using the Oaken Armour relic I’d imagine

[Smavo]

It's pretty easy to "kite" sylvaneths now as the woods have the overgrown rule from the citadel wood scenery aswell. So as long as there is 1" between a model in the wood crossing the base of the wood they do not have LoS so if they do want to turtle in their wood then they lose their muscle attacks. So you can either avoid them and swarm another objective or make them come to you.

[Smavo]

4 minutes ago, TheWolfLord said:

Using the Oaken Armour relic I’d imagine

Yes but that means that they have put alot of resources to have that SoD at 2+ save so if you know that why engage?

[Tropical Ghost General]

4 minutes ago, Smavo said:

Yes but that means that they have put alot of resources to have that SoD at 2+ save so if you know that why engage?

The mission I was playing had 3 objectives. I had one, the tree ****** in the woods had the other (which my rasps tried to take) and Alarielle was sat on the 3rd objective, buffed by woods. Was a difficult choice to make, and I lost due to the trees having a greater healing/longevity than my ghosts. ?