AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Nevar]

4 hours ago, Ungface said:

Well. One unit has to be the worst doesnt it.

I think the Harridans are the worst unit in our battle tome.

As to Glaivewraiths, people are forgetting a feature of them that makes them more worth it.  They are naturally able to be used in Legions of Nagash armies.

Bladegeists -are- plain better but they also clock in at nearly 400 points for a full squad, eating up all of your allied points in a LoN army.  Glaivewraiths are slightly worse versions of the Bladegeists in every way except as a LoN player you can just include them as normal units with the LoN keywords.  Their ability to leave combat and charge something else is awesome, we only say 'meh' because we have Bladegeists.

Even still, Glaivewraiths have the potential to cause more damage over a game than the same Grimghasts do, thanks to their ability to charge every turn and fish for 10+ charges for extra rounds of combat.  Grimghasts generally will get one, maybe two attempts for their 10+ charge per game, Glaivewraiths can easily get 3-5 attempts, especially since they are less likely to draw ire thanks to their less murderous profile.

[Lightbox]

2 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I think the Harridans are the worst unit in our battle tome.

 

Harridans and Glaivewraiths are both units I quite like the look of and want to use... orz

And so it shall be that I lightbox shall endeavour to make everyones least favourite units work in my lists and lead my army of spooky-boi underdogs! 

I mean they may be worse but glaivewraiths certainly don't look unplayable which is nice  Haven't seen profile for harridans yet though. But my local club is mostly casual as opposed to competetive (not to say that some people don't build tough lists) so will be interesting to see how they do  Though I do plan to pick up a unit of bladegheists too because I love the look of them!!

[Kirjava13]

I spent this afternoon/evening getting the ectoplasm kicked out of me, and I have some thoughts.

I hate Treemen.

I hate Retributors.

I took the following (20 points over but he was 10 points over and we called it even):

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
Spirit Torment (120)
Lord Executioner (80)

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (140)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Units
8 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (120)

Total: 1020 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 68

My main takeaway was that I really need to remember rules. In my defence, it was only my second full game of AoS, I forgot my allegiance abilities entirely. Entirely! I missed so many synergies, and as a result got my spooky butt handed to me. Things started off well, I bubble-wrapped properly, murdered his Spite Revenants with my Spirit Hosts, did a lot of damage to his Dryads with my Grimghast Reapers, put 4 wounds on his Stormcast general with the Glaivewraith Stalkers and the Knight of Shrouds killed the Branchwych. Then the Retributors came down, his Treelord did some movement shenanigans and everything started to fall apart. The Retributors slowly murdered their way through my left flank, killing the Spirit Hosts and the Grimghast Reapers. The Treelord squashed the Guardian of Souls, a Grandhammer just flat out annihilated the Executioner and I started getting unlucky with my rolls. When he got a double turn going from battle round 3-4, it was all over. The Chainrasps, the Spirit Torment and the Knight of Shrouds held out in the centre, making an attempt to kill the Treeman, but his 3+ rerolling 1s save was just too much, and he was healing himself with Regrowth. He surrounded me and murdered me, though the Knight of Shrouds killed the Stormcast general who had survived with one wound for most of the game. Curses! 

So, main thoughts:

Remember your rules!
Gotta use them synergies.
Starsoul Maces are BÜLLS**T.
Wildwoods are infuriating.
The Spirit Torment is really good. 
Get some rend.

[SleeperAgent]

28 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Starsoul Maces are BÜLLS**T.

This is my counter to "Mounrgul is op" every single time. Sorry your 80-100 cheaper unit gets guaranteed mortals and I have to roll 6's.

 

(To be fair though, in one game I got TWO 10+ charge attacks with my Mourngul  )

[choocheelo]

On 7/5/2018 at 12:42 PM, choocheelo said:

Fogive me, if i mised something but i dont see rules for NH that says about summoning . NH dont get it or what?

come on! nobody knows?

[Kirjava13]

4 minutes ago, choocheelo said:

come on! nobody knows?

Sorry. No, there's no summoning of units- you can regenerate models but once a unit is gone, it's gone.

[Nevar]

Nighthaunt is not your endless undead faction.  For that you need LoN.

Legions of Nagash can even bring back swaths of ghosties also.  So if you want summoning and endless undead, play your ghosts as LoN.

[Keldaur]

I have been playing extensively this weeks. Really liking the army thus far. Planning on getting an execution force battallion rolling for regular games.

 

 

[Orik Jarlson]

What are peoples thought on running multiple spirit torments?

[SleeperAgent]

10 minutes ago, Orik Jarlson said:

What are peoples thought on running multiple spirit torments?

I feel like they are either the best or second best battleline. They already do a truckload of damage, once I get my Lady Olynder they will be even better with her command ability. As they have the highest wound to model ratio of summonable nighthaunt. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Spirit Torments aren't Battleline? I think you're thinking of another unit.

[SleeperAgent]

35 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Spirit Torments aren't Battleline? I think you're thinking of another unit.

You are correct, my bad. Thought Spirit Hosts.

[Nevar]

Got my Battle Tome, went through it and came up with a few highlights.

1.)  Knight of Shrouds on Foot no longer needs to be General to use his command ability.

2.)  Ruler of the Spirit Hosts returns 1d3 models, perfect for a mKoS and his Hexwraiths, or a KoS and some Spirit Hosts.

3.)  Black Coach also returns d3 models not wounds, making it ace in the Riders battalion.  mKoS and the Black Coach can return 2d3 Hexwraiths to the battle.

4.)  Reaper of Shyish has the potential to do massive damage, or do literally nothing.  Very risk reward version of the Pendulum.

5.)  Also, this is my own fault and I have been playing my Hexwraiths poorly for over a year...  Hexwraiths are mini-Endless Spells with their Spectral Hunters rule.  They only need to pass over models to cause MWs, this could literally just be flying forward and then going back to where they started.  With a Pendant of the Fell Wind nearby they move 15".  For some reason I always thought you had to jump clear over a unit to do this... I am a dumby.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Nevar

[Neck-Romantic]

I've always wondered about the hexwraiths ability... I think you actually need to place the model to effect things youve crossed over, the thought of just saying you flew around and came back to the same spot and alllocating MW's seems a bit WAAC

Edited July 7, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Lightbox]

24 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I've always wondered about the hexwraiths ability... I think you actually need to place the model to effect things youve crossed over, the thought of just saying you flew around and came back to the same spot and alllocating MW's seems a bit WAAC

Flamespire pheonix is allowed to do it.

[The Cyclop Owl]

3 hours ago, Nevar said:

2.)  Ruler of the Spirit Hosts returns 1d3 models, perfect for a mKoS and his Hexwraiths, or a KoS and some Spirit Hosts.

3.)  Black Coach also returns d3 models not wounds, making it ace in the Riders battalion.  mKoS and the Black Coach can return 2d3 Hexwraiths to the battle.

That's really cool, and it might push me over the edge to playing the Deathriders in 1000 points game. They're still gonna be fragile, but at least they have strong come back mechanics if they get mauled a bit. 

Knight of Shroud on Steed 140
- Ruler of the Spirit Host
- Slitter

Dreadblade Harrow 100
- Midnight Tome
- Soul Cage

5x Hexwraiths 160

5x Hexwraiths 160

Black Coach 280

Battalion: Deathriders 130pts

Total: 970

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

[Mikeymajq]

That sounds like a real fun list, and will look awesome on the table. But that model count has me worried. Gotta br real careful not to get thr hexwraiths completely wiped out or it's gonna be trouble. I think maybe the cost of the black coach is a tad high for a 1k pts game. Added with the points for the battalion and there's not much left. 

[The Cyclop Owl]

1 hour ago, Mikeymajq said:

That sounds like a real fun list, and will look awesome on the table. But that model count has me worried. Gotta br real careful not to get thr hexwraiths completely wiped out or it's gonna be trouble. I think maybe the cost of the black coach is a tad high for a 1k pts game. Added with the points for the battalion and there's not much left. 

I can only agree, which is why I'm also trying to find a way to start from the other end. This list will definitely be part of a 2000 points list, but I don't quite know how to approach it. 
At the moment, I'm thinking Grimghast Reapers, because of their speed and ability to murder hordes -- which would be the direct counter to the Deathriders.

Reikenor the Grimhailer 180

Guardian of Soul 140

30 x Grimghast Reapers 360

How would you finish this list for 1000pts?

[Nevar]

1 minute ago, The Cyclop Owl said:

I can only agree, which is why I'm also trying to find a way to start from the other end. This list will definitely be part of a 2000 points list, but I don't quite know how to approach it. 
At the moment, I'm thinking Grimghast Reapers, because of their speed and ability to murder hordes -- which would be the direct counter to the Deathriders.

Reikenor the Grimhailer 180

Guardian of Soul 140

30 x Grimghast Reapers 360

How would you finish this list for 1000pts?

Nah, you just add a second Death Rider Battalion.

When in doubt, double down. 

[Mikeymajq]

Is having units of 10 hexwraiths excessive? Kind of reasoning to make the units harder to take out. So you get the most out of your 'return d3 models' abilities. I can't comment on Reikenor as I forgot what he does ?

Grimghasts seem super good so a block of them would certainly be ace.

[AverageBoss]

7 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I've always wondered about the hexwraiths ability... I think you actually need to place the model to effect things youve crossed over, the thought of just saying you flew around and came back to the same spot and alllocating MW's seems a bit WAAC

 

7 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Flamespire pheonix is allowed to do it.

Yep, that is how the phoenix and hexwraiths have functioned since 8th edition when they were first made. Perfectly legitimate as long as you have the movements to move above the enemy and come back. In many instances, this might actually take more movement than passing all the way over them.

[Nevar]

22 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

Is having units of 10 hexwraiths excessive? Kind of reasoning to make the units harder to take out. So you get the most out of your 'return d3 models' abilities. I can't comment on Reikenor as I forgot what he does ?

Grimghasts seem super good so a block of them would certainly be ace.

I used my Hexwraiths in a block of 15 riders for about a year.

This helped me spread out, get zone control, and keep me in potential charge range of a massive amount of the board.  I did this because my opponents were all very fast or could teleport, so spreading out so much denied places for them to arrive from their reserves, and kept the places they could arrive within potential charge ranges where I could pin them down even if only like 2 riders got into range.

That said, they were a pain to pile into combat with more than six or seven of them at any one time unless my opponent was dumb enough to stretch out a wide battle line to receive them.

In my shame, I also have never once used their Spectral Hunters rule because I always thought I would have to jump clear across a unit to do it, and my massive block could never land safetly out of 3" on the other side.

I would say 10 riders would be the optimal way to use them in a Death Riders battalion.  You will not likely get all 10 into comabt, but 6-7 making it in usually means they are already prepared for casualties when you do the calculations in your mind, and they are less cumbersome to move around.  Also, 10d6 looking for 5+ Mortal Wounds on Spectral Hunters is really good.

Since I own 15 riders right now, I will be buying 5 more to fill in my Death Riders Battalion.  I will also bring x2 Dreadblade Harrows in it and either Grimhailer or mKoS in a Shroud Guard Battalion to go along with it.  Being able to make our Harrows wizards with the Midnight Tome will be good for one of them to teleport to objectives as a wizard and/or bring spell support to the Death Riders.  Give the mKoS the return d3 models command trait and have him ride along and you can restore 2d3 riders a turn to your hexwraiths.

Shroud Guard is just icing on your cake because you can have Bladegeists with a 5++ and I was planning on bringing Grimhailer and/or mKoS anyways.  Use those guys to come in from the underworld where you need them most and protect the Bladegeists from shooting and spells by putting them safely in the underworld.

[The Cyclop Owl]

3 hours ago, Nevar said:

Is having units of 10 hexwraiths excessive? Kind of reasoning to make the units harder to take out. So you get the most out of your 'return d3 models' abilities. I can't comment on Reikenor as I forgot what he does ?

Grimghasts seem super good so a block of them would certainly be ace.

Reikenor is a great anti-horde profile that can also pack a punch against small heros. 

So, let's try to reverse engineer this. The 2000pts list woud look something like this

Heros
- Reikenor the Grimhailer 180
    - Spirit Drain
- Knight of Shroud on Steed 140
    - General
    - Ruler of the Spirit Host
- Guardian of Souls 140
    - Spectral Tether 
    - Lantern of Nagashizzar
- Dreadblade Harrow 100
    - Midnight Tome
    - Soul Cage

Battleline
- 30 Grimghast Reapers 360
- 10 Hexwraiths 320
- 10 Hexwraiths 320

Others
- Black Coach 280

Battalion
- Deathriders 130

Endless Spells
- Prismatic Palisade 30


Total: 2000 points
Wounds: 105


Well, I guess we have a template for the Nighthaunt elite army...

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by The Cyclop Owl
Edit: didn't realise you could have the first artefact on an other hero than the general. I removed slitter on the KOSoS and put a lantern of Nagashizzar on the Guardian of Souls.

[Mikeymajq]

That does sound like a really nice list! 

I don't really have an idea for mine yet, I just got soul wars + doubled up on the chainrasp and tye wraith unit. Need to add 2 models to them tho' ??

I will probably go Chainguard at first since it's easy to do. 

[Ove]

Hi and hello! 

The allegiance abilitie Wave of terror where you can fight on a 10+ charge, does your opponent get to fight back like in the normal combatface?