AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Nevar]

Again I have to point out...

The only pricing that is poor is the Chainrasps so far.  Everything else has been really well priced.

$45 named characters.  That is par for the course or even cheap in comparison to most GW characters.

$25 for two Dreadblades.  That is outstanding pricing.

$45 for 12 Myrmourns is surprisingly cheap especially with the fancy base work and such.

$45 for Grimghasts is par for the course.

$115 is not really that expensive for what the Black Coach is.  It makes me only likely to ever have one, but like most other centerpieces it is priced like one and is larger and more complex than even Nagash.

$40 Spirit Torment box is well priced -if- you want all three models.  Spirit Torment is a hero we could easily have paid $25-$30 for him, look at the Knight of Shrouds or other single hero models.  +$10 for the two Chaingasts is not exactly terrible.  Mind you, I think this is expensive, but it is not like it is wildly out of GW's normal pricing scheme.

The only Nighthaunt unit that is terribly priced so far is the Chainrasps.  Perhaps it is a mistake.

[Marucho]

Lol! Yeah, it's probably a typo...

Edited July 29, 2018 by Marucho

[Luke1705]

Seriously doubt that GW priced their products  accidentally. In any case, I think it’s high time to take the complaining somewhere else. I know misery loves company, but I’d love to talk about actual tactics or battle reports. Even things like “are sprit hosts/hexwraiths still competitive units?” would be a marked improvement over wishing there was a 5-10 dollar price reduction on a kit.

[Neck-Romantic]

Im hoping bladegheists are parralell with Grimghasts. 

Suprised they still havnt hit preorder

[Nevar]

2 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Im hoping bladegheists are parralell with Grimghasts. 

Suprised they still havnt hit preorder

Yeah... the one kit I want more than any other and we still have no eta on when they are released. 

[Yokai]

Next week's preorders are up for your perusal.

I say, the "alternative" Executioner looks wayyy better than the rather derpy Soul wars one.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Yokai

[Luke1705]

Here’s a topic: let’s talk heroes. I assume most lists are going to have a minimum of three heroes because we need AOE coverage for deathless spirits.

I’m thinking Reikenor is too cool of a model not to take, and him casting endless spells reliably is beautiful with Cogs, maybe even Geminids turn 2.

I love the harrow model but I feel like the ultimate mobility (and the ability to drag a unit to him) isn’t worth it when we can do the latter without him and can deep strike any unit we want.

The foot knight of shrouds is nice but I feel like in between inspiring presence, re-rolling charges, and teleporting units around the board (all of which are pretty important for us) we won’t have a ton of CP to use on many actual command abilities. Plus, grimghast reapers having re-rolls to hit mitigates a decent amount of +1 to hit.

Same goes for the mounted knight (likely lack of CP) although his command ability is more enticing. Lot of potential attacks.

Guardian of souls with the +1 to wound aura is beautiful. Nightmare lantern is just icing on the cake, especially if you take the +3 model relic lantern. The +3” move relic is also awesome, lessened in importance only by the fact that deep striking turn 1 is likely how most nighthaunt units that care about positioning will deploy.

The other guardian of souls is intriguing. The extra move spell doesn’t work after deep strike, so that’s sad (but not surprising) but giving any unit the ability to fall back, move again, and then charge might be worth it alone, even over the +1 wound aura. Not sure if the spell is going to be cast all that reliably, so it makes me skeptical to use a unit solely on that basis compared to an always on aura ability (and the ability to cast a different spell).

I think Olynder is too glass cannon for 240 points (though what a beautifully terrifying cannon she is)

Kurdoss is interesting (and much more of a beat stick than most people would imagine) but I’m not a fan of saying “I hope I roll a 5+ and I hope that matters for your army”

I like spirit torments a lot for chainrasps (but not for grimghast reapers, who don’t benefit from the re-roll)

Not sure why anyone would take a lord executioner.

That’s a lie - I’m not sure why anyone would take a Cairn Wraith with so many force multiplication options, unless you just want the cheapest HQ to give deathless spirits, but I feel like that’s a waste.

Same goes for the tomb banshee. Not much stock in a leadership bomb list for nighthaunt.

[Neck-Romantic]

I feel the Banshee and Cwraith are mostly there for smaller point games or squeezing a Deathless spirits zone in with deepstrikers.

Ultimately the GoS and STorment are the winners for me, with Harrow and mKoS (either with midnight tome close seconds

Im quite confused as to just how similar Glavewraiths and Bladegheists are... and in the end if anything is worth more than just running stupid amounts of grimghast spam.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[GeneralZero]

17 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Im quite confused as to just how similar Glavewraiths and Bladegheists

their roles are quite different. The reapers are the center anvil, hitting hard, protecting some HQ, and supremly fixing the ennemy line - if not breaking it.

The glaves are more a mobile hammer, hitting like a truck by themselves  in a hit charge hit charge danse. The enemy can't ignore tham but have to think what to do with them. 10 or 15 are enough to be efficient.

[Nevar]

7 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

Here’s a topic: let’s talk heroes. I assume most lists are going to have a minimum of three heroes because we need AOE coverage for deathless spirits.

I’m thinking Reikenor is too cool of a model not to take, and him casting endless spells reliably is beautiful with Cogs, maybe even Geminids turn 2.

I love the harrow model but I feel like the ultimate mobility (and the ability to drag a unit to him) isn’t worth it when we can do the latter without him and can deep strike any unit we want.

The foot knight of shrouds is nice but I feel like in between inspiring presence, re-rolling charges, and teleporting units around the board (all of which are pretty important for us) we won’t have a ton of CP to use on many actual command abilities. Plus, grimghast reapers having re-rolls to hit mitigates a decent amount of +1 to hit.

Same goes for the mounted knight (likely lack of CP) although his command ability is more enticing. Lot of potential attacks.

Guardian of souls with the +1 to wound aura is beautiful. Nightmare lantern is just icing on the cake, especially if you take the +3 model relic lantern. The +3” move relic is also awesome, lessened in importance only by the fact that deep striking turn 1 is likely how most nighthaunt units that care about positioning will deploy.

The other guardian of souls is intriguing. The extra move spell doesn’t work after deep strike, so that’s sad (but not surprising) but giving any unit the ability to fall back, move again, and then charge might be worth it alone, even over the +1 wound aura. Not sure if the spell is going to be cast all that reliably, so it makes me skeptical to use a unit solely on that basis compared to an always on aura ability (and the ability to cast a different spell).

I think Olynder is too glass cannon for 240 points (though what a beautifully terrifying cannon she is)

Kurdoss is interesting (and much more of a beat stick than most people would imagine) but I’m not a fan of saying “I hope I roll a 5+ and I hope that matters for your army”

I like spirit torments a lot for chainrasps (but not for grimghast reapers, who don’t benefit from the re-roll)

Not sure why anyone would take a lord executioner.

That’s a lie - I’m not sure why anyone would take a Cairn Wraith with so many force multiplication options, unless you just want the cheapest HQ to give deathless spirits, but I feel like that’s a waste.

Same goes for the tomb banshee. Not much stock in a leadership bomb list for nighthaunt.

Reikenor the Grim Hailer:  Reliable spell casts, including cogs or even offensive spells.  He is basically an advanced Mounted Knight of Shrouds with Midnight Tome.  Everyone knows a mKoS with the Tome is awesome, Reikenor is just a purely improved version of the same.

Kurdoss the Craven King:  Unreliable but with potential.  Don't think I would ever take him, but I do so want his doot horn for conversions at least. 

Lady Olynder:  The advanced Doom of Malantai of AoS, she is such a glorious damage dealer and support piece I would love to use her... but she does not fit into any of my lists what so ever.

Mounted Knight of Shrouds: A major contender for the General slot nearly every time thanks to the model, his speed, and his command ability. +1 attacks is so good, and keeping him within range of what you need it on is easy.  Add in d3 revived models and he is an amazingly good Hexwraith leader.  Plus you can make him a wizard as well if you want.  For me who uses minimum 15 hexwraiths he is an auto-include.

Knight of Shrouds:  The +1 to hit can make things like Bladegeists 2+ to hit with rerolls.  Add in the mKoS and you can have 4 attacks per Revenent hitting on re-rolled 2+ and wounding on 2+ with a Spirit Torment...  While that takes 2 cp, it could mulch some stuff.  With Shroud Guard that could make an exceptional mainline to cut through enemy front lines.  Foot KoS is situational, but could be super awesome with his Shroud Guard formation.

Dreadblade Harrows:  These guys are auto-includes for me.  A hero who can teleport to objectives or help our forces relocate is priceless, especially when they are only 100 points.  Would honestly consider making one the general and a wizard in place of a mKoS.  The teleportation of our units late game can literally win games.

Guardian of Souls:  Auto include if I am using any infantry.  Returning d6 models a turn from his spell is too good to pass up.  Plus he is a ghost wizard and we need casters if only for spell defense.

Spirit Torment:  Depends on the list and what my plans are.  I mainly would use this guy to buff Chainrasps, as the other main infantry already reroll hits normally.  Would keep him near Bladegeists, but a pair of Chaingeists grant the reroll just as well and for cheaper.

Lord Executioner:  Would use him as a warband leader in Skirmish.  That is all.

Cairn Wraith:  Would take a Cairn Wraith over a Lord Executioner because they are cool and do mortal wounds with Frightful Touch on their scythes.  Also they make cheap Deathless Minions bubbles.

Tomb Banshee:  Would use her as a warband leader in Skirmish... that is it.

[Shinzra]

Hey everyone, how does the following list look?

+++ Nighthaunt  (Age of Sigmar) [1980pts] +++

++ *Old* *Pitched Battle (2,000)* (Death: Legions of Nagash and Nighthaunt) ++

+ Leader +

Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

Spirit Torment

+ Behemoth +

Black Coach

+ Battleline +

30 Grimghast Reapers

6 Spirit Hosts

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Chainguard
30 Chainrasps
30 Chainrasps
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern: 3. Beacon of Nagashizzar, Chill Blade

+ Allegiance +

Alliegiance: Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Edited July 29, 2018 by Shinzra

[ledha]

The lord Executionner can be a good general. He is the most resilient of our heroes (already having another invulnerable save) and none of our command abilities ask the character to be general (except olynder i suppose), so he nicely fill the bill

[dmorley21]

I plan on using a Tomb Banshee, mainly for nostalgic reasons and because it's a fairly cheap character.

However, I think she can be pretty useful against low bravery units or armies. The bulk of the armies that my friends play have bravery 6. With Nighthaunt's allegiance ability, that knocks it down to 5. So, a Ghostly Howl could be fairly nasty. And she can deepstrike so that you can put her where she'll be most effective. I do wish she had something else to offer though.

[TheWolfLord]

It depends on the battalions I end up running but I’ll always try and get a Spirit Torment in my list.

He’s the only way to get some healing if your opponent gets a double turn and as he can heal Hero’s as well as return slain models he could be key in keeping an important unit or model alive until our Hero phase.

Add in his rerolls plus any artefacts he’s given and he can’t be dismissed. We have a lot of good hero’s but the ones that buff and offer healing are the most important.

 

 

[Luke1705]

4 hours ago, TheWolfLord said:

It depends on the battalions I end up running but I’ll always try and get a Spirit Torment in my list.

He’s the only way to get some healing if your opponent gets a double turn and as he can heal Hero’s as well as return slain models he could be key in keeping an important unit or model alive until our Hero phase.

Add in his rerolls plus any artefacts he’s given and he can’t be dismissed. We have a lot of good hero’s but the ones that buff and offer healing are the most important.

 

 

What gets me is that other models offer healing, and his aura ability is somewhat negated by the fact that I do think our best rank and file unit is the reapers, who (almost always) get full re-rolls against almost everything you run into

[Luke1705]

Also am I the only one decidedly underwhelmed by our battalions? The coach one is ok and if you’re going with 2 giant blocks of chainrasps, sure do that one....but why are you doing 2 giant blocks of chainrasps when reapers are battleline? Only application I see would be going full “kill me over 5 turns you won’t” but I think legions of nagash does that a lot better tbh

[TheWolfLord]

No other model allows healing in the battleshock phase or even in your opponents turn though.

Our hero’s all have a low wound characteristic, if your opponent decides he wants to make a push to try and hurt Lady Olynder and hope for a double turn to finish her off you can lesson the chances by giving her a quick heal with a Spirit Torment. 

Same idea for a key unit that’s taken a hit during your opponents turn. Your opponent may not get the double turn but if they do a Spirit Torment or 2 can get that unit back up in numbers and hopefully stop it getting wiped out. 

Even if your opponent doesn’t get a double turn they’re still healing 2D3 over a battle round. Once you get into turn 2 there should always be some deaths each turn so it’s not hard to proc his ability. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by TheWolfLord

[Mcrat]

Hey all I'm new to AoS. Been trying to plan out a path to 2000 points so I can slowly build my way there. I've purchased Soul Wars and the Battletome but that's all I've got so far. Is this list an ok one to aim for?

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome  (Soul Cage)
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126

My thinking is the splitting the units up into these groups to maximise their abilities:

• Shroudguard and Spirit Torment - kill stuff and heal
• Black Coach and Spirit Hosts - kill stuff and heal
• Chainrasp, Reapers, GoS - use as needed to kill or hold and heal from range

Having not played AoS before, I don't know what mix of units to take to ensure I've got my bases covered for in game. But I'm hoping this has enough stuff to allow me to adapt as needed without having gone all in on one specific unit.

[GeneralZero]

I like this kind of balanced list. It is well into the spirit of the game

 

[TheWolfLord]

21 minutes ago, Mcrat said:

Hey all I'm new to AoS. Been trying to plan out a path to 2000 points so I can slowly build my way there. I've purchased Soul Wars and the Battletome but that's all I've got so far. Is this list an ok one to aim for?

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome  (Soul Cage)
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar

Battleline
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126

My thinking is the splitting the units up into these groups to maximise their abilities:

• Shroudguard and Spirit Torment - kill stuff and heal
• Black Coach and Spirit Hosts - kill stuff and heal
• Chainrasp, Reapers, GoS - use as needed to kill or hold and heal from range

Having not played AoS before, I don't know what mix of units to take to ensure I've got my bases covered for in game. But I'm hoping this has enough stuff to allow me to adapt as needed without having gone all in on one specific unit.

It’s not a bad list at all, your battleline has good numbers and should be tough to get through, you’ve got some decent hero’s and have managed to fit in some hard hitters.

Definitely a good a place as any to start and there are no glaring weaknesses

[AverageBoss]

Thinking I might try out this list in a couple weeks:
 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
Black Coach (280)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

[Luke1705]

One thing I've been thinking a lot is that we really need our heroes more so than other armies.  I think that the minimum number of heroes at 2k should be 3 (although I'm having trouble finding the points for a 4th one) just because we really want to spread around deathless spirits and we can't just daisy chain since we have to be wholly within 12".

[Nevar]

48 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

One thing I've been thinking a lot is that we really need our heroes more so than other armies.  I think that the minimum number of heroes at 2k should be 3 (although I'm having trouble finding the points for a 4th one) just because we really want to spread around deathless spirits and we can't just daisy chain since we have to be wholly within 12".

You do not need to get full coverage on your Deathless Spirits saves though.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you like to play, Nighthaunt is a very aggressive shock and awe type force that relies on you mostly controlling the tempo of the battle.  We are fast, we can deep-strike, we get benefits from long charges, we rely on heroes we don't want sniped for synergies.  All of this means you need to stay on top of the control of the flow of the battle.  If you are doing it right, you should be able to control where they thickest of the fighting will be and where Deathless Spirits will pay the highest value.

I don't say that in a "If you are good then..." sort of way, I mean it as a "This is how Nighthaunt plays." sort of way.  We should be controlling when and where the main 'scrum' is taking place.  We should be controlling when and where large flanking moves are happening, and we should already have it in mind where and when a hero is needed in the area.  This is another huge point in favor of Dreadblade Harrows, because they give us some room for error with all of our deep-strikes.  If we make an error, we have have a Dreadblade teleport into position to help smooth things over.  Other smaller elements of our forces who might run around grabbing objectives and the like do not usually require a baby-sitter hero to give them Deathless Spirits, and so the attentions of our excellent heroes can be focused on the main event.  Our forces are fast enough to flee or reposition to counter and react to enemy redeployments.

[Smavo]

Been list building over the last few days and I believe I've settled on my list.

-- Leaders --

Lady O

- Soul age

Craven King

GoS

- General

- Cloaked in Shadow

- Sepultural Plate

- Shademist

Spirit Torment

- Midnight Tome

- Spectral Tether

Vampire Lord

- Ally

 

-- Battleline --

Chainrasp Hordes x30

Chainrasp Hordes x30

Spirit Hosts x6

 

-- Behemoth --

Black Coach

- Reapers Scythe

 

-- Battalion --

Chaingaurd

 

-- Endless Spells --

Soulsnare Shackles

 

My reasoning behind Craven king is that by his wording the command point stealing ability triggers even if he is deployed in underworld. So he is deployed there and deep strikes to go right after their general. A speed bump if you will.

The vamp lords command ability is just flat better. From hero to hero and within 15 instead of wholly within.

 

Thoughts?

[ajax_xaja]

So what role do you guys see the Black Coach filling in your lists? Not quite the beatstick model that I was looking for, but it's certainly tanky, and can probably run the board safely on its own. Should I be using it as a disruptor/flanker with Hexwraiths and deepstriking it?

Feels like with the ridiculous amount of speed that it has I can deepstrike out of charge reach, and get a turn 2 charge safely.